obama on gun control

[RA]

Are you ready for the House Bill titled ‘HR 45, Blair Holt Licensing and Record Act of 2009′?




Link to the bill----> http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h45/show


Here they come, ready or not. Feel the water getting warmer?
It will make it illegal to own a firearm unless it is registered with the database in Washington D.C. As a gun owner you will have to be finger printed, you will be required to provide your DL#, SS#, you must maintain a valid address at all times, submit to mental and physical health records being put on file, you will also be required to file any address changes and any ownership changes even if a private sale. Each update will cost $25 and if you fail to comply you will lose your right to own firearms. This bill and its language mirror almost completely one defeated last year in the House of Representatives by soon to be Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel. Will we the citizenry be as lucky this time?
Pass this on to everyone who believes in strict Constitutionalism and remember that laws only apply to those who obey them. Criminals by definition and nature do not abide by laws. New laws and restrictions only apply to the law abiding citizen and are not written with the criminal in mind. With guns, it is not about having laws on the books to prosecute individuals, it is about taking guns away from the people so that no one has them in the first place.
One last item to note, when assuming power and creating a fascist state, Hitler was a proponent of strong gun laws because a disarmed populace was much easier to control than an armed one. The kings of old also outlawed weapons of any kind in any region that they conquered to quell the ability of the citizens to up rise against them.
The Founding Fathers of this nation understood all of the above and because of this they included the second amendment in the constitution. In fact, they knew that at some point in every society’s life span that the need for the population to arise came about. To this end they made the right to keep and bear arms against a tyrannical state an absolute right that could not be revoked. They did this because the first thing tyrants and despots do is to remove a population’s right to defend themselves When this is done, the tyrants have no problem with the destruction of society as we know it.
Spread this news to all true patriots! Protect your Second Amendment!
The following is a summary of the bill as provided by the Congressional Research Service. If you read the whole bill, you’ll find it will effectively preclude the ownership of ANY firearms by law-abiding people unless licensed by the Attorney General. How long do you think THAT would take??
Congressional Research Service Summary
The following summary was written by the Congressional Research Service, a well-respected nonpartisan arm of the Library of Congress. GovTrack did not write and has no control over these summaries.
1/6/2009–Introduced. Blair Holt’s Firearm Licensing and Record of Sale Act of 2009 - Amends the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act to prohibit a person from possessing a firearm unless that person has been issued a firearm license under this Act or a state system certified under this Act and such license has not been invalidated or revoked.
Prescribes license application, issuance, and renewal requirements.
Prohibits transferring or receiving a qualifying firearm unless the recipient presents a valid firearms license, the license is verified, and the dealer records a tracking authorization number.
Prescribes firearms transfer reporting and record keeping requirements.
Directs the Attorney General to establish and maintain a federal record of sale system.
Prohibits:
(1) transferring a firearm to any person other than a licensee, unless the transfer is processed through a licensed dealer in accordance with national instant criminal background check system requirements, with exceptions;
(2) a licensed manufacturer or dealer from failing to comply with reporting and record keeping requirements of this Act;
(3) failing to report the loss or theft of the firearm to the Attorney General within 72 hours;
(4) failing to report to the Attor ney General an address change within 60 days; or
(5) keeping a loaded firearm, or an unloaded firearm and ammunition for the firearm, knowingly or recklessly disregarding the risk that a child is capable of gaining access, if a child uses the firearm and causes death or serious bodily injury.
Prescribes criminal penalties for violations of firearms provisions covered by this Act.
Directs the Attorney General to:
(1) establish and maintain a firearm injury information clearinghouse;
(2) conduct continuing studies and investigations of firearm-related deaths and injuries; and
(3) collect and maintain current production and sales figures of each licensed manufacturer.
Authorizes the Attorney General to certify state firearm licensing or record of sale systems.

[Nooomoto]

I'm glad I bought leading up to the election. I saw this coming from a mile away, as did many others. The gun shop I go to had 15-20 people in it at any given time. The price of a Colt AR-15 A3 tactical was going up $100/week around here while I was paying attention to it. Ridiculous.

I bought mine for $1400, 2 weeks later it was $1600, etc...

Damn the republican party for screwing up so bad and losing their seats.

They are going to end up making criminals out of those of us who go through all the legal processes to legally own weapons.

[JiGGaMaN]

its about time. those rules make good sense. now maybe the U.S. wont be the laughing stock of the rest of the modern world for having completely retarded gun laws.

