Hamas is at it again

[*RAGE*]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...n8w&refer=home

Stop firing rockets and there might be a end to this....

[Matt]

There will never be an end, israel still has thier land, and the boarders are still locked down.. The people in Gaza are dieing, they might aswell fight..

[BuffedGuy]

A few relevant points from the same article you quoted.

First point:

Israel’s operation in Gaza, which left more than 1,300 Palestinians and 13 Israelis [soldiers]dead

source: same article you linked to

Of those, 50% were confirmed women and children:

Those 1,000-plus dead Gazans are broken down into percentages defined in terms of women and children and the rest. The earliest figures stated that about 25 per cent of Gaza's dead were women and children , and that has steadily climbed close to the 50 per cent mark since Israel's ground invasion got under way.

http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=5&gl=us

And here is a number to put that into perspective:

Israeli assault injures 1.5 million Gazans

http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=5&gl=us

One point five MILLION!

Second point:

Israel’s operation in Gaza...was said by the military to be aimed at stopping Hamas from firing rockets into Israeli territory. More than 30 rockets and mortar shells have been fired since Israel declared the [unilateral] cease-fire.

source: from the same article you linked to

Remember: all of you had justified the massive murder of Gazan civilians by saying that it was a-ok because it was the only way to stop rockets being fired at Israel. And was it not all of us who told you that no matter how massive Israel's response was, it could not stop the rocket attacks? Rather, the only way to stop the rocket attacks was through negotiating a peace treaty or mutual ceasefire? Do we not now see how the only few months in which no rockets were fired were when the two sides had agreed to a ceasefire, which Israel then broke?

If the rockets started up again so quickly, what was the point of murdering 1,000+ Palestinians?

Third point:

The rockets were fired by other than Hamas to begin with:

Responsibility for today’s attack on Ashkelon was claimed by a Gaza militant group affiliated with the Lebanese Shiite Muslim Hezbollah, which fought a monthlong war with Israel in 2006.

source: from the same article you linked to

Fourth point:

Those who fired the rocket gave the exact same reason for firing them as Israel gives for devastating Gaza:

“In a continuation of revenge for our people’s blood, members of our rockets unit today fired two rockets,” the group, the Brigades of Hezbollah in Palestine, said in a leaflet faxed to journalists.

source: from the same article you linked to

So Israel says it is retaliating for rocket attacks, and the militants say the exact same thing.

Fifth point:

The ceasefire was "unilateral", meaning Hamas was given no input on the matter. It is like me jumping you from behind, beating you up, raping you, and then just when you are about to retaliate, I say "ceasefire!" Having said that, Hamas did agree to a one-week ceasefire, which brings me to my sixth point.

Sixth point:

Gaza is blockaded on all sides, a tactic used since ancient times to starve out a people to death. This is the crux of the matter, and anyone who cannot see that is blind:

Hamas is conditioning its agreement [to a permanent ceasefire] on Israel opening border crossings into Gaza.

source: from the same article you linked to

And from another article:

One aspect of the blockade that seems to have been overlooked is the way it has been used to soften up Gaza...For three years Gaza's population has been denied food, medicines and fuel.

http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=5&gl=us

According to the United Nations, Palestinians are dying because of this blockade. According to everyone, no Israelis have died since the rocket attacks on Israel have resumed. So why is it that you are only focusing on the rocket attacks which kill nobody and not the starving out a people to death which *is* killing people? One point five MILLION Palestinians have been injured by Israel, and you are worrying about a few rockets that land on the side of the road?

[*RAGE*]

A few relevant points from the same article you quoted.
did not quote the article just made a statement that Hamas is firing rocket and more will die until Hamas stops firing at Isreal
First point:

Israel’s operation in Gaza, which left more than 1,300 Palestinians and 13 Israelis [soldiers]dead we have talked about this before.....you can say isreal is targing women and childern but I could say that Hamas is hiding behind the women and children....
Yes that is a high number but why buff why? you know why because

source: same article you linked to

Of those, 50% were confirmed women and children:

Those 1,000-plus dead Gazans are broken down into percentages defined in terms of women and children and the rest. The earliest figures stated that about 25 per cent of Gaza's dead were women and children , and that has steadily climbed close to the 50 per cent mark since Israel's ground invasion got under way. then again why,,,,why did they invade....why now buff. it could not be because has been firing rockets? no it could not be their fault...or could it??????

http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=5&gl=us

And here is a number to put that into perspective:

Israeli assault injures 1.5 million Gazans

http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=5&gl=us

One point five MILLION!

now how do you know this because you are not there???????

