Is Israel getting ready to go it alone?

**Kratos** · 03-29-2010, 11:23 AM

Israeli air force have practiced simulated strikes at Iran's nuclear facilities using airspace of at least two unidentified Arab countries, a newspaper published in east Jerusalem reported.

According to Al Manar paper, several Israeli combat jets carried out in late February bombing drills "targeting" known Iranian nuclear sites "in two Arab countries in the Persian Gulf, which are close territorially with the Islamic republic and cooperate with Israel on this issue."

Al Manar said Israel had received the permission to use the airspace from the top leadership of these countries and Washington "gave a blessing" to Tel Aviv to conduct these exercises.

Israel gets ready to strike at Iran's nuclear sites - media

Israeli air force have practiced simulated strikes at Iran's nuclear facilities using airspace of at least two unidentified Arab countries, a newspaper published in east Jerusalem reported.

According to Al Manar paper, several Israeli combat jets carried out in late February bombing drills "targeting" known Iranian nuclear sites "in two Arab countries in the Persian Gulf, which are close territorially with the Islamic republic and cooperate with Israel on this issue."

Al Manar said Israel had received the permission to use the airspace from the top leadership of these countries and Washington "gave a blessing" to Tel Aviv to conduct these exercises.

Despite broad international efforts to persuade Tehran to halt its uranium enrichment, both the United States and Israel have not ruled out military action if diplomacy fails to resolve the dispute over Iran's nuclear program.

Iran, which is currently under three sets of UN sanctions for refusing to halt uranium enrichment, insists it needs nuclear technology to generate electricity, while Western powers suspect it of pursuing an atomic weapons program.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has recently called for the international community to impose a new set of 'crippling' sanctions on Iran to make the Islamic republic scrap its controversial nuclear program.

MOSCOW, March 29 (RIA Novosti)

http://en.rian.ru/world/20100329/158340236.html

**Swifto** · 03-29-2010, 03:22 PM

I dont think Israel has the fire power, man power or support to go it alone. It would NEED support.

They aure as **** didnt give a shit about their relations with the UK though. I couldnt have really seen those assasins on fake US documents, could you?

**Mooseman33** · 03-29-2010, 03:31 PM

i think they have the fire power to go at iran alone....

and i think we are all going to find out sooner then later....

**Swifto** · 03-29-2010, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by Mooseman33

i think they have the fire power to go at iran alone....

and i think we are all going to find out sooner then later....

Ok, fire power, yes.

But would they do it without the USA's blessing?

Or would the USA use Israel as a pawn to get rid of Iran?

**Mooseman33** · 03-29-2010, 03:45 PM

i think they have made it clear they will go at it without the usa.

obama is no friend to israel, he is a muslim.

but i do think we are allowing them to handle this problem for us, good call...

**Swifto** · 03-29-2010, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by Mooseman33

i think they have made it clear they will go at it without the usa.

obama is no friend to israel, he is a muslim.

but i do think we are allowing them to handle this problem for us, good call...

The USA would make out publicly that they didnt support Israel (if they did attack Iran), but would probably secretly be funding it, even if Israel/Iran were at war.

They'll let Israel attack Iran, it saves them doing it and if it went tits up they would distance themselves from Israel.

**Kratos** · 03-29-2010, 06:36 PM

Originally Posted by Mooseman33

i think they have made it clear they will go at it without the usa.

obama is no friend to israel, he is a muslim.

but i do think we are allowing them to handle this problem for us, good call...

I think the question is, can the be effective without the US

They've bought tunnel boaring machines from the germans...I'm guessing they're smart enough to put their nuclear facilities far enough below ground that an airstirke will not set them back for too long.

**Kratos** · 03-29-2010, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by Swifto

The USA would make out publicly that they didnt support Israel (if they did attack Iran), but would probably secretly be funding it, even if Israel/Iran were at war.

They'll let Israel attack Iran, it saves them doing it and if it went tits up they would distance themselves from Israel.

