Blackwater guards pumped on steroids, lawsuit alleges

[Tock]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/11/27...tml?eref=yahoo


Blackwater guards pumped on steroids, lawsuit alleges


WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A quarter of Blackwater security guards in Iraq use steroids and other "judgment-altering substances," according to a lawsuit filed by the families of several Iraqis killed or wounded in a Baghdad shooting in September.

Blackwater denies the charges.
The suit, filed Monday in Washington, accuses the company of fostering "a culture of lawlessness" among its guards and says the use of excessive force helps the company preserve a key selling point -- the fact that none of its protectees have been killed during the four-year-old war.
"I think there is a whole corporate culture there that essentially rewards the use of excessive force -- shooting first, asking questions later," said Susan Burke, the lead attorney in the case.
The lawsuit accuses Blackwater of war crimes, wrongful death, assault, negligent hiring and emotional distress. The plaintiffs include two wounded survivors of the September 16 shootings around Nusoor Square, in western Baghdad, and the families of five people killed in the incident. Iraqi authorities say the guards killed 17 people in an act of "premeditated murder."
Blackwater has denied any wrongdoing, arguing its contractors used necessary force to protect a State Department convoy that came under fire from insurgents.
The lawsuit accuses Blackwater of failing to control the use of steroids among its guards -- an allegation Burke said came from "people in that community," and one she said would be backed up as the case progresses.

"The reality is that Blackwater has indeed fired people for steroid use, so they're on clear notice that there's steroid use," Burke said. She said Blackwater has marketed the idea "that their people are kind of tougher and bigger than anybody else," and has turned a blind eye toward "serious, repeated situations of excessive use of force."
Blackwater spokeswoman Anne Tyrrell rejected the steroid allegations, saying all company workers face drug tests during their application process and on a quarterly basis while working for the firm.
"Steroids and performance enhancement drugs, both illegal and prescribed, are absolutely in violation of our policy," Tyrrell told CNN. "Blackwater has very strict policies concerning drug use, and if anyone were known to be using illegal drugs, they would be fired immediately."
The lawsuit states that the guards involved in the September 16 killings violated orders from their Baghdad supervisors by leaving a secure area where they had dropped off a State Department official under their protection.
The guards opened fire "without provocation," the suit states, and continued firing even after one of their comrades tried to stop them from shooting.
The lawsuit also accuses the North Carolina-based military contractor of hiring ex-Chilean commandos who were barred from security or military work in their home country after admitting to human rights violations, and of hiring mercenaries -- a term the company rejects -- from a variety of countries.
The U.S. government has paid the company nearly $1 billion for diplomatic security since the invasion of Iraq, a House committee reported in September.
The Nusoor Square killings spurred Iraqi threats to bar the company from operating in Iraq and a push to lift the legal immunity conferred on contractors by the U.S.-led occupation government in 2004.
The lawsuit does not request a specific amount in damages, but Burke said her clients want both compensation for their own losses and punitive damages against the firm "for having failed to take the reasonable and adequate corporate steps that they should have taken ages ago."
"Blackwater encourages and fosters a culture of lawlessness amongst its employees, encouraging them to act in the company's financial interest at the expense of innocent human life," the lawsuit says.

[Teabagger]

I don't really care if they are jacked or not just so it doesn't alter their aim.

[gixxerboy1]

Are steroids illegal in Iraq? Also who put this in their heads? I'm sure the Iraqi families were thinking these guys must be on steroids

[VWbug66]

fukin blackwater,,,fuk bush, he's just as dumb as a redneck hick named cletus "down the yunder"....fuk it thou, i could go on and on and on!!!!!!!!
oh look at this pic i love it
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ilkillbush.jpg

[AandF6969]

The dudes in Blackwater probably don't even have physiques that hint at the fact they juice... they're probably just built, and don't look like shit but oh my god we all know its IMPOSSIBLE to gain muscle and look good without steroids

[Teabagger]

fukin blackwater,,,fuk bush, he's just as dumb as a redneck hick named cletus "down the yunder"....fuk it thou, i could go on and on and on!!!!!!!!
oh look at this pic i love it
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ilkillbush.jpg

You know if I were a mod I'd ban your ass for posting that shit. You are really stupid. Grow up punk, cause you're speech shows in fact you are very immature and considerably dumber than those you rage against.

[Teabagger]

Just to let you know I did report your ass. Not for your stupid, childish, ignorant hate filled comments, but for the link you posted with it.

