ACORN at it again!!!

[Nooomoto]

They just don't stop...

Officials with the controversial community organizing group ACORN were secretly videotaped offering to assist two individuals posing as a pimp and a prostitute, encouraging them to lie to the Internal Revenue Service and providing guidance on how to claim underage girls from South America as dependents.

The videotape was made public Thursday on BigGovernment.com, a political blog launched by Andrew Breitbart as a companion site to his BigHollywood.breitbart.com blog.

In the videotape, made on July 24, James O'Keefe, a 25-year-old independent filmmaker, posed as a pimp with a 20-year-old woman named "Kenya" who posed as a prostitute while visiting ACORN's office in Baltimore. The couple told ACORN staffers they wanted to secure housing where the woman could continue to maintain a prostitution business.

It doesn't stop there, the ACORN rep goes on to explain how to claim underage prostitutes brought into the country as dependants!!!! Wow...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,548827,00.html

[Tock]

They just don't stop...
It doesn't stop there, the ACORN rep goes on to explain how to claim underage prostitutes brought into the country as dependants!!!! Wow...
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,548827,00.html

Keep in mind that this comes from Fox News, and is therefore probably either not true at all, or is only part of the complete story.

Time will tell if this story is indeed true.

[Nooomoto]

Well I mean...theres a video with audio, both of which are clear as day.

[TITANIUM]

Keep in mind that this comes from Fox News, and is therefore probably either not true at all, or is only part of the complete story.

Time will tell if this story is indeed true.

Acorn, dirty?

No way?

Really????

T

Say it isn't sooooooo!!!LOL

ILMAO!!!

[mho]

Keep in mind that this comes from Fox News, and is therefore probably either not true at all, or is only part of the complete story.

Time will tell if this story is indeed true.

Honestly, how often does Fox News publish stories that are not true?

[kickinit]

Keep in mind that this comes from Fox News, and is therefore probably either not true at all, or is only part of the complete story.

Time will tell if this story is indeed true.

fart.

That's what you say about everything you don't agree with.

[Tock]

Maybe you haven't figured this out by now, but video and sound recordings are fairly easy to edit. Anyone who beleives everything that appears on their TV screen is a fool.
And the video that FoxNews has shows a lot of blank office wall and not very much of people talking. It wouldn't be difficult at all to re-dub the video to make it seem that the ACORN people were behind the kidnapping of the Lindbergh baby.

We've seen what FoxNews has to say about this. All we really know from them is that they've broadcast a news story alleging ACORN staffers are crooks.

Here's what the folks at ACORN have to say:

http://acorn.org/index.php?id=12066&...F%BD&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=22581&tx_ttnews[backPid]=12065&cHash=b735bbfbb1

Statement from Bertha Lewis, Chief Organizer, ACORN Regarding Recent News Reports

The relentless attacks on ACORN's members, its staff and the policies and positions we promote are unprecedented. An international entertainment conglomerate, disguising itself as a "news" agency (Fox), has expended millions, if not tens of millions of dollars, in their attempt to destroy the largest community organization of Black, Latino, poor and working families in the country. It is not coincidence that the most recent attacks have been launched just when health care reform is gaining traction. It is clear they've had these tapes for months.

We are their Willy Horton for 2009. We are the boogeyman for the right-wing and its echo chambers. If ACORN did not exist, the right-wing would have needed to create us in order to achieve their agenda, their missions, their ideal, retrograde America. This recent scam, which was attempted in San Diego, Los Angeles, Miami, New York, Philadelphia to name a few places, had failed for months before the results we've all recently seen. I am appalled and angry; I cannot and I will not defend the actions of the workers depicted in the video, who have since been terminated. But it is clear that the videos are doctored, edited, and in no way the result of the fabricated story being portrayed by conservative activist "filmmaker" O'Keefe and his partner in crime. And, in fact, a crime it was - our lawyers believe a felony - and we will be taking legal action against Fox and their co-conspirators.

We will not be intimidated by this international conglomerate, which has made as its mission the destruction of our organization. ACORN members are committed to the empowerment of their communities - Black, Latino, poor, and working families – at the deepest level. We are an organization committed to halting the foreclosure crisis and keeping people in their homes. We are an organization committed to ensuring quality, affordable health care for every American. We are an organization that will not be stopped in our commitment to our members and our communities which has included:

• Helping hundreds of thousands of African-American and Latino voters register to vote and get to the polls in recent years;
• Preparing, since 2004, approximately 150,000 free tax returns totaling $190 million in refunds and increased earned income tax credit participation;
• Providing effective foreclosure prevention advocacy saving thousands of American families from losing their homes to foreclosure.

[Ailes/Fox Letter 1 PDF]
[Ailes/Fox Letter 2 PDF]

12-09-09 15:22

So what we've got so far is a "He-said, She-said" dispute. ACORN claims FoxNews had been going around the country trying to find an ACORN employee to fall for their scam, and FoxNews admits that it was a scam. ACORN says they fired the people who fell for the scam, claims the people who were behind the scam committed a crime and have filed charges against the people responsible. ACORN says FoxNews have been trying for quite a while to dig up dirt on ACORN, and having failed, set up something similar to entrapment.

I don't know how this will all turn out. Time will tell.
But IMHO, FoxNews should content itself with reporting news, instead of busying itself with making news. Given its previous history of falsifying news stories, I doubt FoxNews will reform itself and become a force for good . . .

[TITANIUM]

Maybe you haven't figured this out by now, but video and sound recordings are fairly easy to edit. Anyone who beleives everything that appears on their TV screen is a fool.
And the video that FoxNews has shows a lot of blank office wall and not very much of people talking. It wouldn't be difficult at all to re-dub the video to make it seem that the ACORN people were behind the kidnapping of the Lindbergh baby.

We've seen what FoxNews has to say about this. All we really know from them is that they've broadcast a news story alleging ACORN staffers are crooks.

Here's what the folks at ACORN have to say:

http://acorn.org/index.php?id=12066&...F%BD&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=22581&tx_ttnews[backPid]=12065&cHash=b735bbfbb1

Statement from Bertha Lewis, Chief Organizer, ACORN Regarding Recent News Reports

The relentless attacks on ACORN's members, its staff and the policies and positions we promote are unprecedented. An international entertainment conglomerate, disguising itself as a "news" agency (Fox), has expended millions, if not tens of millions of dollars, in their attempt to destroy the largest community organization of Black, Latino, poor and working families in the country. It is not coincidence that the most recent attacks have been launched just when health care reform is gaining traction. It is clear they've had these tapes for months.

We are their Willy Horton for 2009. We are the boogeyman for the right-wing and its echo chambers. If ACORN did not exist, the right-wing would have needed to create us in order to achieve their agenda, their missions, their ideal, retrograde America. This recent scam, which was attempted in San Diego, Los Angeles, Miami, New York, Philadelphia to name a few places, had failed for months before the results we've all recently seen. I am appalled and angry; I cannot and I will not defend the actions of the workers depicted in the video, who have since been terminated. But it is clear that the videos are doctored, edited, and in no way the result of the fabricated story being portrayed by conservative activist "filmmaker" O'Keefe and his partner in crime. And, in fact, a crime it was - our lawyers believe a felony - and we will be taking legal action against Fox and their co-conspirators.

