israel and the white phosphorus use....guilty or not guilty

[Dinosaur]

cnn news confirms that israel has indeed used a deadly weapon known as white phosphorus, yet they got away with it.
i don't have a prejudice against no side here, just standing for the truth that's all. if you want to comment, please do but, with respect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQWl_uQKxOI

[amcon]

i am almost sure the un reviewed taps and said it was used appropriatly - is banned, how ever it can be used in certain ways...

seems like something to stay away from tho

[gator_mclusky]

I feel for the civilians but Hamas is an evil organization and Israel got sick and tired of them lobbing rockets into their neighborhoods after giving the Palestinians the Gaza Strip. The Palestinians get their land and the thanks Israel gets are rockets in their backyards!

gator

[Dinosaur]

^^^ you know i've been following this story very closely and to be honest the problem this time was not hamas. hamas was only a card they used to attack gaza.

they tried to collaborate with the fatah party in order to eliminate the hamas party cause it was standing in middle of the way like a pebble in the throat. that could not be swollowed so the only way to wipe them out was to cook up a story, and see if that is ganna win the hearts and minds of people to strike this small town. of course it worked but not for long. what a good timing they chose, it was the best ever.
i just can't stand the killing of innocent people what ever the circumstances are.
if you have something against them then invite them to an open place and use whatever dirty weapon you want to use. cause excessive force will only beget excessive hate.

[JiGGaMaN]

cnn news confirms that israel has indeed used a deadly weapon known as white phosphorus, yet they got away with it.
i don't have a prejudice against no side here, just standing for the truth that's all. if you want to comment, please do but, with respect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQWl_uQKxOI

sigh, by virtue of your name you are biased. dont think that bullshit will slip by me:

Chariff = a sunni muslim name
Hamas ideology = sunni muslim

hmmm, any conflict of interest here??? no? lets look a little further into theory of prejudice:
Terror management theory (nothing to do with terrorism)

Solomon, Greenberg and Pyszczynski (1999) in their terror management theory proposed that people have a need for self-preservation which is raised and frustrated by their awareness of the inevitability of their own death. To deal with their mortality, people adopt a cultural world view that imbues subjective reality with stability and permanence and provides standards of value against which judgments of self-esteem can be made. According to Terror management theory, people evaluate in-group members positively because similar others are assumed to support, and therefore validate, their own cultural world view; in contrast, they evaluate out-group members negatively because dissimilar others are assumed to threaten their world view. There is extensive evidence that people show greater intergroup bias when they are made aware of their own mortality (Florian & Mikulincer, 1998).

[BuffedGuy]

Jiggaman and other pro-Israeli supporters: I am going to ask you a question that I hope you can answer honestly. Just for once I want an honest answer. Let's say that Hamas used white phosphorous on Israeli territory. Do you think that you would be defending its usage then, or would you automatically start using that as a proof for invading Hamas held territory? Please show some honesty when answering.

[BuffedGuy]

sigh, by virtue of your name you are biased. dont think that bullshit will slip by me:

Chariff = a sunni muslim name
Hamas ideology = sunni muslim

hmmm, any conflict of interest here??? no? l

Yeah, and you're Jewish. See how almost everything you say can be used against you? Almost *all* of the arguments you have furthered on this forum about Israel can be reversed. You just don't see it. But anyways, please answer my above question about if Hamas used white phosphorous. Please don't ignore the question because I have a nagging suspicion that you will try to evade the question.

[BuffedGuy]

I feel for the civilians but Hamas is an evil organization and Israel got sick and tired of them lobbing rockets into their neighborhoods after giving the Palestinians the Gaza Strip. The Palestinians get their land and the thanks Israel gets are rockets in their backyards!

gator

The IDF is more of an evil organization. I don't know why so few people know this (well, obviously because of the media) but the IDF was formed from Jewish terrorist groups like the Haganah, Stern Gang, Lehi, and Irgun. They were literally terrorist groups that blew up buildings full of civilians. The Irgun, with the sanction of Haganah, blew up the King David Hotel by placing a bomb in the basement; almost 100 people were killed. These were British people they killed, not us third class Muslims.