Anyone that would think assasination of a US leader is good is either not an American, or a traitor. So which one are you boy??

[AandF6969]

Pretty sure there's a lot of people that would like to see George Bush gone, myself included... just because someone is the leader of our country doesn't mean we should ignore all their wrongdoing and blindly follow whatever they do...

Think for yourself, question authority.

[BigLittleTim]

... and the wonderful old Constitution is doing its wonderful old thing. Bush is OUT within the year, when his second term expires!

You can kick the United States Constitution around; suspend the civil rights and popular liberties of American citizens; play fast-and-loose with the Law of the land... and it'll still come back and kick you out on your arse!

Lovers of Liberty, rejoice!

-BigLittleTim

[BigLittleTim]

Oh, and about Blackwater...

American soldiers are the brave and well trained representatives of our civilian directed military, as provided for in the above mentioned Constitution. They know that at any time they may be called upon to die for their country in the line of duty.

Blackwater "soldiers" are contractors... basically "Rent-a-Cop"s on steroids (literally and figuratively). When push comes to shove, they work for a corporation, not a government. I figure, from what I know about human nature, they're gonna "shoot the kids" and save their own arse.

Just how I see it.

-BigLittleTim

[VWbug66]

bigLittleTim im right there with ya man! his ass is gettin shipped straight the fuk out! i wish he was getting sent to Guantanamo to get tortured n "waterboarded" and what not!!

[spywizard]

I was mentally distressed when i witnessed them putting a 14 yr old girl in the street and stoning her..

who do i sue??

[FLBMWMech]

Oh, and about Blackwater...

American soldiers are the brave and well trained representatives of our civilian directed military, as provided for in the above mentioned Constitution. They know that at any time they may be called upon to die for their country in the line of duty.

Blackwater "soldiers" are contractors... basically "Rent-a-Cop"s on steroids (literally and figuratively). When push comes to shove, they work for a corporation, not a government. I figure, from what I know about human nature, they're gonna "shoot the kids" and save their own arse.

Just how I see it.

-BigLittleTim

First of all 'Lil Tim--
The VAST majority of Blackwater operatives were multiple reenlistment US Soldiers. In fact-- They primarily hire ONLY men who are Ranger, SF, Seal, Marine Recon, or Delta qualified. So they aren't a bunch of lowlife cowboys who wake up one morning and decide "Hey, I'll go be a mercenary".
Second-
Having Two close friends who went to work for Blackwater: One in PSD (Personal Security Detail) and the other in Intelligence Analysis-- I saw firsthand the immense amount of screening they went through. First were the EXTENSIVE background checks performed NOT BY BLACKWATER-- but by the FBI. Then came enormous medical record questionaires, physicals, and psychological screenings. THEN-- Before they even offer you an actual job position-- They expect you to move out to Moyock, NC for 3 weeks while they conduct field training, they run you, beat on you, make you qualify with weapons, watch you AT ALL TIMES both how you react under stressful training in the field AND how you bond with the others at the hotel bar in the evening.
Third--
They absolutely prohibit steroids or narcotics (they test for both). They also significantly review any Dr. prescriptions, especially for psychological medications IE Xanax, Ridilin, Adavan, etc.. They won't allow you to take them-- or offer you a job if you need them.

So before you run your mouth about them being "Rent-A-Cops" on Steroids...
These guys left the MOST elite units in the US Army, Navy, and Marine Corps to work for a corporation that provided a military lifestyle, but allowed them an income that men of their caliber and skill deserve. They're NOT evil, They don't want to shoot women and children, and they aren't out to murder people.

The reason why they don't lose men, and the State Department Officials that they protect don't end up dead -- Is because they are THE BEST at what they do.

[FLBMWMech]

bigLittleTim im right there with ya man! his ass is gettin shipped straight the fuk out! i wish he was getting sent to Guantanamo to get tortured n "waterboarded" and what not!!

Its a sad state that our middle schools are in.. Someone notify the truancy officer that Marsh67 is on the loose...

[uao85]

LOL ^^^so true so true...anyone listen to Rush??? Too bad He and Shawn Hannity dont run for Pres/vice pres. LOL talk about some pissed left wing nuts.

Remington

[spywizard]

LOL ^^^so true so true...anyone listen to Rush??? Too bad He and Shawn Hannity dont run for Pres/vice pres. LOL talk about some pissed left wing nuts.