We will not be intimidated by this international conglomerate, which has made as its mission the destruction of our organization. ACORN members are committed to the empowerment of their communities - Black, Latino, poor, and working families – at the deepest level. We are an organization committed to halting the foreclosure crisis and keeping people in their homes. We are an organization committed to ensuring quality, affordable health care for every American. We are an organization that will not be stopped in our commitment to our members and our communities which has included:

• Helping hundreds of thousands of African-American and Latino voters register to vote and get to the polls in recent years;
• Preparing, since 2004, approximately 150,000 free tax returns totaling $190 million in refunds and increased earned income tax credit participation;
• Providing effective foreclosure prevention advocacy saving thousands of American families from losing their homes to foreclosure.

[Ailes/Fox Letter 1 PDF]
[Ailes/Fox Letter 2 PDF]

12-09-09 15:22

So what we've got so far is a "He-said, She-said" dispute. ACORN claims FoxNews had been going around the country trying to find an ACORN employee to fall for their scam, and FoxNews admits that it was a scam. ACORN says they fired the people who fell for the scam, claims the people who were behind the scam committed a crime and have filed charges against the people responsible. ACORN says FoxNews have been trying for quite a while to dig up dirt on ACORN, and having failed, set up something similar to entrapment.

I don't know how this will all turn out. Time will tell.
But IMHO, FoxNews should content itself with reporting news, instead of busying itself with making news. Given its previous history of falsifying news stories, I doubt FoxNews will reform itself and become a force for good . . .

If news stayed on point, then we wouldn't have such fun now would we?

It's all propaganda BS to me.

And no disrespect to you Tock, but ACORN is a dirty as the next.

It's like PETA taking in all this money to save animals, and terminated all but 6 of them.(yes, I'm serious about that #).Last year.

And, Fox is as screwed up as the next news organization..

The world isn't what it seems, is it?

Once you think your have it figured out, your wrong.

Best

T

[Tock]

If news stayed on point, then we wouldn't have such fun now would we?

It's all propaganda BS to me.

And no disrespect to you Tock, but ACORN is a dirty as the next.

It's like PETA taking in all this money to save animals, and terminated all but 6 of them.(yes, I'm serious about that #).Last year.

And, Fox is as screwed up as the next news organization..

The world isn't what it seems, is it?

Once you think your have it figured out, your wrong.

Best

T

FoxNews' record is such that I don't trust what they say, period.
Sure, ACORN might be an organization that isn't what it quite used to be, but I'll wait and see what some other news organiztions have to say, along with the outcome of whatever lawsuits may ensue.

I don't know much about ACORN, and am not necessarily rooting for it, but I do know that FoxNews is full of lying bas---ds willing to distort truth for political purposes. So whenever they start badmouthing any sort of minority community group for political purposes, I can't help but jump in and call BS.

[Bull_Nuts]

[QUOTE=Tock;4860810]FoxNews' record is such that I don't trust what they say, period. the only lyine b a s t a r d on fox news is geraldo rivera who constanly plays the race card and otherwise cant come up with a ligitimate opposition

Sure, ACORN might be an organization that isn't what it quite used to be, but I'll wait and see what some other news organiztions have to say, along with the outcome of whatever lawsuits may ensue.
[QUOTE]

ACORN never was what you claim it used to be(unless you mean pointless and wastefull...because now its REALLY pointless and REALLY wastefull)....all it did was push to have people get loans that they couldn't afford to pay...sure its nice for everyone to have a house...but it's just not feasable...all the money that was lost making these loans possible should have been put toward something more helpfull for these people....not some empty pipe dream and an accident waiting to happen...

NOT to mention teaching people how to get around paying taxes? Hell...no wonder they quallify for a government handout...the make money from their underage prostitutes in their brothel masquerading as students and they get refunds for claiming them as dependents...

Another example of ACORN being bs is all of the census discrepancies due to dead people and mickey mouse voting...

Shall I continue?


And who doesn't believe what Ann Coulter Says?

Tock...you are soooo amusing with your constant rhetoric and generic responses...

You constantly blame bush, play the race card and anything that is against your belief you label as republican propaganda spin

The proof is in the pudding....no person in their right mind could watch the acorn clips and claim fox is spinning it...the words are verbatim...

Its pretty cut and dry and no 1000 word rebuttal can change the fact that ACORN = SH1T

and befor you say it... Im a racist, cracker, biggot and right winged radicalist who drives a F350 with 49" tires and Dual stacks with a Gadsden Flag waving from up top with a "Dont tread on me" painted on the rear bumper.

Also A dear rifle and shotgun in the rear window and a glock 45 in the console....

-Peace!

[Tock]

Yah, but I spell better than you do, and I'll bet my truck gets more miles per gallon than yours does.

[Tock]

Here is the text of one letter ACORN lawyers sent to FoxNews:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

http://acorn.org/fileadmin/Press_Rel...les_091009.pdf

SCHWARTZ, LICHTEN

& BRIGHT, PC

Attorneys at Law

275 Seventh Avenue, 17th Floor
New York, New York 10001
tel: 212 228 6320
fax: 212 358 1353

Arthur Z. Schwartz

*

Stuart Lichten
Daniel R. Bright

*Also admitted in Pennsylvania

September 10, 2009
By Fax: (212) 556-8219


Roger Ailes
President
FOX News
1211 Avenue of the Americas
New York, New York 10036

Re: “News” Stories about ACORN Staff
Giving Tax Advice to a Prostitute

Dear Mr. Ailes:

The Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (“ACORN”) has begun a careful
investigation into the doctored videotape being played by FOX News, on line and on the air,
allegedly showing an ACORN staffer in Baltimore giving dubious tax advice to people claiming
to be a pimp and a prostitute.

It is very clear that the questions being asked are a voiceover, placed on the tape by the film
maker. The staffer involved claims that the questions she was asked were not the questions
asked by the voiceover online. In fact, she denies ever giving tax advice to people identifying
themselves as a pimp and a prostitute.

These tapes were clearly filmed several months ago. They are not “news”; they are a form of
“art.” FOX News certainly had time, if it believed that the tapes had news value, to ask ACORN
to review the tapes and to comment about their accuracy.
It is ACORN’s position, at this time, that the videotape is doctored and that the voiceovers
change the real dialog. We demand, as counsel to ACORN, that FOX cease publication of these
tapes unless it can produce proof that the conversations actually took place.

Page 2
Please be aware that we have received reports about people entering ACORN and ACORN
Housing offices, identifying themselves as pimps and prostitutes, and asking for assistance to
accomplish something unlawful. ACORN staff has been directed to turn such people away and
to file a police report if possible. Our tax preparers and those who assist people with housing
problems are given training that emphasizes the organization’s strong policy against assisting
fraud and dishonesty, and our policy of revealing fraud where ever it is discovered. The
Attorney General of Florida applauded ACORN’s efforts in that vein yesterday when
announcing the arrests of voter registration canvassers who committed fraud against ACORN
and the State of Florida.

We would like to avoid litigation with FOX, and ask that you take your responsibility as a news
gathering organization seriously. Your failure to do so does a disservice to those who view your
programming.

