If we leave Iraq, do we lose for good?

[Logan13]

If we leave Iraq, do we lose for good?
salon.com
"To those of you against the war in Iraq, here is what you do not understand: Iraq is but one battle in the 60-plus-year ideological struggle we call "the war on terror." Do you really want to leave Iraq and wait for the enemy and ideology that dropped the World Trade Center to grow into a much stronger, deadlier and efficient killing force? Did you not understand or believe President Bush in his address to the nation on Sept. 20, 2001, when he said:

"Our war on terror begins with al Qaeda, but does not end there ... This war will not be like other wars. Americans should not expect one battle, but a lengthy campaign, unlike any other we have ever seen ... Every nation, in every region, now has a decision to make. Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists. From this day forward, any nation that continues to harbor or support terrorism will be regarded by the United States as a hostile regime ... But the only way to defeat terrorism as a threat to our way of life is to stop it, eliminate it, and destroy it where it grows ... I ask for your ... patience in what will be a long struggle."

I consider myself an independent conservative who still thinks Bush & Cheney are much better than the last administration, if for no other reason than they are not adulterers and liars, and I believe character counts. Bush in my opinion is very honest, loyal, wise and walks with much integrity. He confounds his critics by doing what he says and saying what he does without wavering.

Bush did not steal the 2000 election! He won every time the votes were counted. History will show that the opposition tried to steal that election but failed. He did not lie about WMD in Iraq! His administration inherited an intelligence organization that made him believe WMD were being stockpiled in Iraq, along with a stated policy of regime change.

Bush is mature, acts responsibly and governs by doing what is right, living by the creed "the buck stops here." The previous administration governed by polls and acted like "the buck never got here." After 9/11, and with current knowledge of the day, had Bush not invaded Iraq, I believe he would have been acting as irresponsibly as the previous president.

I do not believe foreign policy under Bush has created more terrorists. On the contrary, it has revealed them.

I also think that a quick retreat from the Middle East would be the same as circling our wagons while waiting for 9/11-inspired attacks to continue here with greater and greater lethality by an enemy who will use WMD as soon as possible. Just try to imagine 9/11 with nukes.

If we choose defeat by giving up and retreating now, even if we are able to avoid attacks at home, we will be back in the Middle East within 10 years facing a much stronger and emboldened enemy with WMD at a cost to the United States in lives and resources hundreds of times higher than at present levels. Victory in the Middle East will be much less costly in a slow deliberate struggle over a long run and should be treated with the same patience that has kept us in Japan, Germany and Korea for more than 40 years."

[***xxx***]

a retreat would be bad, but I am very certain that the bush area has created more terrorists than ther opposite.

and the argument about korea/germany/japan: totally different story! u can t compare religious fanatics with the ppl in those country after the war. the muslim fantics believe that they will enter heaven and get their 70 virgins if they get killed fighting against the us/west. they don t care if they live or die.

[eliteforce]

Stale right wing facist-rhetoric, the notion that this huge quagmire in Iraq-that costs $2,000,000,000 a week and 100's coalition deaths everymonth with US service members getting killed everyday-with no end in sight-is somehow "not that big of deal" because it's "only 1 battle"..and everyone is just supposed to ignore it and pretend that it's not there and stick with it year after year, even as it bankrupts the nation.

The US will not stay in Iraq for 60 years, but even if it did, thats just more proof that the Iraq war can never be won, that the enemy can continue guerrilla warfare forever.

And then there's this annoying condecending and manipulative neo-con dogma that exploits 9/11-saying "remember how you felt that day" and then suggesting that America made a pact that day to persue this failed foreign policy for 60 years and there's no going back - the decision has been made

finally there's this ignorant simplistic approach to terrorism like it this big blob that you can attack-you just need to find "Islamic terrorists" somewhere and blindly throw all your money and military strength at it until it dies..with complete disreguard to the countries and people this grouse policy affects and complete denial that bombing and attacking these arab and moslem nations creates terrorists itself. In this fantasy world you are either a US 'us' state or a 'them' Terrorist state.

and ofcourse the US in Japan and Germany cannot be compared to the Iraq war because there was no guerilla campaign against the UD forces and for most of the time, they have only been in isolated bases-not an occupation..do you think it costs 2 billion a week to keep that base in Japan?

