Computers analyzing Dead Sea Scrolls...

[almostgone]

...I found it interesting that they've narrowed it down to individual scribes!

https://scitechdaily.com/artificial-...a-scrolls/amp/

[wango]

...I found it interesting that they've narrowed it down to individual scribes!

https://scitechdaily.com/artificial-...a-scrolls/amp/

In a single word - AWESOME! That is some great stuff. Nice find!

[Fluidic Kimbo]

Scientists come out with all sorts of mad shit.

For example, they've said that some of the dinosaurs had feathers. Also they've said that some of them were omnivores, some were herbivores and some were carnivores -- yet they never saw them eat, nor were they able to examine their stomachs because all they had was a skeleton. They haven't found a feather.

Science once told us that we all want to have sex with our mother, and that we go through childhood afraid that our father will cut off our testicles so that we cannot have sex with or impregnate our mothers. That was actually a scientific belief.

[Beetlegeuse]

Have you seen the PBS documentary, Dead Sea Scroll Detectives? Forging fragments of dead sea scrolls (and other "artifacts") is a cottage industry in Israel.

They caught one guy (or at least caught his forgery, dunno if they ever identified the forger) because he copied the subscripted footnote from the reference book he was copying his forged text from. Apparently his Hebrew was weak so he didn't realize what he was copying.

And it baffled the researchers, too, trying to figure out the significance of this single character. So they passed it around among their fellow researchers until finally it got to this one guy who knew the reference book it had come from like the back of his hand.

Yup, the forger had included a reference footnote from a 20th Century reference document in something allegedly written by 1st Century BC Essenes.

Wahl, it was a great gig while it lasted.

[almostgone]

Have you seen the PBS documentary, Dead Sea Scroll Detectives? Forging fragments of dead sea scrolls (and other "artifacts") is a cottage industry in Israel.

They caught one guy (or at least caught his forgery, dunno if they ever identified the forger) because he copied the subscripted footnote from the reference book he was copying his forged text from. Apparently his Hebrew was weak so he didn't realize what he was copying.

And it baffled the researchers, too, trying to figure out the significance of this single character. So they passed it around among their fellow researchers until finally it got to this one guy who knew the reference book it had come from like the back of his hand.

Yup, the forger had included a reference footnote from a 20th Century reference document in something allegedly written by 1st Century BC Essenes.

Wahl, it was a great gig while it lasted.

Yes sir. You and I both know how big an industry the forging of artifacts is in the Middle East.

[Beetlegeuse]

Not to sound like I'm knocking anybody's religion but, let's face it, the Children of Israel had no choice but to become astute businessmen because for so much of their history they were denied the right to own anything that they couldn't carry around in their heads. Under those conditions, how long do you figure it would take the inhabitants of Jerusalem to figure out that there was a profit to be made in "manufacturing" artifacts to sell to the goyim who just wouldn't stop coming there to look for them?

[almostgone]

Not to sound like I'm knocking anybody's religion but, let's face it, the Children of Israel had no choice but to become astute businessmen because for so much of their history they were denied the right to own anything that they couldn't carry around in their heads. Under those conditions, how long do you figure it would take the inhabitants of Jerusalem to figure out that there was a profit to be made in "manufacturing" artifacts to sell to the goyim who just wouldn't stop coming there to look for them?

Yes sir, it's quite common in most older societies. They know there's people that will pay out the wazoo for artifacts, whether bought through the legitimate process or whether it's under the radar knockoffs.

LOL, not too many are going to complain that the illegally purchased/smuggled artifacts are forgeries.

It's virtually a tourist industry.

[Beetlegeuse]

And its not like it's exclusively a Jewish thang. For several centuries the Catholic Church turned a blind eye to its own priests selling "indulgences" and fake religious artifacts. There's probably enough "certified authentic" pieces of Jesus' cross in reliquaries around the world to build Noah's ark from.

[almostgone]

True, forgery knows no boundaries. I think Daesh made a fortune off of legit and faked Syrian artifacts/relics.

[wango]

Have the two of you written off the Shroud of Turin?

Also do you recall a documentary where they found bones in an ossuary (I think in Jerusalem) that were inscribed the brother of Joseph. The documentary was a long time ago. As I recall, the bones were later misplaced (perhaps it was suggested it was done deliberately). I’m not sure if the movie “The Body” (a certain scene still gives me the chills) was somewhat based on that.

Maybe it was this?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/bones-...laims-1.668007

[almostgone]

Have the two of you written off the Shroud of Turin?

Also do you recall a documentary where they found bones in an ossuary (I think in Jerusalem) that were inscribed the brother of Joseph. The documentary was a long time ago. As I recall, the bones were later misplaced (perhaps it was suggested it was done deliberately). I’m not sure if the movie “The Body” (a certain scene still gives me the chills) was somewhat based on that.

Maybe it was this?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/bones-...laims-1.668007

Nope. I'm just stating there is an extreme proliferance of faked artifacts I'm in no way detracting from legitimate relics. Actually, I find legitimate artifacts very interesting.

[wango]

I was just curious as to what you guys think? I haven’t found anything definitive disproving the Shroud at this time. And I recall that documentary really seemed compelling after they presented their evidence.

All around cool stuff to ponder.

[almostgone]

I was just curious as to what you guys think? I haven’t found anything definitive disproving the Shroud at this time. And I recall that documentary really seemed compelling after they presented their evidence.

All around cool stuff to ponder.

Honestly, I haven't seen enough evidence to convince me one way or the other. Does my belief on Christ depend on the authenticity of the Shroud of Turin or any other relic/artifact? Nope....not at all. If it did, then my faith would be very f-in weak.

Do I find Christian and other religious archeology interesting? You bet!

[wango]

Honestly, I haven't seen enough evidence to convince me one way or the other. Does my belief on Christ depend on the authenticity of the Shroud of Turin or any other relic/artifact? Nope....not at all. If it did, then my faith would be very f-in weak.

Do I find Christian and other religious archeology interesting? You bet!

Completely agree with everything you just stated 110%!

[Beetlegeuse]

This is one of history's worst-kept secrets. It's even the topic of one of the chapters in Chaucer's Canterbury Tales, written in the late 14th Century. In "The Pardoner's Tale," the pardoner is a priest who sells indulgences and carries holy relics which are in reality the bones and blood of farm animals, to which he attributes all manner of miraculous properties. He even boasts of making a hundred marks (roughly the value of 50 pounds of silver) a year selling his deceptions.

And this was more than a century before Martin Luther sparked the Protestant Reformation, so it was written at a time when the Catholic Church was still all-powerful and unchallenged. Mocking the church in such a fashion could have been a fatal mistake if what he's describing weren't so commonplace that denying it would have brought them even stronger ridicule.



FF to line 21 for the first mention of the relics
(a not altogether horrid translation to modern English)