Goodbye Europe and Sovereign Nations

[Kratos]

R.I.P. Honkey Mother Land

[BgMc31]

Didn't want to go into that as it wasn't really imortant to this thread. But, some were criminals, some slaves were the result of war. Some independent slave merchants did in fact stage raids on unprotected African villages and kidnap and enslave Africans. Most professional slave traders, however, set up bases along the west African coast where they purchased slaves from Africans in exchange for firearms and other goods. Even if Africans did the capturing, the slave traders were taking advantage of their poverty. Demand was the cause of slavery anyway. So....moving on.

We are in total agreement Kratos!! The statement by Spy was a broad statement that implied the slave trade was totally the fault of Africans. He failed to point out the details of it. And we all know the devil's in the details. The slave trade evolved from its inception to when it was finally abolished and that is where the detail lay.

Anyway, you're right, that's not what this thread is about, so I'll drop it. We all know minorities are bad...and the cause of all problems...

Kratos, don't you find it ironic that the same people who complain about minorities always complaining about whites keeping them down are the same people who complain that minorities are keeping them down? It's a vicious, absurd cycle!!!

How do whites in this country (and Europeans) feel about Serbians, some Croatians, Russian, Armenians who are Muslim. They are all white and cannot be differentiated from others of European heritage?

[Flagg]

Wow..i'm shocked. I found another example from that pile of shit called "Britain"


http://www.cnn.com/video/#/world


Go there and scroll down a bit and click on "Banned from Britain"...

Jacqui Smith is a ****ing stupid **** and is one of the people helping to destroy the country. Her little speech there is ****ing pathetic "To individuals who abuse our standards and values to undermine our way of life..they are not welcome here".

Ok, so Sharia law is part of Britains way of life? Hordes of Muslim immigration continues to spiral out of control. And that is ok?


Good ****ing god...there is no hope for Europe. America is literally the last stand and it is almost as far gone.

Pile of shit? Hey **** you man, Britain might not be perfect but it's my home and you have no ****ing right to say shit like that. I mean only recently did you say how that "pile of shit Mexico" should be wiped off the map. You seem to have a problem with Israel AND the Middle East, you even complain about your own country. I mean where the **** do YOU WANT TO LIVE? Because according to you, no country is worth living in.

[Kratos]

Kratos, don't you find it ironic that the same people who complain about minorities always complaining about whites keeping them down are the same people who complain that minorities are keeping them down? It's a vicious, absurd cycle!!!

Yeah, it's a victim thing present in the mind of all races including whites. I don't think minorities are keeping me down. If white people represent a small slice of the American pie that's fine with me as long as my rights don't change as a result. The only reason why I said I'd be less afraid of a Latino dominant culture or for that matter African American, is because Islamic dominated counties have a history of a movement towards intollerance. Not to say that would happen in America or Europe, but the possibility it might is present. As long as there is a place for everyone to live in peace, I don't care who the majority is. Europe was a pretty hostile place as far as diversity not to long ago, maybe Islam can adapt too. But if you listen to some of the Muslim members (buffedguy specifically) has stated a country must be non-secular for muslims to be truely free. Well that means the laws of one religion becomes the law, and that's a condition that doesn't allow for equality. Much of this thinking exisits among Muslims that the religion must be universal in a nation and the laws of the nation must be Muslim. That's not cool with me, religious feedom is why this country was created. Islam is used as a method of control and keeping people ignorant in many nations. I'd rather not see that happen here for the sake of future generations. But, I don't see what we can do about it either.

[Flagg]

I wouldn't definitely question the validity of that first video that the only population growth in Europe and Britain is due to immigration mostly.

Let's just say this is going to be the way of things, well then that is down to nothing but Western lazy beliefs. I mean you seem itching for some massive war of "whitey" vs everyone else and call it a revolution.

[Kratos]

How do whites in this country (and Europeans) feel about Serbians, some Croatians, Russian, Armenians who are Muslim. They are all white and cannot be differentiated from others of European heritage?