[ginkobulloba]

Is it just me or is America headed into a sort of civil war? This us versus them mentality has been going on for the last 6 or 7 years but it's getting to be more and more in your face. Be it the blue states versus the red or what have you, America's got a schism happening that is kind of disturbing. One nation, divided by politics.

[gixxerboy1]

On CNN they had a few terrorists experts and whatnots. And they were saying al-queda is stronger now then before we went into Iraq. We have made it worse.

[Mogamedogz]

"I consider myself an independent conservative who still thinks Bush & Cheney are much better than the last administration, if for no other reason than they are not adulterers and liars, and I believe character counts. Bush in my opinion is very honest, loyal, wise and walks with much integrity. He confounds his critics by doing what he says and saying what he does without wavering."

Whoever wrote and believes this crap should be institutionalized immediately.

[Red Ketchup]

My personnal opinion is that the USA "Loses for good" more and more every time an American soldier dies in Iraq.

To this date, there are 3608 American deaths in Iraq (including 116 suicides!) confirmed by the DoD. ( http://icasualties.org/oif/ ) 26558 American soldiers wounded....

Was that piss hole of a country worth the life or limb of a single brave soldier? I don't personally think so.

Red

[gixxerboy1]

I understand nobody wants to loose. But when do we win?

[Logan13]

Whoever wrote and believes this crap should be institutionalized immediately.

Care to elaborate on where this person is wrong?

[Mogamedogz]

Care to elaborate on where this person is wrong?

I never said that they were "wrong" (that is not really possible considering they are simply stating their "opinion").

I just happen to be of the "opinion", that anyone who REALLY believes that nonsense, is either related to Dubya' or delusional.

[Primalinstinct]

We are not leaving anytime soon.

I tell ya, everyone watches too many movies these days. Instant gratification, commercial-watching drones (Look! The stain is gone instantly!!).

When the U.S. bombs the living piss out of a nation they flip the bill and offer the labor to rebuild the specific area. For example, the government currently has 25,000 contracts with private companies alone, in Iraq, to rebuild. It takes years -- if not decades to recoupe a region. The U.S. federal government likes it this way, any how. It gives them reason to hit the American people up for more money and continue to become the greatest corrupt corporation in human history. This approach is the new 'cold war excuse' of fear to suck trillion$ from citizens. "War on terror?" You go to war on a country, not on an 'act' such as terror. Terror is a method, a strategy. "War on terror" is a bottomless statement that leaves you hopeless on a daily basis.

Bases and military presence will likely be evident in Iraq by the U.S. for my lifetime and beyond. That is the really of this situation regardless of what the AP has you pumped up about today. Frankly, I am proud of all our troops who have the foresight to realize this war does not need to carry over the Atlantic ocean and onto U.S. soil. We are not used to that kind of a horrible lifestyle here and we would decline swiftly as a nation. Can you say, "goodbye, Dow Jones"? See you, 401k? All in a matter of weeks, if not days.

We are in Iraq for years to come.

Get over the daily reports that have you hyped up simply for THIER ratings of the day. News is a profitable and powerful business/medium. They are simply trying to make their buck at any persons' expense.

[Mogamedogz]

We are not leaving anytime soon.

I tell ya, everyone watches too many movies these days. Instant gratification, commercial-watching drones (Look! The stain is gone instantly!!).

When the U.S. bombs the living piss out of a nation they flip the bill and offer the labor to rebuild the specific area. For example, the government currently has 25,000 contracts with private companies alone, in Iraq, to rebuild. It takes years -- if not decades to recoupe a region. The U.S. federal government likes it this way, any how. It gives them reason to hit the American people up for more money and continue to become the greatest corrupt corporation in human history. This approach is the new 'cold war excuse' of fear to suck trillion$ from citizens. "War on terror?" You go to war on a country, not on an 'act' such as terror. Terror is a method, a strategy. "War on terror" is a bottomless statement that leaves you hopeless on a daily basis.

