Still shut down.. Need help with PCT

[mbarb15]

Back in march i ran a 12 weeker of prop and tren.. I was running it at prop 100 and tren 125 EOD and teered to the end dropping tren to 75 and still running prop at 100 and ended tren a week before prop.. Everything was good, awesome results good solid size and shredded up alot.. 3 days after i started running nolva 20ml ED for 6 weeks i guess and finished the bottle... Now, im suppressed really bad... emotional, moody, sex drive is down to almost not existent (no morning wood). Started losing size and stress is thru the roof... My nuts have started gaining some size again but my sex drive is still really low if any and still feeling really supressed... Is there anything i can do now after i took nolva to get myself back to my normal horny self??

I've been reading up on HCG and may someone can elighten me more on the subject and if i can take hcg with anything after doing pct to get myself back to normal?? let me knoww ty...

Also is hcg easily accessible.. something u can buy legally on net? dont wanna go against source giving rules

[Maverick_J8]

Back in march i ran a 12 weeker of prop and tren.. I was running it at prop 100 and tren 125 EOD and teered to the end dropping tren to 75 and still running prop at 100 and ended tren a week before prop.. Everything was good, awesome results good solid size and shredded up alot.. 3 days after i started running nolva 20ml ED for 6 weeks i guess and finished the bottle... Now, im suppressed really bad... emotional, moody, sex drive is down to almost not existent (no morning wood). Started losing size and stress is thru the roof... My nuts have started gaining some size again but my sex drive is still really low if any and still feeling really supressed... Is there anything i can do now after i took nolva to get myself back to my normal horny self??

I've been reading up on HCG and may someone can elighten me more on the subject and if i can take hcg with anything after doing pct to get myself back to normal?? let me knoww ty...

Also is hcg easily accessible.. something u can buy legally on net? dont wanna go against source giving rules

After a 12 weeker of prop and tren, at prop 100 and tren 125 EOD, all you had for PCt was nolva?

What the hell happened?

Run another, AGGRESSIVE, PCT (Clomid, Nolva, Arimidex and Vit E) and see what that does.

[mbarb15]

actually i ran adex .5 EOD during n after the cycle with pct.. forgot to mention that... but still, its been maybe 4 weeks since i finished PCT with nolva and rest of adex i had and still kinda shut down.. i havent gotten any bloodwork done yet, just when i was on to make sure everything was ok and doc said everything was ok...

what would u suggest for pct.. FOR THE SECOND TIME..
what n how much?
should i consider the use of hcg with nolva?

need some suggestions and enlightenment on subject...

[Maverick_J8]

actually i ran adex .5 EOD during n after the cycle with pct.. forgot to mention that... but still, its been maybe 4 weeks since i finished PCT with nolva and rest of adex i had and still kinda shut down.. i havent gotten any bloodwork done yet, just when i was on to make sure everything was ok and doc said everything was ok...

what would u suggest for pct.. FOR THE SECOND TIME..
what n how much?
should i consider the use of hcg with nolva?

need some suggestions and enlightenment on subject...

Week Nolvadex HCG Aromasin Vitamin E
1 20mgs/day 500iu/day 20-25mgs/day 1000iu/day
2 20mgs/day 500iu/day 20-25mgs/day 1000iu/day
3 20mgs/day 500iu/day 20-25mgs/day 1000iu/day
4 20mgs/day 20-25mgs/day
5 20mgs/day 20-25mgs/day
6 20mgs/day

Aromasin can be subbed for adex.

[mbarb15]

any other suggestions???
and obv without breaking source giving rules, does anyone know where to purchase hcg.. i can get the other stuff no prob.. but just curious??

[Swifto]

any other suggestions???
and obv without breaking source giving rules, does anyone know where to purchase hcg.. i can get the other stuff no prob.. but just curious??

Dont state you cant ask for sources, then ask for one because your just "curious". C'mon.

Your asking for sources. Its against the Rules. Your no exception.

[mbarb15]

my apologies, dont for you to jump down my throat.. i didnt think hcg was as illegal as other a.a.s.... so back to my main question
does anyone have any other suggestions to my pct problem??

[Edgar]

if your boys are coming back you might be alright without the hcg. what did people do before hcg?

[mbarb15]

well thats the thing.. its been 3 almost 4 weeks since ive finished my pct and im still supressed pretty bad.. libido is almost not existent, like i can get hard but there's no interest, and it takes me alot to perform n finish without going soft...
and plus this is my 5th cycle and i havent experienced being shut down for this long and this bad before... i've used clomid and adex on my prior cycles for pct and usually around my 3 or 4th week after pct i can feel my libido starting to spike up...

so 1: could running another pct cycle maybe spike up my test production levels?
2: could doing a second pct cycle damage anything or cause an in balance
3. any other possible suggestions??