Remington

careful this doesn't become a political thread, it will get locked..

[VWbug66]

fuk the government, fuk bush and his administration, he is stripping the citizens of this countries rights, liberties, fukin everything, we're on our way to being a dictatorship..there's ten steps to turn a democracy into a dictatorship, and bush is already threw 5 steps!!!!! dont believe me?! do ur research as nebody on this site says!!! Bush allowed the law to call anybody an "enemey of combatant"...with that, they can strip ur first 6 amendments right away from you, ship u to Guantanamo cuba, hold you there for years, not allow u to speak to ur family or tell them where u are, and then they release you, and u take them to court, and they dont need evidence to show why the did what they did to you bc u were labelled as an enemy of combatant...its really fuked up!! not a lot of ppl know wtf is happening to this country!! fukin bush i swear to god..kill that fuker!

[Doc M]

fuk the government, fuk bush and his administration, he is stripping the citizens of this countries rights, liberties, fukin everything, we're on our way to being a dictatorship..there's ten steps to turn a democracy into a dictatorship, and bush is already threw 5 steps!!!!! dont believe me?! do ur research as nebody on this site says!!! Bush allowed the law to call anybody an "enemey of combatant"...with that, they can strip ur first 6 amendments right away from you, ship u to Guantanamo cuba, hold you there for years, not allow u to speak to ur family or tell them where u are, and then they release you, and u take them to court, and they dont need evidence to show why the did what they did to you bc u were labelled as an enemy of combatant...its really fuked up!! not a lot of ppl know wtf is happening to this country!! fukin bush i swear to god..kill that fuker!

marsh,

you have the right to your opinion, but give the "death" and "kill" comments to yourself. They really aren't needed to make your point.

p.s.- the Blackwater guys are not steroid, child shooting maniacs that could even be closely compared to Rent-a-Cops

Doc M

[thegodfather]

I wish half of the American population was more educated and could debate the issues with relevant information while refraining from advocating the assasination of a human being, regardless of the fact that he happens to be the President. If we haven't come far enough that we still need to 'lynch' peolpe because they dont agree with our ideals, then we haven't come very far at all. Something about human nature still being too closely aligned with animals I believe....

Blackwater is a great corporation and performs a great service for the United States government. I seriously question anyone, who will benefit from their services and the freedoms they provide, yet will question the means by which they provide those services and freedoms. Additionally, the employees of that corporation are exempt from US law, and therefore, if they want to shoot steroids, their only limitation is the companys own employee policy, and possibly the laws of the land which they are currently on.

Lets be honest here. This news report comes out of peoples own moral problems with Blackwater. They are a corporation whos mainstay is basically, when it comes down to it, killing for profit. That may sit uneasy with the liberals and religious zealouts in this country, hence the smear campaign being launched against Blackwater. I believe they provide an invaluable service, and it does not bother me in the least that they profit from the death of our enemy's, more power to them actually, where do I send my donation?

Also, BigLittleTim mentioned something about "shooting the kids." In many instances, our enemies in Iraq do use children to assault our soldiers, and I do not see what the argument is against shooting children? If they are armed, and in a position to kill you, well then I think thats a rather simple choice as to what you should do. I see no reason an American soldier/contractor should not return home to his family because the person on the other end of the gun was 13 years old.

[VWbug66]

ya ur right Doc M, i was just a lil to fired up

[gixxerboy1]

I wish half of the American population was more educated and could debate the issues with relevant information while refraining from advocating the assasination of a human being, regardless of the fact that he happens to be the President. If we haven't come far enough that we still need to 'lynch' peolpe because they dont agree with our ideals, then we haven't come very far at all. Something about human nature still being too closely aligned with animals I believe....

Blackwater is a great corporation and performs a great service for the United States government. I seriously question anyone, who will benefit from their services and the freedoms they provide, yet will question the means by which they provide those services and freedoms. Additionally, the employees of that corporation are exempt from US law, and therefore, if they want to shoot steroids, their only limitation is the companys own employee policy, and possibly the laws of the land which they are currently on.

Lets be honest here. This news report comes out of peoples own moral problems with Blackwater. They are a corporation whos mainstay is basically, when it comes down to it, killing for profit. That may sit uneasy with the liberals and religious zealouts in this country, hence the smear campaign being launched against Blackwater. I believe they provide an invaluable service, and it does not bother me in the least that they profit from the death of our enemy's, more power to them actually, where do I send my donation?