Bases and military presence will likely be evident in Iraq by the U.S. for my lifetime and beyond. That is the really of this situation regardless of what the AP has you pumped up about today. Frankly, I am proud of all our troops who have the foresight to realize this war does not need to carry over the Atlantic ocean and onto U.S. soil. We are not used to that kind of a horrible lifestyle here and we would decline swiftly as a nation. Can you say, "goodbye, Dow Jones"? See you, 401k? All in a matter of weeks, if not days.

We are in Iraq for years to come.

Get over the daily reports that have you hyped up simply for THIER ratings of the day. News is a profitable and powerful business/medium. They are simply trying to make their buck at any persons' expense.

IN-FVCKINIG-DEED!!! ^^

I wonder which lucky company is going to make the most mula off of those "Rebuilding Contracts"? That would be interesting to know...

[Primalinstinct]

Is it just me or is America headed into a sort of civil war? This us versus them mentality has been going on for the last 6 or 7 years but it's getting to be more and more in your face. Be it the blue states versus the red or what have you, America's got a schism happening that is kind of disturbing. One nation, divided by politics.

And race.

[eliteforce]

YOU ARE WRONG, does the US still have bases in Vietnam?

If you think the Americans can just go 'hide' somewhere in the desert and not get KIA everyday and not spend Billions everyweek you are very mistaken-it doesn't work that way..once you get down to 100,000 say good bye to Anbar province, Diyla province, most of the shiite cities and most of Bagdad-at this point most of those areas becomes Insurgent Land with the US military and the fake "Iraqi Government" having no control-at this point the Insurgents have defacto large swaths of total soverignty. Get down to 60,000 and say good by to Baghdad..keep in mind that even now with 200,000+ foriegn occupation forces (includes sec. contractors), the Green Zone is coming under sustained mortar and rocket fire..at 60,000 the place will be surrounded and the insurgents will stockpile rockets and mortars and greatly increase the harrassment..meanwhile whatever president will still be forced to come back again and again to Congress for "Emergency Funding".. a petty tough sell especially if it's gonna be a D Pres. and D Cong.
Once it starts unravelling maintaining any kind of a "strategic" presence just becomes pointless..

Lets not forget-the US has Kuwait as a reliable 'beach head' position, near landlocked Iraq has always been a useless position..WHEN, in the modern imperialist era, going back to the 1700's, has a landlocked country ever had any strategic importance?

We are not leaving anytime soon.
Bases and military presence will likely be evident in Iraq by the U.S. for my lifetime and beyond. That is the really of this situation regardless of what the AP has you pumped up about today. Frankly, I am proud of all our troops who have the foresight to realize this war does not need to carry over the Atlantic ocean and onto U.S. soil. We are not used to that kind of a horrible lifestyle here and we would decline swiftly as a nation. Can you say, "goodbye, Dow Jones"? See you, 401k? All in a matter of weeks, if not days.

We are in Iraq for years to come.

Get over the daily reports that have you hyped up simply for THIER ratings of the day. News is a profitable and powerful business/medium. They are simply trying to make their buck at any persons' expense.

[Logan13]

I never said that they were "wrong" (that is not really possible considering they are simply stating their "opinion").

I just happen to be of the "opinion", that anyone who REALLY believes that nonsense, is either related to Dubya' or delusional.

I was just interested what, in your opinion, was specifically "delusional" and why.

[Logan13]

IN-FVCKINIG-DEED!!! ^^

I wonder which lucky company is going to make the most mula off of those "Rebuilding Contracts"? That would be interesting to know...

Don't know, but I do know that not one US company got a contract on the rebuilding of the Iraqi oil fields. Let's get the facts straight before making absurd statements, to not do so makes you look, well...........absurd.

[Mogamedogz]

I was just interested what, in your opinion, was specifically "delusional" and why.

"BUSH IN MY OPINION IS VERY HONEST..." ?? Are you serious!?? That statement says it all!!!

Maybe this person MISSED what could go down as the single most DEVASTATING lie ever told to the American people... "There are WMD's in Iraq".

