Giuliani vows to stop illegal immigrants

**kfrost06** · 08-14-2007, 12:42 PM

AIKEN, S.C. - Republican presidential hopeful Rudy Giuliani vowed Tuesday to stop the flow of illegal immigrants into the United States by closely tracking visitors to the country and beefing up border security.

"We can end illegal immigration. I promise you, we can end illegal immigration," the former New York mayor said at a community center — the first of the day's two stops in this early voting state.

Giuliani said he would require a uniform identification card for foreign workers and students and create a central database to track the legal status of visitors to the country. He told the crowd of more than 300 that 12 million immigrants have entered the country illegally.

"That's a lot of people to walk over your border without being identified," he said.

Giuliani wants a tamperproof ID card that includes fingerprinting for everyone entering the country and a central database to track when they leave.

The ID card and other immigration proposals have been part of Giuliani's campaign speeches for several months. He says he would allow a pathway to citizenship only for illegal immigrants who identify themselves as illegal, who learn English and who go to the back of the line to apply.

Rival Mitt Romney has criticized Giuliani on immigration, arguing that he supported illegal immigration when he was mayor — a charge Giuliani rejected.

Romney said last week that Giuliani "instructed city workers not to provide information to the federal government that would allow them to enforce the law. New York City was the poster child for sanctuary cities in the country."

New York has never officially declared itself a "sanctuary city." Last month, New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg told Congress that the city protects residents' confidentiality when they report a crime or seek medical care or education — a local policy that dates to 1988.

Giuliani defended and supported that executive order while mayor.

Bloomberg has said repeatedly that immigrants are important contributors to the city's economy and crucial to the city's survival. Asked Monday about the idea of New York City as a sanctuary for immigrants, Bloomberg said, "let 'em come."

"I can't think of any laboratory that shows better why you need a stream of immigrants than New York City," he added. "I don't know what to tell anybody. They just — if they don't believe that immigrants add a heck of a lot more than they cost, they just aren't looking at the numbers."

Answering Romney last week, Giuliani said New York "had the least amount of illegality per capita of any major city in the country and I brought that change about."

In South Carolina Tuesday, Giuliani said he would continue construction of a border fence, deport any illegal alien who commits a felony and propose that all immigrants who want to become citizens learn English.

Giuliani and Romney opposed the bipartisan immigration legislation backed by President Bush. Rival Sen. John McCain of Arizona was the only Republican candidate to support the measure.

**kfrost06** · 08-14-2007, 12:45 PM

Perhaps Giuliani forgot he is a 2nd generation immigrant who's grandparents didn't know English when they immigrated here from Italy. His dad, Harold Giuliani had trouble holding a job and had been convicted of felony assault and robbery and served time in Sing Sing. After his release he served as a Mafia enforcer for his brother-in-law Leo D'Avanzo, who ran an organized crime operation involved in loan sharking and gambling at a restaurant in Brooklyn. Double standard?

**bpm1** · 08-14-2007, 01:23 PM

not if rudy has kept his life clean.we r not responsible or liable for the sins of our parents

**kfrost06** · 08-14-2007, 01:41 PM

True but I think it's hypocritical to take this hard stance on immigration, he's taking to get votes, when he is a product of immigration himself.

**Kratos** · 08-14-2007, 01:43 PM

I'm for closing the borders, it's getting too crowded, even if that means I can't afford to have conswela clean my hose anymore. This whole America is the land of imigrants philosophy, so let em' in cause you come from imigrants is going to have to end at some point.

**bpm1** · 08-14-2007, 01:45 PM

my friend we r all product of immigration in this country unless ur 100% native american. my family came from germany and denmark in the 1800's im sure urs is similar as well. as long as it is done legally i dont care the problem is it has turned into a free for all at the border and that is just scary to say the least. i agree with wat he says on this although i have a hard time with other views he has

**bpm1** · 08-14-2007, 01:47 PM

Originally Posted by Kratos

I'm for closing the borders, it's getting too crowded, even if that means I can't afford to have conswela clean my hose anymore. This whole America is the land of imigrants philosophy, so let em' in cause you come from imigrants is going to have to end at some point.

deff close the border but let those cross for work and even live here i dont care, we just need to know who is here.face it there r a shitload of jobs us pansyassed american refuse to do and they dont mind, we need them IMO

**kfrost06** · 08-14-2007, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by Kratos

I'm for closing the borders, it's getting too crowded, even if that means I can't afford to have conswela clean my hose anymore. This whole America is the land of imigrants philosophy, so let em' in cause you come from imigrants is going to have to end at some point.

