A new mini Israel in Asia

[Kratos]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/284358.stm

World: Asia-Pacific

Philippine dream of Islamic state

It could be East Asia's first revolutionary Islamic state

By Simon Ingram in Mindanao
The Philippine island Mindanao might yet become east Asia's first revolutionary Islamic state.



Simon Ingram: Half the armed forces are deployed to fight the MILF
Here in its heartland, the Philippine government is the enemy, and armed resistance a way of life.

We were granted rare access to this remote stronghold, where dirt tracks lead through rugged jungle terrain, and past the fields that provide a living for Camp Abu Bakar's civilian inhabitants.

On Wednesday President Estrada of the Philippines is also due to begin a visit to the island to try to push forward peace talks between the government and the rebel Moro Islamic Liberation Front (MILF), which is demanding an independent state for the Philippines' six million Muslim minority.

A fragile ceasefire has been in place since serious clashes between the army and the MILF erupted in late January.

Tough talking

Our visit had been carefully-arranged, but there was tight security even so; the leaders of MILF are wanted men and take few chances.

We had come to meet Salamat Hashim, the veteran MILF leader who rejected previous deals offering autonomy to the Philippines' Muslim minority.

He still insists that the group's demand for full independence is not negotiable.

Salamat Hashim, chairman of the Moro Islamic Liberation Front, said: "We have lost confidence in the Philippine government.

"We do not want the Philippine government to oppress our people forever. We do not want to fight the Philippine government. We are asking, we are demanding a civilised way of solving the problem," he added.

Holy struggle

In the camp's training academy nearby, new recruits digest in Arabic the borrowed lexicon of holy struggle.



Civilians are caught in the cross-fire
It is an anti-colonialist creed that Islamic freedom fighters from Algeria to Afghanistan fight and die for.

In Mindanao too, the rhetoric is backed by a formidable arsenal of weapons; some are manufactured by the rebels themselves.

In late January, artillery and rocket exchanges between the MILF and the Philippines army erupted yet again.

The renewed fighting left dozens of people dead but may have re-galvanised efforts to end a conflict that has drained government resources.

'One country, one people'

Half the armed forces are deployed to deny the MILF its separatist ambitions. But if the soldiers' resolve is weakening, they're not showing it.

Captain Julieto Ando, the Philippines Army spokesman said:- "We do not want independence in Mindanao. We must have only one armed force, we must have one country, we must have only one people. Its only the Philippines.

As always, it is the civilian population caught in the crossfire who end up bearing the heaviest sacrifice.

In a makeshift camp beside a main road, we found some of the 80,000 people who had been turned into temporary refugees by the recent fighting.

Nearby, the village mosque had also been damaged by gunfire - the kind of desecration that seemed certain to deepen the anger of the local population.

And this is what some of the refugees will have to return home to - shattered homes and the task of rebuilding broken lives. In addition, villages like this one now find themselves in the front-line of battle between two opposing armies.

To the Muslims of this beautiful but troubled land, the Philippine army is another foreign invader - just like the Spanish and the Americans before them.

Today, they may be a minority, but poverty and a sense of injustice has instilled a new commitment to do battle in the name of Islam.

As the latest Muslim volunteers train for war, moves towards a peace deal also gather pace. But unless the rhetoric softens, a compromise will remain elusive. A centuries' old struggle may be entering an even more dangerous phase.

[Kratos]

A nation of 80 million people and 6 million Muslims.
The Island of Mindanao itself is not of Muslim majority.

[Panzerfaust]

Asians won't put up with that shit, China would eradicate the vermin should they ever try to pull that shit on them.

[Flagg]

Okay so im assuming that MILF (what an unfortunate name) demands that the whole region of the Philippines to basically become a Muslim state and not just an island?

What a shame that this mentality has infested this country. I've just been reading some history on this place. It's the 12th most populace country in the world and boasts a vast mixture of different races and immigrants, has good ties with the rest of the world and has a decent GDP with ambitions to grow. And it seems because the population is 90% christians, there in lies the problem. This country has gone through hardships and im impressed to learn that in 1986 the People Power Revolution occured. The people protested outside of EDSA to oppose the dictatorship of Ferdinand Marcos. Corazon Aquino not only defeated Marcos in the next election and became the first female President of the Phillipines or anywhere else in Asia. Marcos and his cronies departed to Hawaii in exile and a new age of Democracy and government reform began. This was hampered by debt, corruption, communist insurgency and islamic seperatism. Since then they've clawed their way out of debt and boasts a respectable GDP of about 161 billion dollars a year. It has a Unitary state of government but who is to say that that is unfair compared to a Federal government? The UK is a unitary state, despite the fact we try and pass ourselves off as otherwise.