I'm cool with the religion if that's what people want to practice. And I'm fine with people who practice Islam who are of color. It's the radical forms it often takes on that make me nervous. When education slips people fall on more traditional thinking and Islam is very prone to being bastardized.

[Kratos]

Pile of shit? Hey **** you man, Britain might not be perfect but it's my home and you have no ****ing right to say shit like that. I mean only recently did you say how that "pile of shit Mexico" should be wiped off the map. You seem to have a problem with Israel AND the Middle East, you even complain about your own country. I mean where the **** do YOU WANT TO LIVE? Because according to you, no country is worth living in.

I would classify Muirlo as a Libertarian Anarchist...it's kinda cool we have one on the board. Extreme positions to insight change...what's wrong with that? You never read 1984?

[Flagg]

I would classify Muirlo as a Libertarian Anarchist...it's kinda cool we have one on the board. Extreme positions to insight change...what's wrong with that? You never read 1984?

Because someone knows they are an asshole is some kind of excuse to act like one? I don't think its cool branding other countries as "shit".

[BgMc31]

I'm cool with the religion if that's what people want to practice. And I'm fine with people who practice Islam who are of color. It's the radical forms it often takes on that make me nervous. When education slips people fall on more traditional thinking and Islam is very prone to being bastardized.

What I meant Kratos is would there be such a backlash against this mass influx of immigrants if they weren't from the middle east or Africa?

[Kratos]

Because someone knows they are an asshole is some kind of excuse to act like one? I don't think its cool branding other countries as "shit".

true, people skills 101 may be in order and less unilateral language/more facts wouldn't hurt.

[Kratos]

What I meant Kratos is would there be such a backlash against this mass influx of immigrants if they weren't from the middle east or Africa?

Quite simply, no. But, that's more dependant on willingness of the immigrants to intergrate into the current society. I think in Europe Mulims tend to partition themselves, cause a financial drain, and crime. Also, they retain their culture and values rather then adapt, making for a problem for the current residents should they attain voting majority.

[BgMc31]

With that being said Kratos, there in lies the problem. I don't think its as much about Islam but rather its a browning of Europe. Islam is just the scapegoat.

There are many Europeans on this forum and it doesn't seem like they are the one's complaining about this. It seems to be some of the Americans who make a big deal out of this. Am I the only one who thinks the America is great because of our diversity, not in spite of it? And maybe Europe is just following our lead.

Recently many German cities (and Austria) have been touted as some of the greatest cities to live in and one reason was because of it's diversity and tolerance. So I'm not seeing the problem...

[Kratos]

With that being said Kratos, there in lies the problem. I don't think its as much about Islam but rather its a browning of Europe. Islam is just the scapegoat.

Not at all, what I was saying is it's not the browning, yellowing, or blackening of Europe that matters at all. The question is, will an Islamic majority allow white europeans to enjoy their current way of life and financial security? Does the demographic transformation undermine their core values, economic standing, and freedoms they value? All questions I can't answer without a crystal ball.

And to add to your above point about whites who complain about minorities keeping them down. I think the most racist black people and minorities are the ones who complain the most about racism and black people keeping them down. That's why I gave you a hard time in some of your race threads in the past until I realized you were a smart guy...and because there aren't a lot of outspoken black dudes here, you end up being a lightning rod and are forced to take a position.

But anyway, not sure why Muirlo posted this thread as it really isn't news...I mean there is no new story here. I have no idea still what he expects Americans and Europeans to do about it should they dislike the demographic shift.

[BgMc31]

Not at all, what I was saying is it's not the browning, yellowing, or blackening of Europe that matters at all. The question is, will an Islamic majority allow white europeans to enjoy their current way of life and financial security? Does the demographic transformation undermine their core values, economic standing, and freedoms they value? All questions I can't answer without a crystal ball.