This arguement has been used since the birth of the nation, The Naturalization Act of 1798 increased the residency requirement for American citizenship from five to fourteen years, required aliens to declare their intent to acquire citizenship five years before it could be granted, and made persons from ‘enemy’ nations ineligible for naturalization. Aliens were specifically affected by two other acts, which authorized their deportation if they were deemed ‘dangerous to the peace and safety of the United States’ and their wholesale incarceration or expulsion by presidential executive order during wartime. Thankfully the laws were repealed with the Naturalization Act of 1802.

The Alien Contract Labor Law of February 26, 1885 (23 Stat. 332) restricted immigration even further. The legislation passed in the Alien Contract Labor Law was designed to make it illegal to import "aliens or to assist in their importation or migration into the United States under any contract made prior to the importation or migration for the performance of labor or service of any kind." (Bennett 1963, 18) Exceptions to the law included professional actors, singers, artists, lec turers, and relatives and personal friends already residing in the United States.

Were these laws enforced then we'd all be living in another country. Nothings changed just a different group coming in now and the ones already here are preaching the end of the world as we know it. People move here to make a better life for themselves the same way are antecedents did.

**bpm1** · 08-14-2007, 02:07 PM

we just need to know who is here and get rid of the law breakers/criminals. there is this mother effin gang member wanted in az now that has commited murder 2 diff times and he keeps getting deported before he gets a trial and then he comes back, well now they r looking for him but its too late 2 people r already dead.this is the kinda s**t that HAS TO STOP!! document everybody and if u mess up then blam no citizenship and u get deported PERMANENTLY.the deal is most of the immigrants here r law abiding citizens just looking for a better life and its ok if we give it to them but we nned to know who's here, nuff said!

**gixxerboy1** · 08-14-2007, 06:44 PM

Originally Posted by bpm1

we just need to know who is here and get rid of the law breakers/criminals. there is this mother effin gang member wanted in az now that has commited murder 2 diff times and he keeps getting deported before he gets a trial and then he comes back, well now they r looking for him but its too late 2 people r already dead.this is the kinda s**t that HAS TO STOP!! document everybody and if u mess up then blam no citizenship and u get deported PERMANENTLY.the deal is most of the immigrants here r law abiding citizens just looking for a better life and its ok if we give it to them but we nned to know who's here, nuff said!

I agree. Sorry but it pisses my off my GF has spent over 8k in lawyer fee's and other paperwork trying to stay here legally. She is from Russia. She is a 22 year college student and works. She still hasn't been approved and has more to pay and longer to try. Yet just because someone lives close enough to run across our borders and made it they should be able to stay legally? It BS. If they allow that they should cut a check to all the immigrants that spent thousand to do it legally for nothing.

**bpm1** · 08-14-2007, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by gixxerboy1

I agree. Sorry but it pisses my off my GF has spent over 8k in lawyer fee's and other paperwork trying to stay here legally. She is from Russia. She is a 22 year college student and works. She still hasn't been approved and has more to pay and longer to try. Yet just because someone lives close enough to run across our borders and made it they should be able to stay legally? It BS. If they allow that they should cut a check to all the immigrants that spent thousand to do it legally for nothing.

yup, i agree

**Coop77** · 08-14-2007, 10:51 PM

Originally Posted by kfrost06

True but I think it's hypocritical to take this hard stance on immigration, he's taking to get votes, when he is a product of immigration himself.

Giuliani is saying he's against illegal immigration. There's a big difference.

**Coop77** · 08-14-2007, 10:53 PM

Here in LA a few months ago there was a huge rally downtown, promoted by one of the Spanish radio stations, in support of the "rights" of illegal immigrants. Personally, i find the concept of illegal immigrants demanding rights absurd. It's like someone breaking into your house, sitting on the couch, and then demanding a turn to hold the remote. They held signs that said "WE ARE NOT CRIMINALS!" I'm sorry, but you are. The definition of a criminal is someone who ignores the law.

