Shooting at Va Tech

**Superhuman** · 04-16-2007, 08:10 PM

this is really terrible you're right, they still don't know who the shooter is or why he did it. I can't believe he managed to take out that many people with just a .22 and a 9mm

**fLgAtOr** · 04-16-2007, 09:24 PM

You know...

A little patience goes a long way.

As angered and saddened as I am, I can't help but wonder if this could of been prevented.

Makes you think how you treat the people you meet during the day.

**dhriscerr** · 04-16-2007, 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by Superhuman

this is really terrible you're right, they still don't know who the shooter is or why he did it. I can't believe he managed to take out that many people with just a .22 and a 9mm

Yeah I don't know how the hell he did that? I shot a guy in Iraq with a 9mm 6 times and he was still comming towards us. Probably on something, but still, I'd figure assult weapons or something. Makes you take a step back and think what could happen if a few people with a little knowlege could do. Scary stuff, but like I said earlier all the concealed weapons permits in the world wouldn't have stopped it, because you can't carry on school grounds. But the Media is all over the violence on tv and in video games now, Seriously, I've been exposed to so much real violence and tv and games, im not going around like a coward shooting innocent people. Its not the media its the parenting, and lack of good moral upbringing, and apparently that guy hadn't had Intro to Ethics yet.

**Hellmaskbanned** · 04-16-2007, 10:49 PM

Originally Posted by dhriscerr

Yeah I don't know how the hell he did that? I shot a guy in Iraq with a 9mm 6 times and he was still comming towards us. Probably on something, but still, I'd figure assult weapons or something. Makes you take a step back and think what could happen if a few people with a little knowlege could do. Scary stuff, but like I said earlier all the concealed weapons permits in the world wouldn't have stopped it, because you can't carry on school grounds. But the Media is all over the violence on tv and in video games now, Seriously, I've been exposed to so much real violence and tv and games, im not going around like a coward shooting innocent people. Its not the media its the parenting, and lack of good moral upbringing, and apparently that guy hadn't had Intro to Ethics yet.

True bruda.

Thats crazy about the 6 shots to take him down with the 9. He must have been drugged up for the pain not to collapse him itself.

9mm goes completely through you right? So would one 45acp shot of knocked him off his feet do to the bigger surface area wound?

**dhriscerr** · 04-16-2007, 10:54 PM

It all ***ends on where it hits you, but service pistols all get ball rounds, so its harder to take someone down than if you were using hollow points. But I don't think he would have kept comming after 1 maybe 2 shots of a .45

**mcpeepants** · 04-16-2007, 11:26 PM

Originally Posted by dhriscerr

Yeah I don't know how the hell he did that? I shot a guy in Iraq with a 9mm 6 times and he was still comming towards us. Probably on something, but still, I'd figure assult weapons or something. Makes you take a step back and think what could happen if a few people with a little knowlege could do. Scary stuff, but like I said earlier all the concealed weapons permits in the world wouldn't have stopped it, because you can't carry on school grounds. But the Media is all over the violence on tv and in video games now, Seriously, I've been exposed to so much real violence and tv and games, im not going around like a coward shooting innocent people. Its not the media its the parenting, and lack of good moral upbringing, and apparently that guy hadn't had Intro to Ethics yet.

all day on the news and I kept seeing pundits trying to blame tv, movies, and video games for the shooting instead of the guy who shot all the people.

**RamyGras** · 04-17-2007, 01:18 AM

It was definitely a planned event. He was fully prepared with plenty of ammo. He had time to chain lock the doors to the building, and he seemed to have precisely picked the room he would execute his plan.

I don't know what this guy's beef was, but man do I wish he would have survived his suicide attempt. This terrorist deserved much worst than he got.

**dhriscerr** · 04-17-2007, 07:49 AM

Yeah the reason the number was so high, was becuase he walked into a 2nd story room, and shot 20 out of the 24 people in it, then went next door and started shooting the next class over, but some of the kids had already started jumping out of windows. All they keep doing is blaming gun control, violence on tv, and lack of security at colleges. Even with stricter gun control, less violence on tv, and armed security guards on college, Some people are just Animals, and you cant change that. Even with 20 armed security guards, whats the chance that one of them will be in the room??? Sorry to say but you can lessen the likely hood of something like this happening but you can't stop someone motivated enough to kill someone, if they want it done that bad, they will make it happen. Especially when they plan on taking there own life in the process, becuase then they have nothing to live for.

