"NRA: Don't Ban Gun Sales to Suspects"

**Prada** · 05-05-2007, 01:38 PM

http://www.rawstory.com/showarticle....D8OTPRS00.html

By SAM HANANEL

WASHINGTON (AP) - The National R***e Association is urging the Bush administration to withdraw its support of a bill that would prohibit suspected terrorists from buying firearms.

Backed by the Justice ***artment, the measure would give the attorney general the discretion to block gun sales, licenses or permits to terror suspects.

In a letter this week to Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, NRA executive director Chris Cox said the bill, offered last week by Sen. Frank Lautenberg, D-N.J., "would allow arbitrary denial of Second Amendment rights based on mere 'suspicions' of a terrorist threat."

"As many of our friends in law enforcement have rightly pointed out, the word 'suspect' has no legal meaning, particularly when it comes to denying constitutional liberties," Cox wrote.

In a letter supporting the measure, Acting Assistant Attorney General Richard Hertling said the bill would not automatically prevent a gun sale to a suspected terrorist. In some cases, federal agents may want to let a sale go forward to avoid compromising an ongoing investigation.

Hertling also notes there is a process to challenge denial of a sale.

Current law requires gun dealers to conduct a criminal background check and deny sales if a gun purchaser falls under a specified prohibition, including a felony conviction, domestic abuse conviction or illegal immigration. There is no legal basis to deny a sale if a purchaser is on a terror watch list.

"When I tell people that you can be on a terrorist watch list and still be allowed to buy as many guns as you want, they are shocked," said Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence, which supports Lautenberg's bill.

In the wake of the Virginia Tech shootings, lawmakers are considering a number of measures to strengthen gun sale laws. The NRA, which usually opposes increased restrictions on firearms, is taking different positions ***ending on the proposal.

"Right now law enforcement carefully monitors all firearms sales to those on the terror watch list," said NRA spokesman Andrew Arulanandam. "Injecting the attorney general into the process just politicizes it."

A 2005 study by the Government Accountability Office found that 35 of 44 firearm purchase attempts over a five-month period made by known or suspected terrorists were approved by the federal law enforcement officials.

**singern** · 05-06-2007, 11:51 AM

The very thought of allowing the purchase of weapons to terror suspects, whether confirmed or not shouldnt even be a matter of discussion.
I read this in the paper yesterday, and still cannot believe what I read. How can an organization which is fighting tooth and claw for its very survival, be so self destructive and ignorant as to make such a demand.

Im on the fence on the gun control issue, but crap like this sends me in the other direction.

**BgMc31** · 05-06-2007, 12:36 PM

This is taking constitutional amendments to the extreme. The NRA is suppose to be protecting the right of Americans to protect themselves. Why support the arming of those who would do harm? Makes no sense to me!

**mcpeepants** · 05-06-2007, 12:43 PM

being a suspect doesn't make a person guilty of a crime. what happened to innocent until proven guilty.

**Primalinstinct** · 05-06-2007, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by mcpeepants

being a suspect doesn't make a person guilty of a crime. what happened to innocent until proven guilty.

^^ What he said

What happens IF you end up on a list like the one mentioned by mistake AND you are not guilty of a thing? What are you going to do IF it is a list developed by an organization you very well may need to one day defend yourself against? You may shake your head and scoff at this scenario but it needs to be considered FOR THE LONG HAUL. I am flabbergasted how quick people are willing to throw rights away in the Twenty-First century. I blame it on the 'dummying up of America' that is strategically taking place. Here in the city of Detroit they did a study and found 2 out of 10 students finished high school over a four year period. Fifty-Two schools will be closed by the end of 2008 within the city limits. Dummies.

You do not have much left in your back pocket, America. Don't just throw it away. It is exactly what they want you do. Government and corporations will be more than happy to tell YOU what to do. Not ME. I'll handle it right here in my house, within my community.

I say freedom for me and the ones who come after me.

**BgMc31** · 05-06-2007, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by mcpeepants

being a suspect doesn't make a person guilty of a crime. what happened to innocent until proven guilty.

You have a good point mcpee. But it's the what if's that bother me. What if we allowed someone who was on the terror lists to but a couple AR-15's, MP5s, and AK-47s and the guy shoots up a mall. Then its found out that the guy was on a terror lists all along and still able to purchase guns. Can you imagine the public outcry?

**Logan13** · 05-06-2007, 08:17 PM

Originally Posted by Prada

http://www.rawstory.com/showarticle....D8OTPRS00.html

By SAM HANANEL

WASHINGTON (AP) - The National R***e Association is urging the Bush administration to withdraw its support of a bill that would prohibit suspected terrorists from buying firearms.