I see your point. Islam does tend to portray a much more restrictive atmosphere. It's impossible to determine, you're right. Turkey is a moderate muslim country, though, correct?

And to add to your above point about whites who complain about minorities keeping them down. I think the most racist black people and minorities are the ones who complain the most about racism and black people keeping them down. That's why I gave you a hard time in some of your race threads in the past until I realized you were a smart guy...and because there aren't a lot of outspoken black dudes here, you end up being a lightning rod and are forced to take a position.

I appreciate that. I realize because I'm one of the only (if not THE only since Carlos left) I'm going to be a lighning rod, but I accept that. Minorities do complain about whites keeping them down alot. But there is a history behind that. Not so for whites doing the same thing. But of course that's my opinion and whole 'nother thread! LOL!! Glad we've gotten on level of civility with our debates Kratos, you're also a very intelligent guy. I appreciate our banter.

But anyway, not sure why Muirlo posted this thread as it really isn't news...I mean there is no new story here. I have no idea still what he expects Americans and Europeans to do about it should they dislike the demographic shift.

I think Muirlo is just angry about the course of world. It's understandable when the percieved balance of power is tipped, I guess.

[Panzerfaust]

Have Any one of you been over in Eroupe ?

Why? Jealous? And yes I have been thank you, got back from Europe in late March. Now you can finish your question

[Panzerfaust]

Pile of shit? Hey **** you man, Britain might not be perfect but it's my home and you have no ****ing right to say shit like that. I mean only recently did you say how that "pile of shit Mexico" should be wiped off the map. You seem to have a problem with Israel AND the Middle East, you even complain about your own country. I mean where the **** do YOU WANT TO LIVE? Because according to you, no country is worth living in.

You mean "it was my home" right?

[Kratos]

"Turkey is a moderate muslim country, though, correct?"

Turkey is unique in that it is a secular country, meaning like the United States there is a seperation of church and state. I spent some time in Turkey this past summer...and I don't see how it doesn't work for Muslims, it seems like a place very accepting of people from all walks of life. You have moderates walking among traditionalists. But, I don't expect it to stay that way...

http://pewresearch.org/pubs/470/can-...vive-in-turkey
http://www.latimes.com/news/printedi...a-news-comment

Some people are very happy with seperation of church and state, many are not...other Muslim nations look at Turkey as a traitor to the Muslim world. You have a clash between Islamic intellectuals and democratic...then you have a large population of common people with only a moderate level of education...mmmmm I think Turkey will stay secular as long as they can maintain positive economic growth...democracy and secularity are in constant threat. The way of life in turkey is amazingly different from America maybe with the exception of Istanbul.

There isn't really room for the American way of life in traditional Islam the way it is practiced in Muslim countries.

Also, Turkey is nearly all Muslim, and if you live there it's a good idea to convert...so religious freedom...not so much. If you're a christian or a jew or whatever else they don't really know what to make of you or why you don't understand that their god is the correct one to worship.

[countrybhoy]

You're history is a bit foggy Spy!!! Your above statement isn't totally accurate and you know it.

your RACIST . i know it you know you it anyone on here not know this .

[*RAGE*]

your RACIST . i know it you know you it anyone on here not know this .

Only white people can be RACIST...that is the law...hahahah

[xlxBigSexyxlx]

Only white people can be RACIST...that is the law...hahahah

hahaha funny.

One can say a white joke and its comedy. Say a black joke and its racism.

[eliteforce]

No i don't get tired of being angry about israel because i see it as the central problem for bothy the middle east and europe.america.