This is the history of where the IDF comes from, and the legacy they continue to this day. They now just have better weapons, so they don't need to use such tactics. They can drop bombs from the skies and fire missiles into peoples' homes from apache helicopters.

You know, you talk about how the Israelis were sick of being attacked with rockets. It's so horribly one-sided of you: aren't the Palestinian people sick of their houses being torpedoed by apache helicopters? Can you imagine waking up one day and seeing an apache helicopter outside your window firing rockets inside your home? I mean, what kind of a people do such things?! Aren't the Palestinian people sick of their homes being bull-dozed down? What kind of tyrannical people use bulldozers to destroy the homes of the natives? Imagine if someone bull-dozed your house down. I don't think you ever imagine this, because unfortunately to many Westerners we Muslims are not people.

[Dinosaur]

sigh, by virtue of your name you are biased. dont think that bullshit will slip by me:

it is very ironic of you to talk about my name and forget the real subject you need to talk about.

wether iam muslim or not that's not the issue, unless you have something against muslims. this is ridiculous comment to make.

iam not afraid in any shape or form from no one to hide my identity iam very proud of my name. in matter of fact, the name i use in this site is the same name of my e-mail, just reminder.

you always missread my posts nothing unusual here. if you remember reading my post i clearly said you can comment but with respect. if not, i don't need your comment keep it to your self.

now to put me under that equetion of yours by saying:

chariff = a sunni name. by the way its charrif not charrif.

i could return fire with fire by saying this:

jiggaman= zionist jew

zionist ideology= zionist jew.

lets not get there, i don't state anything from my own mind i speak what i see if you can refute what i said please bring your prove or else be my guest.

Solomon, Greenberg and Pyszczynski (1999) in their terror management theory proposed that people have a need for self-preservation which is raised and frustrated by their awareness of the inevitability of their own death. To deal with their mortality, people adopt a cultural world view that imbues subjective reality with stability and permanence and provides standards of value against which judgments of self-esteem can be made. According to Terror management theory, people evaluate in-group members positively because similar others are assumed to support, and therefore validate, their own cultural world view; in contrast, they evaluate out-group members negatively because dissimilar others are assumed to threaten their world view. There is extensive evidence that people show greater intergroup bias when they are made aware of their own mortality (Florian & Mikulincer, 1998).

don't get off the subject by bringing a quotation of your extremist book writers. bring me something of your own. you always seem to dodge the subject and talk about irrelevant stuff that has nothing to do with subject waht so ever.
i will be waiting for your reply. eventhough, i know that you are not ganna bring anything new.

[amcon]

Jiggaman and other pro-Israeli supporters: I am going to ask you a question that I hope you can answer honestly. Just for once I want an honest answer. Let's say that Hamas used white phosphorous on Israeli territory. Do you think that you would be defending its usage then, or would you automatically start using that as a proof for invading Hamas held territory? Please show some honesty when answering.

un said it was used with in the guidlines... from videos of its dispursement

[amcon]

Yeah, and you're Jewish. See how almost everything you say can be used against you? Almost *all* of the arguments you have furthered on this forum about Israel can be reversed. You just don't see it. But anyways, please answer my above question about if Hamas used white phosphorous. Please don't ignore the question because I have a nagging suspicion that you will try to evade the question.

jiggaman is a jewish name?