Second point:

Israel’s operation in Gaza...was said by the military to be aimed at stopping Hamas from firing rockets into Israeli territory. More than 30 rockets and mortar shells have been fired since Israel declared the [unilateral] cease-fire.And it will not stop until Hamas is cought or killed

source: from the same article you linked to

Remember: all of you had justified the massive murder of Gazan civilians by saying that it was a-ok because it was the only way to stop rockets being fired at Israel. And was it not all of us who told you that no matter how massive Israel's response was, it could not stop the rocket attacks? Rather, the only way to stop the rocket attacks was through negotiating a peace treaty or mutual ceasefire? but yet they still are firing three todayDo we not now see how the only few months in which no rockets were fired were when the two sides had agreed to a ceasefire, which Israel then broke? again how do you know this I have read several reports that Israel had been firing rocket the whole time

If the rockets started up again so quickly, what was the point of murdering 1,000+ Palestinians? Your calling it murder....it is not murder when it is under war, but why wouldnt you call it murder because you have been looking for sympathy for your people so you call it murder......

Third point:

The rockets were fired by other than Hamas to begin with:

Responsibility for today’s attack on Ashkelon was claimed by a Gaza militant group affiliated with the Lebanese Shiite Muslim Hezbollah, which fought a monthlong war with Israel in 2006.for the same reason Hamas are not all palestinians as I have stated before...

source: from the same article you linked to

Fourth point:

Those who fired the rocket gave the exact same reason for firing them as Israel gives for devastating Gaza:

“In a continuation of revenge for our people’s blood, members of our rockets unit today fired two rockets,” the group, the Brigades of Hezbollah in Palestine, said in a leaflet faxed to journalists.so why is it wrong for Israel doing the same thing that Hamas or it followers you just stated they did it for the same reason......

source: from the same article you linked to

So Israel says it is retaliating for rocket attacks, and the militants say the exact same thing.

Fifth point:

The ceasefire was "unilateral", meaning Hamas was given no input on the matter. It is like me jumping you from behind, beating you up, raping you, and then just when you are about to retaliate, I say "ceasefire!" Having said that, Hamas did agree to a one-week ceasefire, which brings me to my sixth point.
when was this and are you sure hamas did not fire rocket...
Sixth point:

Gaza is blockaded on all sides, a tactic used since ancient times to starve out a people to death. This is the crux of the matter, and anyone who cannot see that is blind:but why??? they have to lock hamas in because if they dont they they will have to lock more people down....hamas is causing this to their own

Hamas is conditioning its agreement [to a permanent ceasefire] on Israel opening border crossings into Gaza.

source: from the same article you linked to

And from another article:

One aspect of the blockade that seems to have been overlooked is the way it has been used to soften up Gaza...For three years Gaza's population has been denied food, medicines and fuel.this is not true if you go without food for more then a week you will die...come on......

http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=5&gl=us

According to the United Nations, Palestinians are dying because of this blockade. According to everyone, no Israelis have died since the rocket attacks on Israel have resumed. So why is it that you are only focusing on the rocket attacks which kill nobody and not the starving out a people to death which *is* killing people? One point five MILLION Palestinians have been injured by Israel, and you are worrying about a few rockets that land on the side of the road?

because if hamas did not start this with rockets then the 1.5 million you have stated over and over would not be getting hurt.....

in bold..........

buff 90% of your thread are about palestinians so what if i write about israel both side of the story is always a good thing..dont you think??????/

[Matt]

You can live without food for sometime, i think depending on the person, upto 6/7 weeks maybe longer...