The US will be blamed no matter what
they have to use Iraqi air space
meaning they'll have to tell the US even if it's moments before the strike

**quarry206** · 03-29-2010, 10:34 PM

Iran
budget-20 billion
Personal-420,000
tanks- 1800
Aircraft carrier/ amphibious assault ship-0
cruiser-
desroyer-4
frigate-5
corvette-3
nuclear submarine
submarine-10
fighter aircraft-359
nuclear weapons
military personal
Active-945,000
Reserve-125,000
Paramilitary-11,000,000
total-12,070,000

Israel
budget-12 billion
tanks-3650
Aircraft carrier/ amphibious assault ship-0
cruiser-0
desroyer-0
frigate-0
corvette-3
nuclear submarine
submarine-5
fighter aircraft-497
nuclear weapons-80
military personal
Active-176,500
Reserve-445,000
Paramilitary-7,650
total-629,150

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...tary_equipment

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._active_troops

**quarry206** · 03-29-2010, 10:48 PM

I personally don't feel they have the fire power to take on Iran alone. because of the simple fact other countries will help Iran. If the US does not come to Israel's aid, Israel will have nothing left.

**Kratos** · 03-29-2010, 11:08 PM

Originally Posted by quarry206

I personally don't feel they have the fire power to take on Iran alone. because of the simple fact other countries will help Iran. If the US does not come to Israel's aid, Israel will have nothing left.

this is an interesting read for you
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/28/we...ngerintro.html

who's going to come to Iran's aid?
they're all alone and too far away to use any of their military assets except for hezbollah.

**Chase Hard** · 03-29-2010, 11:39 PM

I don't think Israel would do it without the US. Because US supports Israel, One of osama bin ladens main requests is US Stop supporting Israel. Though Obama has been giving Israel crap about building jewish property on palestines land creating more tension recently. Also Iran hates US as much as Israel.
I'd think the US might have learnt its lesson a bit with Iraq and wont go crashing into Iran anytime soon. But if anyone does i'm pressuming it will be lead by Israel not the US.
Such a crazy part of the world.

**Kratos** · 03-30-2010, 12:19 AM

Originally Posted by Chase Hard

Such a crazy part of the world.

They'll be fighting in the middle east long after the oil is gone...and you know what they'll be fighting with?

Sticks and cammels

**quarry206** · 03-30-2010, 01:13 AM

Well I have no sources to reference, or anything..

but I have spent 30months of my life in the middle east, and worked directly with people from many of the countries around the area. and from my understanding of how many of them view Muslim law, and key point is how the common person view it, not meaning it does or does not say it.. if Jews (Israel) attacked a Muslim nation, which Iran is, (Iraq is not, it has a secular government. though popular believe in America is different). . I do believe that even if not directly, indirectly a lot of Muslim nations will aid with air stripes, money, weapons or even soldiers.

heck I even feel that they could try invading Iraq in some sort of weird get back at US (even if we didn't help Israel) because without getting into it on an open forum, If Iran desired to do that you would probably see 10,000 of US soldiers die over night that are at some of the bases in Iraq still. . . I mean Iran has sent soldiers into Iraq a few times lately just to test their limits.

**quarry206** · 03-30-2010, 01:14 AM

Originally Posted by Kratos

They'll be fighting in the middle east long after the oil is gone...and you know what they'll be fighting with?

Sticks and cammels

totally agree, in our kids life times they will not see total piece in the middle east.

**Older lifter** · 03-30-2010, 04:09 AM

Well what other option, keep waiting for the UN (United Nothings) to talk and talk and talk until they fire there first nuck (possibly at Israel).

**durak** · 03-30-2010, 08:34 AM

Originally Posted by quarry206

Iran
budget-20 billion
Personal-420,000
tanks- 1800
Aircraft carrier/ amphibious assault ship-0
cruiser-
desroyer-4
frigate-5
corvette-3
nuclear submarine
submarine-10
fighter aircraft-359
nuclear weapons
military personal
Active-945,000
Reserve-125,000
Paramilitary-11,000,000
total-12,070,000

Israel
budget-12 billion
tanks-3650
Aircraft carrier/ amphibious assault ship-0
cruiser-0
desroyer-0
frigate-0
corvette-3
nuclear submarine
submarine-5
fighter aircraft-497
nuclear weapons-80
military personal
Active-176,500
Reserve-445,000
Paramilitary-7,650
total-629,150

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...tary_equipment

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._active_troops

whats your point? nukes make personnel pointless.