[amcon]

it is very ironic of you to talk about my name and forget the real subject you need to talk about.

wether iam muslim or not that's not the issue, unless you have something against muslims. this is ridiculous comment to make.

iam not afraid in any shape or form from no one to hide my identity iam very proud of my name. in matter of fact, the name i use in this site is the same name of my e-mail, just reminder.

you always missread my posts nothing unusual here. if you remember reading my post i clearly said you can comment but with respect. if not, i don't need your comment keep it to your self.

now to put me under that equetion of yours by saying:

chariff = a sunni name. by the way its charrif not charrif.

i could return fire with fire by saying this:

jiggaman= zionist jew

zionist ideology= zionist jew.

lets not get there, i don't state anything from my own mind i speak what i see if you can refute what i said please bring your prove or else be my guest.





don't get off the subject by bringing a quotation of your extremist book writers. bring me something of your own. you always seem to dodge the subject and talk about irrelevant stuff that has nothing to do with subject waht so ever.
i will be waiting for your reply. eventhough, i know that you are not ganna bring anything new.

the only point he was making was is you maybe a little one sided - you said you wernt

[Dinosaur]

un said it was used with in the guidlines... from videos of its dispursement

so i might conclude that those people were burnt within the giudlines.

[*RAGE*]

Jiggaman and other pro-Israeli supporters: I am not a complet pro Israeli suppoterI am going to ask you a question that I hope you can answer honestly. Just for once I want an honest answer. I dont understand what an honest answer is unless it agree with what you sayLet's say that Hamas used white phosphorous on Israeli territory. White phosphorous is in several weapons, but it does not just kill all boombs kill no matter what cause it so you can not say what if Hamas uses white phosphorous because the gun powder in the there rocket kill just the same.Do you think that you would be defending its usage then, or would you automatically start using that as a proof for invading Hamas held territory? Hamas does not have territory, Hamas is a terrious group Palistinian has territoryPlease show some honesty when answering.

one more thing phosphorous kill people and burns people. rockets fired by Hamas kill people and burns people just the same. no mater what is in the rocket you are just as dead.

[amcon]

so i might conclude that those people were burnt within the giudlines.

dude i didnt follow it past what the un said... i would have to believe that they are def not pro israel, at least to the point of letting them use that stuff the wrong way.

[Dinosaur]

the only point he was making was is you maybe a little one sided - you said you wernt

no, with all due respect to your opinion he has this problem with me since. well, today i figured why he has this rage against me simply because of my name.
also today i came to find out that the boy is a jew.

[amcon]

one more thing phosphorous kill people and burns people. rockets fired by Hamas kill people and burns people just the same. no mater what is in the rocket you are just as dead.

very good point,

[amcon]

dont justify either side, cause both are wrong (we all should agree on that) but one def will stop the other...

did israel pull out and give the land back?

[amcon]

no, with all due respect to your opinion he has this problem with me since. well, today i figured why he has this rage against me simply because of my name.
also today i came to find out that the boy is a jew.

im not a jew, but i dont side with hamas... and i do think israel is wrong to kill people if it were unjustified

is defending your self justified...

[gator_mclusky]

The IDF is more of an evil organization. I don't know why so few people know this (well, obviously because of the media) but the IDF was formed from Jewish terrorist groups like the Haganah, Stern Gang, Lehi, and Irgun. They were literally terrorist groups that blew up buildings full of civilians. The Irgun, with the sanction of Haganah, blew up the King David Hotel by placing a bomb in the basement; almost 100 people were killed. These were British people they killed, not us third class Muslims.

This is the history of where the IDF comes from, and the legacy they continue to this day. They now just have better weapons, so they don't need to use such tactics. They can drop bombs from the skies and fire missiles into peoples' homes from apache helicopters.

You know, you talk about how the Israelis were sick of being attacked with rockets. It's so horribly one-sided of you: aren't the Palestinian people sick of their houses being torpedoed by apache helicopters? Can you imagine waking up one day and seeing an apache helicopter outside your window firing rockets inside your home? I mean, what kind of a people do such things?! Aren't the Palestinian people sick of their homes being bull-dozed down? What kind of tyrannical people use bulldozers to destroy the homes of the natives? Imagine if someone bull-dozed your house down. I don't think you ever imagine this, because unfortunately to many Westerners we Muslims are not people.