This group make me laugh. They mention Spain, uh that was 500 years ago guys, then they mention the Americans which was 100 years ago. Did they completely forget that the Philippines gained independence from America after WW II? Plus the PEOPLE ousted Ferdinand Marcos. Hopefully im not going to sound ignorant at this point as I don't know much about current affairs in the Phillipenes, but are Muslims being oppresed? Or is this just Hamas in another form, demanding this and that and using words like "Holy" to justify murder? You would think that it was only Muslims that have suffered hardships in the Phillipines over the last 100 years the way this group is carrying on. I've got a better solution for these people, why don't they make a point like everyone else did in 1986 instead of wanting to murder your way to power.

[Kratos]

Asians won't put up with that shit, China would eradicate the vermin should they ever try to pull that shit on them.

What do you mean? Filipinos are Asian, and they have already commitied to giving into demands. It's just a mater of time, autonomy will not be enough, one island will become two and so on. China, when forced with this type of warfare will most likely do the same.

http://story.irishsun.com/index.php/...d/316513/cs/1/

[Kratos]

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/003925.php

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/oth...rld-stage.html

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...0312-cfr01.htm

[thegodfather]

, but are Muslims being oppresed? Or is this just Hamas in another form, demanding this and that and using words like "Holy" to justify murder? You would think that it was only Muslims that have suffered hardships in the Phillipines over the last 100 years the way this group is carrying on. I've got a better solution for these people, why don't they make a point like everyone else did in 1986 instead of wanting to murder your way to power.

Im confused by that statement...Hamas fights because Muslims ARE actually being oppressed by the Israeli state, and committing serious human rights violations against 2 million palestinian people, which are starved for food, water, oil, & medical care. Israel uses these things as a weapon against 2 million innocent people. Hamas is born out of that oppression. You really cannot draw a line in the sand between killing because its "Holy" and killing to "defend your country" which you stole in 1946 from the very people you're trying to defend it from.

You have essentially tied to compare apples to oranges. You are comparing the Phillipines, which was a sovereign state prior to the secessionist movement by the Muslims. The Phillipines has a right to govern its land and to quell that movement within its border. Israel on the other hand, is fighting people which it displaced from their own land. Israel was a not a sovereign state prior to the movement.

[Kratos]

If you think giving up Israel is the soloution to all Islamic radicalism...no...they can be mad at the opression of the free Filipino gvmt, the Chinese communist gvmt...pretty much everything fuels the anger of the victimized Muslims.

[Kratos]

The Phillipines has a right to govern its land and to quell that movement within its border. Israel on the other hand, is fighting people which it displaced from their own land. Israel was a not a sovereign state prior to the movement.

Yes, and Jews were also a part of the state of Palesitine prior to Israel. There are refugees and non muslims in the new state within the Phillipines that will be created just like Israel. This new state was not a sovereign state prior to this movement.

[Kratos]

Im confused by that statement...Hamas fights because Muslims ARE actually being oppressed by the Israeli state,


Hamas is born out of that oppression. You really cannot draw a line in the sand between killing because its "Holy" and killing to "defend your country"

which you stole in 1946 from the very people you're trying to defend it from.
.

Yes they are being oppressed by the Israeli state

That oppression was born out of war waged by the arab states on a much smaller Israel.

1946?
they were living there at the time the UN granted Israel statehood along demographic lines...stole is a bias way to put it, since under the British Mandate it was very restrictive of jews buying land and prior to that impossible...the whole way land was occupied is different there then the West...Individual ownership isn't really an option. The land was given to them although a much smaller peice because they were being oppressed and maybe in turn were oppressing. For whatever reason the two groups were not happy living togther and had a conflict errupting. The boders were expanded when attacked and their attackers lost ground creating the oppression. It's much more complicated then you are making it.

[Kratos]

The ETIM would be quite happy to make the Xinjiang province in northwest China an Islamic state, even though the Islamic majority is marginal. Time will tell if they succeed Muirlo. But, this state is justified because they are oppressed under anything but an Islamic state. Israel's creation was only evil because it was not Muslims creating it.

[Kratos]

Look into Indian partition of Pakistan if you really want to see some bloody numbers. Muslims are grabbing chunks of land up to present day and look at all the worldwide sympathy they generate over the loss of Israel (a chunk of desert, and I don't care what they tell you, it wasn't all that important to the religion) if you want to talk propoganda look at both sides. The Muslims are far far far worse and successful.