That's not my definition of Zionism, if zionism were just that then it would have been no problem; Jews, Christians, and Muslims would live in Palestine under a secular democratic government, the only thing is Arabs would have a majority in the parliament..thats exactly how the arabs wanted to solve the issue in 1947..but the west and the zionist insisted on a "jewish state" which meant the indigenous population had to get out..

it keeps them backwards in several ways, 1st: developing countries like Syria and Egypt are forced to have bloated defense budgets in order to keep up with the richer more developed Israel and all it's western financial backing, resources they could have spent developing their economies, 2nd: it creates a schism and devides the arab/muslim world between 'moderates' and 'extremists' so they wind up in a state of civil war, 3rd: it breaks up the economies and freedom of movement in the near east since the arabs do not want to deal with israel and it's continued oppression, and it creates division between the arabs and iran-which backs the 'extremist' elements which want to fight israel. 4th: when muslim immigrate to europe because their countries are depressed and backwards..it further drains those countries as the people that tend to leave are the most talented-there is an endless 'brain-drain' making the situation even worse.

and when given an opportunity to diffuse the conflict by simply withdrawing to the 1967 border and giving these people a little bit of a break, they refuse and increase the repression and apartheid..

This wasn't a thread about Israel, it was a video about demographic changes. Don't you ever get tired of being angry about Israel?

Lets be clear here, Zionism is another word for Jewish Immigration to Palestine. Correct?

"continued western/zionist oppression of that region keeps their economies depressed and their culture backwards"
How? explain this statement...because we are yet to hand over the keys to Israel (not that it isn't unavoidable when we can't afford to defend it anymore) they must have a backwards culture and keep the people of their own countries poor? Afghanistan brought trouble on itself so don't bring that crap up, maybe Iraq is another story.

You're just itching for another Israel thread, lets just not do that.

[*RAGE*]

Grab you gun and go fight for what you believe, words are words, you can talk all day long but at the end of the day you have done nothing....FIGHT IN WHAT YOU BELIEVE.....OR SHUT THE HELL UP I have nothing against you eliteforce but this sounds a lot like buffedguy///JMO

No i don't get tired of being angry about israel because i see it as the central problem for bothy the middle east and europe.america.

That's not my definition of Zionism, if zionism were just that then it would have been no problem; Jews, Christians, and Muslims would live in Palestine under a secular democratic government, the only thing is Arabs would have a majority in the parliament..thats exactly how the arabs wanted to solve the issue in 1947..but the west and the zionist insisted on a "jewish state" which meant the indigenous population had to get out..

it keeps them backwards in several ways, 1st: developing countries like Syria and Egypt are forced to have bloated defense budgets in order to keep up with the richer more developed Israel and all it's western financial backing, resources they could have spent developing their economies, 2nd: it creates a schism and devides the arab/muslim world between 'moderates' and 'extremists' so they wind up in a state of civil war, 3rd: it breaks up the economies and freedom of movement in the near east since the arabs do not want to deal with israel and it's continued oppression, and it creates division between the arabs and iran-which backs the 'extremist' elements which want to fight israel. 4th: when muslim immigrate to europe because their countries are depressed and backwards..it further drains those countries as the people that tend to leave are the most talented-there is an endless 'brain-drain' making the situation even worse.

and when given an opportunity to diffuse the conflict by simply withdrawing to the 1967 border and giving these people a little bit of a break, they refuse and increase the repression and apartheid..

[BgMc31]

your RACIST . i know it you know you it anyone on here not know this .

HAHAHAHA!!!! Tell that to my white grandparents and my white mother in law!!!

[*RAGE*]

HAHAHAHA!!!! Tell that to my white grandparents and my white mother in law!!!

I am not sure you will even see this but WTF, that dont make you any less racist. You can have a white wife and a white child but you still can be a racist, but you are always right so so so sorry ex pro football player....I am wrong, I googled it and it said I was wrong and you are right...

[Kratos]

No i don't get tired of being angry about israel because i see it as the central problem for bothy the middle east and europe.america.

That's not my definition of Zionism, if zionism were just that then it would have been no problem; Jews, Christians, and Muslims would live in Palestine under a secular democratic government, the only thing is Arabs would have a majority in the parliament..thats exactly how the arabs wanted to solve the issue in 1947....