**1819** · 04-17-2007, 08:20 AM

Originally Posted by dhriscerr

Yeah the reason the number was so high, was becuase he walked into a 2nd story room, and shot 20 out of the 24 people in it, then went next door and started shooting the next class over, but some of the kids had already started jumping out of windows. All they keep doing is blaming gun control, violence on tv, and lack of security at colleges. Even with stricter gun control, less violence on tv, and armed security guards on college, Some people are just Animals, and you cant change that. Even with 20 armed security guards, whats the chance that one of them will be in the room??? Sorry to say but you can lessen the likely hood of something like this happening but you can't stop someone motivated enough to kill someone, if they want it done that bad, they will make it happen. Especially when they plan on taking there own life in the process, becuase then they have nothing to live for.

very wise words. i am sick of the gun control rant already in full swing this morning. if there were no guns in the world this moron would have found a way. poison, fire, a friggin golf club. he was determined to kill. the "point the finger society" we live in will not accept that as an answer.

**singern** · 04-17-2007, 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by 1819

very wise words. i am sick of the gun control rant already in full swing this morning. if there were no guns in the world this moron would have found a way. poison, fire, a friggin golf club. he was determined to kill. the "point the finger society" we live in will not accept that as an answer.

I dont think its quite that simple.
Its much easyer for a coward to point and shoot, VS approaching one on one and killing with a knife or other weapon. Other students would have jumped him, and if he only had a knife I doubt very much he would have successfully killed himself.
There are many logical and correct arguments on both sides of the gun control debate, dont dismiss them so easily.

And what bothers me is how the hell an exchange student from South Korea is able to purchase a gun. He was found with a receipt from March of 2007. We dont have enough home grown wackos waving guns, now we import them.

**1819** · 04-17-2007, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by singern

I dont think its quite that simple.
Its much easyer for a coward to point and shoot, VS approaching one on one and killing with a knife or other weapon. Other students would have jumped him, and if he only had a knife I doubt very much he would have successfully killed himself.
There are many logical and correct arguments on both sides of the gun control debate, dont dismiss them so easily.

you too are correct to a degree. yes it is easier for someone to snap and shoot 20 people. that was not the case here. i think most will agree this was very well planned. i do not dismiss arguments for gun control. the problem is they are usually misguided. i am all for responsible gun ownership although i really dont know if that can exsist. common sense tells us not to give guys getting out of prison their gun card with cab fare. i think if the gun control people would accept the fact that you cannot stop people from killing no matter what then some reasonable measures can be taken. it is not realistic to take guns off the street. it is not realistic to keep them out of the hands of people who want to kill. personally i do not have an answer. i think we go about it all wrong. tougher background check? please. if a felon wants a gun he just wont purchase it legally. so now because you may have a record, totally unrelated to violence, you cant protect yourself legally? reminds me of the poor guy who hasnt had a ticket in 30 years but pays higher car insurance because he has poor credit. insane. learn how to use a gun responsibly from an early age and take your chances. i learned how to use a baseball bat when i was 4 and know that it is not intended for hittting people in the head. the fact is though some people still choose to do this. cant shut down the louisville slugger plant. what's a mother to do?

**singern** · 04-17-2007, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by 1819

you too are correct to a degree. yes it is easier for someone to snap and shoot 20 people. that was not the case here. i think most will agree this was very well planned. i do not dismiss arguments for gun control. the problem is they are usually misguided. i am all for responsible gun ownership although i really dont know if that can exsist. common sense tells us not to give guys getting out of prison their gun card with cab fare. i think if the gun control people would accept the fact that you cannot stop people from killing no matter what then some reasonable measures can be taken. it is not realistic to take guns off the street. it is not realistic to keep them out of the hands of people who want to kill. personally i do not have an answer. i think we go about it all wrong. tougher background check? please. if a felon wants a gun he just wont purchase it legally. so now because you may have a record, totally unrelated to violence, you cant protect yourself legally? reminds me of the poor guy who hasnt had a ticket in 30 years but pays higher car insurance because he has poor credit. insane. learn how to use a gun responsibly from an early age and take your chances. i learned how to use a baseball bat when i was 4 and know that it is not intended for hittting people in the head. the fact is though some people still choose to do this. cant shut down the louisville slugger plant. what's a mother to do?