We went overseas to find those responsible for 9/11 and when we ran into trouble finding them, we pulled up stakes and proceeded to run "unprovoked" into a country that (while we have a history with), did nothing of relevance to ask for it recently. ALL BASED ON LIES!!

Iraq was not a threat to us. Iraq could have never done much damage to us, and knew full well that if they masterminded any major attack on the US, they would literally be swept from the planet with a full-scale and coordinated attack (key word being coordinated) that was supported by the majority of the planet. Now, however, we aren't against just Iraq. We have accomplished something that no one was thought to be capable of. We united the Middle East with one overlying thought. Hate America. While we have never had allot of friends over there (mostly because of the way we have treated the area over the last century), most of the true hatred wasn't focused, and the countries were never allied in their hatred. For crying out loud, we almost have Iran and Iraq as friends, which has been an eternal war for centuries (granted, I think Iran only wants to expand their borders, but that's not the point).

Thru our bullying tactics, and our support of Israel and their bullying tactics the vast majority of the Middle East (even those who are non-fanatical) are slowly uniting against us. THAT will be a threat. Nearly the entire southern edge of Asia has all but spit in our faces now, and have displayed that they will not concede to our will any longer, and if necessary will die for that belief. This is not even saying how much we have pissed off the rest of the world, including many European nations, as well as most of Asia. We are quickly isolating ourselves from the rest of the world, and we almost cannot come out on top any longer.

WWIII is likely just around the corner, only it will be the most of the entire world against us, and if that happens, we will not survive. How that war will manifest itself appears to be the only question...at least to me.

WMDs wasn't even sufficient reason for us to pull up stakes and plunge into an unorganized battle plan with a completely separate and unclear agenda. Even if it were true, (which it clearly was not) so much for Dubya's "HONESTY").

The funny thing is, he muttered WMD's constantly as if that changed the fact that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, and THAT was what the people supported, and THAT was what THE WORLD supported. Instead we half-assed it into Iraq and opened a can of worms that we can't get the lid back on.

In the end, we are there for personal agenda, and no other reason. If you can honestly sit there and come up with another reason why we went there that isn't propaganda ridden garbage, then please...tell me, cuz I am dying to know. It was personal agenda, whether financial or political is moot (I happen to believe that it was for BOTH), there's just no other explanation.


Anyone who considers a moral wrong like ADULTRY, more EVIL than the sacrifice of 3,658 American lives and counting (because of a personal agenda), needs to have their head examined.

[Mogamedogz]

Don't know, but I do know that not one US company got a contract on the rebuilding of the Iraqi oil fields. Let's get the facts straight before making absurd statements, to not do so makes you look, well...........absurd.

Simple yes or no...

DID DICK CHENEY AND HIS FRIENDS PROFIT FROM "NO BID" CONTRACTS AWARDED DURING (and as a direct result of) THE WAR IN IRAQ??

if your answer is "NO"... than it is YOU my friend who sounds "absurd" (and dillusional ).

[ginkobulloba]

This is why America is in the middle of a growing civil war. This shit going on the desert, of which I was a part of for more than one tour, is tearing apart America. Blue versus red or what have you is only growing with each day that passes.

[givemethejuice]

"BUSH IN MY OPINION IS VERY HONEST..." ?? Are you serious!?? That statement says it all!!!

Maybe this person MISSED what could go down as the single most DEVASTATING lie ever told to the American people... "There are WMD's in Iraq".

We went overseas to find those responsible for 9/11 and when we ran into trouble finding them, we pulled up stakes and proceeded to run "unprovoked" into a country that (while we have a history with), did nothing of relevance to ask for it recently. ALL BASED ON LIES!!

Iraq was not a threat to us. Iraq could have never done much damage to us, and knew full well that if they masterminded any major attack on the US, they would literally be swept from the planet with a full-scale and coordinated attack (key word being coordinated) that was supported by the majority of the planet. Now, however, we aren't against just Iraq. We have accomplished something that no one was thought to be capable of. We united the Middle East with one overlying thought. Hate America. While we have never had allot of friends over there (mostly because of the way we have treated the area over the last century), most of the true hatred wasn't focused, and the countries were never allied in their hatred. For crying out loud, we almost have Iran and Iraq as friends, which has been an eternal war for centuries (granted, I think Iran only wants to expand their borders, but that's not the point).