[MuscleScience]

Is buffguy still here or did he leave the site?

[IM708]

Is buffguy still here or did he leave the site?

He gets torn to peices every time he starts preaching.

[Flagg]

Im confused by that statement...Hamas fights because Muslims ARE actually being oppressed by the Israeli state, and committing serious human rights violations against 2 million palestinian people, which are starved for food, water, oil, & medical care. Israel uses these things as a weapon against 2 million innocent people. Hamas is born out of that oppression. You really cannot draw a line in the sand between killing because its "Holy" and killing to "defend your country" which you stole in 1946 from the very people you're trying to defend it from.

You have essentially tied to compare apples to oranges. You are comparing the Phillipines, which was a sovereign state prior to the secessionist movement by the Muslims. The Phillipines has a right to govern its land and to quell that movement within its border. Israel on the other hand, is fighting people which it displaced from their own land. Israel was a not a sovereign state prior to the movement.

Prehaps I should have reworded that better, but I would seriously question if Hamas give a shit about any of the innocents killed as they seemed to be fueled more by archaic pride. Naturally Israel aren't helping the cause by retaliating to anything done by Hamas. It's like two people standing infront of each other, one person slaps one in the face, the other punches the other in the face, but both refuse to back down. I don't know if MILF are the result of Muslims being persecuted in the Phillipines. Here is what is said about the matter on this site:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/022789.php

I cannot see what the problem is. Muslims are already free in the Philippines. Everyone is free in the Philippines. It is not the same place as it was 500 years ago, 100 years ago or even 23 years ago. I mean are there serious talks in making the south an Islamic State? I guarantee that would not be satisfactory to the rebels until the entire region was one Islamic State. I dont think the Phillipeno government should cave into any demands but then what is the alternative? Turn the place into a War Zone?

[Panzerfaust]

What do you mean? Filipinos are Asian, and they have already commitied to giving into demands. It's just a mater of time, autonomy will not be enough, one island will become two and so on. China, when forced with this type of warfare will most likely do the same.

http://story.irishsun.com/index.php/...d/316513/cs/1/

I mean "Asians" as a whole, mainly China, perhaps Japan as well. They would not take an ounce of shit from these vermin. At least when you go to China or Japan you can actually tell you are in a foreign country.

I guess what I am trying to convey is that these two countries are not in such an advanced state of *cough* "diversity".

I consider that a good thing.

[Kratos]

I mean "Asians" as a whole, mainly China, perhaps Japan as well. They would not take an ounce of shit from these vermin.

You mean take a real stand against Muslims
I though you were smarter than that
Sorry to inform you, you just lost your next election, because you brought terrorism to the country and added fuel to the propaganda machine.
And, they were looking for a replacement for Geroge Bush's face on their dart boards in Iran...It's you now.

Nope, China will end up at the peace treaty table with these radicals at some point...just like many countries to follow.

[eliteforce]

You keep posting this version of history on multiple threads hoping this distortion will stick even after your called on it ..

Lets again go through the real history of 1946-1948..

The british and western nations at that point being the UN, called for partition of Palestine into a 'jewish state' and an 'palestinian state' dividing the land 51/49, in the jewish 'half' the population was at least 40% Palestinian.. there was no real explanation given as to what happens to these people and their land, the British "Peel" commission recommended they be expelled!

The Arabs rejected this and instead counter offered a western democracy; in other words since Palestinians were 75-80% of the population, even after successive waves of Jewish refugees , so they said lets make the country a democracy and the Jews will be a minority in the parliament, and this country will continue to be Palestine. The Arabs were also willing to allow an extended UN peacekeeping force to stay in the country to make sure there was no "holocaust" or sectarian violence..indefinitely(similar to what has been done in kosovo or the balkins in the 90s)..so you can't say they weren't sympathetic to the plight of the jews, they just didn't want to suffer as a result of it since they had nothing to do with it.

no resolution.

The British succumb to zionist terrorism and left the country (leaving the Palestinians mostly disarmed and the zionists armed) and the Jews were much better organized and much richer anyways with all their western support.. they took advantage of this and launched a vicious ethnic cleansing operation.. the arabs did not immediately attempt an invasion as soon as the british left, they invaded after droves of refugees were streaming across their borders.

Today, even after repeated ethnic cleansing Israel/Palestine is still 50% Palestinian.. but is a racist apartheid state with the Palestinians confined in ridiculously small pieces of land with unequal access to everything from employment to health care and no land rights.. supposedly there is this 2 state solution on the table..