Absolutely, there are many good arguments on both sides of this issue. But lets not hijack this thread.

**Carlos_E** · 04-17-2007, 09:03 AM

Originally Posted by singern

I dont think its quite that simple.
Its much easyer for a coward to point and shoot, VS approaching one on one and killing with a knife or other weapon. Other students would have jumped him, and if he only had a knife I doubt very much he would have successfully killed himself.
There are many logical and correct arguments on both sides of the gun control debate, dont dismiss them so easily.

And what bothers me is how the hell an exchange student from South Korea is able to purchase a gun. He was found with a receipt from March of 2007. We dont have enough home grown wackos waving guns, now we import them.

Can resident aliens with a green card not buy a weapon? Is that against the law? Serious question.

**ironpumpindoc** · 04-17-2007, 09:08 AM

Very sad day indeed, not sure about resident aliens and guns Carlos. Maybe some of the police officers on here could answer that question.

**Snrf** · 04-17-2007, 09:09 AM

I purchased a bunch of guns while on Holiday in the US.

you just find a gun trader magazine and purchase privately.

oh and with a green card you can purchase anything from a gunstore, I used to have a nice collection while I was resident.

**dhriscerr** · 04-17-2007, 09:23 AM

Im all for stricter gun control, but to say that we need to take them off the streets, or to make them illegal to have is rediculous. And even with stricter gun laws bad guys will still get them, ask some of the guys in the UK and Australia, they can't have guns, but I bet your left nut the bad guys somehow still get them, so why unarm law abiding citizens. Were getting away from what founded this country guns, and religion, and everyone is easy to push them out. People all over the world carried weapons for thousands of years, if you didn't have a gun in the 1800's you were crazy to go out, the fact of the matter is society has changed, and peoples ethics has changed. Maybe less violence on TV and video games will help, but lets face it, you can't stop it and they already have a parental rating in place, so besides parents, and respected family members and friends, children have no hope. If only you had to take some test to make sure you were a suitable parent before you had kids, that might help. Truthfully I don't know if there is a right answer? You say if he would have had a knife he wouldnt have done the damage he did? How do you then explane how a few box cutters were able to bring down the airplanes that hit the world trade center and the pentagon? Dont be to quick to judge the power of someones plan, and the power fear has on people.

**Mogamedogz** · 04-17-2007, 09:29 AM

There are places in Ohio (Gun conventions) where yu can walk right up and buy an automatic weapon, using ONLY a regular drivers license or ID card. So long as you are over 18 years old.

I know because I have been to one, and watch a kid I know purchase an AK-47.

Very easy.

**Carlos_E** · 04-17-2007, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by Mogamedogz

There are places in Ohio (Gun conventions) where yu can walk right up and buy an automatic weapon, using ONLY a regular drivers license or ID card. So long as you are over 18 years old.

I know because I have been to one, and watch a kid I know purchase an AK-47.

Very easy.

Why the hell does a kid need a AK-47? Hunting? I doubt it.

**singern** · 04-17-2007, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by Carlos_E

Why the hell does a kid need a AK-47? Hunting? I doubt it.

I guess thats one good argument for gun control....

**BITTAPART2** · 04-17-2007, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by Doc.Sust

takes zero guts to go shoot random people because your an angry troubled bastard. punk,

unfortuantaly I gotta disagree doc. It takes balls to go through with something like that. like the 911 hijackers, everyone said they were cowards but c'mon that took balls to hijack a plane and fly it into a building. its all just horrible that it happens and i will never understand how sick someone can be to take ones life from them especially unprovoked like this.

**Carlos_E** · 04-17-2007, 10:20 AM

It does not take balls. It takes a lack of respect for human life. People should have to take a thorough psych screening before allowing them to buy a gun. That would cut down on the crazies getting a hold of one.

