Would this cycle make sense

[newoldguy]

I am 45 and getting ready to start my first ever cycle. I am 5’5” @ 190lbs and I work out with weights 3 days a week and do martial arts 3 days a week. I always feel tired, run down, irritable, I don’t sleep well and my muscles always seem to ache.

I was considering a Deca only cycle but after reading many posts in this forum that recommended that I do a lot more reading before I considered pulling the trigger, I decided to put a hold on things and I went to my doctor to get a full blood workup. BTW, I had to ask for the testosterone panel because it’s not part of my doctor’s standard practice.

As I expected, my testosterone score was low (274). The lowest score for someone my age (according to the test results) is 350. Even though I was way under an optimal testosterone level, my doctor would not consider testosterone therapy. In his mind, my low test levels are a natural progression of life

Needless to say, I didn’t like his answer so went to an endocrinologist who, after reviewing my blood work, immediately put me on a regiment of Test (enth) and HGH. I have been on both for a little less than a week and have not felt any results yet, though I’ve read it could take several weeks to get things going in my system before I would notice any changes.

Now that I know where things stand I want to begin my cycle of Deca. I would like to take the minimum dosage for my first cycle to make sure the Test, HGH and Deca won’t cause any issues but will still give me some gains. My questions are... what is the best and lowest dose to start with? I have 10X2ml vials available for a 10week cycle. Is it important to have PCT available before I begin a low dose of Deca?

My new doc says that that the worst thing that can happen when I stop using the test is that my level will drop back down to where it is today but no lower. I don’t want to lose whatever gains I make but also am worried about experimenting with clomid and tamoxifin for PCT. Are there any natural ways to keep levels strong after a cycle that really work. I’ve read conflicting posts?

Here is the total cycle I am planning. What are your thoughts?
1 X week – Testosterone (100ml)
1 X week - HGH (.1ml)
1 X week – Deca (100ml)

[HawaiianPride.]

I can't believe your doctor denied you. He must have failed to see treatment plans using hormones to replace the balance of endogenous production produce several positive effects that you would benefit at your age tremendously...

Exactly how many mg's of Test are you being putting on per week?
What is the reason you would like to include Deca?
No PCT is not necessary while on TRT/HRT.

[newoldguy]

Thanks for the quick feedback.

I agree...I was not happy with his decision. He would think nothing of putting me on multiple pharmaceuticals for cholesterol but wouldn't even consider the research that shows that good Test levels improve overall cholesterol. No worries, I found another doctor that is helping me.

He currently has me taking 100ml of Test E a week and .1ml of HGH

I would like to take Deca to add 10lbs of muscle mass.

[HawaiianPride.]

I believe you mean "mg". ML = CC. So you are injecting 1 ML or CC per week, correct? If so this would be also mean you are utilizing at least 200mg per week depending on the strength of your Test.

Deca can be added but I wouldn't jump into it just yet.

Spend a little more time on your TRT protocol letting your body adjust to the new compounds being introduced. During week 4-5 you'll have an idea of what it's like, therefore you can go ahead and start a low dose of Deca if you wish.

That's how I would do it.

[newoldguy]

Yes, that is correct. Thanks for the clarification and suggestion. I will wait a few more weeks before beginning the Deca cycle. At such a low dose of Deca, do I need to be concerned about a PCT?

[newoldguy]

Also, would you recommend that I use the entire 2ML vial of Deca each week in a single shot for 10 weeks. thanks again

[HawaiianPride.]

PCT won't be an issue since you will never be coming off Test.

Divide the doses of Deca 2x per week at least.

[newoldguy]

Thanks very much for the recommendations and for all you are doing to help people.

[glover]

You can thank our current congressional lobbying system for the multiple pharmaceuticals doctors want to prescribe.

You should just stay on the test E for several weeks to see if that eliminates your aches and helps you add some muscle. Once your gains plateau you can and the deca to your test.

How many IU's of HGH are you taking?

Thanks for the quick feedback.

I agree...I was not happy with his decision. He would think nothing of putting me on multiple pharmaceuticals for cholesterol but wouldn't even consider the research that shows that good Test levels improve overall cholesterol. No worries, I found another doctor that is helping me.

He currently has me taking 100ml of Test E a week and .1ml of HGH

I would like to take Deca to add 10lbs of muscle mass.

[Vettester]

Are you taking HGH one 1x week? If so, I've never heard of a protocol like that. Most guys will take it daily.

On the deca, what's the mg/ml ratio? Your initial post stated something about 100ml ... Maybe that's 100mg per 1ml ratio. That can be a variable. My script is actually 300mg/ml, so it's critical to know how much medicine is really being administered.