[RA]

Unlike the rest of the modern world Americans value our freedom. The govt has no right to tell me if I can own a firearm and absolutely no right to make me jump through fifty hoops to get one when if I were a criminal I could find one very easily..

its about time. those rules make good sense. now maybe the U.S. wont be the laughing stock of the rest of the modern world for having completely retarded gun laws.

[Prada]

Gotta agree with Jiggy.

[JiGGaMaN]

Unlike the rest of the modern world Americans value our freedom. The govt has no right to tell me if I can own a firearm and absolutely no right to make me jump through fifty hoops to get one when if I were a criminal I could find one very easily..

i can make the argument that many other countries have more freedom than the u.s., just not with respect to owning things who have a sole purpose of killing. do you not think it logical to have a name and address attached to each firearm sold? do you not think the mentally unstable should not own firearms? do you think someone would need an assault weapon rather than a simple rifle for any legitimate use? do you not think gun sales are directly correlated to gun violence?

[spywizard]

doesn't matter when you bought the guns you currently own..

if you have it in your possession.. you must have it and yourself registered...

can everyone say civil war??

[RA]

In the states where you can carry a gun the gun violence rate is lower..and I shouldnt have to justify any of this. The second amendment to the United States constitution says I can own a firearm...and the uber lib congress and president have no right to try to change that.

So to answer your questions-
no
they already cant
a semi auto assult weapon is fine

i can make the argument that many other countries have more freedom than the u.s., just not with respect to owning things who have a sole purpose of killing. do you not think it logical to have a name and address attached to each firearm sold? do you not think the mentally unstable should not own firearms? do you think someone would need an assault weapon rather than a simple rifle for any legitimate use? do you not think gun sales are directly correlated to gun violence?

[RA]

Well nobama is stimulating the economy one way...bullets and guns are flying off the shelf and an unprecedented rate. Good luck trying to take them away...

doesn't matter when you bought the guns you currently own..

if you have it in your possession.. you must have it and yourself registered...

can everyone say civil war??

[JiGGaMaN]

In the states where you can carry a gun the gun violence rate is lower..and I shouldnt have to justify any of this.

relative to countries where there are strict gun ownership laws? i think not.

[RA]

There you go again jigga...thinking!

I was comparing states. Like the united states.

relative to countries where there are strict gun ownership laws? i think not.

[zimmy]

Check the stats jigga...gun violence is on it's way up by more than double in Britian since 2 years ago and alot of other countries that don't value freedom are following suit. Criminals don't obey laws....so making more gun laws only works vs those willing to follow them.

[Nooomoto]

its about time. those rules make good sense. now maybe the U.S. wont be the laughing stock of the rest of the modern world for having completely retarded gun laws.

Let them laugh...I have cool guns, and they don't.

[BgMc31]

In the states where you can carry a gun the gun violence rate is lower..and I shouldnt have to justify any of this. The second amendment to the United States constitution says I can own a firearm...and the uber lib congress and president have no right to try to change that.

So to answer your questions-
no
they already cant
a semi auto assult weapon is fine

Not true Roid...Nevada and New Mexico are two examples of rising gun violence and both states allow folks to carry.

[quarry206]

not only a repost to the same damn bill we have had posted on this forum a few times before... but once again it is blown way out of context and mis-quoted..

For the record i am against the bill totally... BUT , most all of those rules are already laws just not enforced.. AND it would would only take effect in states that don't have a 'qualifying system' already.

people if you hate obama thats fine, who cares, but don't keep reposting the same stuff over and over and blaming him when he has nothing to do with the bill... try writting your congressmen if this upsets you so much

[RA]

Sorry if I offended you Mr sensitive...lol Its been a while since Ive posted and didnt know it was already discussed. I dont hate anyone. I just dont want him coming after my guns...

Wheres the misquote?

not only a repost to the same damn bill we have had posted on this forum a few times before... but once again it is blown way out of context and mis-quoted..

For the record i am against the bill totally... BUT , most all of those rules are already laws just not enforced.. AND it would would only take effect in states that don't have a 'qualifying system' already.

people if you hate obama thats fine, who cares, but don't keep reposting the same stuff over and over and blaming him when he has nothing to do with the bill... try writting your congressmen if this upsets you so much

[quarry206]

roidattack i will give you credit . you are about the only person that bashes him that has their facts strait. but this bill also has nothing to do with Obama.. but even you have to admit have the people bashing him are just repeating whatever they see on fox news.. not looking it up for themselves.. and this bill once again is only geared to states without a qualifying system..