**durak** · 03-30-2010, 08:39 AM

Originally Posted by Chase Hard

I don't think Israel would do it without the US. Because US supports Israel, One of osama bin ladens main requests is US Stop supporting Israel. Though Obama has been giving Israel crap about building jewish property on palestines land creating more tension recently. Also Iran hates US as much as Israel.
I'd think the US might have learnt its lesson a bit with Iraq and wont go crashing into Iran anytime soon. But if anyone does i'm pressuming it will be lead by Israel not the US.
Such a crazy part of the world.

- it is not palestinian land

- Iran does not hate israel. iran in fact has a large jewish population. the leadership uses it as a wedge to direct anger away from themselves.

-Learned a lesson from iraq? from the way i see it we now have a huge military foothold in the middle east. look at a map, iran is sandwiched between afganistan and iraq...

**durak** · 03-30-2010, 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by quarry206

Well I have no sources to reference, or anything..

but I have spent 30months of my life in the middle east, and worked directly with people from many of the countries around the area. and from my understanding of how many of them view Muslim law, and key point is how the common person view it, not meaning it does or does not say it.. if Jews (Israel) attacked a Muslim nation, which Iran is, (Iraq is not, it has a secular government. though popular believe in America is different). . I do believe that even if not directly, indirectly a lot of Muslim nations will aid with air stripes, money, weapons or even soldiers.

heck I even feel that they could try invading Iraq in some sort of weird get back at US (even if we didn't help Israel) because without getting into it on an open forum, If Iran desired to do that you would probably see 10,000 of US soldiers die over night that are at some of the bases in Iraq still. . . I mean Iran has sent soldiers into Iraq a few times lately just to test their limits.

- there is no way iran could kill 10,000 soldiers out of the blue.
- the rest of the middle east is terrified of iran getting nukes as well. The governments may not say so publically but they support taking out irans nuclear program. And yes I do have official state department sources for that.

**Kratos** · 03-30-2010, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by quarry206

. I do believe that even if not directly, indirectly a lot of Muslim nations will aid with air stripes, money, weapons or even soldiers.

.

Nobody likes iran except the total shit hole countries that can't do anything.

Saudi's hate Iran with many years of stressed relations
and don't want them to have the bomb.
Even if they're shooting at Israel...think about it, how would people in Florida feel about the possibility of someone hitting Canada with a nuke.

**FranciscoG** · 03-30-2010, 02:31 PM

Can I put in a bet?

I bet all talk and no balls, like the last 4 years.

**durak** · 03-30-2010, 02:37 PM

The problem is Obama has shunned them. In shunning them they lose confidence that we will deal with iran AND we lose the ability to keep them from going on their own.

For those that say Israel cannot do it alone: We have already supplied them with enough hardware to get the job done. If we do not give them air access, then they can go via turkey (and yes turkey would let them) or launch via subs. If they do attack, nukes will probably be used because it is the only way to get at the deep bunkers iran has created.

**FranciscoG** · 03-30-2010, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by durak

The problem is Obama has shunned them. In shunning them they lose confidence that we will deal with iran AND we lose the ability to keep them from going on their own.

For those that say Israel cannot do it alone: We have already supplied them with enough hardware to get the job done. If we do not give them air access, then they can go via turkey (and yes turkey would let them) or launch via subs. If they do attack, nukes will probably be used because it is the only way to get at the deep bunkers iran has created.

Exactly. Deep bunkers built into mountains on some sites.

Anyone that sugar coats this like it is going to be a boy scout badge of the month is just not being real.

So what happens to all the fall out from the nukes?

**durak** · 03-30-2010, 03:45 PM

it will get very ugly. the problem is not iran or the middle east. it is the reaction from china and russia. currently china and russia enable iran in order to keep our focus off them and on iran. unfortunately this means lots of "advisors" and civilians from their countries are at these nuke sites. that is the real fallout.