Very truly yours,
Arthur Z. Schwartz
AZS:dr

cc: Bertha Lewis

Scott Levinson

[Tock]

Here's another letter sent by ACORN lawyers to FoxNews:
--------------------------------------------------------------

http://acorn.org/fileadmin/Press_Rel...les_091109.pdf

September 11, 2009
By Fax: (212) 301-4223
Roger Ailes
President
FOX News
1211 Avenue of the Americas
New York, New York 10036
Re: “News” Stories about ACORN Staff
Giving Tax Advice to a “Prostitute”
Dear Mr. Ailes:
I write as a follow-up to my letter of September 10, 2009 concerning FOX News’ publication
of videotapes purporting to show ACORN staffers giving tax advice to an actor posing as a
prostitute.
After looking at the law, it is our conclusion that the filming and broadcast of the conversations
at the Baltimore ACORN offices violates §10-402(a)(1) of the Courts and Judicial Proceedings
Article of the Maryland Code, which makes it unlawful to wilfully intercept, endeavor to
intercept, or procure any other person to intercept any oral conversation unless all parties to the
communication consent. FOX News, the filmmakers, and the producer of the videos have
clearly violated this statute. It is also our belief that the tape broadcast today, involving
ACORN’s Washington, D.C. office, violates §23-542 of the D.C. Code in that the conversation
was recorded for no purpose other than to cause injury.
ACORN and the women whose conversations were taped have authorized us to commence an
action for damages and injunctive relief addressed to FOX News, the producer of the videos, and

the filmmakers. We demand, in advance of that litigation, that FOX immediately withdraw the

videos from the air and from the internet until a court rules on the lawfulness of the distribution
and broadcast of the videos.
Very truly yours,

Arthur Z. Schwartz

[Tock]

It will be interesting to see how all this shakes out . . .
Personally, my money is on ACORN. I don't know much about them, but I do know that FoxNews has a tendency to distort news, and is untrustworthy.

Time will tell.

[Tock]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...ideo-doctored/

Filmmaker Demands Apology From ACORN for Claiming Undercover Video 'Doctored'

James O'Keefe and friend Hannah Giles posed as a pimp and prostitute looking to evade the IRS and apply for an illegal housing loan for a brothel. The sting operation caught four ACORN workers in the Baltimore and Washington, D.C., offices appearing to offer their help.

The independent filmmaker whose hidden-camera videos prompted the firing of four ACORN workers is demanding an apology from ACORN for calling his work a fabricated "scam" and daring the activist group to take legal action against him.
"Bring it on," filmmaker James O'Keefe said Sunday on FOX News.

That was after ACORN lashed out at O'Keefe, who with his friend Hannah Giles posed as a pimp and prostitute looking to evade the IRS and apply for an illegal housing loan for a brothel. The sting operation caught four ACORN workers in the Baltimore and Washington, D.C., offices appearing to offer their help.

Those workers were subsequently fired, and the U.S. Census Bureau severed ties with ACORN in the wake of the controversy. But ACORN chief organizer Bertha Lewis issued a written statement Saturday saying that while she cannot defend the actions of the workers who were terminated, O'Keefe may have committed a "felony" with his operation. She also threatened legal action against FOX News, which aired the videos but did not produce them.

"It is clear that the videos are doctored, edited, and in no way the result of the fabricated story being portrayed by conservative activist 'filmmaker' O'Keefe and his partner in crime. And, in fact, a crime it was -- our lawyers believe a felony -- and we will be taking legal action against Fox and their co-conspirators," she said.

In an interview with FOX News senior correspondent Eric Shawn, O'Keefe said he wants an apology from those media outlets "covering for ACORN" as well as from ACORN itself. He said he doubts ACORN will file suit.

"They don't have any leg to stand on, so they're saying I dubbed in my voice which is completely absurd," he said. "When the truth comes out in the end, they're going to be apologizing to us."

O'Keefe said he was "just trying to hold these organizations accountable."

Lewis said in her statement that O'Keefe's "scam" was attempted in several other cities but had "failed for months."

O'Keefe declined to comment on the allegedly unsuccessful attempts, but said it's a "lie" to claim that any ACORN offices "kicked us out."

[Tock]

Well, well, well . . .
Here's some interesting trivia I've discovered . . .

A Yahoo search of ACORN turned up this interesting website:
www.rottenacorn.com
which, as you might suspect, is a rant against ACORN. Another websearch of its phone number showed that it belongs to the Washington lobby office of:

The Employment Policies Institute (EPI) is one of several front groups created by Berman & Co., a Washington, DC public affairs firm owned by Rick Berman, who lobbies for the restaurant, hotel, alcoholic beverage and tobacco industries. While most commonly referred to as EPI, it is registered as a 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organization under the name of Employment Policies Institute Foundation. In its annual Internal Revenue Service return, EPI states that it "shares office space with Berman & Company on a cost pass through basis". [1]
(see http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Employment_Policies_Institute for more).

Evidently the EPI people are paid by restaurants, hotels, and other businesses that employ lots of minimum-wage workers, and since one of the most vocal advocates of minimum-wage increases is ACORN, this Washington lobbyist organization is busying itself spreading as much dirt as possible about poor folk's advocate.
======================
EPI also operates the following websites:

http://www.livingwage.org
http://www.minimumwage.com
http://gatewayjobs.org
http://econ4u.org

=======================

The guy who runs EPI is
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Rick_Berman
Richard B. (Rick) Berman is a former labor management attorney and restaurant industry executive who currently works as a lobbyist for the food, alcoholic beverage and tobacco industries. He is the sole owner of Berman & Co., which sponsors many front groups that defend his corporate clients' interests by attacking their critics, allowing his paying clients to remain out of public view.
He is the President, Executive Director and Director of the Center for Consumer Freedom (CCF). CCF's 2005 IRS return states that Berman works 23 hours a week for the group for which he is paid $18,000. [1] In spite of its name, CCF is more concerned about industry than the consumer. He is also the Executive Director and President of the Employment Policies Institute Foundation the American Beverage Institute and the Center for Union Facts. [2]
According to a July 31, 2006, profile of Berman in USA Today, his company has 28 employees and takes in $10 million dollars a year, but "only Berman and his bookkeeper wife" know how much of the $10 million ends up in their own pockets. [2]

Work history

• 1967-1969: Labor Law attorney, Bethlehem Steel
• 1969-1972: Corporate law attorney, Dana Corp. (automotive parts)
• 1972-1974: Labor law director, U.S. Chamber of Commerce
• 1975-1984: Senior Vice President, Steak and Ale (restaurant chain)
• 1984-1986: Executive Vice President, Pillsbury Restaurant Group
• 1986-present: President, Berman &Co. (lobbying group)

Source: interview with Berman in Chainleader.com[3]
[edit]
Tobacco industry involvement

Rick Berman conceived the idea of the Guest Choice Network, a front group to help advance the goals of Philip Morris' Accommodation Program while appearing to be more of a grass-roots-led effort. [3] Berman became head of the Guest Choice Network. Berman cites an Oak Ridge National Laboratory/Roger Jenkins study that downplays the effects of secondhand smoke. Berman is also counsel for the American Beverage Institute, which also fronts for the tobacco industry.
Philip Morris funded Guest Choice Network, also known in PM's files as "Vendor #340875." Evidence of PM funding is a check for $200,000 dated May 29, 1996, to fund "Guest Choice Network and its activities."[4] and a check for $600,000 dated December 15, 1995.[5] A March 28, 1996 PM "privileged and confidential" email from Marty Barrington to Denise F. Keane, both of PM, states,

You'll remember that PM USA Corp. Affairs contributed $600,000 in'95 to get this Network, organized by Rick Berman, up and running. Berman is now looking for another $300,000, principally for an educational newsletter, and Corp. Affairs wants to contribute. As of this writing, PM USA is still the only contributor, though Berman continues to promise others any day now ...[6]