Agree with HP, let your body adapt to the TRT regiment before adding or changing anything. BTW, your doctor is wrong about your score not going any lower. If you look at your lab work they probably should have run your LH/FSH. At 274 TT there's a good chance you have low levels of LH, but there's probably still some being produced to keep the score where it's at now. Continued use of exogenous testosterone for TRT will further suppress your LH levels, which will only lower your endogenous production even more. So, if you come off of TRT there's a good chance that your updated score could be much lower. I see it happen all the time.

[newoldguy]

Thanks Hawaiian Pride, Vetteman08 and Glover for the info. Sorry I was away for so long.

My new doc put me on Test CYP (1ML - 1X per week) and HGH (GHRP2 / 0.1CC - 5X per week) in mid August. My Test score went from 274 to 1500 in one month and stayed at 1500 in my second month. A couple weeks ago he stopped the Test and put me on HGC (1ML- 3X per week) and Anastrozole (1MG 1X per week). My headaches have lessened and my mood has been a little better and, though I can't say that I really see it, many people tell me I look like I dropped a lot of weight (I did lose 5 pounds). I do know that I lost body fat because my clothes fit me much looser now. And, for those of you over 40 guys, the morning wood is back. My sex drive has increased to the point of annoyance to my wife . I do feel a bit better but it’s costing me $500 a month to stay on this regiment.

I will say that I am not feeling the muscle gains I was hoping I would get from the Test and HGH combination. When I use the HGH prior to a workout, I can push more weight, though this affect only seems to last about an hour before I feel a crash. When I use the HGH prior to bedtime, as recommended by the doc, it keeps me awake. I've read that HGH can take 3-6 months to really see/feel a difference though others have said that within 4 weeks they noticed a difference...the jury is still out for me and HGH. Maybe it is too early to tell.

So, to the Deca...I wanna start my cycle this week to see if it will give me the gains I am looking for. I have a 10 weeks supply, I still have some Test, I am using the HGC and Anastrozole as prescribed and I have some Nolvadex. After all I've noted, what do you deduce from it and what do you recommend as my cycle.

Thanks for everything guys. I love this forum.

[bass]

remember, if your diet is not good you could actually lose muscle even if you take all the steroids in the world, so make sure you eat lots of protein! protein is what makes your muscles grow! $500! damn thats allot!

Are you taking HGH one 1x week? If so, I've never heard of a protocol like that. Most guys will take it daily.

On the deca, what's the mg/ml ratio? Your initial post stated something about 100ml ... Maybe that's 100mg per 1ml ratio. That can be a variable. My script is actually 300mg/ml, so it's critical to know how much medicine is really being administered.

Agree with HP, let your body adapt to the TRT regiment before adding or changing anything. BTW, your doctor is wrong about your score not going any lower. If you look at your lab work they probably should have run your LH/FSH. At 274 TT there's a good chance you have low levels of LH, but there's probably still some being produced to keep the score where it's at now. Continued use of exogenous testosterone for TRT will further suppress your LH levels, which will only lower your endogenous production even more. So, if you come off of TRT there's a good chance that your updated score could be much lower. I see it happen all the time.

[newoldguy]

Yea, it's the only option I know of. I am going to an anti-aging doc and he charges $1500 for 3-months. It includes monthly t-tests, the Test, HGC and HGH. I looked at several places and he was the cheapest. I wish I knew of a less expensive place but...

I am working hard to take in a minimum of 100G of protein a day. On some days, about 50% comes from powders.

I assume this is enough. Some days I do take in a lot more, other days I have to rely on supps.

Thanks

remember, if your diet is not good you could actually lose muscle even if you take all the steroids in the world, so make sure you eat lots of protein! protein is what makes your muscles grow! $500! damn thats allot!

[bass]

no not enough protein, this explains why you didn't put on muscle, you need a minimum of 1 gram per pound of your body weight, its recommended up to 2 grams per pound of body weight, and half of your protein comes from powders is even worse! sorry i quoted vetteman08 in my last post by mistake!

[bass]

BTW, if you haven't seen these vids, watch all of them when you get a chance!

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...rn-how-to-Diet

[newoldguy]

Will do...thanks again

[newoldguy]

HawaiianPride recommended breaking up the Deca into two doses per week. Watched the diet videos and worked a way to increase protein intake to 180-200G daily (have done it for the past two days and I feel like I'm always eating).

As for the Deca, I have 2ml (100mg) vials. Is it still recommended that I break up these injections to twice a week?

Still taking the HGC (1ML- 3X per week), HGH (GHRP2 / 0.1CC - 5X per week) and Anastrozole (1MG 1X per week). Also note that my last blood showed my Estradiol at 123.1mL (3Xhigher than normal range). I know the Anastrozole will help this but not sure if I am taking the correct dosage, though my doctor said I am. Next blood test in a month.

Deca dosage advice...