Thru our bullying tactics, and our support of Israel and their bullying tactics the vast majority of the Middle East (even those who are non-fanatical) are slowly uniting against us. THAT will be a threat. Nearly the entire southern edge of Asia has all but spit in our faces now, and have displayed that they will not concede to our will any longer, and if necessary will die for that belief. This is not even saying how much we have pissed off the rest of the world, including many European nations, as well as most of Asia. We are quickly isolating ourselves from the rest of the world, and we almost cannot come out on top any longer.

WWIII is likely just around the corner, only it will be the most of the entire world against us, and if that happens, we will not survive. How that war will manifest itself appears to be the only question...at least to me.

WMDs wasn't even sufficient reason for us to pull up stakes and plunge into an unorganized battle plan with a completely separate and unclear agenda. Even if it were true, (which it clearly was not) so much for Dubya's "HONESTY").

The funny thing is, he muttered WMD's constantly as if that changed the fact that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, and THAT was what the people supported, and THAT was what THE WORLD supported. Instead we half-assed it into Iraq and opened a can of worms that we can't get the lid back on.

In the end, we are there for personal agenda, and no other reason. If you can honestly sit there and come up with another reason why we went there that isn't propaganda ridden garbage, then please...tell me, cuz I am dying to know. It was personal agenda, whether financial or political is moot (I happen to believe that it was for BOTH), there's just no other explanation.


Anyone who considers a moral wrong like ADULTRY, more EVIL than the sacrifice of 3,658 American lives and counting (because of a personal agenda), needs to have their head examined.

\

Bullshit!! Think about it. The world has become too commercilaized. If you take away the U.S.'s buying power from the rest of the world, everybodys economy would crumble. We are the number 2 importer in the world behind China!

[Mogamedogz]

\
If you take away the U.S.'s buying power from the rest of the world, everybodys economy would crumble.

That's what happens in a (modern day) "WORLD WAR"...Economies will crumble.

You dont think that the "former" Soviet Union is sitting back right now watching us fight this war that we cant win, wearing a huge grin?? (Similar to what we did to them??) I wouldnt be (even a little bit) surprised if the insurgents were getting a little "secret asistance" from our old foe's.

Like I said... it is not a matter of "IF", it is a matter of "When" and "How". What you are seeing in Iraq, is the begining stages of the third World War.

[Flagg]

First of all, what is a "win" in Iraq exactly? What is the primary objective to achieve that win cause it seems to have just been forgotten in the shuffle and secondly, what then? Is Bush gonna declare War on Terror on the entire Middle East after that? Cause if he wants to stamp out Al Queda, thats what he's gonna have to do. Go into every Muslim dominant country in the world.

[Primalinstinct]

YOU ARE WRONG, does the US still have bases in Vietnam?

If you think the Americans can just go 'hide' somewhere in the desert and not get KIA everyday and not spend Billions everyweek you are very mistaken-it doesn't work that way..once you get down to 100,000 say good bye to Anbar province, Diyla province, most of the shiite cities and most of Bagdad-at this point most of those areas becomes Insurgent Land with the US military and the fake "Iraqi Government" having no control-at this point the Insurgents have defacto large swaths of total soverignty. Get down to 60,000 and say good by to Baghdad..keep in mind that even now with 200,000+ foriegn occupation forces (includes sec. contractors), the Green Zone is coming under sustained mortar and rocket fire..at 60,000 the place will be surrounded and the insurgents will stockpile rockets and mortars and greatly increase the harrassment..meanwhile whatever president will still be forced to come back again and again to Congress for "Emergency Funding".. a petty tough sell especially if it's gonna be a D Pres. and D Cong.
Once it starts unravelling maintaining any kind of a "strategic" presence just becomes pointless..