You will have to carry a photo ID firearms license.<-- photo ID is required if you have one within reach, so a firearms card the an extra step is not over the top. as long as they make it so the card will wave a waiting period. Like the concealed


A training class is required to be licensed.<-- I think a good idea only because most people have no damn clue how to use take care of or shoot.. hell cops need to take more time on a gun range learning. I taught Firearms and it was scary to see how bad law enforcement shot.. but i agree this shouldn't be 'A LAW' should be something people do on their own

Disclosure of your storage method is required for license.<- this one is kinda weird but doesn't matter, its a question 'i think' is already asked on most request to purchase forms. but if not 99% of people will make something up anyways... but this is also something that shouldn't be law. but yet something people want to do for safety

A thumb print is required for license.<- already required in most all states, not really a big deal. by doing this does not mean you are going in a criminal database, only on file. there are way to many mis-understandings about what the government does with your finger prints, they are not going to add your print to a criminal database or something weird like that.

Every sale recorded by the federal government.<- this is the only one that jumped out at me because after readin section II of the bill the wording is very open. and the words "qualifying firearm" is often debated because it is suppost to mean handguns and assualt rifles. I didn't like the writting of section II at all.. but with the exception of one word. its a law that is already in place.

If you move, and don't tell the Attorney General within 60 days, you are a criminal.
<- well this is a law anyways, for concealed weapons holders and anybody moving in general for your DL.. but if they make it another place to report to, it would add too much and be alittle stupid to have to spend a week everytime you move to make sure the government knows where you are.. but once again, its kinda already a law, this just adds to the laws of moving.

If a firearm is stolen and you don't report it, you are a criminal. <- actually is a law in most areas, probably all areas. something not enforced nor do i think anybody will ever be convicted on it, unless the DA believes they are hiding something. This is one of those things its never enforced because it would be way too much work just for somebody to say "i just found out myself" and it thrown out...

There will be no grandfathered firearms. If you do not obtain a license and report every firearm you currently own, you are a criminal. <-- i'm back and forth on this issue, because one it would be way too much work.. I did not see this in the bill when i read it.. i would ask the poster to tell me what section he saw it. but please understand i'm asking for my personal knowledge, not to debate it
There will be a license fee and a fee for the "services" provided at purchase time.
Licenses must be renewed every 5 years.<-- This is stupid because if you fail to meet the standards they take your permit, not your weapons, so once again you are not doing anything to protect people.. its only smoke so people don't see the lies behind it

(2) a licensed manufacturer or dealer from failing to comply with reporting and record keeping requirements of this Act;<-- already a law, and how is this a bad thing? a dealer keeping recorders of who he is selling to, to prove its legal?

(5) keeping a loaded firearm, or an unloaded firearm and ammunition for the firearm, knowingly or recklessly disregarding the risk that a child is capable of gaining access, if a child uses the firearm and causes death or serious bodily injury.Prescribes criminal penalties for violations of firearms provisions covered by this Act. <-- already a law, and once again how is this a bad thing? if you let your kids use your gun becuase you can't keep it hiden or locked away, or because your a bad parent and don't have control.. your own fault.

I am one of the few people that have actually read HR-45. and though i am not for it. it is a bill that will probably never pass thats why its being pushed around now because nobody wants to vote on it. also it is geared to states that do not have good enough gun laws already.. I live in florida, and most all this is already laws. I would like to add, though i'm not a lawyer. most of the writting of this law is geared to licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector not the avg person owning a gun.. but i do whole heartly agree this will be only the begining if it passes.. I believe gun safety and control should be taught and used more. but the Feds should not be the ones making it happen.

and i'm sorry people we can pretend all we want that people should control themselfs but its just not true. 90 percent of people that own guns don't know the laws of using it. nor how to shot it, clean it or its functions.. though i would hate it if i were to have to take it. its not a bad thing..

[quarry206]

I am not for the bill.. only think if people realized how their government worked alittle more they would complain to the right people and look at what is really going on.

[RA]

Again criminals are laughing because the only people this has an effect on is responsible gun owners. Im totally against all of it.

...and quarry for being against it you sound like your for it.

[stangmatt06]

I just went out and bought a .40cal smith & wesson yesterday. He isn't going to take away my gun privileges. This guy is a joke

[spywizard]

Not true Roid...Nevada and New Mexico are two examples of rising gun violence and both states allow folks to carry.

it is true, and has statistical data from the 70's 80's 90's and to date that support counties even that have the "will issue" right to conceal compared to must or will not issue a license the rate of violent crimes against citizens is significantly lower..

using that same criteria, check out Washington DC..