[*RAGE*]

You can live without food for sometime, i think depending on the person, upto 6/7 weeks maybe longer...

this is true mad and I ment to put seven weeks. thanks for the typoooooos

[Matt]

I would live longer lol because i would eat my toe nails, snot and hair..

[Panzerfaust]

I wonder if Hamas will ever get to preach to the world about their Concentration Camp that they live in, and people starving? Or do the Jews have the Holocaust market cornered?

[amcon]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...n8w&refer=home

Stop firing rockets and there might be a end to this....

Israel’s air force attacked targets in the Gaza Strip, saying it was responding to Qassam rockets, mortar shells and Grad missiles fired at the country in recent days. these rockets and missiles sound kind of expensive, im sure they cost more than a few hundred dollars... point is if humus (another bad dont mess with Zohan joke) chose to keep that money and not fire it back at israel they would have more money to feed the people the govern.

“It appears that Hamas is out to deliberately undermine any chance for quiet,” said Mark Regev, spokesman for Olmert. “In allowing the launching of deadly rockets at Israeli cities, Hamas alone holds responsibility for any possible escalation.” hamas is going to get pounded a gain just imo, i didnt say they should but israel is going to make an example of them... and prob have the worlds permission- because simply hamas wont stop the attacks

[amcon]

I wonder if Hamas will ever get to preach to the world about their Concentration Camp that they live in, and people starving? Or do the Jews have the Holocaust market cornered?

my guess is that if they can smuggle in missles, rockets and stuff they can def smuggle out the info about concentration camps and people starving ....

[amcon]

I would live longer lol because i would eat my toe nails, snot and hair..

lol... your so disgusting - bugs to?

[Flagg]

I love how people somehow try to justify what happened in Gaza in those three weeks was perfectly fine.

[BuffedGuy]

I love how people somehow try to justify what happened in Gaza in those three weeks was perfectly fine.

There is nothing we can say that will change their minds. Whatever Israel does is justified somehow.

[*RAGE*]

There is nothing we can say that will change their minds. Whatever Israel does is justified somehow.

that is not what I am saying......DO i think israel is justified in defieding its self yes. Is it sad that innocent people die..yes....buff if it does not go your way you dont want to talk about it..hamas fired rockets....trying to kill israels did they guess not but were they trying....yes.....you are one sided....

[NightWolf]

Oh brother.. so now the Palis have the "right"
to fire rockets also.

[Flagg]

that is not what I am saying......DO i think israel is justified in defieding its self yes. Is it sad that innocent people die..yes....buff if it does not go your way you dont want to talk about it..hamas fired rockets....trying to kill israels did they guess not but were they trying....yes.....you are one sided....

Of course Israel has the right to defend itself. It does not have the right to shoot through women and children to get to it's target. People can argue that Hamas deliberately hid in places they considered safe, but Israel still pulled the trigger. 1400 dead innocent people to get to a handful of Hamas, surely you cannot think that is acceptable?

What im trying to say mate, is how would you feel if you saw the police shooting through customers and staff to get to armed bank robbers?

[BuffedGuy]

Of course Israel has the right to defend itself. It does not have the right to shoot through women and children to get to it's target. People can argue that Hamas deliberately hid in places they considered safe, but Israel still pulled the trigger. 1400 dead innocent people to get to a handful of Hamas, surely you cannot think that is acceptable?

What im trying to say mate, is how would you feel if you saw the police shooting through customers and staff to get to armed bank robbers?

Hamas has said LITERALLY "We do not target civilians; rather, we fire rockets at Israel, and since they are not smart missiles they just land wherever." Do I agree with this justification? No. But do I see that it is the same thing Israel claims when it devastates civilian areas? Yes. So does Hamas get away with what it does by chanting "Palestine has the right to defend itself" ? If not, then why does Isreal get away with this mantra? B-i-g-o-t-r-y. Jews can do no harm, and Muslims are devil worshipers.