Lets not forget-the US has Kuwait as a reliable 'beach head' position, near landlocked Iraq has always been a useless position..WHEN, in the modern imperialist era, going back to the 1700's, has a landlocked country ever had any strategic importance?

No need to shout at me. I already had a Mom.


I'm going to give you an example just with a little sliver of land called Japan. I will not even get into Europe, Guam.... Even Kuwait *foot in your mouth* a country we invaded:

For Okinawa, the southernmost island of Japan, which has been an American military colony for the past 58 years, the report deceptively lists only one Marine base, Camp Butler, when in fact Okinawa "hosts" ten Marine Corps bases, including Marine Corps Air Station Futenma occupying 1,186 acres in the center of that modest-sized island's second largest city. (Manhattan's Central Park, by contrast, is only 843 acres.) The Pentagon similarly fails to note all of the $5-billion-worth of military and espionage installations in Britain, which have long been conveniently disguised as Royal Air Force bases. If there were an honest count, the actual size of our military empire would probably top 1,000 different bases in other people's countries, but no one -- possibly not even the Pentagon -- knows the exact number for sure, although it has been distinctly on the rise in recent years.

[eliteforce]

OK the difference is in all those places you mention, the US never faced an organized guerilla war and real local police controlled the general area. Even if these bases are large-they are pretty much large peices of land and the Americans are concentrated in them. That is not an occupation, that is just have military assets stationed in a friendly country. The one place America had an insurgency is Vietnam, and ultimatly every last position had to be evacuated.

[Property of Steroid.com]

I think that the bottom line is that the Iraqis did not and would not have fought for the freedom they now have. They didn't fight for it, they don't respect it, and they won't be able to keep it if we leave, for all of those reasons.

[Joemeek]

I believe the Iraqi people felt they were let down in 91 when the forces pulled out and left them to it, hence the reason so many were killed after it and why they were so reluctant to get involved the second time.
They should have finished the job off the first time like Schwarzkopf wanted.

[Hoggage_54]

"Had we gone the invasion route, the US could conceivably still be an occupying power in a bitterly hostile land."
-- George H. W. Bush, "A World Transformed," 1998 memoir
(explaining why the US did not occupy Iraq in the 1991 "Desert Storm" war)

"If you're going to go in and try to topple Saddam Hussein,you have to go to Baghdad. Once you've got Baghdad, it's not clear what you do with it. It's not clear what kind of government you would put in place of the one that's currently there now. Is it going to be a Shia regime, a Sunni regime or a Kurdish regime? Or one that tilts toward the Baathists, or one that tilts toward the Islamic fundamentalists?
How much credibility is that government going to have if it's set up by the United States military when it's there? How long does the United States military have to stay to protect the people that sign on for that government, and what happens to it once we leave?"
-- Dick Cheney, 1991

[eliteforce]

What ever happened to Dick Cheney? I read thatn and remember prety much agreeing with everything he used to say back then when republican forign policies were successful.

one more note-the number of people slaughtered in the aftermath of the shia uprising in 91 was greatly exagerated, numbers like 100,000 were floated around but in reality it was probably less than 10,000. The notion that the Iraqi people felt "let down" in 1991 because the US didn't occupy their country subjecting them to years of destruction and mass killing is absolute non-sense; The Iraqi people never wanted this invasion,then or in 2003; even the hardcore islamists who hated saddam didn't want his regime deposed in that way.

[Army God]

On CNN they had a few terrorists experts and whatnots. And they were saying al-queda is stronger now then before we went into Iraq. We have made it worse.

That doesn't seem to make sense considering we haven't had an attack in America since Sept 11th. Don't forgot that we were attacked in America numerous times BEFORE we went into Iraq.

We kill thousands of terrorists a day. Fight the war over there or let them bring it back to U.S. soil and create another 911

[BgMc31]

And race.

And which race should that be?

[BgMc31]

That doesn't seem to make sense considering we haven't had an attack in America since Sept 11th. Don't forgot that we were attacked in America numerous times BEFORE we went into Iraq.