The Palestinians are not "the muslims" they are the mostly muslim and some christian people in that country that have their own issues, it doesn't make things better if muslims do something somewhere else. The oppresion does inflame those other situations though.

Something that happens on some tiny mosquito plaged tropical island in the Philippines it doesn't change anything in Palestine. This is some little guerila group in the Philippines, the Philippine army can come and clear them out anytime., that whole country is a Philippine sovereignty. guerilla groups also control swaths of south america and burma..it's easy to do under the cover of a thick jungle.

Kratos I doubt you are college educated, if you were you might have taken an introductory Philosophy/Logic class in your first or second year.. and this fallacy your posting is one of the first things they teach you.. the fallacy that 2 wrongs make a right .

Yes they are being oppressed by the Israeli state

That oppression was born out of war waged by the arab states on a much smaller Israel.

1946?
they were living there at the time the UN granted Israel statehood along demographic lines...stole is a bias way to put it, since under the British Mandate it was very restrictive of jews buying land and prior to that impossible...the whole way land was occupied is different there then the West...Individual ownership isn't really an option. The land was given to them although a much smaller peice because they were being oppressed and maybe in turn were oppressing. For whatever reason the two groups were not happy living togther and had a conflict errupting. The boders were expanded when attacked and their attackers lost ground creating the oppression. It's much more complicated then you are making it.

[eliteforce]

and one more thing back in the 1940s there was no 'islamic fundamentalism' it's something that has developed mostly since the 1970s in parallel to zionism and it's related wars in the ME.. i don't thing anyone can deny that..that zionism created 'islamic extremism' or militancy that is not just against israel, but against the west in general, or any country that has good relations with israel and its western backers, mainly the US

[thegodfather]

and one more thing back in the 1940s there was no 'islamic fundamentalism' it's something that has developed mostly since the 1970s in parallel to zionism and it's related wars in the ME.. i don't thing anyone can deny that..that zionism created 'islamic extremism' or militancy that is not just against israel, but against the west in general, or any country that has good relations with israel and its western backers, mainly the US

Thank you eliteforce, someone who has the credentials to speak on issues like this. It has become taboo to even mention that Israel might be in the wrong. The issue is very similar to that in the US where if you question the war or our interventionist foreign policy you are unpatriotic and a "Blame America First" person. If you question the hate motivated apartheid policy of Israel, you are anti-semitic! It makes absolutely no sense and it is an ad hominem attack that side steps addressing the issues. The Arab/Muslim people have been quite patient, 1946 to 1970 of being killed and oppressed before they actually started to stand up for themselves.

"They want to come over here"

"They hate us because we are free and prosperous"

"We need stability in the middle east"

Riiiight...

[eliteforce]

your welcome, my comments are very seldom appreciated here..

[JiGGaMaN]

Im confused by that statement...Hamas fights because Muslims ARE actually being oppressed by the Israeli state,are there? theres something over a million in israel right now that enjoy equal rights and seats in parliaent and not 'dhimy' status

and committing serious human rights violations against 2 million palestinian people, which are starved for food, water, oil, & medical care.any evidence of that? or should i pull up a hand full of 'hamas raids UN aid supplies articles?

Israel uses these things as a weapon against 2 million innocent people you didnt mention which things in particular. id like to know.. Hamas is born out of that oppression.of course, every oppressed minority arms themselves to the teeth rather than empowering their community. thats why all the latinos and black people in the US are blowing stuff up and targeting civilians.

You really cannot draw a line in the sand between killing because its "Holy" and killing to "defend your country" which you stole in 1946 from the very people you're trying to defend it from. its 1948 my friend. take a look at the size of the middle east relative to the size of israel please... would you be all for it if native americans started smuggling in surface to air missiles and bombing up the states?

You have essentially tied to compare apples to oranges. i agree on this point

You are comparing the Phillipines, which was a sovereign state prior to the secessionist movement by the Muslims. The Phillipines has a right to govern its land and to quell that movement within its border. Israel on the other hand, is fighting people which it displaced from their own land.[i would totally be upset if i was displaced from a state the size of connecticut, where every neighboring country has the same legal system, ideology, religion and language

Israel was a not a sovereign state prior to the movement.the movement? of course its apparently obvious to everyone with such an ambiguous statement to determine what in gods name that even means

good day to you sir. we may debate further if you wish.

[NightWolf]

Im confused by that statement...Hamas fights because Muslims ARE actually being oppressed by the Israeli state, and committing serious human rights violations against 2 million palestinian people, which are starved for food, water, oil, & medical care. Israel uses these things as a weapon against 2 million innocent people. Hamas is born out of that oppression. You really cannot draw a line in the sand between killing because its "Holy" and killing to "defend your country" which you stole in 1946 from the very people you're trying to defend it from.