Oh really? Zionism isn't another word for Jewish immigration...care to define it?
Muslims wanted to live in Palestine under a secular democratic government my ass. And even if that were offered they get to live under the implicit threat of an Arab controlled gvmt and the possibility it doesn't remain secular. The despised Jews were just going to live happily, all they needed was a new Arab dominated centeral gvmt...wow you're so smart, great idea.

How did it work out for Hindu's in Pakistan? In 1965, a law “The Enemy Property Act” incited the Paksitani Muslim majority and legitimized confiscation of Hindu property. During 1970-71, massacres were perpetrated upon Hindus by the Pakistani army. 25% now there are 2% Hindu who live in fear.

Jews are evil, Muslims are great...I know your point of view...the poor muslims had to give up a slice of desert to some jews so their whole world has to be shit.

Care to comment on the partition of India in 1947...I doubt it...you only care to comment on things where there is a perceived Muslim "injustice."

I doubt you ever even cared to notice that a year earlier in the case of Pakistan, Muslims were responsible for demanding partition. As part of the partition unleashing a civil war, driving millions of people from their homes, destroying the vision of a non-sectarian united India, and creating a new nationality based on religion. Isn't that what you say the Jews did? Oh wait it's Muslims so it's all good right?

How about unlike Israel Pakistan has no Muslim connection...not like Israel with a national existence for 1,500 years predating Islam.


Estimates of the number of Hindu civilians killed as a result of the events around the separation of East Pakistan and its achievement of independence as Bangladesh are between 2 and 3 million. Millions of Hindu women were raped.

The number of killed in the wars and immense dislocation of populations dwarfs the Israeli-Arab conflict. But, you don't want to talk about that conflict do you. Which is why no promise of peace is perceived as equally beneficial to Muslims as they are the aggrieved party and are entitled to everything.

When it comes to the 1948 partition in Palestine Muslims rejected it totally and any possibility of living in peace alongside a tiny Jewish state. Instead they aided in the invasion of the country by the regular armies of six Arab states sending their homeland into war and ending as defeated refugees. Had they accepted it, Palestinian Arabs would today be enjoying the rights of their own independent homeland without the bloodshed of the last sixty years a minority of them would be citizens of a moretolerant Israel, free from threat of warfare and terrorism.

but but the west helps the jews...the west loves the jews...what about the Muslims we're brown, that's why you hate us becuase the Jews have political power and white skin. Ummm, what about the fact that they're grossly outnumbered and the Muslim countries have proven time and again their intention to blow Israel up? Who needs the help? Stop trying to blow the place up and we won't need to help them. Agree to peace with the Jews.

[Kratos]

it keeps them backwards in several ways, 1st: developing countries like Syria and Egypt are forced to have bloated defense budgets in order to keep up with the richer more developed Israel and all it's western financial backing, resources they could have spent developing their economies..

Hey re-re, you didn't notice over a third of Egypt's military budget comes from the USA. Not to mention we give them like 2 billion in aid in exchange for not developing nuclear weapons, when their whole military budget out of Egyption tax payer pockets is only like 2.5 billion.

God hates you, kill yourself.

[Kratos]

you have done nothing.........SHUT THE HELL UP

Yeah, I think you should do that.

[amcon]

Ummmm.. slaves were bought from blacks that enslaved them, whites did not send over an army to capture and bring them back..

One tribe raiding and enslaving the blacks to be sold to the merchant ships..

history.. the truth be told..

good post... let the truth be told not hid behind pc crap

[Kratos]

your RACIST . i know it you know you it anyone on here not know this .

I don't think that was called for.

[amcon]

hahaha funny.

One can say a white joke and its comedy. Say a black joke and its racism.

ummm does this mean we can t say black jokes? even if they are funny? well, im going to go watch "BET tv" and read "ebony mag". imagine if we had whitey tv or ivory mag ... i dont like the double standards... so screw them all say the joke white or black


it should be a good thread

[BgMc31]

good post... let the truth be told not hid behind pc crap

Like Kratos already posted, that's not what this thread is about. But if you insist upon posting this crap, do you seriously believe that no Africans were kidnapped by Europeans and sold into slavery? Too much evidence shows otherwise!!!