[RavensFan2k3]

well thats the thing.. its been 3 almost 4 weeks since ive finished my pct and im still supressed pretty bad.. libido is almost not existent, like i can get hard but there's no interest, and it takes me alot to perform n finish without going soft...
and plus this is my 5th cycle and i havent experienced being shut down for this long and this bad before... i've used clomid and adex on my prior cycles for pct and usually around my 3 or 4th week after pct i can feel my libido starting to spike up...

so 1: could running another pct cycle maybe spike up my test production levels?
2: could doing a second pct cycle damage anything or cause an in balance
3. any other possible suggestions??

What exactly is Adex? You said when you used clomid and adex for PCT before, it was ususally around your 3rd and 4th week AFTER PCT was was finished before you started seeing libido starting to come back? So thats 3-4 weeks after a 4 week or so PCT? So two months in total till you were back to normal? How long on the clomid and adex did your testicles increase back in size(if they lost size at all)? I'm asking this because I'm on clomid now and I'm on the 4th week of it and I dont feel any different than before I started it...no libido, no morning wood, testicle size still small....thanks for your help and sorry I couldnt be of any help to you...

[PingPang]

I would like to say that your estrogen level may not be what is causing your problems.

It may be your progesterone level. Tren increases progesterone levels and it may be a POSSIBILITY that your prog. levels are still high...hence the soft boners.

I recommend running another pct of nolva,adex, and CABERGOLINE to help with prog. levels and also help estro levels as well.

[mbarb15]

adex = arimidex.. its an AI.. theres alot of info on this site for it, u should always run an AI (arimidex, aromasin..) with a SERM (i.e: clomid, nolva.. etc).. anyways,

my last two cycles being most recent to one prior were as follows:
my last was test n eq and i started taking clomid i believe like a week to week n half after my last inj and i was starting to get my libido back around week 3/4 of the 6 weeks i ran pct.. i know kinda long, but i didnt realize how long i was on it..but around the first 2weeks i rem my nuts started getting back to their normal size...

when i did test n deca prior to that my libido was suppressed a lil longer.. i ran pct for 5 weeks and my nuts didnt get back to norm till around week 3 almost 4 from wat i rem and i my libido was still shot when i finished.. took a few more weeks after i finished to start feelings signs of desire again....

i guess something with deca and tren that suppresses u longer than other a.a.s...

[mbarb15]

correction... those were my 2 cycles prior to my most recent one which was prop n tren which i ran with adex OED for 12 weeks

[PingPang]

i guess something with deca and tren that suppresses u longer than other a.a.s...

it is progesterone. deca and tren are 19nor's they raise progesterone.
Get cabergoline... ^^^^^^^

[mbarb15]

do u know if i can purchase cabergoline online? or do u know of any where i can get this stuff.. i just read anthony roberts article on it and it makes alot of sense

[mbarb15]

suggestions??

[warchild]

i dont think you can buy caber online. i could be wrong

[mbarb15]

actually stumbled on a bunch of sites with either generics or dostinex... has anyone purchased this stuff from a liable site that they would recommend???

i have some clomid left from a prior cycle so im just gonna run that bottle out and hopefully it helps me out a lil bit ...

[Edgar]

i dont think you can buy caber online. i could be wrong

yes you can!

[mbarb15]

u def can.. any specific site anyone has had experience with??

[J-Dogg]

With Test you should have been running HCG though the cycle or at least the last part of the cycle.

Nova should be on hand incase your nips get senstive.

I'd get some HCG asap.

Also, your going to need camber or bromo for the tren. It's not somthing you want to mess around with, tren will give you tits fast if you don't run bromo. I'd run letro with it all as well.

I see nothing wrong with over kill.

[mbarb15]

i dont think i need hcg cause my nuts are starting to get some size, so somethings working down there...

im actually gonna go get my test levels tested on tues so hopefully ill get a readout of wat im dealing with and as well as that i spoke to my urologist about my "problem" and told him the story of wat ive done and wat im experiencing now and he said hes gonna work with me to get me back to normal.. so im gonna wait to see what he says and hopefully he'll prescribe me some dostinex and see where that gets me and ill mention to him if maybe i need some hcg to get them working properly...


anyone else have any thoughts??

[senseicarr]

for test and tren I use letro while on cycle and for PCT
i run 40mg novla 100clomid and hcg 10,000 ui.. works good for me

[mbarb15]

yea... i only ran adex .5 during cycle OED and ran left over after cycle for pct with nolva... i had some left over clomid that ive been using for the meantime but i def wanna get my levels tested and hopefully this doc can prescribe me some dostinex
unfortunately, like many users, i didnt do enough research tho i thought i had researched it all... now i know for next time to run letro during prop tren cycle and dbl up on my pct and add hcg...

senseicarr: so u experienced no problems with libido at all??

[ShortByNature]

Man this is crazy... im in the same boat as you.. 4th or 5th cycle.... almost identicle cycle and pct method... i have both bromo and hcg in hand and a ton of nova... and arimadex..... my nuts are at least 80% back in size but my sexual situation is exactly the same as yours.... although about 2 weeks ago it was normal for a week....