You have essentially tied to compare apples to oranges. You are comparing the Phillipines, which was a sovereign state prior to the secessionist movement by the Muslims. The Phillipines has a right to govern its land and to quell that movement within its border. Israel on the other hand, is fighting people which it displaced from their own land. Israel was a not a sovereign state prior to the movement.

And this is where the thread goes OFFTOPIC.

Back to muslims wanting a piece (for now, then the whole country) of the philippines.

[eliteforce]

There is no comparison to Blacks and Latinos in the US to Israeli oppresion of Palestinians..America is not officially a WHITE state, there may be some racism in America, but Blacks and Latinos are citizens and the US and have equal rights protection, they vote they are represented in the government.. Israel is an aphartied state, even that million arabs that have israeli citizenship- they are not allowed in the cabinet, and their parties are always in the opposition because the jewish parties don't invite them into the government, they wind up with no influence.. and the issue is that other 4 million that are in the bantustans- not the ones with israeli citizenship.

and it's not an issue that muslims will get the whole of the philipines, the Philippines has a big mechanized army, so does Thailand..these muslim separatists are a small guerrilla force attempting to get a small southern part or island..there is no major population center down there or city, just some jungle with scattered villages..there is no real threat there, just a disenfranchised minority. so cut the crap that they're going to take over the world.

[Kratos]

Thank you eliteforce, someone who has the credentials to speak on issues like this. ...

I enjoy a great number of your posts godfather but saying eliteforce has the credentials to speak on issues like this to me is stating you do not. He is a one sided Muslim propagandist.

[Kratos]

The Arabs rejected this and instead counter offered a western democracy; in other words since Palestinians were 75-80% of the population, even after successive waves of Jewish refugees , so they said lets make the country a democracy and the Jews will be a minority in the parliament, and this country will continue to be Palestine. The Arabs were also willing to allow an extended UN peacekeeping force to stay in the country to make sure there was no "holocaust" or sectarian

Please provide source and documetation of this offer



The British succumb to zionist terrorism and left the country (leaving the Palestinians mostly disarmed and the zionists armed) and the Jews were much better organized and much richer anyways with all their western support..

The Brits didn't succumb to anything, they tried to create peace between Arabs and Jews and when they couldn't they tossed it to the UN to settle.

they took advantage of this and launched a vicious ethnic cleansing operation.. the arabs did not immediately attempt an invasion as soon as the british left, they invaded after droves of refugees were streaming across their borders.

Again source please...The Un declared Israel a state May 14 1948, the day the British mandate expried...Over the next few days, approximately 1,000 Lebanese, 5,000 Syrian, 5,000 Iraqi, and 10,000 Egyptian troops invaded the newly-established state. Four thousand Jordanian troops invaded the Corpus separatum region encompassing Jerusalem and its environs, as well as areas designated as part of the Arab state by the UN partition plan. They were aided by corps of volunteers from Saudi Arabia, Libya and Yemen.

umm, war was declared after the UN vote in 1947, so how long did they have time to do an ethnic house cleaning .

This thread is not about Israel itself, please stick to the topic. If you wish to justify the actions of the people involved using Israel, I really don't see how rebeling against the filo gvmt helps their cause in Israel. If they wish to be under Islamic law there are plenty of places in the world to live that way without infringing on the rights of the majority in this region of not only this Island nation but the island itself.

[Kratos]

Kratos I doubt you are college educated, if you were you might have taken an introductory Philosophy/Logic class in your first or second year.. and this fallacy your posting is one of the first things they teach you.. the fallacy that 2 wrongs make a right .

Wow, what a suprize another personal attack, oh wait maybe it isn't a suprize since you've done this many times in the past. I can't really hold it against you at this point though, since now I too have crossed that line.

2 wrongs may not make a right but they do make hipocrisy for a religion constantly propagandizing martyrdom.

[Kratos]

There is no comparison to Blacks and Latinos in the US to Israeli oppresion of Palestinians..America is not officially a WHITE state, there may be some racism in America, but Blacks and Latinos are citizens and the US and have equal rights protection.

So you agree that if Israel is a Jewish state and a democracy they are opressive. But, a majority Arab democracy is not . And all the muslim states around the world as well as this future one are not .