Also, BigLittleTim mentioned something about "shooting the kids." In many instances, our enemies in Iraq do use children to assault our soldiers, and I do not see what the argument is against shooting children? If they are armed, and in a position to kill you, well then I think thats a rather simple choice as to what you should do. I see no reason an American soldier/contractor should not return home to his family because the person on the other end of the gun was 13 years old.

another great post

[VWbug66]

BigLittleTim said how blackwater shoots women and children..Blackwater has shot n killed innocent un-armed civilians. and we're paying them to do the same damn thing the soldiers are there to do, and we're paying them outta the ying-yang! they might be a good corp if they didnt kill inocent civilians..i swear to god they run around pointin theyre r***es around as a redneck would when he got his 1st real gun..like when katrina hit, they were there, one of my friends family was walking miles and miles when blackwater showed up n were pointing they're assualt r***es at them and lau***ng, they're boss saw it and yelled at them to put they're ****in guns down! they were calling them stupid ******s n shit!! now thats fuked up shit..and we're paying for those stupid fuks..

[gixxerboy1]

BigLittleTim said how blackwater shoots women and children..Blackwater has shot n killed innocent un-armed civilians. and we're paying them to do the same damn thing the soldiers are there to do, and we're paying them outta the ying-yang! they might be a good corp if they didnt kill inocent civilians..i swear to god they run around pointin theyre r***es around as a redneck would when he got his 1st real gun..like when katrina hit, they were there, one of my friends family was walking miles and miles when blackwater showed up n were pointing they're assualt r***es at them and lau***ng, they're boss saw it and yelled at them to put they're ****in guns down! they were calling them stupid ******s n shit!! now thats fuked up shit..and we're paying for those stupid fuks..

I highly doubt they are walking around shooting innocent women and kids. Do accident happen yes. But purposely doing i doubt. And if a woman or kid has a gun they are fair game in my book. And if i'm in a war zone I'd have my r***e up and ready at all times too.

[BigLittleTim]

"They absolutely prohibit steroids or narcotics (they test for both). They also significantly review any Dr. prescriptions, especially for psychological medications IE Xanax, Ridilin, Adavan, etc.. They won't allow you to take them-- or offer you a job if you need them."
-FLBMWMech

versus...

"Additionally, the employees of that corporation are exempt from US law, and therefore, if they want to shoot steroids, their only limitation is the companys own employee policy, and possibly the laws of the land which they are currently on."
-thegodfather

It seems more than a few guys actually admire Blackwater soldiers' video-game-like, bad-ass reputation: pumped up on steroids, Rambo-like training, "men who are Ranger, SF, Seal, Marine Recon, or Delta qualified", bonding with the boys in the hotel bar...

I wish more fellas would put down the kill-game joysticks and pick up some books on the Constitution, the Founding Fathers, and what used to be called the American Republic.

-BigLittleTim

P.S. They actually make you move to Moyock, NC for three weeks!? Isn't that against the Geneva Convention?

[BigLittleTim]

I highly doubt they are walking around shooting innocent women and kids. Do accident happen yes. But purposely doing i doubt. And if a woman or kid has a gun they are fair game in my book. And if i'm in a war zone I'd have my r***e up and ready at all times too.

Which brings us back to the elephant in the living room, gentlemen...

Why are we in Iraq, anyway?

-BigLittleTim

[BigLittleTim]

"refrain... from advocating the assasination of a human being, regardless of the fact that he happens to be the President. If we haven't come far enough that we still need to 'lynch' peolpe because they dont agree with our ideals."
-thegodfather

"Blackwater is a great corporation... They are a corporation whos mainstay is... killing for profit. I believe they provide an invaluable service, and it does not bother me in the least that they profit from the death of our enemy's... I do not see what the argument is against shooting children. If they are armed, and in a position to kill you, well then I think thats a rather simple choice as to what you should do."
-thegodfather


I agree. One should never advocate the murder of a human being simply because they don't agree with our "ideals". Of course, I am a liberal, although not yet a religious zealouts (sic). I would even advocate extending this compassionate abstention from "lynching" those with whom we disagree to people who do not also happen to be sitting United States Presidents. Perhaps someone in the current Administration will join me in that sentiment.