**FranciscoG** · 03-30-2010, 05:04 PM

Originally Posted by durak

it will get very ugly. the problem is not iran or the middle east. it is the reaction from china and russia. currently china and russia enable iran in order to keep our focus off them and on iran. unfortunately this means lots of "advisors" and civilians from their countries are at these nuke sites. that is the real fallout.

Exactly,

I skip the racist point of view that many have here. Regardless of ethnic or religious origion they are human.

Fallout from any nukes dropped will have negative effect.

**quarry206** · 03-30-2010, 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by durak

- there is no way iran could kill 10,000 soldiers out of the blue.- the rest of the middle east is terrified of iran getting nukes as well. The governments may not say so publically but they support taking out irans nuclear program. And yes I do have official state department sources for that.

I was speaking of the soldiers at bases in iraq, that if Iran wanted to hurt America just to do it (which i agree is a long long long shot that they would try something like that).. the security and protection of American soldiers in Iraq since the SOFA agreement is very horrible. . . Obama pulled to many combat soldiers out way too fast.

Though a full force fight I do not see a country in the world that could take us head to head. People in America have this idea we are untouchable, but really the US military is very under trained, and if you ask anybody in the military they will tell you the amount of shit bags they have let in and the extreme degree the military has lowered its standards to as far as discipline and readiness. . We as Americans think of 4,000-5,000 deaths as so so much. but if we fought a country that really fought back full force, or hit us when we weren't looking for it, 4,000 would be a small number.. Yes, we would do to them 10 times what they do to us. but please don't think they can't hurt us.

second point... Israel will not use nukes. I highly highly doubt a nuke will be used by a country (maybe a terrorist group) ever again.

**quarry206** · 03-30-2010, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by Kratos

Nobody likes iran except the total shit hole countries that can't do anything.

Saudi's hate Iran with many years of stressed relations
and don't want them to have the bomb.
Even if they're shooting at Israel...think about it, how would people in Florida feel about the possibility of someone hitting Canada with a nuke.

no I do agree with you Kratos, Iran is not popular, but I do believe in some ways it will turn into "your enemies, enemy, is your friend"

and no I don't believe tons of aid will come their way. I do believe there will be little things and key points that other nations, and more importantly other "terrorist" groups or "freedom fighters" will help Iran, even if its just to hurt Israel more than just help Iran.

**quarry206** · 03-30-2010, 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by PharmDoc-Cyrus

Can I put in a bet?

I bet all talk and no balls, like the last 4 years.

totally agree... I feel nothing is going to happen. most of all this talk is just that.. talk...

we are talking about what if's not what we really believe will happen. truly Ibelieve Israel and Iran will not go to war. even if there is an air strike

**FranciscoG** · 03-30-2010, 09:51 PM

Originally Posted by quarry206

totally agree... I feel nothing is going to happen. most of all this talk is just that.. talk...

we are talking about what if's not what we really believe will happen. truly Ibelieve Israel and Iran will not go to war. even if there is an air strike

Not all directed at you:

Israel has been talking the talk and not walking the walk on this issue since 2005 (first article released that I could find) maybe they have a good luck strategy. They will talk shit for 7 years before doing shit.

Maybe it will turn out as good as the 2006, 30 day, war with Hezbollah... Lol
Or better yet the 1982-2000 Lebanon War.

I recall a quote or better yet a line of thought from JFK in 1962. He stated that a nation losses face once its leaders threaten to take action but fail to follow through.

I find history to be self-repeating. Ironic, in 2002 everyone thought Iraq invasion would be simple. An Iraq that had no WMD. Looking back at the last 8 years it has not been some simple action.

Today, another dream, Iran´s forces are though to be pussies or ¨not as advanced¨ ¨ohhh yeeee of little faith how quickly you forget the listens of years past¨

What no one has mentioned on this thread is air space issue over Iraq and the Persian Gulf. Who controls that? And what happens when IDF forces are picked up on radar? US AF is not a buncha dumb asses nor are they ignorant as to the regulations to follow. Once another military enters those air spaces a chain reaction occurs with the USAF. So no action taking place on those air spaces can proceed without daddy knowing.