[Kratos]

and one more thing back in the 1940s there was no 'islamic fundamentalism' it's something that has developed mostly since the 1970s in parallel to zionism and it's related wars in the ME.. i don't thing anyone can deny that..that zionism created 'islamic extremism' or militancy that is not just against israel, but against the west in general, or any country that has good relations with israel and its western backers, mainly the US

This is a totally false statement, and a major part of propaganda that the west created fundametalism through support of Israel and that it will somehow go away if we should back away.

In fact, Saudi Arabia was a fundametalist state by 1930 and the spread has been constant hundreds of years, with very small roots. The movement began in 1740, and was a movement of Islam losing it's way, not loss of Israel. The Al-Saud dynasty conquered and unified the various provinces on the Arabian peninsula. Mecca and Medina have long been under Wahhabi control...which gave Wahhabis great influence on Muslim culture and thinking.

It is not limited to Israel or the west...It includes a hard line view to fight anyone, that even anyone in their own religion should disagree with their views should be brought with violence.

The west and any moderate or liberal Muslims oppress these people by our existance and little to do with Israel.

I think this is the most effective peice of propoganda against the people like Godfather.

[Kratos]

This is some little guerila group in the Philippines, the Philippine army can come and clear them out anytime., that whole country is a Philippine sovereignty.
.

and it's not an issue that muslims will get the whole of the philipines, the Philippines has a big mechanized army, so does Thailand..these muslim separatists are a small guerrilla force attempting to get a small southern part or island..there is no major population center down there or city, just some jungle with scattered villages..there is no real threat there, just a disenfranchised minority. so cut the crap that they're going to take over the world.

Your view on the subject of the thread itself, is it's insignificat and irrelivent...radical Islam is not causing a major problem to the Philippines and they could deal with it easily any time they want with their big mechanized army....the people are oppressed there no people who live there anyway except the oppressed...noted, thankyou for your participation, although I think most reasonable people would disagree. I think if you reviewed any of the relivent facts, you'd find yourself wrong.

[NightWolf]

and it's not an issue that muslims will get the whole of the philipines, the Philippines has a big mechanized army, so does Thailand..these muslim separatists are a small guerrilla force attempting to get a small southern part or island..there is no major population center down there or city, just some jungle with scattered villages..there is no real threat there, just a disenfranchised minority. so cut the crap that they're going to take over the world.

Are u really blind to every fault a muslim does? this comment
by you has to be the most idiotic thing i have ever read.

Oh so the muslims only want a small southern part of the Philippines,
not the whole country. Well i guess that makes sense, and its not
that big of a deal

Why should the Philippines just hand over a part of there country?
Even if it was only a toxic wasteland, its still the Philippines gov that
owns it, not some muslim military group that is trying to claim it with
violence and killing.

[JiGGaMaN]

There is no comparison to Blacks and Latinos in the US to Israeli oppresion of Palestinians..America is not officially a WHITE state, there may be some racism in America, but Blacks and Latinos are citizens and the US and have equal rights protectionas do muslims in israel....,
they vote they are represented in the government.. Israel is an aphartied state, even that million arabs that have israeli citizenship- they are not allowed in the cabinetwanna bet on that?, and their parties are always in the opposition because the jewish parties don't invite them into the government invite them into the government? its a ****ing democracy, they get elected to government, its not 'an invite only affair',
they wind up with no influence.. and the issue is that other 4 million that are in the bantustans-well if the strategy wasnt kill everyone, they may very well have had a legitimate state/cause by now
not the ones with israeli citizenship.

and it's not an issue that muslims will get the whole of the philipines, the Philippines has a big mechanized army, so does Thailand..these muslim separatists are a small guerrilla force attempting to get a small southern part or island..there is no major population center down there or city, just some jungle with scattered villages..ok well im going to have native americans start launching katyushas into new york for you...
there is no real threat there, just a disenfranchised minority.do they have no rights? please, evidence. i would like some
so cut the crap that they're going to take over the world.agreed

go again, shall we?

[Flagg]

There is no comparison to Blacks and Latinos in the US to Israeli oppresion of Palestinians..America is not officially a WHITE state, there may be some racism in America, but Blacks and Latinos are citizens and the US and have equal rights protection, they vote they are represented in the government.. Israel is an aphartied state, even that million arabs that have israeli citizenship- they are not allowed in the cabinet, and their parties are always in the opposition because the jewish parties don't invite them into the government, they wind up with no influence.. and the issue is that other 4 million that are in the bantustans- not the ones with israeli citizenship.

and it's not an issue that muslims will get the whole of the philipines, the Philippines has a big mechanized army, so does Thailand..these muslim separatists are a small guerrilla force attempting to get a small southern part or island..there is no major population center down there or city, just some jungle with scattered villages..there is no real threat there, just a disenfranchised minority. so cut the crap that they're going to take over the world.