-BigLittleTim

[uao85]

careful this doesn't become a political thread, it will get locked..

sry bout that, didnt mean for it to take that turn.

fuk the government, fuk bush and his administration, he is stripping the citizens of this countries rights, liberties, fukin everything, we're on our way to being a dictatorship..there's ten steps to turn a democracy into a dictatorship, and bush is already threw 5 steps!!!!! dont believe me?! do ur research as nebody on this site says!!! Bush allowed the law to call anybody an "enemey of combatant"...with that, they can strip ur first 6 amendments right away from you, ship u to Guantanamo cuba, hold you there for years, not allow u to speak to ur family or tell them where u are, and then they release you, and u take them to court, and they dont need evidence to show why the did what they did to you bc u were labelled as an enemy of combatant...its really fuked up!! not a lot of ppl know wtf is happening to this country!! fukin bush i swear to god..kill that fuker!

Hey Marsh, tell us how you really feel...seriously. You need to educate yourself. You know, as poor of an speaker as he is, his knowledge and wisdom would run circles around your monkey ass. Last time I checked, he graduated from Yale...that sounds pretty tough, are you even old enough to go to college yet? Who time and time again has tried to introduce and pass legislation for gun control as as well as to outlaw ammunition...Last time I checked that was guarenteed to use in the constitution. Hmm what else...who voted in favor of going to Iraq in the first place, but as soon as the media made it look like a crapshoot, flip flopped and instantly went on the lib offensive bashing the commander and chief of our armed forces for their own political gain??...Who disrespected himself and his fellow soldiers when he threw down his war metals and spit on them and denounced his fellow soldiers...Who screams for change...but never gives any actual plan on what will be done? Hmm interesting very interesting. Who is advocating nationlized healthcare(cough** cough** socialist....)...Just another example of people wanting something for nothing. Sure Bush isnt perfect, sure things could have been handled differently, but when it comes down to it, he will get it done. One thing I wholeheartedly disagree with though is his stance on immigration... Talk about a slap in the face of America.

Spywizard, again not meaning to get political, but hasnt this thread been politically charged from the start. I apologize for the left comment, but common, talking about assasinating our pres...not even funny to joke about. Hey marsh, you might get that pass to guantanimo your talking about after all...LOL. Tool.

[thegodfather]

BigLittleTim said how blackwater shoots women and children..Blackwater has shot n killed innocent un-armed civilians. and we're paying them to do the same damn thing the soldiers are there to do, and we're paying them outta the ying-yang!

They have shot women and children. Have you ever been in a battle zone before? I certainly haven't, which would preclude me from being able to pass judgement on such individuals on the kind of events that could possibly transpire in such situations. Ever heard people say "the fog of war," that means a lot of next level shit goes down and accidents happen, collateral damage, innocents get killed. I dont agree with our presence in Iraq AT ALL, but I would never pass judgement on soliders (enlisted or contractors regardless) who are there doing their job, under directive from the President, and then have the nerve to question the tactics they employ from a situation they are forced/and or paid to be in.

Anyway onto BigLittleTim....Im not really making the connection between employing Blackwater in Iraq and what the Constitution, Founding Fathers, and the American public has to do with that? I could voice my discontent with Bush all day long, but that isn't the point of this thread afterall...

[SL63]

When are they going to stop using steroids as a scaregoat for everything that goes wrong with someone using it!!@#$% There is millions of users functioning normally in society, you get one guy who kills his family and everyone points their finger at gear!

[FLBMWMech]

"They absolutely prohibit steroids or narcotics (they test for both). They also significantly review any Dr. prescriptions, especially for psychological medications IE Xanax, Ridilin, Adavan, etc.. They won't allow you to take them-- or offer you a job if you need them."
-FLBMWMech

versus...

"Additionally, the employees of that corporation are exempt from US law, and therefore, if they want to shoot steroids, their only limitation is the companys own employee policy, and possibly the laws of the land which they are currently on."
-thegodfather

It seems more than a few guys actually admire Blackwater soldiers' video-game-like, bad-ass reputation: pumped up on steroids, Rambo-like training, "men who are Ranger, SF, Seal, Marine Recon, or Delta qualified", bonding with the boys in the hotel bar...

I wish more fellas would put down the kill-game joysticks and pick up some books on the Constitution, the Founding Fathers, and what used to be called the American Republic.

-BigLittleTim

P.S. They actually make you move to Moyock, NC for three weeks!? Isn't that against the Geneva Convention?