**Logan13** · 04-17-2007, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by Carlos_E

It does not take balls. It takes a lack of respect for human life. People should have to take a thorough psych screening before allowing them to buy a gun. That would cut down on the crazies getting a hold of one.

Exactly! Everyone should not be afforded the right to own guns.

**nalbano34** · 04-17-2007, 10:34 AM

Could not agree more!!!!!!

**1819** · 04-17-2007, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Carlos_E

It does not take balls. It takes lack of respect for human life. People should have to take a thorough psych screening before allowing them to buy a gun. That would cut down on the crazies getting a hold of one.

true but the fact remains that people who want them will get them. hell, it's as easy as gettin some rec drugs. if i needed a gun illegally it is easier for me to get a handgun than it is to find a reliable source for gear!! when i'm down the boxing gym in newark, guns are everywhere. same in miami. cant tell ya how many guys have them in their gymbags. no one hiding the fact that they are for sale either. no too long ago a guy came in hustlin stuff. he had the usual stash of dope, a cordless drill, a gun, and a pipewrench that was taller than i was. (looked like it came from a shipyard) lol. i see dudes like that all the time. dont even have to seek them out. a criminal has no problem getting what he needs.

**Mogamedogz** · 04-17-2007, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by Carlos_E

Why the hell does a kid need a AK-47? Hunting? I doubt it.

He just thought it was cool. (He was in police academy at the time though). But still... He didnt have a gun permit (on him), or anything like that. He just bought it. Paid cash, wraped it up, and took it home.

**RamyGras** · 04-17-2007, 12:23 PM

How do you choose who gets to purchase a gun or not? I mean this prick had a clean record and seemed to be an educated guy. I'm all about gun control, but it seems like it would be impossible to pick and choose who gets to buy one. Whether it be disgruntled Americans walking our streets or terrorists from abroad, these animals will find the resources necessary if they feel compelled to take action. Let's not forget, much more people get killed every day in this country. EVERY DAY. This is not a new problem. They kill in all colors and they kill in all social statuses. Gun control is not really an option.

**Logan13** · 04-17-2007, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by RamyGras

How do you choose who gets to purchase a gun or not? I mean this prick had a clean record and seemed to be an educated guy. I'm all about gun control, but it seems like it would be impossible to pick and choose who gets to buy one. Whether it be disgruntled Americans walking our streets or terrorists from abroad, these animals will find the resources necessary if they feel compelled to take action. Let's not forget, much more people get killed every day in this country. EVERY DAY. This is not a new problem. They kill in all colors and they kill in all social statuses. Gun control is not really an option.

Unfortunately it is easier to say that not everyone should have guns than it would be to enforce it. Even if guns were outlawed, which I would be against, people would still get them. Crack is illegal and it still manages to find a consumer base.

**singern** · 04-17-2007, 02:28 PM

Until people realise that the constitution and bill of rights written some 230 years ago, and as such some of the articles and laws on which we define ourselves no longer apply to society today.

Amendment II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

The ownership, use, and application of a musket cannot be compared to that of an automatic weapon, and certainly has nothing to do with Joe America walking through the mall with a 45 under his shirt. But the NRA lives and breaths by reciting the 2nd amendment every 30 minutes.

**RamyGras** · 04-17-2007, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by Logan13

Unfortunately it is easier to say that not everyone should have guns than it would be to enforce it. Even if guns were outlawed, which I would be against, people would still get them. Crack is illegal and it still manages to find a consumer base.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Obviously this is for the sake of discussion, as guns being outlawed is not really a possibility, and I wouldn't care one way or another about it. Bottom line, if you want a gun, you can get a gun. My roommate and another friend of mine went to a gun show not too long ago. My roommate, a member of the U.S. Armed Forces with no criminal record, easily was able to buy one. The other guy, one with a bit more extensive of a record, was denied. He has another option, if he so inclines, and that's to buy one from a dealer. Either way, there are plenty of options. I would imagine, and I don't know this as a fact, that most murders commited are from guns purchased underground.

**Bojangles69** · 04-17-2007, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by Carlos_E

It does not take balls. It takes a lack of respect for human life. People should have to take a thorough psych screening before allowing them to buy a gun. That would cut down on the crazies getting a hold of one.