[*RAGE*]

Of course Israel has the right to defend itself. It does not have the right to shoot through women and children to get to it's target. Do you think that they are targeting women and children??????????please People can argue that Hamas deliberately hid in places they considered safe, but Israel still pulled the trigger. 1400 dead innocent people to get to a handful of Hamas, surely you cannot think that is acceptable?NO i do not....that is a tragedy

What im trying to say mate, is how would you feel if you saw the police shooting through customers and staff to get to armed bank robbers?

I dont believe this is the case I think that is how it is being put out in the new....I can not say for sure because I am not there but I have a lot of experience in this kind of work and not one targets women and children...so I think it is on which new case do you believe...

[BuffedGuy]

that is not what I am saying......DO i think israel is justified in defieding its self yes. Is it sad that innocent people die..yes....buff if it does not go your way you dont want to talk about it..hamas fired rockets....trying to kill israels did they guess not but were they trying....yes.....you are one sided....

See what I posted above. You are beyond reason.

[*RAGE*]

Hamas has said LITERALLY "We do not target civilians; rather, we fire rockets at Israel, and since they are not smart missiles they just land wherever." by this you cant say you are not targeting women and children because you dont know where they are going to fall.....your statement makes no senseDo I agree with this justification? No. good.But do I see that it is the same thing Israel claims when it devastates civilian areas? Yes.so you can say forsure that hamas is not hiding there?

Hey buff i like these short post unlike the books that you normally write and i dont mean this is a bad toward you at all.......

[Flagg]

I dont believe this is the case I think that is how it is being put out in the new....I can not say for sure because I am not there but I have a lot of experience in this kind of work and not one targets women and children...so I think it is on which new case do you believe...

They targeted schools and hospitals. You KNOW they targeted these areas and they didn't give a damn who died to get to their intended target. I can produce sources if you would like, SHOWING what was hit, and how many people were killed if you like? If it wasn't for a UN building being hit, who knows how much longer they would have go on for.

The sad part of this is, Hamas is not going to stop. And what is going to happen, is soon Gaza will cease to exist.

[Flagg]

Prehaps Buffed is one sided on the basis of his Faith.

I am not religious, I am a scientist first. But I agree with Buff. Hamas needs to go, that much is simple...but why cant you see that the Israeli attack was exactly the same as Hamas only on a much bigger scale? I have a friend that is Palestinian, and she is currently in the UAE, and I think it's terrible that one day her home could cease to exist. Why can't you see that Israel are doing to the Palestinians what Germany was doing to Jewish people 60 years ago?

[*RAGE*]

They targeted schools and hospitals. You KNOW they targeted these areas and they didn't give a damn who died to get to their intended target. it would look that way....but since i am not there i cant say that is true I can produce sources if you would like, SHOWING what was hit, and how many people were killed if you like? If it wasn't for a UN building being hit, who knows how much longer they would have go on for. you can bring him on here or have him pm me i would love to talk to him..

The sad part of this is, Hamas is not going to stop. And what is going to happen, is soon Gaza will cease to exist.

this is a very true statement....and for this I am sad...now you might not want to believe this but i dont have a problem with anyone but hamas

I feel that hamas is to blame in this now I am not say that israel is not to blame for some of the way they handled this...I am not a supporter of israel like this thread sounds....I have other issues that would talk to you on pm or some other way

[*RAGE*]

Prehaps Buffed is one sided on the basis of his Faith.
I believe that he is but I think that is a good thing to a point..
I am not religious, I am a scientist first. But I agree with Buff. Hamas needs to go, that much is simple..then we are talking about the samething.but why cant you see that the Israeli attack was exactly the same as Hamas only on a much bigger scale? I have a friend that is Palestinian, and she is currently in the UAE, and I think it's terrible that one day her home could cease to exist. Why can't you see that Israel are doing to the Palestinians what Germany was doing to Jewish people 60 years ago?

i dont think it is to that extent yet.. not saying that it will not go that fare but i sure hope it dont....

[*RAGE*]

Oh brother.. so now the Palis have the "right"
to fire rockets also.

not sure what you are saying, (palis Hamas) have been firing rocket and using suicide boombers for years now....

[BuffedGuy]

Prehaps Buffed is one sided on the basis of his Faith.