[Kratos]

\ 2nd: it creates a schism and devides the arab/muslim world between 'moderates' and 'extremists' so they wind up in a state of civil war,

3rd: it breaks up the economies and freedom of movement in the near east since the arabs do not want to deal with israel and it's continued oppression, and it creates division between the arabs and iran-which backs the 'extremist' elements which want to fight israel.
4th: when muslim immigrate to europe because their countries are depressed and backwards..it further drains those countries as the people that tend to leave are the most talented-there is an endless 'brain-drain' making the situation even worse.

and when given an opportunity to diffuse the conflict by simply withdrawing to the 1967 border and giving these people a little bit of a break, they refuse and increase the repression and apartheid..

2. Anger is a personal problem.

3. Anger and the radicalism that results still a personal problem. Have no clue what you're talking about freedom of movement and broken economies...again God hates you kill yourself.

4. If smart people want to leave a shithole country because it's fvcked, we should blame Israel...God hates you kill yourslef.

[BgMc31]

ummm does this mean we can t say black jokes? even if they are funny? well, im going to go watch "BET tv" and read "ebony mag". imagine if we had whitey tv or ivory mag ... i dont like the double standards... so screw them all say the joke white or black


it should be a good thread

Imagine that, considering BET is owned by whites and so is Ebony mag!!! Ignorance is bliss I guess!!!

[Kratos]

ummm does this mean we can t say black jokes? even if they are funny? well, im going to go watch "BET tv" and read "ebony mag". imagine if we had whitey tv or ivory mag ... i dont like the double standards... so screw them all say the joke white or black


it should be a good thread

where the heck are you trying to take this? I found spy's comment to have no bearing on what I was talking about, and it confused me...but if you liked it great.

[amcon]

Like Kratos already posted, that's not what this thread is about. But if you insist upon posting this crap, do you seriously believe that no Africans were kidnapped by Europeans and sold into slavery? Too much evidence shows otherwise!!!

just like white skinned people were too... so what should happen now? should we as white people just give the black skinned people compensation or something to make it better?

[amcon]

Imagine that, considering BET is owned by whites and so is Ebony mag!!! Ignorance is bliss I guess!!!

why would you say they are owned by whites - isnt owning a race illegal? where is that proof?

and you under stand the point right ? pls tell me you do

[amcon]

where the heck are you trying to take this? I found spy's comment to have no bearing on what I was talking about, and it confused me...but if you liked it great.

then why did you comment? what was your point?

[BgMc31]

just like white skinned people were too... so what should happen now? should we as white people just give the black skinned people compensation or something to make it better?

What white skinned people were kidnapped and sold into slavery. Indentured servitude is totally different than the African slave trade. Please do some research before speaking on topics you know nothing about. Besides, Kratos cleared up this argument in a very short, terse post on page one. Look it up and read it. Besides, no one was asking for reperations or complaining about slavery. As a matter of fact, that is not what this thread is about so why even take it there? Or maybe you're just a bandwagon jumper trying to stir shit up...

[BgMc31]

why would you say they are owned by whites - isnt owning a race illegal? where is that proof?

and you under stand the point right ? pls tell me you do

Because BET Tv is owned by Viacom, the same company that owns MTV. Ebony mag is owned by the same company that owns Time magazine. Both companies are headed by whites, not blacks. Neither owns a race but a product. Again, what is your point of this?

[Kratos]

then why did you comment? what was your point?

if you can't figure it out, it's over your head and not my problem to explain

I just can't imagine how this thread could become an excuse to air grievances with black people...and you seem to have issues...save it for another thread. The thing with me and eliteforce goes back a ways that's why I'm being a dick to him. He made it personal by calling me every word for racist in the book, and I find him quite ignorant. Just asking you to stay on topic, black people is not the topic.