As for Turkey. I think not. Turkey did not even allow USAF that had a base in eastern Turkey to invade Iraq/or use that base to invade Iraw from there. Turks are not arabs BTW...

**FranciscoG** · 03-30-2010, 11:09 PM

Israel´s WMDs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvJdg...eature=related

**quarry206** · 03-30-2010, 11:56 PM

Originally Posted by pharmdoc-cyrus

israel´s wmds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvjdg...eature=related

lmao

**durak** · 03-31-2010, 12:15 AM

Originally Posted by PharmDoc-Cyrus

Israel´s WMDs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvJdg...eature=related

Nice.

**gymmonster** · 03-31-2010, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by durak

it will get very ugly. the problem is not iran or the middle east. it is the reaction from china and russia. currently china and russia enable iran in order to keep our focus off them and on iran. unfortunately this means lots of "advisors" and civilians from their countries are at these nuke sites. that is the real fallout.

l agree with this one. If its war with iran thats one thing but russia or china
stepping in could make for a very big war. War with iran l think will lead to a lot of decision making from all sides someone will help them in one way or another, and someone would probably help isreal. Thats pretty serious.

**durak** · 03-31-2010, 02:00 PM

And to answer the original post question: I do think israel will attack. They are being put in a no win position. Better to fight and possibly make it. if they don't there will be a nuke cloud over their country sooner than later.

**Mr.Rose** · 04-03-2010, 02:44 AM

I think you yanks should put your money where your mouth is. Why is everyone so distraught over Iran having nuclear weapons, when America has the largest supply of ARMED nuclear weapons on the planet.... oh wait i forgot, its ok because its your country. If America is so hell bent on getting rid of everyone's nuclear weapons, then they should get rid of theirs, not just store them away for later use. This is just another clear case of a large super power wanting more power and control by flexing their biceps.

**Mr.Rose** · 04-03-2010, 02:46 AM

Also, do you think Iran would actually launch any? If they do, then they will literally get wiped of the map by every other country in the world... even their own people.

**Kingweb50** · 04-03-2010, 06:17 AM

Originally Posted by Mr.Rose

Also, do you think Iran would actually launch any? If they do, then they will literally get wiped of the map by every other country in the world... even their own people.

Yes. I believe Ahmadinejad is crazy enough to use them. That is one of the things he is always talking about wiping out Israel. I dont blame Israel for wanting to try to destroy Irans progress. Do you think if there was a country by Aus. that says when I get nuclear weapons I am going to destroy your country you will just be like ok good luck with making your bombs.

**Mr.Rose** · 04-03-2010, 06:47 AM

Israel has every right to investigate and defend itself, but i still stand by my statement that Ahmadinejad will not attack anyone, period. My main point is that the US is not in this for the right reasons, they couldnt give two fuks whether the Israelis where safe or not.

Also if someone was to try and bomb Aus, i would be like good luck with that. You see i have no ties to no country, and i setup no home in no country, i may hold a citizenship in two countries, but that doesnt mean they are my home, i dont call any country my home, but i do call this planet my home.

**Mr.Rose** · 04-03-2010, 06:57 AM

Oh, and don't think i am for nuclear, fission, hydrogen, weapons. I am for the knowledge of the technology, you know to forward the human race and to have defenses just in case... well maybe an alien attack, hahaha, but seriously. But i condone the use of such weapons on OURSELVES.

**Kratos** · 04-03-2010, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by Mr.Rose

Israel has every right to investigate and defend itself, but i still stand by my statement that Ahmadinejad will not attack anyone, period. .

I think the bigger question for israel is if he will take propper security measures. There are people who would try to put the thing in the back of a pickup truck if they could get it into israel that way. Not that I'm saying that would work. But I'm sure they could think of some low budget shitty way to get the job done...who ever thought a 767 would be what brought down the WTC?
Point is he'd let the terrorists have one, and it'd be impossible to know weather it came from north korea, china, soviet, pak, or iran.

Clearly if they do a nuclear missle lauch, Iran will be nuked so hard it will become a glass desert.