Amazingly yes-- You aren't even extended a job offer until after they observe you during training for 3 weeks in Moyock. They also told both of my friends to "Be ready to deploy immediately after training". While they both actually left much later-- they were told they could be offered a position that required them to leave immediately.

[VWbug66]

uao85
i am educated, buddy, its just really fuked up how the government is slowly taking our rights away from us "for security reasons". Everybody needs to read this book: The End of America- To a Young Patriot by Naomi Wolf. its not that long. I strongly advise everybody to read this.

uao85
im not coming down on anybody and actin like a lil bitch calling ppl tools n shit, serisouly dude u tryin to start an internet fight like ppl do when they're in 6th grade...they have other boards for that shit go get on those buddy..

[uao85]

uao85
i am educated, buddy, its just really fuked up how the government is slowly taking our rights away from us "for security reasons". Everybody needs to read this book: The End of America- To a Young Patriot by Naomi Wolf. its not that long. I strongly advise everybody to read this.

uao85
im not coming down on anybody and actin like a lil bitch calling ppl tools n shit, serisouly dude u tryin to start an internet fight like ppl do when they're in 6th grade...they have other boards for that shit go get on those buddy..

oh common now, didnt mean to piss in your cheerios... Thank you for toning down the hostility, makes for much more pleasant reading. All I really did was give a strong opposing viewpoint about your point on rights being stripped away from us citizens. I also said that alot of upcoming and popular politicians have amendments and laws in mind that will blow your mind--if your constitutional rights are important to you. Also...I thought tools were neat and utilitarian??? no? Heck I love tools, and have a toolbox full of them in my garage and even use them quite frequently. still no? well sorry then, I felt and still do feel that spouting off about Bush(insert any politician by name here)..f-this....f-that...stupid SOB will teach him to walk a &(&^$# is so unneccesary, childish, and immature. Who cares. But if you had said all that with tact, patience, understanding, as well as a rebuttal for an opposing viewpoint, then it will be welcomed much more so by those looking for answers to their questions, and will make you look damn smart in the process...even online. I will have to give that book a read, havent heard of it before but I will check it oot.<<I am practicing my canadian accent.

Remington

[uao85]

Hey Marsh, do you live in Austin??
Thats what I would place my bet on if I were to guess. Just curious.
If you do, we can still be buds.


Remington

[Z12]

sry bout that, didnt mean for it to take that turn.



Hey Marsh, tell us how you really feel...seriously. You need to educate yourself. You know, as poor of an speaker as he is, his knowledge and wisdom would run circles around your monkey ass. Last time I checked, he graduated from Yale...that sounds pretty tough, are you even old enough to go to college yet? Who time and time again has tried to introduce and pass legislation for gun control as as well as to outlaw ammunition...Last time I checked that was guarenteed to use in the constitution. Hmm what else...who voted in favor of going to Iraq in the first place, but as soon as the media made it look like a crapshoot, flip flopped and instantly went on the lib offensive bashing the commander and chief of our armed forces for their own political gain??...Who disrespected himself and his fellow soldiers when he threw down his war metals and spit on them and denounced his fellow soldiers...Who screams for change...but never gives any actual plan on what will be done? Hmm interesting very interesting. Who is advocating nationlized healthcare(cough** cough** socialist....)...Just another example of people wanting something for nothing. Sure Bush isnt perfect, sure things could have been handled differently, but when it comes down to it, he will get it done. One thing I wholeheartedly disagree with though is his stance on immigration... Talk about a slap in the face of America.

Spywizard, again not meaning to get political, but hasnt this thread been politically charged from the start. I apologize for the left comment, but common, talking about assasinating our pres...not even funny to joke about. Hey marsh, you might get that pass to guantanimo your talking about after all...LOL. Tool.

1) Bush senior also went to Yale..... It helps when daddy pulls strings for you

2) I am sick and f-ing tired of this conservative arument that the dems voted for the war and are now reversing their opinion and are therefore "flip-floppers." Lets not forget that all of our leaders that voted to go to war did so under false pretences. Remember dumb ass Colin Powel explaining the mobile biological weapons factories and all the pictures he showed? Remember all of the inteligence he cited that was supposedley reliable and has since been proven that their MAIN intelligence sources was getting rich by telling americans whatever they wanted to hear... making shit up? Remember those metal tubes/pipes that were supposedly for nuclear warheads? Where are the WMD's we were all promised? In fact, name one piece of evidence over the entire course of this war that supports the idea that Saddam Hussein was a threat to the American people??? Of course dems are going to be pissed that they authorized the president proceed with such disasterous plans. Of course they are going to complain about being misled. Wouldn't you?