I agree 1000%

**singern** · 04-18-2007, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by RamyGras

I would imagine, and I don't know this as a fact, that most murders commited are from guns purchased underground.

My guess would be that gang member and drug dealers do get there weapons illegally, but domestic and premeditated crimes are done with legally obtained weapons.

**singern** · 04-18-2007, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by Carlos_E

It does not take balls. It takes a lack of respect for human life. People should have to take a thorough psych screening before allowing them to buy a gun. That would cut down on the crazies getting a hold of one.

I must disagree, I am a firm believer that any person of normal temperament would be more likely to shoot someone while in the heat of rage then stab or beat them to death.

**Bojangles69** · 04-18-2007, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by singern

I must disagree, I am a firm believer that any person of normal temperament would be more likely to shoot someone while in the heat of rage then stab or beat them to death.

How the hell is this relevant?

Carlos didnt say shit about whether someones more likely to stab or shoot someone and you totally veered off into a topic that had nothing to do with what he said. And *I BELIEVE* it doesnt matter. In the heat of rage ANYTHINGS a weapon, a banana, a lamp, a crow bar.. ANYTHING.

So disagree all you want with somethin that wasnt even said to begin lol.. lmfao!!

**singern** · 04-19-2007, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by Bojangles69

How the hell is this relevant?

Carlos didnt say shit about whether someones more likely to stab or shoot someone and you totally veered off into a topic that had nothing to do with what he said. And *I BELIEVE* it doesnt matter. In the heat of rage ANYTHINGS a weapon, a banana, a lamp, a crow bar.. ANYTHING.

So disagree all you want with somethin that wasnt even said to begin lol.. lmfao!!

Lighten up there Sparky.
With just a small amount of thought you would have recognized I was disagreeing with Carlos thoughts that " People should have to take a thorough psych screening before allowing them to buy a gun".Thankfully my opinions are no less valid then any other. It is my honest believe that most people who shoot in a moment of rage would not have the balls or the ability to kill or even attack if not for a gun. Guns allow people to disconnect and be remote from the act, WHile a knife or "fruit" requires one on one physical contact.

And if I ever see you coming at me with a banana be sure I will stand my ground.

**dhriscerr** · 04-19-2007, 09:30 AM

Singern are you an anti-gun person? No doubt guns making killing easier, but guns have also stopped alot of crimes too. Anyway besides all that, Guns aren't the issue we should be fighting about, how about the issue that there are some crazy ass people in this world. Timothy Mcveigh didn't have a gun, the 9/11 terrorist didnt have a gun, jeffrey dommer didn't use a gun. BTK killer didn't use a gun. Guns aren't to blame PEOPLE and SOCIETY ARE!!! You are not going to stop someone that wants to kill! Period, besides taking there life, if someone is that set on killing, they will kill. Maybe he wouldn't have killed 32 people all at once. Maybe he would have gone around and random stalked women and stabbed them 1 at a time, maybe he would have looked on the internet and learned how to make a bomb and put it in the cafateria, Sky's the limit for someone that is duranged. You can buy a 30" Machette at Wal-mart in the hunting isle for $7 bucks. Dude's going to kill no matter what.

**dhriscerr** · 04-19-2007, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by singern

My guess would be that gang member and drug dealers do get there weapons illegally, but domestic and premeditated crimes are done with legally obtained weapons.

Whats your answer then? Ban guns? Not going to stop anything! Dudes will just stab there wives, or beat them to death with a hammer or strangle them. I think your vision is clouded a bit, you give people to much credit. Guns dont kill people, people kill people. I don't know if your religious and I know religion isn't talked about on the board, but Kane and Able, Murders happened long before guns becuase people are animals. Sadly enough, nothing will stop this kind of thing from happening.