Nevada and New Mexico?? want to check the demographics of the persons that commit the gun violence in those states...

[D7M]

it is true, and has statistical data from the 70's 80's 90's and to date that support counties even that have the "will issue" right to conceal compared to must or will not issue a license the rate of violent crimes against citizens is significantly lower..

using that same criteria, check out Washington DC..

Nevada and New Mexico?? want to check the demographics of the persons that commit the gun violence in those states...

good point.

[quarry206]

Again criminals are laughing because the only people this has an effect on is responsible gun owners. Im totally against all of it.

...and quarry for being against it you sound like your for it.

i won't lie i and ify on how i feel about gun controll.. i do think that there needs to be something done. but i don't feel this is the bill (because of the wording) . that should do it..

I worked in Law Enforcement, so i can honestly say i know there are alot of legal ways for ex-felones to get a gun (they can get the gun, it is illegal for them to actually have it). so yes there should be something done. but i agree with your point very fully we don't need to go overboard and make stupid laws.

IMO the best way to cure gun voilience is for judges to get more power when it comes to the death sentence, and also tough sentences for gun crimes.. prisons are a cake walk, and the avg inmate spends 17 years on death row by the way the is a cell with a TV usually. and armed robby if the first offense is usually only about a 5 year sentence. crime is out of control because of the legal system being way way way to soft, honestly one of the reasons i got out of that feild because i hated being nice to a rapist just because he could write a his parents elected offical and say he was mistreated (because that happens ALOT).. crime is up because police and prison guards have to much preasure on them to be officer friendly not to do their job..

[Duck of Death]

relative to countries where there are strict gun ownership laws? i think not.

....You should not post drivel like this without being well informed. In Switzerland, citizens are REQUIRED to keep in their home a fully (not semi) automatic assault rifle with 500 rounds of ammunition at all times. You can find pictures on the net showing students with their rifles slung over their shoulders going to school and visiting the range after classes. Their incidence of gun crimes is WAY lower than the United States. The country that has the HIGHEST ownership of guns per capita is........Israel. Gun crime rate - extremely low.
How bout The two areas in the U.S. that have the strictest gun control laws - Washington, D.C. and New York City?? Shouldnt they be little paradises where citizens can roam the streets, unafraid of gun violence?? WRONG-O!!
So you see your argument has absolutely no validity whatsoever. Actually it is a moot point, since the constitution recognizes (not grants) our God-given right to keep and bear arms. No two- bit democratic fascist and his staff of tax cheats and liars can take it away.
Is this clear enough for you?

[Nooomoto]

....You should not post drivel like this without being well informed. In Switzerland, citizens are REQUIRED to keep in their home a fully (not semi) automatic assault rifle with 500 rounds of ammunition at all times. You can find pictures on the net showing students with their rifles slung over their shoulders going to school and visiting the range after classes. Their incidence of gun crimes is WAY lower than the United States. The country that has the HIGHEST ownership of guns per capita is........Israel. Gun crime rate - extremely low.
How bout The two areas in the U.S. that have the strictest gun control laws - Washington, D.C. and New York City?? Shouldnt they be little paradises where citizens can roam the streets, unafraid of gun violence?? WRONG-O!!
So you see your argument has absolutely no validity whatsoever. Actually it is a moot point, since the constitution recognizes (not grants) our God-given right to keep and bear arms. No two- bit democratic fascist and his staff of tax cheats and liars can take it away.
Is this clear enough for you?

So I looked it up, you're a tad off. It seems that it's not all citizens, but militia members. The militia members are required to keep their weapon in their home.

I didn't know about this, and I'm impressed. Thanks for bringing it up!

from Wikipedia:

The gun policy in Switzerland is unique in Europe. The personal weapon of militia personnel is kept at home as part of the military obligations. This, in addition to liberal gun laws and strong shooting traditions, has led to a very high gun count per capita. Switzerland has one of the highest gun ownership rates in the world. In recent times political opposition has expressed a desire for tighter gun regulations.[1]

[sloth9]

I am perfectly sane, do have ADD, but anyway I am fine. I will not roll over for this at all, I have plenty of guns unregistered and they will stay unregistered. I will start keeping them underground if this passes, cause sooner or later it will be thrown away. My registered guns, I will register them cause they are already in a data base and believe me they will start knocking on doors for them. I think it is BS and we must fight this all the way. Think about this some schools (colleges) have been talking about full registration, but allowing students who are legal, to carry on campus, it has been talked about in texas and utah, or so says my buddy in the gun club down here. But regardless if this is true, the arguement is if you are a gunman fixing to pull a rampage, you are gonna think twice if you know you are going to walk onto a campus with 12-30 police with guns and maybe 400 students with guns, who maybe just as well trained as a police officer in using the weapon. Now I do agree that we need something in place to stop these psychos, but no amount of phsyche tests are gonna stop this, we are just asking for more government in an era that needs less government. Civil war, I dont know? but it is leaning more and more to civil unrest, if the states were granted more control on alot of government situations it would be better.