I beg to differ. Why the Hell should the Philippine government give this Guerilla Force (your words) any part of the Philippines? Because they demanded it? And from the sounds of it, why would one region be good enough? It wouldn't. They would not be happy until they had control of the entire country. And the Philippines would be out of their mind to allow this group, who are in their own rights terrorists, one of the islands to do christ knows what on.

If you lived next door to an over bearing bullying neighbour who said "give me your house or i'll burn it down" would you give him a room to appease him?

[eliteforce]

muslims in "Israel" do not have equal rights protection; they have no civil rights laws there, in otherwords it's prefectly legal to discriminate there based on race or religion..it's a "jewish state" , all the laws there reflect that, best example is when land was confiscated from the Arab citizens of Israel and not the Jewish citizens, it was then given to "kibutzis" or given to jews, land that stays in arab hands is taxed at a much higher rate because it's not a kibutz.. the education system there is segregated, there are arab schools and jewish scools (except for a small number that is mixed) and the arab sector always receives less funding, the city of nazareth with a population growth rate higher than nazareth 'eliat'-a jewish town israel built next door to it, is given much less room for expansion, in short the crowd arab area's and public companies like water and power discriminate in employment..and we're only talking about the Palestinian Israelis here not the ones in the bantustans which have it far worse..in short if this was done in in the US (like in the south) it would be called a KuKluxKlan state or neonazi state..

native americans or blacks do not fire katushas because there is no oppression there, there is no comparison to Palestinians.. and the blacks in america rioted and burned down half of LA once just because a black motorist was beaten! the Palestinians on the other hand are routinly tortured, being beaten is a minor incident over there..

and i'm not saying muslims should be given any part of the philipines , i'm just saying they are not "taking over" the place by force, like a marching army .. the soverignty there is the Philipines and it's just a guerilla group hidden in the jungle like in burma or south america.

[Kratos]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...04/2534859.htm

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...28/2554182.htm

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...28/2528758.htm

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...04/2507608.htm

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...18/2495294.htm
"Peace talks between the MILF and the government have been suspended since August, when the rebels launched large-scale attacks on Mindanao island that left over half a million displaced and killed nearly 300 combatants and civilians."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...31/2457332.htm

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...01/2457724.htm

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...25/2455089.htm

This is all news in 2009

[Kratos]

moderate and liberal muslims should wake up, these aren't your brothers, you'd be a target too

[jbm]

I'm from the Philippines. IMO! Muslims asking for independence is bvlshit and a big no no!
In 6 million Muslims only 10 to 15% want their independence only the MILF (Moro Islamic Liberation Front). Here where I live Luzon Area northern part of the country lot's of civilian Muslims are migrating due to MILF and Govt war. I have lots of Muslim civilian friends from Mindanao they told me that MILF is supported by other Muslim nations that's why they have the money, supplies and other stuff that they need. I just can't figure out why our government can't solve this problem our government have land and air supremacy compared to MILF only hand guns and grenades. I think this is because everything is about politics when election is near politicians here needs the support of MILF in Mindanao to manipulate the Mindanao polls. IMO! the our govt must declare all out war and no more peace talks, majority of our money is wasted in this useless problem I think since 1960's.

[Kratos]

muslims in "Israel" do not have equal rights protection; they have no civil rights laws there, in otherwords it's prefectly legal to discriminate there based on race or religion..it's a "jewish state" , all the laws there reflect that, best example is when land was confiscated from the Arab citizens of Israel and not the Jewish citizens, it was then given to "kibutzis" or given to jews, land that stays in arab hands is taxed at a much higher rate because it's not a kibutz.. the education system there is segregated, there are arab schools and jewish scools (except for a small number that is mixed) and the arab sector always receives less funding, the city of nazareth with a population growth rate higher than nazareth 'eliat'-a jewish town israel built next door to it, is given much less room for expansion, in short the crowd arab area's and public companies like water and power discriminate in employment..and we're only talking about the Palestinian Israelis here not the ones in the bantustans which have it far worse..in short if this was done in in the US (like in the south) it would be called a KuKluxKlan state or neonazi state..

native americans or blacks do not fire katushas because there is no oppression there, there is no comparison to Palestinians.. and the blacks in america rioted and burned down half of LA once just because a black motorist was beaten! the Palestinians on the other hand are routinly tortured, being beaten is a minor incident over there..

and i'm not saying muslims should be given any part of the philipines , i'm just saying they are not "taking over" the place by force, like a marching army .. the soverignty there is the Philipines and it's just a guerilla group hidden in the jungle like in burma or south america.