**singern** · 04-19-2007, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by dhriscerr

Singern are you an anti-gun person? No doubt guns making killing easier, but guns have also stopped alot of crimes too. Anyway besides all that, Guns aren't the issue we should be fighting about, how about the issue that there are some crazy ass people in this world. Timothy Mcveigh didn't have a gun, the 9/11 terrorist didnt have a gun, jeffrey dommer didn't use a gun. BTK killer didn't use a gun. Guns aren't to blame PEOPLE and SOCIETY ARE!!! You are not going to stop someone that wants to kill! Period, besides taking there life, if someone is that set on killing, they will kill. Maybe he wouldn't have killed 32 people all at once. Maybe he would have gone around and random stalked women and stabbed them 1 at a time, maybe he would have looked on the internet and learned how to make a bomb and put it in the cafateria, Sky's the limit for someone that is duranged. You can buy a 30" Machette at Wal-mart in the hunting isle for $7 bucks. Dude's going to kill no matter what.

I dont pretend to have any answers, I only debate the topic. Im not entirely anti gun, As I have said there are pros and cons to the Gun control debate, all of wich are valid.
I agree with your statement for the most part, yes people get stabbed and hurt by a variety of ways, but my point was that people who would normally not have what it takes to kill, are emboldened by the simplicity of "point and shoot".

I myself do not own a gun, because I have no need for it, I buy my beef at the grocery store, and to tell you the truth the thought of people walking around the mall where my kids hang out scares me.

But I do respect the need for some people to hunt, or shoot for recreation if they so desire.

**Mike Dura** · 04-19-2007, 10:06 AM

Let's transcend "common sense" and really get to the heart of the matter. This topic is well studied and I'm familiar with the research. In a cost versus benefit analysis of the presence or absence of a guns the absense of guns wins the day (thereby supporting anti-gun legislation). In addition to the fact that guns kill, the presence of guns increases agression because guns are a cue for violence. For example, in the Milgram study where subjects where instructed by an authority figure to "shock" a confederate (a person who seems like a research participant but they are actually a part of the research manipulation), the presence of guns was associated with confederates getting shocked for a longer period of time (by definition, increased aggression).

Explanation? Guns are a symbol of (and a cue for) violence and the very presence of a gun can contribute towards creating a violent act. Similarly, the color black is a symbol for "bad" and it's noted that hockey teams with black uniforms have greater penalty minutes. Point being, the presence of negative symbols (gun, black color) can contribe toward violent behavior. We won't outlaw the color black but you can't kill a person with the color black. Guns kill. The point of me bringing up the color black is to make a general point towards subtle cues that influence behavior. Now consider the over-exposure to violent media today (e.g., video games, movies). Add to that a personality type or state of mind that makes one vulnerable to violence and we've got problems.

In conclusion, overall, we're better not having the right to bear arms. The original law is outmoded anyway. The right to bear arms was based on our founding fathers wisdom that our goverment can become currupt and if they do, citezens should be able to engage them. If so, we should be up in arms right now. The Bush administration does not respect the system of checks and balances and the executive branch has way too much power. Yes, our system has broken down and this is the begining of the end for us. To be sure, Bush et al. are the enemies of democracy.

Originally Posted by dhriscerr

Singern are you an anti-gun person? No doubt guns making killing easier, but guns have also stopped alot of crimes too. Anyway besides all that, Guns aren't the issue we should be fighting about, how about the issue that there are some crazy ass people in this world. Timothy Mcveigh didn't have a gun, the 9/11 terrorist didnt have a gun, jeffrey dommer didn't use a gun. BTK killer didn't use a gun. Guns aren't to blame PEOPLE and SOCIETY ARE!!! You are not going to stop someone that wants to kill! Period, besides taking there life, if someone is that set on killing, they will kill. Maybe he wouldn't have killed 32 people all at once. Maybe he would have gone around and random stalked women and stabbed them 1 at a time, maybe he would have looked on the internet and learned how to make a bomb and put it in the cafateria, Sky's the limit for someone that is duranged. You can buy a 30" Machette at Wal-mart in the hunting isle for $7 bucks. Dude's going to kill no matter what.

**dhriscerr** · 04-19-2007, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by singern

I dont pretend to have any answers, I only debate the topic. Im not entirely anti gun, As I have said there are pros and cons to the Gun control debate, all of wich are valid.
I agree with your statement for the most part, yes people get stabbed and hurt by a variety of ways, but my point was that people who would normally not have what it takes to kill, are emboldened by the simplicity of "point and shoot".

I myself do not own a gun, because I have no need for it, I buy my beef at the grocery store, and to tell you the truth the thought of people walking around the mall where my kids hang out scares me.