[edit]
Advocating for Food Industry

As head of the Center for Consumer Freedom (CCF), a front group for the restaurant, tobacco, and alcohol industries, Berman has specialized in the no-holds-barred intimidation tactics pioneered by Big Tobacco. Berman confirms that organizations like his, by keeping their corporate sponsors anonymous, can engage in edgier PR by providing safe shelter for individual corporations: "There's no doubt about that. Most trade associations try to insulate individual companies and brand names from cutting-edge rhetoric."[7] In 2000, the Center for Media and Democracy found that Berman and Co., Inc. was paid $256,077 by CCF for "management services," although CCF did not report paying any income to any of its employees.[8]
Berman has written a number of strategically placed op-ed articles in leading newspapers on behalf of CCF. On August 26, 2004, for example, the Atlanta Journal-Constitution printed "Soft Drink Hysteria Hard to Swallow," in which Berman trashed a study published that week in the Journal of the American Medical Association that showed a clear connection between soda consumption and diabetes: "Frankly, the contortions that the authors went through to demonize soda would make our own gold medal gymnasts proud."[9]
[edit]
Alar

An article in the December 15,1999 copy of the Cleveland Plain Dealer describes Berman's support for Uniroyal, the company that produces Alar(tm), slow-ripening chemical (deminozide) used on apples to delay ripening until the markets paid higher prices. Through his Guest Choice Network (currently the Center for Consumer Freedom) Berman published a newsletter that minimized the risks of Alar to children. The newsletter stated, "According to the Environmental Protection Agency, one would have to eat 50,000 pounds of apples a day over a lifetime to contract cancer from Alar." In response, EPA spokeswoman Denise Kearns said, "To my knowledge, EPA never issued that kind of statement." In the end Berman admitted that the source of his information was a statement made by Uniroyal. Alar has since been banned due to cancer risks.[citation needed]
[edit]
Americans with Disabilities Act

In an October 9, 1989 commentary for Nation's Restaurant News, Berman opposed the passage of the Americans with Disabilities Act ("ADA"). He wrote, "The ADA in its present form will cost our industry untold millions in added construction and labor costs" He begins the article with a reference to the ADA and AIDS. He stated, "Congress ... is seriously considering passage of a new law that would require employers to ignore AIDS infections among cooks and servers."[citation needed]
[edit]
Ethics violations

In the early 1990s, Berman was tied to former Speaker of the House Newt Gingrich through possible ethics violations involving Gingrich's PAC (GOPAC). In 1993, Berman made a $25,000 contribution to Kennesaw State College for Gingrich's class on "Renewing American Civilization" on condition that Gingrich teach ideas supported by Berman's Employment_Policies_Institute_Foundation. House Ethics Committee reports revealed that Berman's contribution was solicited by GOPAC and that Berman had already helped GOPAC in recruiting big donors. In the cover letter to the check, Berman thanked Gingrich for his "help" in enabling Berman to testify at a Congressional hearing on another matter of interest to the industry.

-----------

Another interesting website is
www.bermanexposed.org
which tells a bit more about Mr. Berman:
Who is Richard Berman?

Richard Berman is a Washington, D.C.-based hired gun who uses front groups to defend his corporate clients against the public interest. Using his lobbying and consulting firm, Berman and Company, as a revenue vehicle for his activities, Berman runs at least 15 industry-funded projects, such as the Center for Union Facts, and holds 16 "positions" within these various entities.


ActivistCash is a project of The Center for Consumer Freedom that profiles activists and
organizations who provide funding for anti-big business initiatives.
American Beverage Institute is a trade association representing the interests of the alcohol and restaurant industries, which fights against restrictions on alcohol consumption.
CSPIscam is dedicated solely to criticizing The Center for Science in the Public Interest.
Interlock Facts is a "special project" of the American Beverage Institute that seeks to block the use of interlock technology in automobiles.
SunlightScam represents indoor tanning manufacturers, distributors, and facility owners. It claims tanning is not dangerous in any way. (See http://sunbedsandvitamind.blogspot.com/2008/03/sunlight-scam-launched.html)
The Center for Union Facts is an anti-union "watchdog" front group that promotes misinformation about unions.
Econ4U.org is a project of the Employment Policies Institute that promotes economic information and personal finance advice from a pro-business perspective. (see also http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2009/09/hidden-interests-dr-evils-payday )
Rotten Acorn is a site dedicated to spreading misinformation about ACORN, the nation's largest grassroots community organization of low- and moderate-income people.
"PETA Kills Animals" is a project of the Center for Consumer Freedom created to defile the reputation of animal-rights activists and promote misinformation about animal cruelty.
PhysicianScam is a project of the Center for Consumer Freedom which promotes the interests of the food-and-beverage industry by providing misinformation about health care research.
FishScam is a Center for Consumer Freedom project funded by the food-and-beverage industry seeking to counter scientific evidence on the dangers of mercury levels in fish.
The Center for Consumer Freedom is a pro-food-and-beverage industry front group that attacks anyone who criticizes smoking, fast food or alcohol.
Employment Policies Institute opposes increasing the minimum wage and promotes the specious concept that an increased minimum wage would drive the poor and uneducated out of the job market.
Mecuryfacts is a Center for Consumer Freedom project funded by the food-and-beverage industry seeking to counter scientific evidence on the dangers of mercury levels in fish.
TeachersUnionFacts is an anti-education project of The Center for Union Facts that markets myths about teachers and tenure.
The Employee Freedom Action Committee is an anti-union front group that works to defeat the Employee Free Choice Act.
IncomeTaxFacts.org is a newly created Berman website that aims to undermine President-elect Obama’s tax policies.
HowMuchFish is a Center for Consumer Freedom project funded by the food-and-beverage industry seeking to counter scientific evidence on the dangers of mercury levels in fish.
AnimalScam is a project of the Center for Consumer Freedom funded by the food-and-beverage industry to promote misinformation about animal cruelty.
=================

So anyway, this Richard Berman guy is a well-paid Washington lobbyist, and it appears that he is masterminding this anti-ACORN effort on behalf of his clients who want them "neutralized" because of their effective work on behalf of minimum-wage workers.

And, this James O'Keefe and his busty sidekick, Lila Rose, have experience making undercover videos of Planned Parenthood centers, so this is nothing new for them. Both are ultra-conservative right-wingers:
http://onelacatholic.blogspot.com/2009/04/lila-rose-and-james-okeefe-super.html
Today's Los Angeles Times profiles (click on this post's title) Lila Rose, 20, and James O'Keefe, 24, the pro-life student activists at UCLA who have been using undercover videotapes to expose Planned Parenthood abortion centers' refusals to report statutory rapes to law enforcement.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Richard Berman or his company hired O'Keefe and Ms. Rose to use their undercover videos to dig up some dirt on an ACORN office. But we will see how all this plays out . . .

[Bull_Nuts]

It will be interesting to see how all this shakes out . . .
Personally, my money is on ACORN. I don't know much about them, but I do know that FoxNews has a tendency to distort news, and is untrustworthy.

Time will tell.

Yea...you said that...

Yah, but I spell better than you do, and I'll bet my truck gets more miles per gallon than yours does.

Yo Mama!