We kill thousands of terrorists a day. Fight the war over there or let them bring it back to U.S. soil and create another 911

So not true and absolute political rhetoric. We aren't killing thousands of terrorists a day, we are killing thousands of guerrilla fighters who want an occupying force out of their country. Even Fox news reports that al Queda is responsible for 15% of the attacks on US soldiers.

The fact that we haven't been attacked since 2001 doesn't mean we are safer. The last terrorists attack on American soil (by Islamic terrorists) before 2001 was the WTC bombing in 1993. It took 8 years before another attack. It has only been 6yrs since 9/11. We cannot claim that a BS war in Iraq (which has already been proven to not house terrorists and no affiliation with Al Queda until we invaded) had prevented terrorist attacks in the US.

In reference to the original post where the cat claims that Bush is more honorable and trustworthy than the 'previous adminstration', I would much rather trust a man who lied about getting a blow job than a guy who lied about a DUI conviction ("George Bush now admits that he was convicted of drunk driving. On September 4, 1976, a state trooper saw Bush's car swerve onto the shoulder, then back onto the road. [The Bush camp spin that he was driving too slowly is simply a lie.] Bush failed a road sobriety test and blew a .10 blood alcohol, plead guilty, and was fined and had his driver's license suspended. His spokesman says that he had drunk "several beers" at a local bar before the arrest. Bush was 30 at the time. He now says that he stopped drinking when he turned 40 because it was a problem.

More troubling, Bush lied in denying such an arrest, and still won't take responsibility for his actions. His first reaction was to blame Democrats and Fox News -- the only openly conservative TV network -- for reporting the story. "Why [was this reported] now, four days before the election? I've got my suspicions." He refused to say what his suspicions are, though. Bush admits covering up the story, but seems to think he has no responsibility for the failure of his cover up. ")

[Army God]

So if another attack happens on American soil will you blame it on our Iraqi occupation?

[BgMc31]

So if another attack happens on American soil will you blame it on our Iraqi occupation?

No I will blame it on the increase in radical islamic fundamentalism which is exaspirated by our continued presence in the Middle East. Do you honestly believe these people have no reason to hate us? Do you think it's just because the hate our way of life? If that is the case, how come there aren't any terrorists attacks in Sweden, Denmark, etc.? These places have no real presence in the Middle East.

[Joemeek]

one more note-the number of people slaughtered in the aftermath of the shia uprising in 91 was greatly exagerated, numbers like 100,000 were floated around but in reality it was probably less than 10,000.

I never mentioned numbers but you seem to think 10,000 people being slaughtered is an acceptable number then ?

The notion that the Iraqi people felt "let down" in 1991 because the US didn't occupy their country subjecting them to years of destruction and mass killing is absolute non-sense;

I never said that either. A lot of people felt let down because with the "ALLIED" help they stood up and wanted Saddam out. Remember a lot of these people lived in fear of this man and rightly so, therefore they were a bit hesitant to offer more help and information to help the Allied troops second time incase they pulled out again. So chill out, i'm not here to argue with you.

[Primalinstinct]

And which race should that be?

All races.

It is a melting pot on the hill, now. Everyone is in it for themselves and NOTHING is getting done. Just take a look at how may caucuses / special interest committees that have been start in just the past 5 years. It went from 20 or 30, to 200 or 400 of them! How the heck is anything going to get done that way?

And, yes. Race plays a big part of stagnant progress.

The majority is not represented in th US anymore. This is the ultimate demise and decent of the quality in the US. Is not majority the catalyst of a democracy?

This is intentional to bring on the the North American Union (Mexico, US, Canada merger) and Amero currency that will be instilled. The Federal Reserve cartel will have a field day with the change over and make their inbred kids even more wealthy. It only took less than 100 years for the Federal Reserve (1914) to take the power (money) over. Hence, our land Thanks lawyers. Thanks Corporations.

Did you know the Federal Reserve is NOT a branch of the federal government? J.D. Rockefeller and company decided to start loaning money to a country who already collected trillions from it's citizens. It is a bunch of rich bastards whom you will never know. Did you ever see the board who appointed the infamous Mr. Greenspan? Of course not. They're too ****ing rich. They run this land.