[gixxerboy1]

1) Bush senior also went to Yale..... It helps when daddy pulls strings for you

2) I am sick and f-ing tired of this conservative arument that the dems voted for the war and are now reversing their opinion and are therefore "flip-floppers." Lets not forget that all of our leaders that voted to go to war did so under false pretences. Remember dumb ass Colin Powel explaining the mobile biological weapons factories and all the pictures he showed? Remember all of the inteligence he cited that was supposedley reliable and has since been proven that their MAIN intelligence sources was getting rich by telling americans whatever they wanted to hear... making shit up? Remember those metal tubes/pipes that were supposedly for nuclear warheads? Where are the WMD's we were all promised? In fact, name one piece of evidence over the entire course of this war that supports the idea that Saddam Hussein was a threat to the American people??? Of course dems are going to be pissed that they authorized the president proceed with such disasterous plans. Of course they are going to complain about being misled. Wouldn't you?

I agree this not flip flopping. Changing your mind when you learn new information is what keeps you moving forward. You have to be willing to change or make changes to keep moving forward. Staying with the same plan or ideas just because they were your first instinct gets you no where.

[uao85]

something I found after searching for 30 seconds...

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=38213

some more

http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/me...sprj.irq.labs/

oh snaps...

[Z12]

something I found after searching for 30 seconds...

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=38213

some more

http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/me...sprj.irq.labs/

oh snaps...

That worldnetdaily website is a joke! Just look at the sponsorer's banners - one is Zion oil company - "exploring for oil for Israel." Another says something about a terrorist attack on a church and an "armed christian" shooting back! WTF is that? That's as right wing a website as I have ever seen. I'm sure they are an impartial source of information The cnn article on the other hand is more interesting. But seee below:


On March 7, Blix told the U.N. Security Council, "Several inspections have taken place at declared and undeclared sites in relation to mobile production facilities. Food-testing mobile laboratories and mobile workshops have been seen, as well as large containers with seed-processing equipment. No evidence of proscribed activities have so far been found."


SO yes, they've found mobile labs that fit the description of Colin Powel, but seem to be used for other purposes and haven't been able to prove they were for weapons production. IMHO, all that this cnn article cites is circumstantial evidence.

[VWbug66]

ua085..i agree with what u said of how to say it a lil better n not so much like fuk this fuk that, i agree with ya on that, i could've said better...im bout 4 hours north of you..

[uao85]

That worldnetdaily website is a joke! Just look at the sponsorer's banners - one is Zion oil company - "exploring for oil for Israel." Another says something about a terrorist attack on a church and an "armed christian" shooting back! WTF is that? That's as right wing a website as I have ever seen. I'm sure they are an impartial source of information The cnn article on the other hand is more interesting. But seee below:


On March 7, Blix told the U.N. Security Council, "Several inspections have taken place at declared and undeclared sites in relation to mobile production facilities. Food-testing mobile laboratories and mobile workshops have been seen, as well as large containers with seed-processing equipment. No evidence of proscribed activities have so far been found."


SO yes, they've found mobile labs that fit the description of Colin Powel, but seem to be used for other purposes and haven't been able to prove they were for weapons production. IMHO, all that this cnn article cites is circumstantial evidence.

The article DOES read that its circumstantial one way or another as far as physical evidence, but it stated in the article that there was a mountain of paperwork with these sites that discussed the processing and manufacturing of biological and chemical weapons. I can read, and so can everyone else. You asked for 1 example, I gave you 2. Also I will admit that those facilities very well could be mobile food manufacturing or processing stations, but if they were, why wouldnt Sadam allow the UN to inspect those facilities before all this went down??? Much less even admit there existence? He had nothing to lose or nothing to fear from the UN...nothing whatsoever, this went on for a decade since the Gulf War of him *****footing around avoiding anything and everything conerning his affairs. Thats like pointing a black squirt gun at a state trooper when you get pulled over. Regarding the articles...came up on yahoo, and EITHER one of those is an infraction of the U.N. security council resolution.


So Marsh your a DFW fellow or maybe Sherman or Mckinney??? cool cool, I grew up around Duncanville.

[VWbug66]

im in the df dub area.. i rep the cowboys n mavs with pride