Now it has been a while since I took History classes in college but didnt the civil war actually start because of too much federal government. Something to do with the Slaves were considered property, and when the slaves would run to a northern state for freedom, the northern state had to give the slaves back to the owners. Then later it changed to where the slaves did not have to be taken back to the owner but the slaves still didnt have freedom and or amnesty. Long story short the government stepped in and made an overruling judgment for all the states and the south said uh, hell no, they are taking our property so let leave the union. Hence the civil war, now correct me if I am wrong but I know it isnt just we in the south had slaves and didnt want to give up so we all created a war. There was a little more to it and how it all started.

Do not mis-construe this I said its been a while and I could be wrong, I also do not think they were right, slavery was horrible. I am just trying to prove a point the federal government was walking on rights and just pissing on them so they were fed up and the war started. In my eyes the way so many people like guns this very well could happen again, I hope not cause I dont want to fight, but dont you think that this time the gun owners could win, cause most libs are pacifist's who hug trees and eat vegetables, calling for gun control, and all the gang bangers cant hit 2 targets with a full clip, and the ones who own guns and love their freedom have training on how to shoot and use a gun properly, who do you think would win when fighting for their rights?

[JiGGaMaN]

....You should not post drivel like this without being well informed. In Switzerland, citizens are REQUIRED to keep in their home a fully (not semi) automatic assault rifle with 500 rounds of ammunition at all times. You can find pictures on the net showing students with their rifles slung over their shoulders going to school and visiting the range after classes. Their incidence of gun crimes is WAY lower than the United States. The country that has the HIGHEST ownership of guns per capita is........Israel. Gun crime rate - extremely low.
How bout The two areas in the U.S. that have the strictest gun control laws - Washington, D.C. and New York City?? Shouldnt they be little paradises where citizens can roam the streets, unafraid of gun violence?? WRONG-O!!
So you see your argument has absolutely no validity whatsoever. Actually it is a moot point, since the constitution recognizes (not grants) our God-given right to keep and bear arms. No two- bit democratic fascist and his staff of tax cheats and liars can take it away.
Is this clear enough for you?

they are employed by the military, not keeping guns just for the sake of having them.

[sloth9]

Here read this, http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-switzerland.htm

it is a compulsory law they are required to keep guns, they are for militia use, but the normal citizen can have guns too, this link clarifies it alot better, than explained above.

[stangmatt06]

[RA]

lol, yeah, so far its having the opposite effect. My brother in law cant buy shells for his .300 win mag. All out...

[Duck of Death]

they are employed by the military, not keeping guns just for the sake of having them.

...BZZZZTTTT!! WRONG AGAIN!! THANKS FOR PLAYING!

From the above link.....

<<Switzerland keeps only a small standing army, and relies much more heavily on its militia system for national defense. This means that most able-bodied civilian men of military age keep weapons at home in case of a national emergency>>

..Not at all "employed" by the military. Nice try, though - read up and come back soon!

[quarry206]

DUCK OF DEATH,but the link above destorys your claim of switzland having low gun crimes.. your claim was they were one of the highest rates of owning and low crime rate with them.... that link should them as second highest per cap

[quarry206]

...BZZZZTTTT!! WRONG AGAIN!! THANKS FOR PLAYING!

From the above link.....