I am not religious, I am a scientist first. But I agree with Buff. Hamas needs to go, that much is simple...but why cant you see that the Israeli attack was exactly the same as Hamas only on a much bigger scale? I have a friend that is Palestinian, and she is currently in the UAE, and I think it's terrible that one day her home could cease to exist. Why can't you see that Israel are doing to the Palestinians what Germany was doing to Jewish people 60 years ago?

Thanks, Flagg. I appreciate your posts.

[*RAGE*]

Thanks, Flagg. I appreciate your posts.

buff do you think Israel would stop if hamas stopped or do you think they will continue to fight?

[Flagg]

Thanks, Flagg. I appreciate your posts.

No problem Buffed. You remind me a little of another member on this board who was very religious, but he passed away some time ago. Even though he strongly valued his faith, he was very polite and very wise.

Prone, at least we can all agree that Hamas needs to go. I just dont think bombing Gaza flat is the answer. We are supposed to be living in civilised times, what the Hell happened to diplomatic relations? We can all argue till we're blue in the face "who attacked who first", that argument is not valid any longer. What does matter is that there has to be a peaceful resolution and there have to be concesions made on BOTH SIDES. Yes, I know the world is a harsh place but we can't go on like this forever.

[*RAGE*]

No problem Buffed. You remind me a little of another member on this board who was very religious, but he passed away some time ago. Even though he strongly valued his faith, he was very polite and very wise.

Prone, at least we can all agree that Hamas needs to go.yes thank you I just dont think bombing Gaza flat is the answer. We are supposed to be living in civilised times, what the Hell happened to diplomatic relations? We can all argue till we're blue in the face "who attacked who first", that argument is not valid any longer. What does matter is that there has to be a peaceful resolution and there have to be concesions made on BOTH SIDES. Yes, I know the world is a harsh place but we can't go on like this forever.

good enough..

[BuffedGuy]

buff do you think Israel would stop if hamas stopped or do you think they will continue to fight?

You keep presupposing that Israel is *only* attacking as a retaliation. I disagree with your belief in the first place (since unlike you, I see that both sides argue that they are "retaliating")...almost no aggressor on earth has proudly said that they are guilty of aggression; rather, they almost always hide under the feeble excuse of "defense." Even when Adolf Hitler invaded various lands, he said that this was in defense, and he justified it.

So to answer your question: of course I believe that Israel will continue to attack Palestinians regardless of what Palestinians do or do not do. This is the logical conclusion one can draw just by looking at the historical record. But of course, when you always say that one side is 'retaliating' whenever it attacks, and the other side is always guilty of aggression whenever it attacks, then I do not think you can ever reach a just conclusion on the matter.

As a strong proof, I say what I've repeated a hundred times on this forum: Hamas fired zero rockets during the ceasefire months, and Israel still bombed them. So yeah, I--like the Palestinian people themselves--have realized that there is no way to prevent the Israeli aggression. To always put the blame on the Palestinians (i.e. "YOU brought this upon YOURSELVES") is like when people blame the rape victim instead of laying the blame at the feet of the rapist. The Palestinians have understood what the Native Americans took a long time to understand as well: they can do nothing to prevent the colonial power from devouring their land and depriving them of their rights. No matter what the Palestinians do, the Israelis will generate an excuse to attack.

To conclude: the answer to your question is beyond obvious.

[BuffedGuy]

No problem Buffed. You remind me a little of another member on this board who was very religious, but he passed away some time ago.

Innah lillahi wah innah ilayhi rajioon. From God we come, and to Him is our return.

That is sad to hear that he passed away. Thanks for the kind words. Much appreciated.

[NightWolf]

not sure what you are saying, (palis Hamas) have been firing rocket and using suicide boombers for years now....

I meant that they started firing rockets now again
and some members here are justifying that.

[Matt]

I meant that they started firing rockets now again
and some members here are justifying that.

And why not, israel are treating it as a giant jail, treat me in this way and i will fire rockets at you..