Here's another letter sent by ACORN lawyers to FoxNews:
--------------------------------------------------------------

http://acorn.org/fileadmin/Press_Rel...les_091109.pdf

September 11, 2009
By Fax: (212) 301-4223
Roger Ailes
President
FOX News
1211 Avenue of the Americas
New York, New York 10036
Re: “News” Stories about ACORN Staff
Giving Tax Advice to a “Prostitute”
Dear Mr. Ailes:
I write as a follow-up to my letter of September 10, 2009 concerning FOX News’ publication
of videotapes purporting to show ACORN staffers giving tax advice to an actor posing as a
prostitute.
After looking at the law, it is our conclusion that the filming and broadcast of the conversations
at the Baltimore ACORN offices violates §10-402(a)(1) of the Courts and Judicial Proceedings
Article of the Maryland Code, which makes it unlawful to wilfully intercept, endeavor to
intercept, or procure any other person to intercept any oral conversation unless all parties to the
communication consent. Im sure this statute exists to keep sensitive information private like bank acount information and ss #'s...but the dirty lawyers from the ACLU will most definately use this loophole get out of this one FOX News, the filmmakers, and the producer of the videos have
clearly violated this statute. It is also our belief that the tape broadcast today, involving
ACORN’s Washington, D.C. office, violates §23-542 of the D.C. Code in that the conversation
was recorded for no purpose other than to cause injury.Because costing tax payers more money causes no harm what so ever...
ACORN and the women whose conversations were taped have authorized us to commence an
action for damages and injunctive relief addressed to FOX News, the producer of the videos, and

the filmmakers. We demand, in advance of that litigation, that FOX immediately withdraw the

videos from the air and from the internet until a court rules on the lawfulness of the distribution
and broadcast of the videos.
Very truly yours,

Arthur Z. Schwartz

see bold

Here is the text of one letter ACORN lawyers sent to FoxNews:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

http://acorn.org/fileadmin/Press_Rel...les_091009.pdf

SCHWARTZ, LICHTEN

& BRIGHT, PC

Attorneys at Law

275 Seventh Avenue, 17th Floor
New York, New York 10001
tel: 212 228 6320
fax: 212 358 1353

Arthur Z. Schwartz

*

Stuart Lichten
Daniel R. Bright

*Also admitted in Pennsylvania

September 10, 2009
By Fax: (212) 556-8219


Roger Ailes
President
FOX News
1211 Avenue of the Americas
New York, New York 10036

Re: “News” Stories about ACORN Staff
Giving Tax Advice to a Prostitute

Dear Mr. Ailes:

The Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (“ACORN”) has begun a careful
investigation into the doctored videotape being played by FOX News, on line and on the air,
allegedly showing an ACORN staffer in Baltimore giving dubious tax advice to people claiming
to be a pimp and a prostitute.

It is very clear that the questions being asked are a voiceover, placed on the tape by the film
maker. The staffer involved claims that the questions she was asked were not the questions
asked by the voiceover online. In fact, she denies ever giving tax advice to people identifying
themselves as a pimp and a prostitute.Sure she does! What other excuse would they use....ugh...the representitive's body was invaded by an alien sent by fox because if it were actually her she would have never said such a thing...

These tapes were clearly filmed several months ago Because everyone know to get dubbing coupled with perfect gestures it takes several months to edit. They are not “news”; they are a form of
“art.” FOX News certainly had time, if it believed that the tapes had news value, to ask ACORN
to review the tapes and to comment about their accuracy.
It is ACORN’s position, at this time, that the videotape is doctored and that the voiceovers
change the real dialog. We demand, as counsel to ACORN, that FOX cease publication of these
tapes unless it can produce proof that the conversations actually took place.as if audio and video wernt enough

Page 2
Please be aware that we have received reports about people entering ACORN and ACORN
Housing offices, identifying themselves as pimps and prostitutes, and asking for assistance to
accomplish something unlawful. ACORN staff has been directed to turn such people away and
to file a police report if possible. Our tax preparers and those who assist people with housing
problems are given training that emphasizes the organization’s strong policy against assisting
fraud and dishonesty, and our policy of revealing fraud where ever it is discovered. The
Attorney General of Florida applauded ACORN’s efforts in that vein yesterday when
announcing the arrests of voter registration canvassers who committed fraud against ACORN
and the State of Florida.

We would like to avoid litigation with FOXreally...why would they want to avoid litigation if they are dubbed videos?, and ask that you take your responsibility as a news
gathering organization seriously. Your failure to do so does a disservice to those who view your
programming.

Very truly yours,
Arthur Z. Schwartz
AZS:dr

cc: Bertha Lewis

Scott Levinson

see bold

Well, well, well . . .
Here's some interesting trivia I've discovered . . . SO????

A Yahoo search of ACORN turned up this interesting website:
www.rottenacorn.com
which, as you might suspect, is a rant against ACORN. Another websearch of its phone number showed that it belongs to the Washington lobby office of:

The Employment Policies Institute (EPI) is one of several front groups created by Berman & Co., a Washington, DC public affairs firm owned by Rick Berman, who lobbies for the restaurant, hotel, alcoholic beverage and tobacco industries. While most commonly referred to as EPI, it is registered as a 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organization under the name of Employment Policies Institute Foundation. In its annual Internal Revenue Service return, EPI states that it "shares office space with Berman & Company on a cost pass through basis". [1]
(see http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php...cies_Institute for more).

Evidently the EPI people are paid by restaurants, hotels, and other businesses that employ lots of minimum-wage workers, and since one of the most vocal advocates of minimum-wage increases is ACORN, this Washington lobbyist organization is busying itself spreading as much dirt as possible about poor folk's advocate.

Always trying to hold people down...is this counting the billions of dollars spent on welfare???

o...one last thing

and i obviously dont give a fvck how many miles per gallon my truck gets or how gigantic of a "carbon footprint" it leaves.

[Tock]

[quote=Bull_Nuts;4861053]Always trying to hold people down...is this counting the billions of dollars spent on welfare???[/quote]
I'm surprised you'd support Washington lobbyists who prostitute their persuasive talents to support industries that pollute the environment with mercury.
http://www.mercuryfacts.com/

I'm surprised that you'd support Washington lobbyists who are paid by special interests to perpetuate misinformation regarding bad eating habits
http://www.obesitymyths.com/
and pass on BS about consumer groups
http://www.activistcash.com/

and encourages Americans to eat more trans-fats
http://www.trans-fatfacts.com/
Trans fats, especially those found in partially hydrogenated oils, have been maligned by food police groups and the media as "toxic," "phantom fats." But the facts don't back that up. In fact, trans fats have been a part of the American diet since the early 1900s and they are hardly toxic.

These people are professional persuaders, paid by wealthy industries that need to maintain the status quo to stay profitable. Now the same bunch of lobbyists are being paid to do an ax job on ACORN, and they'll use the same level of ethics and truth with them as they do for trans-fats and their other rich clients.

I guess you'd rather trash ACORN than admit that the Washington lobbyists might not be 100% truthful. I suppose such an attitude would easily coincide with a claim like,

and i obviously dont give a fvck how many miles per gallon my truck gets or how gigantic of a "carbon footprint" it leaves.

Children will one day inherit this planet after you're done with it. There's no way to persuade you and millions of other people to treat it better, and I have no doubt that because of that, the next generation will be left with a worse place to live than what you had.

Oh well.

[TITANIUM]

Bull Nuts, see, you had to go getting Tock all riled up and shit.LOL

And I spell worse than both of you.........