**bpm1** · 08-15-2007, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by Coop77

Here in LA a few months ago there was a huge rally downtown, promoted by one of the Spanish radio stations, in support of the "rights" of illegal immigrants. Personally, i find the concept of illegal immigrants demanding rights absurd. It's like someone breaking into your house, sitting on the couch, and then demanding a turn to hold the remote. They held signs that said "WE ARE NOT CRIMINALS!" I'm sorry, but you are. The definition of a criminal is someone who ignores the law.

EXACTLY, only legal US citizens have rights which makes the ruling of a conneticut judge even more absurd.he vetoed/killed the immigration reform bill in his state because "it violates their constitutional rights" WTF!!!! i like ur analogy..................

**kfrost06** · 08-15-2007, 09:36 AM

Originally Posted by Coop77

Giuliani is saying he's against illegal immigration. There's a big difference.

I don't think I was clear why I labelled him a hypocrite but here's a pertinent part from the article:

"Rival Mitt Romney has criticized Giuliani on immigration, arguing that he supported illegal immigration when he was mayor — a charge Giuliani rejected.

Romney said last week that Giuliani "instructed city workers not to provide information to the federal government that would allow them to enforce the law. New York City was the poster child for sanctuary cities in the country."

Giuliani defended and supported that executive order while mayor."

Make no mistake, Giuliani is a sleaze ball and is desperate to gain the conservative core of the Republican party which he needs to win the nomination and that’s why he's taking this stand NOW.

**kfrost06** · 08-15-2007, 09:40 AM

Originally Posted by Coop77

Here in LA a few months ago there was a huge rally downtown, promoted by one of the Spanish radio stations, in support of the "rights" of illegal immigrants. Personally, i find the concept of illegal immigrants demanding rights absurd. It's like someone breaking into your house, sitting on the couch, and then demanding a turn to hold the remote. They held signs that said "WE ARE NOT CRIMINALS!" I'm sorry, but you are. The definition of a criminal is someone who ignores the law.

I live in LA too. I remember those rallies and they were a joke. It was an excuse for kids to play hookie from school, those people in the rallies were not representive of the immigrants.

The bottom line that we all can agree on is the federal government has failed miserably when it comes to immigration, they turned a blind eye, they did nothing and that’s the governments fault. You can't blame someone for fleeing poverty and oppressive governments to come to the greatest country the world has ever had so they can make a better life for themselves and their kids.

**bpm1** · 08-15-2007, 09:41 AM

Originally Posted by kfrost06

I don't think I was clear why I labelled him a hypocrite but here's a pertinent part from the article:

"Rival Mitt Romney has criticized Giuliani on immigration, arguing that he supported illegal immigration when he was mayor — a charge Giuliani rejected.

Romney said last week that Giuliani "instructed city workers not to provide information to the federal government that would allow them to enforce the law. New York City was the poster child for sanctuary cities in the country."

Giuliani defended and supported that executive order while mayor."

Make no mistake, Giuliani is a sleaze ball and is desperate to gain the conservative core of the Republican party which he needs to win the nomination and that’s why he's taking this stand NOW.

yes i agree, this is contrary to how he is speaking now, did it really happen or is it just an attack from romney? either way at the very least he turned a blind eye to it, which is wat u do wen the system is flawed. let me say again i wont be supporting giuliani for pres but i do believe he is a good man

**Renesis** · 08-15-2007, 12:01 PM

I don't care if he is doing it for the votes, to gain majority, blah blah blah get these damn illegals out of our country. I am sick and tired of being associated with those scum bags...

**PEWN** · 08-15-2007, 12:03 PM

lets just build a whole...

**kfrost06** · 08-15-2007, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by Renesis

I don't care if he is doing it for the votes, to gain majority, blah blah blah get these damn illegals out of our country. I am sick and tired of being associated with those scum bags...

^^naco

**kfrost06** · 08-15-2007, 12:19 PM

WASHINGTON - Mitt Romney accuses former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani of making his city a haven for illegal immigrants. Giuliani denies it, insisting he cracked down on lawlessness of every kind.

It's the first real clash between two leading Republican candidates who are vulnerable on immigration, a volatile issue that infuriates Republican conservatives who hold sway over primary elections.

At issue are so-called sanctuary cities, places where city employees are not required to report illegal immigrants to federal authorities. Some, such as San Francisco, have declared themselves sanctuaries or refuges. Others, like New York, have never adopted the "sanctuary" moniker.