But I do respect the need for some people to hunt, or shoot for recreation if they so desire.

Fair enough, Im an avid hunter, but I also have a 9mm for protection in my house and a Conceal weapons permit, I just keep it in my car, dont carry it on me. But I think store owners and people like Jewlery salesmen, and professions like that have a right to protect themselves. There were 10 women in my concealed weapons class, I think its great that they can walk to there cars at night, and live a life without being scared of being attacked, its there right as a human being, so i guess if a gun gives them that right, then who am I to tell them they arent afforded that right. I agree that guns are an easier way to kill, and SOME of the killings may not have happened without a gun. I just get agitated when people blame everything on something else instead of the person, Easy to point a finger at T.V. Violence, easy to point a finger at Video games, or music, or guns. Why arent any fingers being pointed at the parents??? Obviously something somewhere went wrong in the 23 years this person was raised, to give him the thought that it was ok to kill people. I know what kind of power a gun has, I know what things a baseball bat can do. I've seen what bombs can do. But somewhere along the lines, I was raised right, and know that I dont deserve to kill anyone for no reason. I was never told by my parents I couldnt watcha certain movie or play a video game becuase it had to much violence, I had my first gun at 12 years old. We use to go fishing and catch fish and torture them with firecrackers and stuff when I was younger, most people would look at that and think I was demented, and it would be easy to point to that as a sign of me being psycho, but it was just part of growing up in rural Iowa with all the farm kids. Even with all of that, I managed to turn out right and respect peoples lives. Millions of people own guns, listen to rap, play grand theft auto, and watch movies like the ***arted, heat, and die hard. There not going on a rampage killing tons of innocent people. Gangsters dont become gangsters because they watch rap movies, they become gangsters because they grow up in those kinds of places and its the life they know. Its how they are raised.

**dhriscerr** · 04-19-2007, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by Mike Dura

Let's transcend "common sense" and really get to the heart of the matter. This topic is well studied and I'm familiar with the research. In a cost versus benefit analysis of the presence or absence of a guns the absense of guns wins the day (thereby supporting anti-gun legislation). Research shows that the presence of guns increases agression. For example, in the Milgram study where subjects where instructed by an authority figure to "shock" a confederate (a person who seems like a research participant but they are actually a part of the research manipulation), the presence of guns was associated with confederates getting shocked for a longer period of time (by definition, increased aggression).
Explanation? Guns are a symbol of violence and there very presence can contribute towards creating a violent act. Along these lines, the color black is a symbol for "bad" and it's noted that hockey teams with black uniforms have greater penalty minutes. Point being, the presence of negative symbols (gun, black color) can contribe toward violent behavior. We won't outlaw the color black but you can't kill a person with the color black. Guns kill. The point of me bringing up the color black is to make a general point towards subtle cues that influence behavior. Now consider the over-exposure to violent media today (e.g., video games, movies).

In conclusion, overall, we're better not having the right to bear arms. The original law is outmoded anyway. The right to bear arms was based on our founding fathers wisdom that our goverment can become currupt and if they do, citezens should be able to engage them. If so, we should be up in arms right now. The Bush administration does not respect the system of checks and balances and the executive branch has way too much power. Yes, our system has broken down and this is the begining of the end for us. To be sure, Bush et al. are the enemies of democracy.

Easy to say things like that, and anyone can do research and publish it how they want to. Did you know that during months that have above average sales of Ice cream, more children drowned in the United states than any other month??? Does that mean we outlaw ice cream to make our children safer?? Im not going to debate the fact that without guns society would have less killings, but the fact of the matter is, there are Millions upon Millions of guns in circulation, and millions more underground. To think that you were going to outlaw them is going to spread the violence alot further. You will have Ruby Ridge 1,000 fold. I hope and pray that I never have to use my gun, but why should I not be afford the right to protect myself to someone that does have a gun??? Do you watch GLEN BECK??? He said it best when he said, It doesn't matter if they crack down on guns, the school was a gun free zone, all the other kids died because they didn't have guns because they were following the law. I hope you never face someone breaking into your house with a gun, becuase I can garuntee unless you have the means of fighting back, the cops wont get there in time.