1 odd thing 4 me is i do wake up once a week or so with wood.
i get pretty good pumps in gym and only supplement im taking is Noshotgun
and i recover like a normal person.
i feel like i have alot of water weight. and my body fat has increased a little.

think im going to take the bromo and start taking nova again.... ive only quit taking the nova for 2 weeks.

is it ok to start again?
and since i have hcg should i use it? protocol?
sorry to thread jack

if u want hcg or other... ur probably going to have to get it from over seas.... i pay 25$ 1 5000Iu amp

[ShortByNature]

ohh and ive read in several places that it is bad idea to take AIs because it suppresses your LH production.

look it up

[meathead320]

At this point, being that you got some size on the boys again, I would just use the arimidex, at about 0.25mg ED for week. See how you feel about a a week after that.

The SERMs have a side of causing SHGB to go through the roof, as well as to cause your Estradiol (E2) to hit sky high, even if they prevent it from getting to the receptor.

Once the SERM is no longer in the blood, the E2 floods back into the receptors, shutting you off again.

Hence the AI, arimidex should be fine, to reduce total E2, likely to sub-normal levels.

When the E2 is sub normal, you still can lose size and strength, and feel like crap because this is an important hormone too.

That said, it will take about a week for your E2 to climb back up to normal, but it will likely not be overly high anymore.

Then take a break.

[meathead320]

ohh and ive read in several places that it is bad idea to take AIs because it suppresses your LH production.

look it up

TWHHAAT?!

I think you mean HCG supresses the LH production.

AIs tend to put it through the roof.

[mbarb15]

so i figured im gonna wait till i get my levels back from my dr to see where i stand and based on what he decides for me i guess is where ill base my decision off of... ill post the levels once i get the report back and see if u guys can give me some insite on it..

i hope i get some dostinex, i read some crazy sh!t on that stuff... lol

[Swifto]

it is progesterone. deca and tren are 19nor's they raise progesterone.
Get cabergoline... ^^^^^^^

They raise Prolactin. I've never seen any studies state either compound raise Progesterone. Infact, I know there arnt any. I've had/read this debate at other boards with some very intelligent members of our community.

[Swifto]

At this point, being that you got some size on the boys again, I would just use the arimidex, at about 0.25mg ED for week. See how you feel about a a week after that.

The SERMs have a side of causing SHGB to go through the roof, as well as to cause your Estradiol (E2) to hit sky high, even if they prevent it from getting to the receptor.

Once the SERM is no longer in the blood, the E2 floods back into the receptors, shutting you off again.

Hence the AI, arimidex should be fine, to reduce total E2, likely to sub-normal levels.

When the E2 is sub normal, you still can lose size and strength, and feel like crap because this is an important hormone too.

That said, it will take about a week for your E2 to climb back up to normal, but it will likely not be overly high anymore.

Then take a break.

Agreed, rebounds can occur when using SERM's, but they dont happen that quickly. From what I've seen users post, this only occurs when on SERM's, very highly dosed or run for extended peroids at high doses.

Have you any studies confirming your claims of a rebound as all the research on males using SERM's dont show to show such a dramatic rebound at all? Infact, I dont think I've seen a study confirming it so dramatically as you have claimed.

[mbarb15]

swifto, i got an understanding of what ur saying but what would suggest for me to do based on ur judgement and the details of my situation???

anybody else chime in??

[ShortByNature]

your right about LH... i miss read some shit.. i think im going to take the nova and arim...... but should i take the bromo?

and what are the sides of bromo?

[mbarb15]

bump anyone??

[Swifto]

swifto, i got an understanding of what ur saying but what would suggest for me to do based on ur judgement and the details of my situation???

anybody else chime in??

Get BW done. EVERYONE AS USER SHOULD GET BW DONE! THERE IS NO EXCUSE. If you have enough money to use androgens, you have enough to get BW.

Ok, first things first...Why didnt you include Clomid in your latest PCT. It seems obvious to me that Clomid has aided in your previous recovery's? Get some Clomid IMHO.

Or Tormifene. Either should work fine. recently Torm has got some very good reviews from very respectable members of our community.

I'd run:

wk 1-6 Clomid 25-50mg/ED OR Torm 60-120mg/ED

You could combine this with Nolva at 20mg/ED if you feel its needed. Nolva is good at raising endogenous T, but the backbone of your PCT should be Clomid or Torm, or both.

I'd also run a low dose of an AI. Aromasin 12.5mg/EOD or ED. Estrogen may still be a causative factor, though unlikely.

You can run Tribulas for labido, or better, Proviron 25-50mg/ED. 25mg/ED is what I use.

HCG isnt needed now, especially as your getting back testicular size. But its imperritive during your next cycle, moreso if your using 19-Nor's.

Read my sticky on HCG, PCT, SERM's, AI's etc...Ttitled, "What PCT cycle questions....".