<<Switzerland keeps only a small standing army, and relies much more heavily on its militia system for national defense. This means that most able-bodied civilian men of military age keep weapons at home in case of a national emergency>>

..Not at all "employed" by the military. Nice try, though - read up and come back soon!

once agian your kind of wrong.. the reason males age 19-31 have weapons if because at that age they are required to be part of their federal service. it is required.. they have a very small active army. but its the duty of males ages 19-31 to come to duty if needed


the armed forces consist of a small nucleus of about 3,600 professional staff, half of whom are either instructors or staff officers, with the rest being conscripts or volunteers. All able-bodied Swiss males aged between 19 and 31 must serve, and although entry to recruit school may be delayed due to senior secondary school, it is no longer possible to postpone it for university studies. About one third is excluded for various reasons, and these either serve in Civil Protection or Civilian Service.

so really they are the national guard of switzerland... just like america, if you read the second admendent that is what the national guard is, a states militia.. they are just cooler and get to take their weapons home without having to do weekend drills haha

[Duck of Death]

DUCK OF DEATH,but the link above destorys your claim of switzland having low gun crimes.. your claim was they were one of the highest rates of owning and low crime rate with them.... that link should them as second highest per cap

..............BZZZT!! BZZZT!! My original post said (and I quote):

......."Their incidence of gun crimes is way lower than the United States".

This is a true statement since the handgun murder rate in the U.S. is almost 4 times higher than Switzerland. This DESPITE the following facts:
1) Handgun ownership is twice as high in the US as in Switzerland.
2) Those so -called (by our esteemed attorney Eric Holder) awful assault weapons are all over Switzerland and dont seem to cause any mayhem.

[Nooomoto]

Assault weapons rock. I love mine. Fk Eric Holder.

[sloth9]

Unlike the rest of the modern world Americans value our freedom. The govt has no right to tell me if I can own a firearm and absolutely no right to make me jump through fifty hoops to get one when if I were a criminal I could find one very easily..

As Peter Griffin says,
"Although I disagree with what you say, sir. I will defend to the death your right to say it."

You are welcome to your views but we will stick with ours and I will defend mine to my death.

Oh! and fat chicks need love.... They just gotta pay. Glenn Quagmire

[mho]

relative to countries where there are strict gun ownership laws? i think not.

In Switzerland, all young men are issued automatic assault rifles that are to be kept in the possession of the individual. People sometimes walk around in public with assault rifles strapped to their backs. Yet Switzerland is among the countries with the lowest gun crime in the world. The problem is not the gun it's the people.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1566715.stm

[mho]

i can make the argument that many other countries have more freedom than the u.s., just not with respect to owning things who have a sole purpose of killing. do you not think it logical to have a name and address attached to each firearm sold? do you not think the mentally unstable should not own firearms? do you think someone would need an assault weapon rather than a simple rifle for any legitimate use? do you not think gun sales are directly correlated to gun violence?

I use my guns almost every weekend, and I have never killed anything.

[Flagg]

i won't lie i and ify on how i feel about gun controll.. i do think that there needs to be something done. but i don't feel this is the bill (because of the wording) . that should do it..

I worked in Law Enforcement, so i can honestly say i know there are alot of legal ways for ex-felones to get a gun (they can get the gun, it is illegal for them to actually have it). so yes there should be something done. but i agree with your point very fully we don't need to go overboard and make stupid laws.

IMO the best way to cure gun voilience is for judges to get more power when it comes to the death sentence, and also tough sentences for gun crimes.. prisons are a cake walk, and the avg inmate spends 17 years on death row by the way the is a cell with a TV usually. and armed robby if the first offense is usually only about a 5 year sentence. crime is out of control because of the legal system being way way way to soft, honestly one of the reasons i got out of that feild because i hated being nice to a rapist just because he could write a his parents elected offical and say he was mistreated (because that happens ALOT).. crime is up because police and prison guards have to much preasure on them to be officer friendly not to do their job..

Armed Robbery is treated with just a 5 year sentence? Thats pretty incredible, I don't know how it is anywhere else but in the UK, Armed Robbery will set you a 20 year stretch minimum!

[Duck of Death]

Armed Robbery is treated with just a 5 year sentence? Thats pretty incredible, I don't know how it is anywhere else but in the UK, Armed Robbery will set you a 20 year stretch minimum!

....... Ah, now you are getting to the crux of the matter. If bleeding heart liberals and socio/commie politicians REALLY wanted to severely cut down gun violence, they would do what the City of Richmond, Virginia did in response to being in the top five of U.S. cities with the highest murder/per/capita. They put into effect a program called "Project Exile" which would result in a MANDATORY sentence of five years in a federal prison (not easy time) for any low-life using a gun in a crime. The program was a success, resulting in an unprecedented drop in gun crime.
The question is, why do lefty politicians want more restrictive gun laws (tough on law-abiding gun owners) instead of more severe punishments for those who commit gun crimes (tough on criminals)?????
The answer, my friends, is that the agenda is ultimately to DISARM the American populace so the goverment as it exists at that time can hold sway and do as it will with no fear of reprisal from the people.