[Nooomoto]

No problem Buffed. You remind me a little of another member on this board who was very religious, but he passed away some time ago. Even though he strongly valued his faith, he was very polite and very wise.

Prone, at least we can all agree that Hamas needs to go. I just dont think bombing Gaza flat is the answer. We are supposed to be living in civilised times, what the Hell happened to diplomatic relations? We can all argue till we're blue in the face "who attacked who first", that argument is not valid any longer. What does matter is that there has to be a peaceful resolution and there have to be concesions made on BOTH SIDES. Yes, I know the world is a harsh place but we can't go on like this forever.

You can't ask two opposing warrior cultures to lay down their weapons and "talk it out", Hamas is clearly not interested in talking about anything of any merit. Israel is clearly not interested in allowing Hamas to exist so close to home. Neither will stop until the other is dead.

Israel only exists today because they told the world to **** off and did what they had to do in their early years to survive.

Not everyone is meant to live...some people have to die violently. The strong survive, and the meak perish. It's the way it always has been and always will be.

You can't save everyone.

I say let them fight it out, and party with the winner.

[BuffedGuy]

I meant that they started firing rockets now again
and some members here are justifying that.

I'm not justifying the firing of rockets. Rather, I simply say that the justifications you and others use for Israel firing missiles into Gaza are the same that Hamas uses.

Having said that, the article says that it was other than Hamas who fired them.

[BuffedGuy]

You can't ask two opposing warrior cultures to lay down their weapons and "talk it out", Hamas is clearly not interested in talking about anything of any merit. Israel is clearly not interested in allowing Hamas to exist so close to home. Neither will stop until the other is dead.

The underlined part is complete baloney. It is Israel that refuses to talk, whereas Hamas has continually said they are willing to negotiate and compromise even back to the 1967 borders. If Israel is not even willing to concede to this, then it is quite clear which side is "not being a partner for peace." As for your claim that "Israel is not interested in Hamas existing so close to home", that is just white-washing what the reality is: Israelis believe that God gave them the land of Eretz Israel and they will annihilate anyone who gets in their way of that religious right. They want the land, simple as that.

[Matt]

You can't ask two opposing warrior cultures to lay down their weapons and "talk it out", Hamas is clearly not interested in talking about anything of any merit. Israel is clearly not interested in allowing Hamas to exist so close to home. Neither will stop until the other is dead.

Israel only exists today because they told the world to **** off and did what they had to do in their early years to survive.

Not everyone is meant to live...some people have to die violently. The strong survive, and the meak perish. It's the way it always has been and always will be.

You can't save everyone.

I say let them fight it out, and party with the winner.

Some people dont know shit...

[Nooomoto]

The underlined part is complete baloney. It is Israel that refuses to talk, whereas Hamas has continually said they are willing to negotiate and compromise even back to the 1967 borders. If Israel is not even willing to concede to this, then it is quite clear which side is "not being a partner for peace." As for your claim that "Israel is not interested in Hamas existing so close to home", that is just white-washing what the reality is: Israelis believe that God gave them the land of Eretz Israel and they will annihilate anyone who gets in their way of that religious right. They want the land, simple as that.

Israel wants the land, Hamas wants the land...simple as that. Let them fight it out and the winner gets it.

Someone will lose, eventually.

[BuffedGuy]

Israel wants the land, Hamas wants the land...simple as that. Let them fight it out and the winner gets it.

Yes, the difference is that the land belongs to Palestine, not Israel. It's part of the half of the land which the United Nations mandate bequeathed to Palestinians. So your argument is as illogical as saying "USA wants New York, Russia wants New York, so let them fight over it and winner gets it."

Someone will lose, eventually.

Hitler wanted Poland. Poland wanted Poland. Someone will lose, eventually.

No Jew on earth would accept the "might is right" argument when it came to Hitler's Nazi Germany. No French person would accept it when it came to Paris. Yet suddenly we're supposed to accept it when it comes to our land? Absurd.

[Nooomoto]

My point being that if they were allowed to fight it out, the loser will have no choice but to accept it...because the loser will be dead.

That to me seems better than bitching about everything. It's simple.