The Palestinians ELECTED Hamas. They elected a Terrorist group that hides out in Schools and Mosque and rocket Israel.

Israel is our strongest ally and Nuclear deterrent in the Middle East. Without them....Iran would control the Middle East.

The Palestinians burn our Flag and hate us even after we funnel millions and millions of dollars to them and convince Israel to give up the Gaza Strip and Israel gets rockets shot their way in return.

Israel made a statement and if Hamas has any intelligence.....they will back off and let the Israelis live in peace.

Respectively,

Gator

[amcon]

The Palestinians ELECTED Hamas. They elected a Terrorist group that hides out in Schools and Mosque and rocket Israel.

Israel is our strongest ally and Nuclear deterrent in the Middle East. Without them....Iran would control the Middle East.

The Palestinians burn our Flag and hate us even after we funnel millions and millions of dollars to them and convince Israel to give up the Gaza Strip and Israel gets rockets shot their way in return.

Israel made a statement and if Hamas has any intelligence.....they will back off and let the Israelis live in peace.

Respectively,


Gator

good point again, that makes all the sence to me

[*RAGE*]

The Palestinians ELECTED Hamas. They elected a Terrorist group that hides out in Schools and Mosque and rocket Israel.

Israel is our strongest ally and Nuclear deterrent in the Middle East. Without them....Iran would control the Middle East.

The Palestinians burn our Flag and hate us even after we funnel millions and millions of dollars to them and convince Israel to give up the Gaza Strip and Israel gets rockets shot their way in return.

Israel made a statement and if Hamas has any intelligence.....they will back off and let the Israelis live in peace.

Respectively,

Gator

Yes great post and great point thank you

[BuffedGuy]

I love how you guys claim to be "neutral" when you are anything but. "Oh we're for neither side, but Israel is always right and Palestinians are always wrong!"

[BuffedGuy]

The Palestinians ELECTED Hamas. They elected a Terrorist group that hides out in Schools and Mosque and rocket Israel.

You ignored what I said. The IDF is a terrorist group as well, and all Israelis (minus those with exemptions) are supposed to serve in it. The IDF was formed from the Haganah, and joined by the Stern Gang, Lehi, and Irgun...all of which were terrorist groups in the real sense of the word.

Israel is our strongest ally and Nuclear deterrent in the Middle East. Without them....Iran would control the Middle East.

Is it not strange that you guys have a problem with Middle Easterners controlling the Middle East, lol? America controls America. Shouldn't Middle Easterners control the Middle East?

As for Iran, no, it wouldn't have controlled the Middle East. Iraq was much more powerful than Iran, until America destroyed it.

The Palestinians burn our Flag and hate us even after we funnel millions and millions of dollars to them and convince Israel to give up the Gaza Strip and Israel gets rockets shot their way in return.

Why shouldn't they burn the American flag? The Americans pay billions of dollars to Israel, and give billions of dollars in military weaponry to Israel. The missiles that land on Palestinian heads say "made in the USA". As for giving millions and millions of dollars to Palestine, this is an outright lie: US law prohibits giving aid to the Palestinian government. The United States not only does not give money, but it freezes accounts and forbids other nations from sending money. So again, thank you very much.

As for giving up the Gaza strip, last time I checked the Gaza strip is still not an independent country. Instead, it's a reservation, surrounded on all sides by an Israeli blockade, and starved to death. So thank you very much!

Israel made a statement and if Hamas has any intelligence.....they will back off and let the Israelis live in peace.

During the ceasefire, no Hamas rockets were fired and Israel was living in peace. As soon as Israel broke the ceasefire and attacked Gaza, Hamas started launching rockets again.

So understand this: peace does not come from war. Peace comes from peace.