As I stated in another thread:
When it comes to the 1948 partition in Palestine Muslims rejected it totally and any possibility of living in peace alongside a tiny Jewish state. Instead they aided in the invasion of the country by the regular armies of six Arab states sending their homeland into war and ending as defeated refugees. Had they accepted it, Palestinian Arabs would today be enjoying the rights of their own independent homeland without the bloodshed of the last sixty years a minority of them would be citizens of a moretolerant Israel, free from threat of warfare and terrorism.

Even today, the refugee camps can't be given statehood, because they won't agree to be at peace with Israel.
No Islamic state wants to take on or help the refugees because they create a power postion, and the more reugees the more powerful the propaganda message.

I'm still waiting for my sources I asked for above.
It may not be an army, but it's very efficent warefare...MILF numbers over 13k people. Look at all the stories I posted above from this year alone at all the trouble they are causing.

[thegodfather]

As I stated in another thread:
When it comes to the 1948 partition in Palestine Muslims rejected it totally and any possibility of living in peace alongside a tiny Jewish state. Instead they aided in the invasion of the country by the regular armies of six Arab states sending their homeland into war and ending as defeated refugees. Had they accepted it, Palestinian Arabs would today be enjoying the rights of their own independent homeland without the bloodshed of the last sixty years a minority of them would be citizens of a moretolerant Israel, free from threat of warfare and terrorism.

Even today, the refugee camps can't be given statehood, because they won't agree to be at peace with Israel.
No Islamic state wants to take on or help the refugees because they create a power postion, and the more reugees the more powerful the propaganda message.

I'm still waiting for my sources I asked for above.
It may not be an army, but it's very efficent warefare...MILF numbers over 13k people. Look at all the stories I posted above from this year alone at all the trouble they are causing.

I think this is an obfuscation of the issue. The Palestinian people should not have had to choose whether they wanted an independent state or not. Britain had no right to invade the area and impose this "choice" onto the people who inhabited the area. Just because at one point in history a thousand years ago you once occupied a territory, does not give you a right to displace the current inhabitants and give them a "choice" of an independent state. Jews for one reason or another felt "entitled" to this land and used a perverted sense of 'history' as a justification for the invasion and displacement of millions of people. The Balfour Declaration in our present day would be viewed as completely illegal under international law.

[Kratos]

I think this is an obfuscation of the issue. The Palestinian people should not have had to choose whether they wanted an independent state or not. Britain had no right to invade the area and impose this "choice" onto the people who inhabited the area. Just because at one point in history a thousand years ago you once occupied a territory, does not give you a right to displace the current inhabitants and give them a "choice" of an independent state. Jews for one reason or another felt "entitled" to this land and used a perverted sense of 'history' as a justification for the invasion and displacement of millions of people. The Balfour Declaration in our present day would be viewed as completely illegal under international law.

What are you talking about?
First of all Britian didn't invade the area...they were attacked in WWI by the Ottoman Empire, and took control as part of a peace treaty to end the war and their presence was to be temporary.
A good number of the Jews (about 250,000) moved there to escape Europe durring WWII and none of them moved there to take over or as part of an invasion and plot to displace millions of people. Prior to that they trickled in from all over at the rate of about 10k a year or less for quite a while back.
The Balfour Declaration in 1917 was almost totally invalid only a few years later. Once the British had controled Palestine post 1922 they realized it wasn't a good policy. Furthermore In 1939, Great Britain officially reneged on the Balfour Declaration by issuing the White Paper, which stated that creating a Jewish state was no longer a British policy. It was also Great Britain's change in policy toward Palestine, especially the White Paper, that prevented many many more of European Jews escape from Nazi-occupied Europe to Palestine.

For one reason or another Jews immigrated to Palestine, and as there became more jews, arab conflicts became more frequent.

Britian did little to encourage this immigration, and durring the few years they did, there weren't many immigrants.
immigration was inprired by the same thing it always is, persuit of a better life

If anything the British slowed immigration
the UN did almost nothing except draw lines on a map in 1947 and say this is the part Jews should get because this is the part where mostly jews live.
But in 1948 when they got control were invaded within days, and won their independence without any help from the UN. They had to smuggle their own weapons, they had no financial support...nothing

I think you've only taken enough time to learn about the conflict to justify your political position that we should have a more isolationist forgein policy. And maybe we should, idk, I think we get a pretty shitty deal out of helping Israel.