Backed by the Justice ***artment, the measure would give the attorney general the discretion to block gun sales, licenses or permits to terror suspects.

In a letter this week to Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, NRA executive director Chris Cox said the bill, offered last week by Sen. Frank Lautenberg, D-N.J., "would allow arbitrary denial of Second Amendment rights based on mere 'suspicions' of a terrorist threat."

"As many of our friends in law enforcement have rightly pointed out, the word 'suspect' has no legal meaning, particularly when it comes to denying constitutional liberties," Cox wrote.

In a letter supporting the measure, Acting Assistant Attorney General Richard Hertling said the bill would not automatically prevent a gun sale to a suspected terrorist. In some cases, federal agents may want to let a sale go forward to avoid compromising an ongoing investigation.

Hertling also notes there is a process to challenge denial of a sale.

Current law requires gun dealers to conduct a criminal background check and deny sales if a gun purchaser falls under a specified prohibition, including a felony conviction, domestic abuse conviction or illegal immigration. There is no legal basis to deny a sale if a purchaser is on a terror watch list.

"When I tell people that you can be on a terrorist watch list and still be allowed to buy as many guns as you want, they are shocked," said Paul Helmke, president of the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence, which supports Lautenberg's bill.

In the wake of the Virginia Tech shootings, lawmakers are considering a number of measures to strengthen gun sale laws. The NRA, which usually opposes increased restrictions on firearms, is taking different positions ***ending on the proposal.

"Right now law enforcement carefully monitors all firearms sales to those on the terror watch list," said NRA spokesman Andrew Arulanandam. "Injecting the attorney general into the process just politicizes it."

A 2005 study by the Government Accountability Office found that 35 of 44 firearm purchase attempts over a five-month period made by known or suspected terrorists were approved by the federal law enforcement officials.

The NRA is moving so far to the Right on this that they look Far-Left..........

**Prada** · 05-06-2007, 10:36 PM

The fact of the matter is that if there is a terror suspect, he/she should not be granted access to the country all together. Suspected terrorists, and there should be darn good evidence, shouldnt be in the country let alone purchasing weapons. That is plain suicidal if terrorists behind the guise of "landed immigrants" can just purchase weapons and commit their deeds. A Terrorist if he cant buy a gun legally he will find another method to inflict wound.

**Logan13** · 05-07-2007, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by Prada

The fact of the matter is that if there is a terror suspect, he/she should not be granted access to the country all together. Suspected terrorists, and there should be darn good evidence, shouldnt be in the country let alone purchasing weapons. That is plain suicidal if terrorists behind the guise of "landed immigrants" can just purchase weapons and commit their deeds. A Terrorist if he cant buy a gun legally he will find another method to inflict wound.

But then the left will scream that you do not have sufficient evidence to be calling any one person a "terror suspect". This arguement will than become one of "racism"..........

**Prada** · 05-07-2007, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by Logan13

But then the left will scream that you do not have sufficient evidence to be calling any one person a "terror suspect". This arguement will than become one of "racism"..........

Well you know that there is opposition to anything that is passed or suggested.
Thats why they are not in power right now. Nonetheless a terrorist is a terrorist not a "muslim terrorist". Again upon sufficient/conclusive evidence.

**BgMc31** · 05-07-2007, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by Logan13

But then the left will scream that you do not have sufficient evidence to be calling any one person a "terror suspect". This arguement will than become one of "racism"..........

I disagree, racism will only be yelled if there is a focus on one demographic. LIke Prada says a terrorist is a terrorist and as long as we recognize that the threat from anti-abortionist christian fundamentalists, white supremacists groups are also terrorist just like fanatical muslims then and only then will we be able to point out these 'terror' suspects without much public outcry.

**singern** · 05-07-2007, 01:34 PM

It makes no difference what nationality, ideology, or religion the suspect is. As long as he/she is a risk there should be no chance in hell of obtaining a weapon.

Security first,
warm and fuzzy for the suspect later.

**Logan13** · 05-07-2007, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by BgMc31

I disagree, racism will only be yelled if there is a focus on one demographic. LIke Prada says a terrorist is a terrorist and as long as we recognize that the threat from anti-abortionist christian fundamentalists, white supremacists groups are also terrorist just like fanatical muslims then and only then will we be able to point out these 'terror' suspects without much public outcry.

True in theory, but let's not stick our heads in the sand in the name of political correctness...............