[Dinosaur]

im not a jew, but i dont side with hamas... and i do think israel is wrong to kill people if it were unjustified

is defending your self justified...

i hear you, the question should be? under what circumstances are you defending your self?
my concern is why the excessive force? i completely understand the self defence mechanism but don't use the ideology of kill one to warn hundred.
i have no problem against no nation i just want to see everybody living in peace but to do that it takes genuine intentions.
i know that this conflict has been going on for years, and we can go on and on but that's not my point, my point is to show any nation or contry no matter their mistakes so they can learn from it by correcting it, by teaching their people to leave in peace, by standing up for the right thing even if its ganna be against my own govenment.

[BuffedGuy]

Amnesty International says that there is:

"indisputable evidence of widespread use of white phosphorus in densely-populated residential areas in Gaza City...Israel's use during the Gaza offensive of white phosphorus-— banned under international law for use near civilians—-was 'clear and undeniable'...Its repeated use in this manner, despite evidence of its indiscriminate effects and its toll on civilians, is a war crime."

http://www.nowpublic.com/world/israe...niable-amnesty

[BuffedGuy]

Since the pro-Israeli party could not answer the question I asked about if Hamas used white phosphorous, I would like to ask another question:

You say that "Israel was making a point" and now "maybe Hamas won't fire rockets". So you are saying that killing indiscriminately to make a point is ok. What is the difference between this and Al-Qaeda's methodology? Usama bin Ladin has *specifically* said that he will keep killing Americans indiscriminately until they "get the point" and "stop killing Muslims indiscriminately." So what is the difference between your pro-Israeli view and Al-Qaeda's view?

How on earth is it ok to kill indiscriminately to make a point? That's terrorism, LITERALLY.

[Dinosaur]

good point again, that makes all the sence to me

i thought you said you are not one sided.

so just because they are an ally to america it gives them the right to "denfend " them selves with whatever weapon that can do the job.

[BuffedGuy]

i thought you said you are not one sided.

so just because they are an ally to america it gives them the right to "denfend " them selves with whatever weapon that can do the job.

Literally *anything* they do is defense.

[Matt]

The Palestinians ELECTED Hamas. They elected a Terrorist group that hides out in Schools and Mosque and rocket Israel.

Israel is our strongest ally and Nuclear deterrent in the Middle East. Without them....Iran would control the Middle East.

The Palestinians burn our Flag and hate us even after we funnel millions and millions of dollars to them and convince Israel to give up the Gaza Strip and Israel gets rockets shot their way in return.

Israel made a statement and if Hamas has any intelligence.....they will back off and let the Israelis live in peace.

Respectively,

Gator

You do not know what you are talking about, if i was you id go and educate myself before making any more stupid posts...

[Matt]

im not a jew, but i dont side with hamas... and i do think israel is wrong to kill people if it were unjustified

is defending your self justified...

Why is it ok for israel to defend themselves against Hamas but its not ok for Hamas to defend themselves...

[Matt]

dont justify either side, cause both are wrong (we all should agree on that) but one def will stop the other...

did israel pull out and give the land back?

This is where you fall down amcon, read UN resolution 242...

[Matt]

one more thing phosphorous kill people and burns people. rockets fired by Hamas kill people and burns people just the same. no mater what is in the rocket you are just as dead.

Prone you know aswell as i do, and lets not beat about the bush, we used white phosphorous in the forces, to cause as much physical and brutal damage to anyone who gets anywhere near the stuff. If i was to fire phosphorous rockets anywhere near a populated area then i know im going to kill and seriously injure many innocent people bro.

[JiGGaMaN]

it is very ironic of you to talk about my name and forget the real subject you need to talk about.

wether iam muslim or not that's not the issue, unless you have something against muslims. this is ridiculous comment to make.

iam not afraid in any shape or form from no one to hide my identity iam very proud of my name. in matter of fact, the name i use in this site is the same name of my e-mail, just reminder.

you always missread my posts nothing unusual here. if you remember reading my post i clearly said you can comment but with respect. if not, i don't need your comment keep it to your self.

now to put me under that equetion of yours by saying:

chariff = a sunni name. by the way its charrif not charrif.

i could return fire with fire by saying this:

jiggaman= zionist jew

zionist ideology= zionist jew.

lets not get there, i don't state anything from my own mind i speak what i see if you can refute what i said please bring your prove or else be my guest.





don't get off the subject by bringing a quotation of your extremist book writers. bring me something of your own. you always seem to dodge the subject and talk about irrelevant stuff that has nothing to do with subject waht so ever.
i will be waiting for your reply. eventhough, i know that you are not ganna bring anything new.