Best

T

[Bull_Nuts]

[QUOTE=Tock;4861132]

Always trying to hold people down...is this counting the billions of dollars spent on welfare???[/quote]
I'm surprised you'd support Washington lobbyists who prostitute their persuasive talents to support industries that pollute the environment with mercury.i have never claimed to support "washington lobbyists" yet you obviously support a group that has been caught with their pants down more than once
http://www.mercuryfacts.com/

I'm surprised that you'd support Washington lobbyists who are paid by special interests to perpetuate misinformation regarding bad eating habits
http://www.obesitymyths.com/
and pass on BS about consumer groups
http://www.activistcash.com/

and encourages Americans to eat more trans-fatswhich, for the most part has been removed from all fast-food chains
http://www.trans-fatfacts.com/
Trans fats, especially those found in partially hydrogenated oils, have been maligned by food police groups and the media as "toxic," "phantom fats." But the facts don't back that up. In fact, trans fats have been a part of the American diet since the early 1900s and they are hardly toxic.
but more than that....what the hell does this have to do with the topic of this thread???

These people are professional persuaders, paid by wealthy industries that need to maintain the status quo to stay profitable. Now the same bunch of lobbyists are being paid to do an ax job on ACORNpoor ACORN...because they havn't benefited from their disidence, and they'll use the same level of ethics and truth with them as they do for trans-fats and their other rich clients.

I guess you'd rather trash ACORN than admit that the Washington lobbyists might not be 100% truthful. I suppose such an attitude would easily coincide with a claim like,
Children will one day inherit this planet after you're done with it. like a collapsed economy partially due to your precious ACORN would be just dandy in a "healthy" earth(if it is actualy unhealthy) There's no way to persuade you and millions of other people to treat it better, and I have no doubt that because of that, the next generation will be left with a worse place to live than what you had. Except for yours(children)....mainly because semen squirted in your a$$hole wont get you pregnant


Oh well.

lol...yea...."oh well"


see bold

[Tock]

Well, if you want to own me . . .




Anyway, the whole point of my post is that you can't tell what's going on with this situation (or most situations, really) just from listening to one biased group of politicians. Sometimes you're just as lost when you listen to two sides of a situation, because a lot of times, neither tribe of "true beleivers" has a clue. And then you have to look for alternative explanations, or go digging around for your own answers.

You and I can hurl invectives at each other for weeks and months on end, and keep on at it until the earth opens up underneath us and swallows up whole. That won't resolve anything. Tossing theories or allegations or idiotic BS that we hear on AM talk radio won't help much either.

I get the impression that all of us here on this board, liberal and conservative and moderate and wackos alike, are all being played by Washington insiders. Non-elected folks far outnumber our elected representatives, and it is they who really run the show in Washington. Lobbyists, lawyers, special interest groups, fund raisers, bureaucrats interested in keeping their jobs, officials interested in expanding their control, newspeople who treat their profession as entertainment for fools instead of what it should be.

The unhappy consequence of all this is
you and I and other folks get focused on these "small potato" issues (this one counts for a few million $$$) and our attention is diverted away from the billions and trillions that the big multi-national corporations pocket. We end up paying more and more and more in taxes while you and I try to figure out what a couple of bottom-level clerks said.

We're really screwed, y'know it? We don't focus enough on the big stuff. We don't really know who's doing what, or who's paying who to get some media star to say about current issues. They are yanking our chains, and we are dancing the way they want us to.

You may think that I'm screwed because I'm gay,
but I assure you, we both are.

[Tock]

So . . .


==========================
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...-probes-acorn/

A growing number of Republican lawmakers are calling for congressional hearings and IRS audits of ACORN following the release of three videotapes that show the group's employees offering advice to a "pimp" and a "prostitute" on how to skirt the law.

. . .

According to USASpending.gov, a federal government Web site for tracking government grants, ACORN Housing Corporation received $1.6 million to provide housing services to low-income communities in this fiscal year, ending Sept. 30. The Department of Housing and Urban Development Grants has given $8.2 million to ACORN between 2003 and 2006, as well as $1.6 million to ACORN affiliates.
==============================================


All this controversy is over $1.6 million (not even that much, really). But it's got the attention of multiple congressmen along with near-constant coverage of FoxNews.

Put this issue into perspective; compare it with other issues going on these days. $Trillions$ for healthcare, $trillions$ of national debt, $trillions$ for national defense, $hundreds of billions$ for education, roads, welfare, transportation, wars, border security, prisons, disease epidemics, and on and on.

Whatever happened to those missing $billions$ in Iraq?
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...n1302378.shtml
Where is FoxNews' outrage? Where are the congressmen who are trying to get to the bottom of those tens of $billions$ of wasted dollars?

Seems to me this is a political effort to use media outlets to selectively enrage people over this $1.6 Billion situation and focus anger at one particular political party.
Should this situation be investigated? Sure. But when is it a good idea to focus national news resources, multiple congressmen, along with concerted efforts of Washington lobbyist organizations on a $1.6 billion issue, to the exclusion of, say, the missing Iraqi $billions? Or for resolving issues of National Health Care, the National Budget, the National Budget Defecit, the National Debt, National Energy Security, fixing the farce they call the US Prison System?

We are being played.

Special interests don't want American's attention focused on important issues, because they like the status quo, because they're making $billions$ just the way things are.

Go ahead and knock me over the head for being gay, for questioning all this BS, for calling government bureaucrats and lobbyists the sleazy swine that they are. While you're doing that, they will write new music for you to dance to while they rape your wallets and tell you what to think.

[Tock]

We are being played.

Special interests don't want American's attention focused on important issues, because they like the status quo, because they're making $billions$ just the way things are.

Go ahead and knock me over the head for being gay, for questioning all this BS, for calling government bureaucrats and lobbyists the sleazy swine that they are. While you're doing that, they will write new music for you to dance to while they rape your wallets and tell you what to think.

Y'know, I think it would be kinda fun ranting about this sort of stuff on the floor of the US Congress.

[TITANIUM]

Tock, I am truly impressed by this.You actually see what the big picture is.

You are absolutely right about this.

There is no rebuttal.

You have my respect and admiration.

I thought it was just me, but I see that others are paying attention.

Best

T

Well, if you want to own me . . .




Anyway, the whole point of my post is that you can't tell what's going on with this situation (or most situations, really) just from listening to one biased group of politicians. Sometimes you're just as lost when you listen to two sides of a situation, because a lot of times, neither tribe of "true beleivers" has a clue. And then you have to look for alternative explanations, or go digging around for your own answers.

You and I can hurl invectives at each other for weeks and months on end, and keep on at it until the earth opens up underneath us and swallows up whole. That won't resolve anything. Tossing theories or allegations or idiotic BS that we hear on AM talk radio won't help much either.

I get the impression that all of us here on this board, liberal and conservative and moderate and wackos alike, are all being played by Washington insiders. Non-elected folks far outnumber our elected representatives, and it is they who really run the show in Washington. Lobbyists, lawyers, special interest groups, fund raisers, bureaucrats interested in keeping their jobs, officials interested in expanding their control, newspeople who treat their profession as entertainment for fools instead of what it should be.

The unhappy consequence of all this is
you and I and other folks get focused on these "small potato" issues (this one counts for a few million $$$) and our attention is diverted away from the billions and trillions that the big multi-national corporations pocket. We end up paying more and more and more in taxes while you and I try to figure out what a couple of bottom-level clerks said.

We're really screwed, y'know it? We don't focus enough on the big stuff. We don't really know who's doing what, or who's paying who to get some media star to say about current issues. They are yanking our chains, and we are dancing the way they want us to.