Did you know your US dollar is backed only by confidence? It is paper you could wipe you ass with someday. The gold standard was taken away from the currency I think during Nixon's years... Like magic. Why isn't anyone upset about such an action on a people? Because Paris Hilton is out of jail and that is more important.

[Primalinstinct]

YOU ARE WRONG, does the US still have bases in Vietnam?


Vietnam = rice patties

Iraq = oil

Any questions?

We are not there because corn is their major crop.

[Decoder]

the iraqis didnt fight for there freedom, Therefore when its given to them when we leave they will loose it again. The war is a waste.

[Primalinstinct]

the iraqis didnt fight for there freedom, Therefore when its given to them when we leave they will loose it again. The war is a waste.

yes. you can lead a horse to water.


but do they want what we want?


they have such different tradition and beliefs.

[LawMan018]

If we leave Iraq, do we lose for good?
salon.com
"To those of you against the war in Iraq, here is what you do not understand: Iraq is but one battle in the 60-plus-year ideological struggle we call "the war on terror." Do you really want to leave Iraq and wait for the enemy and ideology that dropped the World Trade Center to grow into a much stronger, deadlier and efficient killing force? Did you not understand or believe President Bush in his address to the nation on Sept. 20, 2001, when he said:

"Our war on terror begins with al Qaeda, but does not end there ... This war will not be like other wars. Americans should not expect one battle, but a lengthy campaign, unlike any other we have ever seen ... Every nation, in every region, now has a decision to make. Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists. From this day forward, any nation that continues to harbor or support terrorism will be regarded by the United States as a hostile regime ... But the only way to defeat terrorism as a threat to our way of life is to stop it, eliminate it, and destroy it where it grows ... I ask for your ... patience in what will be a long struggle."

I consider myself an independent conservative who still thinks Bush & Cheney are much better than the last administration, if for no other reason than they are not adulterers and liars, and I believe character counts. Bush in my opinion is very honest, loyal, wise and walks with much integrity. He confounds his critics by doing what he says and saying what he does without wavering.

Bush did not steal the 2000 election! He won every time the votes were counted. History will show that the opposition tried to steal that election but failed. He did not lie about WMD in Iraq! His administration inherited an intelligence organization that made him believe WMD were being stockpiled in Iraq, along with a stated policy of regime change.

Bush is mature, acts responsibly and governs by doing what is right, living by the creed "the buck stops here." The previous administration governed by polls and acted like "the buck never got here." After 9/11, and with current knowledge of the day, had Bush not invaded Iraq, I believe he would have been acting as irresponsibly as the previous president.

I do not believe foreign policy under Bush has created more terrorists. On the contrary, it has revealed them.

I also think that a quick retreat from the Middle East would be the same as circling our wagons while waiting for 9/11-inspired attacks to continue here with greater and greater lethality by an enemy who will use WMD as soon as possible. Just try to imagine 9/11 with nukes.

If we choose defeat by giving up and retreating now, even if we are able to avoid attacks at home, we will be back in the Middle East within 10 years facing a much stronger and emboldened enemy with WMD at a cost to the United States in lives and resources hundreds of times higher than at present levels. Victory in the Middle East will be much less costly in a slow deliberate struggle over a long run and should be treated with the same patience that has kept us in Japan, Germany and Korea for more than 40 years."

I'm sorry, I thought you were going to have a punch line at the end of this, wow... Still got my laughs worth tho... Bush's regime better then the last? Wow... Um, I don't believe we were in debt 25 trillion plus, and I believe most of the world actually liked us... So, we can thank him for ruining our image as liberators and turning us into conquerors... What does 9/11 have to do with Iraq, clearly it was linked to the terrorist group within Saudi Arabia... And we have to fight terrorism head on.. Okay, why don't we go into Iran next? Clearly Bush has been one of "the worst" President's the United States has ever had... Just look at his approval rating

[Fat Guy]

IN-FVCKINIG-DEED!!! ^^

I wonder which lucky company is going to make the most mula off of those "Rebuilding Contracts"? That would be interesting to know...

Can you say HALIBURTON?