I just wanted to point out to you the meaning of prejudice, and to show you that you are in fact prejudiced when you said you are not. I never said that didnt apply to myself. I used proper logic and reasoning to express my statement. It's apparent by your rebuttal that this is way over your head and a good waste of my time.

and to BuffedGuy, why would my opinion on a purely hypothetical situation have any real value to it?

[Panzerfaust]

I feel for the civilians but Hamas is an evil organization and Israel got sick and tired of them lobbing rockets into their neighborhoods after giving the Palestinians the Gaza Strip. The Palestinians get their land and the thanks Israel gets are rockets in their backyards!

gator

Congratulations!

You receive the "Most Ignorant ****" of the decade award.

Honest to god, you have no clue what you are even talking about. Please leave this thread. It is obvious you know nothing of the history behind these two and how this conflict came about.

You are either a troll or seriously one ignorant **** (as stated before).

[BuffedGuy]

and to BuffedGuy, why would my opinion on a purely hypothetical situation have any real value to it?

It has obvious significance that any rational person can understand. Again, I ask you: if Hamas had used white phosphorous, what would have been you reaction?

[Matt]

Congratulations!

You receive the "Most Ignorant ****" of the decade award.

Honest to god, you have no clue what you are even talking about. Please leave this thread. It is obvious you know nothing of the history behind these two and how this conflict came about.

You are either a troll or seriously one ignorant **** (as stated before).

Lol i missed that one, fuvk thats about the dumbest thing ive heard on this board. I said earlier he should educate himself, he's well beyond that...

[*RAGE*]

Prone you know aswell as i do, and lets not beat about the bush, we used white phosphorous in the forces, to cause as much physical and brutal damage to anyone who gets anywhere near the stuff. If i was to fire phosphorous rockets anywhere near a populated area then i know im going to kill and seriously injure many innocent people bro.

MAD MATT you are right as it does cause damage to where ever it is fired and I am not saying it should be used but all rockets cause damage to what ever they hit my point was dead is dead not matter what...I also need to change some other things I posted in this thread...

[*RAGE*]

Yes great post and great point thank you

I must step away from my statment here because I read though this to fast and did not comp..what was being said and will make some admins..

[*RAGE*]

OK, I want to say we are stuck on this white phosphorous and what it can do. White phosphorous is a chemical that burns no matter what and can not be put out buy water and dirt will not touch it either. I did not look this up and am only talking from personal experience...Isreal is using this kind of weapon agains Hamas and yes yet again innocent peope are getting killed and injuried. I know most of you after reading some of my post do not think that I care but this is not true. I do care, I have nothing agains any palestinian and some times when I write it sounds like I do. Hamas are not all palestinian in their ranks but you have Iraqi's Iran's and ect. fighting this war...Sorry got of track the crude bombs that Hamas, (not talking about palestinians) have chemicals that do the same thing as white phosphorous its just a chemical name. I am sure some one is going to look this up and tell me all the chemical names and I do not know what I am talking about and so on, but yet again I am talking from what I have seen.....Now Isreal is shooting these bombs at Hamas strong holds, where Hamas does not have the technology for money to do this so when they shot a rocket it is inshallah (god will) on where it lands...I am sure Hamas would like the boom or rocket hit a military target. What I am saying is what it is shrapnel gases of phosphorous that injuries you or kills you you are just as f up and no matter what you call it..ps buffedguy i am not trying to start another discussion with you.....JMO