You may think that I'm screwed because I'm gay,
but I assure you, we both are.

[mho]

If the Acorn employees are innocent why were they fired?

[Bull_Nuts]

Well, if you want to own me . . . FUNNY!




Anyway, the whole point of my post is that you can't tell what's going on with this situation (or most situations, really) just from listening to one biased group of politicians. Sometimes you're just as lost when you listen to two sides of a situation, because a lot of times, neither tribe of "true beleivers" has a clue. And then you have to look for alternative explanations, or go digging around for your own answers.

You and I can hurl invectives at each other for weeks and months on end, and keep on at it until the earth opens up underneath us and swallows up whole. That won't resolve anything. Tossing theories or allegations or idiotic BS that we hear on AM talk radio won't help much either.

I get the impression that all of us here on this board, liberal and conservative and moderate and wackos alike, are all being played by Washington insiders. Non-elected folks far outnumber our elected representatives, and it is they who really run the show in Washington. Lobbyists, lawyers, special interest groups, fund raisers, bureaucrats interested in keeping their jobs, officials interested in expanding their control, newspeople who treat their profession as entertainment for fools instead of what it should be.

The unhappy consequence of all this is
you and I and other folks get focused on these "small potato" issues (this one counts for a few million $$$) and our attention is diverted away from the billions and trillions that the big multi-national corporations pocket. We end up paying more and more and more in taxes while you and I try to figure out what a couple of bottom-level clerks said.

We're really screwed, y'know it? We don't focus enough on the big stuff. We don't really know who's doing what, or who's paying who to get some media star to say about current issues. They are yanking our chains, and we are dancing the way they want us to.

You may think that I'm screwed because I'm gay,
but I assure you, we both are.

For once, Tock, I agree with you...

[Bull_Nuts]

So . . .


==========================
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...-probes-acorn/

A growing number of Republican lawmakers are calling for congressional hearings and IRS audits of ACORN following the release of three videotapes that show the group's employees offering advice to a "pimp" and a "prostitute" on how to skirt the law.

. . .

According to USASpending.gov, a federal government Web site for tracking government grants, ACORN Housing Corporation received $1.6 million to provide housing services to low-income communities in this fiscal year, ending Sept. 30. The Department of Housing and Urban Development Grants has given $8.2 million to ACORN between 2003 and 2006, as well as $1.6 million to ACORN affiliates.
==============================================


All this controversy is over $1.6 million (not even that much, really). But it's got the attention of multiple congressmen along with near-constant coverage of FoxNews.

Put this issue into perspective; compare it with other issues going on these days. $Trillions$ for healthcare, $trillions$ of national debt, $trillions$ for national defense, $hundreds of billions$ for education, roads, welfare, transportation, wars, border security, prisons, disease epidemics, and on and on.

Whatever happened to those missing $billions$ in Iraq?
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/...n1302378.shtml
Where is FoxNews' outrage? Where are the congressmen who are trying to get to the bottom of those tens of $billions$ of wasted dollars?

Seems to me this is a political effort to use media outlets to selectively enrage people over this $1.6 Billion situation and focus anger at one particular political party.
Should this situation be investigated? Sure. But when is it a good idea to focus national news resources, multiple congressmen, along with concerted efforts of Washington lobbyist organizations on a $1.6 billion issue, to the exclusion of, say, the missing Iraqi $billions? Or for resolving issues of National Health Care, the National Budget, the National Budget Defecit, the National Debt, National Energy Security, fixing the farce they call the US Prison System?

We are being played.

Special interests don't want American's attention focused on important issues, because they like the status quo, because they're making $billions$ just the way things are.

Go ahead and knock me over the head for being gay, for questioning all this BS, for calling government bureaucrats and lobbyists the sleazy swine that they are. While you're doing that, they will write new music for you to dance to while they rape your wallets and tell you what to think.

(1) I dont care if your gay
(2) You take the possition of OMG we are both getting screwed yet you still support the cause...I on the other hand hate big government, corporate corruption and the idiots that get swear to make this place better to get elected and then turn around and do ANYTHING to stay in office...

[Bull_Nuts]

If the Acorn employees are innocent why were they fired?

exactly

[Bull_Nuts]

Let me start by saying that I have to say this since your gay tock...since i hate gays...

For once you are actin true to your nature...you are bending over and taking it...you finally quit struggling...LOL

Sorry...i had to say that...be homosexual if you want you silly non-heterosexual

[Tock]

If the Acorn employees are innocent why were they fired?

We can speculate.

Maybe ACORN management fired the employees for embarrassing them, or maybe they were fired for transgressing established procedures, or maybe they were fired as sacrifices to the gods of politics. Maybe they were absolutely innocent, and the videos were edited to make ACORN look bad, but management fired the employees for some other reason.

Who really knows, other than the people who really know?
I've seen crowds of people here in Texas get arrested, tried, and convicted for drug crimes they were innocent of (some cops used powdered sheet rock for the drugs).

My guess is that sooner or later it will all become public information. Or some version of it. Stay tuned.

[Tock]

Let me start by saying that I have to say this since your gay tock...since i hate gays...

But you're not necessarily against owning one, are you?

For once you are actin true to your nature...you are bending over and taking it...you finally quit struggling...LOL

Well, if you haven't noticed, it's just you and me in this post. If you've noticed that one of us has "finally quit struggling," then one of us must have broadened our range of intimate interests.

I don't think it was me.

[Tock]

(1) I dont care if your gay

I didn't think so.

(2) You take the possition of OMG we are both getting screwed yet you still support the cause...

I've seen FoxNews carry water for conservative politics and taint the news so many times, that it's immediately suspect, regardless of what it says. Hence my knee-jerk reaction against its opinion.

FoxNews is still the only major media company broadcasting this story. Why? It's small potatos ($1.6 million) in the grand scheme of things, but it's a central part of the effort to neutralize the ability for low income people to have a say in what the minimum wage should be. That amounts to mega $billions$ for conservatives. And if they can smear all of ACORN with a few idiot dishonest office clerks, by golly, they'll do it (as if they were the only idiot dishonest people around).

I on the other hand hate big government, corporate corruption and the idiots that get swear to make this place better to get elected and then turn around and do ANYTHING to stay in office...

Like it or not, as long as we have a complex society, big government is here to stay. As long as humans are running government, it's going to have serious flaws. Those are the two things we aren't ever going to escape.

But what is important for "we the people" is not to form opinions or take sides on any issue before we know WTF is really going on.
We've got jobs and lives and better things to do than to supervise everything that goes on in government, and we can't know what's going on most of the time. But we can know quite a bit about one or two things, and call BS on gov't representatives and bureaucrats when we can show that it's BS.
The rest of the time, when we don't really know, it's time to be reasonable and admit that we don't really know what's going on.

Radio talk shows are full of people who think they know what's going on. Lots of the hosts have their opinions on a few issues, then presume that their friends who give them reports and "talking points" that aggravate people in opposite "tribes" make them omniscient. All they really are, though, are presumptious gas bags.

Nope, all you can know is what you can know. All the rest is BS, speculation, guessing. Making grand statements based on nothing but opinion, speculation, and BS is sheer stupidity. Every political party is full of it. Most people are full of it. Pointing it out to politicians makes you a heretic, siding with the opposition makes you a turncoat. But being true to what you can know for sure, is being true to yourself, your friends, and your family.

Can't ask for more than that.