New York's policy, issued by Democratic Mayor Ed Koch in 1988, is intended to make illegal immigrants feel that they can report crimes, send their children to school or seek medical treatment without fear of being reported.

An estimated half-million illegal and undocumented immigrants live in New York, and only a fraction are deported each year.

"What's the best thing to do about that?" Giuliani asked in 1996. "Put them in a situation in which they keep children out of school? Put them in a situation in which they don't go to hospitals? Or put them in a situation in which they don't report crimes to the police?"

Giuliani went to court to preserve the policy, suing over a 1996 attempt by Congress to undo the city's protections. He lost, but Mayor Mike Bloomberg later issued a new, broader version of the policy that is still in effect.

In the presidential campaign, Giuliani and Romney are talking tough on immigration, even opposing the bipartisan immigration overhaul backed by President Bush. Yet their records are not necessarily tough. For example:

_Several illegal immigrants worked on Romney's lawn as employees of a lawn care company; Romney said he didn't know the company had hired illegal workers.

_As mayor, Giuliani often spoke positively about illegal immigrants: "If you come here, and you work hard, and you happen to be in an undocumented status, you're one of the people who we want in this city," he told The New York Times in 1994.

_Both Romney and Giuliani spoke favorably of 2006 legislation providing a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants; they opposed a similar bill earlier this year.

Immigration inflames conservatives in early voting states such as Iowa and South Carolina, where some argue that illegal immigrants are straining schools and hospitals, lowering wages or taking jobs from law-abiding citizens.

In Aiken, S.C., on Tuesday, Giuliani repeated a pledge to closely track immigrants with tamperproof identity cards, bolster fencing and law enforcement at the border and deport illegal immigrants who commit crimes.

Giuliani planned to highlight his support for a physical and technological fence with new radio ads beginning Wednesday in New Hampshire and Iowa. His technological fence would be a system of motion detectors, night vision monitors and video cameras.

Romney, inspecting border fencing and checkpoints Monday in San Diego, reiterated his plan to hire more Border Patrol agents, sanction employers who hire illegal immigrants and cut federal dollars for sanctuary cities.

Romney blames "don't tell" policies, and Giuliani's support for them, for luring millions of illegal immigrants to the United States.

"New York City was the poster child for sanctuary cities in the country," Romney said last week in Bettendorf, Iowa.

Giuliani's defense is that he cracked down on all crimes, including illegal immigration. "I don't think there was anybody in America who did a better job of making their city safe in the 1990s than I did," Giuliani said while campaigning in Carson, Iowa, on Wednesday. "I did that and I can do that for immigration."

And his campaign accused Romney of hypocrisy, pointing out that as governor of Massachusetts, Romney did not try to punish sanctuary cities — Cambridge, Orleans and Somerville — in his own state.

"He had three sanctuary cities in his own state," longtime Giuliani aide Randy Mastro said. "The New York City program was very different. We had a system that protected public safety by encouraging aliens to come forward to the authorities to report crimes, and then required authorities to cooperate in the investigation and prosecution of aliens who committed crimes."

Romney says he tried to curtail the problem by deputizing state police to enforce federal immigration laws.

"It was exactly in response to the fact that immigration laws were not being enforced," spokesman Kevin Madden said. "It was also in conjunction with his belief that enforcement has to be a joint state and federal effort."

Bloomberg, who may run for president himself, waded into the dispute this week. Asked Monday about the idea of New York as a sanctuary for illegal immigrants, he said, "Let 'em come."

"I can't think of any laboratory that shows better why you need a stream of immigrants than New York City," he added. "I don't know what to tell anybody. If they don't believe that immigrants add a heck of a lot more than they cost, they just aren't looking at the numbers."

**m8intl** · 08-15-2007, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by Coop77

Personally, i find the concept of illegal immigrants demanding rights absurd. ...They held signs that said "WE ARE NOT CRIMINALS!" I'm sorry, but you are. The definition of a criminal is someone who ignores the law.

Amen to that. If one's here illegally, then he or she acts in a manner contrary to established law. An illegal immigrant's very presence is an act of criminality. Now, is an illegal immigrant's act of defiance as detrimental to our nation as a criminal who commits violent crimes against our citizens? No, of course not, but both are criminals because they thumb their nose at national law.

Good for Rudy. Immigration is out of control. I'd vote for him.