[Tock]

One thing I would like to know about this whole affair is
who paid to have James O'Keefe (the film maker) fly around the country to make these videos?

It would be interesting, also, to know who paid his bills when he did the same thing (took hidden videos under false pretenses) in abortion clinics. Also, what other kind of videos does he make, other than hidden videos of left-wing organizations?

[Bull_Nuts]

But you're not necessarily against owning one, are you?





Well, if you haven't noticed, it's just you and me in this post. If you've noticed that one of us has "finally quit struggling," then one of us must have broadened our range of intimate interests.

I don't think it was me.

Sounds like something you'd say...

[Bull_Nuts]

I didn't think so.






I've seen FoxNews carry water for conservative politics and taint the news so many times, that it's immediately suspect, regardless of what it says. Hence my knee-jerk reaction against its opinion.

FoxNews is still the only major media company broadcasting this story. Why? It's small potatos ($1.6 million) in the grand scheme of things, but it's a central part of the effort to neutralize the ability for low income people to have a say in what the minimum wage should be. That amounts to mega $billions$ for conservatives. And if they can smear all of ACORN with a few idiot dishonest office clerks, by golly, they'll do it (as if they were the only idiot dishonest people around).





Like it or not, as long as we have a complex society, big government is here to stay. As long as humans are running government, it's going to have serious flaws. Those are the two things we aren't ever going to escape.

But what is important for "we the people" is not to form opinions or take sides on any issue before we know WTF is really going on.
We've got jobs and lives and better things to do than to supervise everything that goes on in government, and we can't know what's going on most of the time. But we can know quite a bit about one or two things, and call BS on gov't representatives and bureaucrats when we can show that it's BS.
The rest of the time, when we don't really know, it's time to be reasonable and admit that we don't really know what's going on.

Radio talk shows are full of people who think they know what's going on. Lots of the hosts have their opinions on a few issues, then presume that their friends who give them reports and "talking points" that aggravate people in opposite "tribes" make them omniscient. All they really are, though, are presumptious gas bags.

Nope, all you can know is what you can know. All the rest is BS, speculation, guessing. Making grand statements based on nothing but opinion, speculation, and BS is sheer stupidity. Every political party is full of it. Most people are full of it. Pointing it out to politicians makes you a heretic, siding with the opposition makes you a turncoat. But being true to what you can know for sure, is being true to yourself, your friends, and your family.

Can't ask for more than that.

Im amazed at how many random sources you quote since its all "speculation" and "guessing"...you essentially contradict yourself and the sources with which you base all of your arguement. Kinda like saying "ha ha...look at this and this and this...but nevermind...none of proves anything." And you still stand by it...

You may as well paste articles about baseball, chocolate chip cookies and #2 pencils.

And guess what....I just heard that there is ANOTHER video from and new ACORN incident that is going to be released tomorrow....cant wait to see it...

[Tock]

Im amazed at how many random sources you quote since its all "speculation" and "guessing"...you essentially contradict yourself and the sources with which you base all of your arguement. Kinda like saying "ha ha...look at this and this and this...but nevermind...none of proves anything." And you still stand by it...

You may as well paste articles about baseball, chocolate chip cookies and #2 pencils.

Well, I appreciate you having taken the effort to read it anyway.

And guess what....I just heard that there is ANOTHER video from and new ACORN incident that is going to be released tomorrow....cant wait to see it...

Should be an interesting event.

I'd still like to know who's paying the O'Keefe guy (the one taking the videos) to run all over the US taking these videos. Whoever it is, they've invested a lot of money upfront. I'm sure it's not something he does in his spare time while he works at the local fitness center selling memberships.
========

Hmmm . . . as it turns out, O'Keefe has some sort of website at
http://veritasvisuals.com/ where he keeps a copy of his ACORN video files, along with some sort of direct port for viewing Youtube videos of gay sex and male models (there's no naked muscle dominatrix or S&M slaves), and another collection of videos where he took some more videos of people (without their knowledge?) asking passerbys to sign a petition allowing penpal status for US prisoners of war. And he seems to have taken more videos (again, without people's knowledge) asking if Ms. Sotomeyer was a racist.

Seems to me that it wouldn't take much for someone with a hidden camera to make any of y'all look bad, under the right circumstances. Got a half-baked opinion on something you don't care about but is controversial to other people? This guy might use a hidden camera to record everything you say while you make a fool of yourself. I understand there are laws against such things, something to do with privacy and wiretapping.
Maybe this guy thinks he's above those laws, and it's ok to video people without their ok. In this case, I'd like to see someone "do unto him" -- secretly video his efforts to record other people, particularly his disdain for other people and their right to be left alone. And then post the results on the internet for all to see, just like he's done to other people.

I'm all for using video to catch crooks, but (1) O'Keefe is not a cop, (2) if he thought crimes were being committed he should have reported it to authorities, (3) his videos cost several people their jobs, (4) he deceived people to get them to say some stupid things (which they may not have ever said, had it not been for his actions), (5) no crimes were committed, other than his own transgressions. In return for the loss of several people's jobs, he gets fame, notoriety, and possible job offers for himself.

If O'Keefe did to everybody what he's done to other people with his hidden cameras, we'd all be in jail sooner or later. Here in Texas, we're putting up a big stink over automated camera systems that take photos of people who run red lights. Nobody seems to like them, except the government. Nobody wants to live in a country filled with hidden videocameras.

Something tells me that this guy is gonna end up representing the worst part of Conservative values, and if the Conservative movement wants to avoid becoming tainted with his homophobic "Big Brother" hidden camera and his efforts to portray everyday people at their worst, they'd best dump him now while they can, because I don't think the American public is gonna go for that sort of thing . . .

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Wow . . . after checking, it is legal in most states for someone to secretly video record you, make you look like a fool, and then show it in public. Even you or me . . .
Depends on which state, though. Some states require consent of one person involved in the conversation, only about 12 states require all participants to the conversation to agree.

[Bull_Nuts]

Well, I appreciate you having taken the effort to read it anyway.




Should be an interesting event.

I'd still like to know who's paying the O'Keefe guy (the one taking the videos) to run all over the US taking these videos. Whoever it is, they've invested a lot of money upfront. I'm sure it's not something he does in his spare time while he works at the local fitness center selling memberships.

or maybe his motivation is the fact that millions of taxpayers are giving hard earned money to improve the US but instead its going to tax evaders and other people too lazy to work.

[Tock]

If the Acorn employees are innocent why were they fired?

I know it's late, but I got to thinking about my previous reply to this question.

Sure, some of the videos I've seen wouldn't win the clerks the "employee of the year" award. But then, if we're gonna look at this in terms of guilt and innocence,
what law, exactly, did they break?

Did they actually sign anybody up under false pretenses, or did they merely give bad advice?

[Tock]

or maybe his motivation is the fact that millions of taxpayers are giving hard earned money to improve the US but instead its going to tax evaders and other people too lazy to work.

An act of selflessness and generosity on behalf of his fellow Americans?

Nah . . . I'm thinking this is a career move, for him anyway. He got a few women fired. He should be proud of himself.

[Nooomoto]

An act of selflessness and generosity on behalf of his fellow Americans?

Nah . . . I'm thinking this is a career move, for him anyway. He got a few women fired. He should be proud of himself.

No, those women got themselves fired. He just documented it. Another video is supposed to come out today, and the Senate voted to block ACORN from recieving HUD grants, which follows the Census Bureau cutting ties last week.