first cycle .... first PCT???

[sfour_tay]

what up guys?

im 21 and im on my first cycle and i have some questions for when the end of my cycle comes around

first off i am on an 8 week cycle of 45mg dbol tablets a day and i am injecting susaton 375 every 6th day since i started. also after the second week of the cycle i started a 4 week cycle of 50mg anadrol tablets.

i am in my 4th week so im half way through but i still want to be ready when i come off.

im curious as to it being my first cycle do i need to worry about pct??

i think i do but i want to make shure i dont go over board in trying to prevent side effects when there they may not be an issue yet.

i found this pct,
http://www.*********.com/steroids/Po...y%20(PCT).html
and felt it was explained and some what thought out. but since i knew to steroids i a little lost on parts.


would this be over kill or a good pct for my cycle.

also where can i purchase these products ?? are they legal ??

sorry for the noobish questions but im just trying to better understand all this.

thanks
C

[blacksmith]

Always PCT mate always...especially with D-Bol...

need to get your test levels back up again....

do you have anything on side incase of gyno? and the bloat that Dbol gives?

[stocky121]

that quite a bit of orals for a first cycle mate

anyway onto your question have a read at the threads at the top of the thread and have a think. Come back with a pct and well tweak it

you can buy most of the things for pct here

http://www.ar-r.com/

[sfour_tay]

the only thing i have bought for the gyno is some novadex test booster and estrogen blocker. i have heard good reviews but honestly i wouldnt mind taking it in conjunction with a good pct ( if thats even safe)

wasnt aware that you could take stuff for the bloating but im very interested cuz the bloating is really starting in now.

and yes i am aware that it is a very large dose for my first cycle and if any pain starts i have no problem stoping. im just going to watch and listen to my body.

any ways this is the pct i was thinking of


Week Nolvadex HCG Aromasin Vitamin E
1 20mgs/day 500iu/day 20mgs/day 1,000iu/day
2 20mgs/day 500iu/day 20mgs/day 1,000iu/day
3 20mgs/day 500iu/day 20mgs/day 1,000iu/day
4 20mgs/day 20mgs/day
5 20mgs/day
6 20mgs/day



i got it from EDITED but it wont let me post the link.

the article that was posted before the cycle seems pretty well thought out.

tell me what you guys think

[sfour_tay]

ps sorry for the shatty pct chart it wont let me space them out so looks kinda confusing.

6 weeks of nolvadex
3 weeks of hcg
4 weeks of aromasin
and 3 weeks of vitamin E

[Gaspari1255]

ps sorry for the shatty pct chart it wont let me space them out so looks kinda confusing.

6 weeks of nolvadex
3 weeks of hcg
4 weeks of aromasin
and 3 weeks of vitamin E

You said you had Nolvadex Test Booster...I hope you're not planning on using that Novadex XT shit as a substitution for Nolvadex..make sure you get Nolvadex, not the over the counter Novedex XT.

[sfour_tay]

yea thats what i have but i do have some doubts about it.
my buddy is taking it and says he notices a difference in his energy levels and sex drive so ill just sell them to him.

i am aware that novadex and nolvadex are different, and im planing on getting real nolvadex. i was just curious if you could safely us it in conjunction with this pct .

thanks
C

[sfour_tay]

also im looking for some liver supps i see that milk thistle and liv 52 are a popular choice.

can any one direct me to a site that will have all my pct sups and also have the liver supps. i tryed the one that was recommended earlier but they didnt have nolvadex

[sfour_tay]

bump

what do you guys think of the pct that i posted?

also im looking for one site where i can purchase all theses supps all at once, any recomendations?

[WARMachine]

That is a horrible cycle... Seriously bro, you should have done some more research before starting that cycle. And injecting Sus once a week? wtf? Sus is best injected ED or EOD at minimum. At the very least, 2xW.

That PCT is ok.

That is WAY too much HCG though. You want to use 11,000 IU's of HCG in 21 days? Are you kidding?

Stocky already told you were you can get some PCT items.


If you havent started that ridiculous cycle, DONT! If you have, STOP and run the appropriate PCT. You son, need to research better cycles, and get your PCT item BEFORE your cycle.

Lets see these...

age
height
weight
bf%
diet summary/# meals per day
years lifting / workout split
cycle experience
pct/estrogen control knowledge
goals (size/cut/strength/speed etc...)

[sfour_tay]

ok if its that horrible, please explain y?

my friend has been lifing for 22 years and seems thos think this is a good cycle. i am suprised you think other wise. just curious as to y you think what you do.

i inject 1.5ml of sus 250 mg

if i did that every other day that would be 1125mg a week ?????? hows that work?

as for the link stocky posted they dont have nolvadex on there site or i couldnt find it at least when i searched for it.

i agree i need ot research alot more, and thats what i am doing but right now all i am reading is you telling me its bad and to stop with out any reason or backing.

just trying to get my facts straight and learn what i can.

thanks for the response
C

[sfour_tay]

as for a pct, what would you recommend as a pct.

what do you use.

and how should i base and build a pct off of the cycle im using

[Gaspari1255]

Not trying to insult you by any means but it seems to me that you haven't done any research and you're just going by what your friend says. If I'm reading this cycle right, you're taking D-bol for 8 weeks? TOO LONG. Also stacking drol with it? This is a really good way of screwing up your liver. And as someone said above, sust is generally injecting ED, and 8 weeks is not a very long time to run sust.

[WARMachine]

First off... You didnt look for Nolva cause its right here http://www.ar-r.com/shop/product_inf...products_id=43

Secondly, thats great if your friend thinks its a good cycle. It doesnt make it so...
Im sorry i didnt take into account that you wouldnt change the dose as needed.
If you inject ED, you would be taking 75mgs. 75X7=525mgs EVERY WEEK! Sorry YOU got confused.



Here take a look at these charts.



Drug: Testosterone Propionate
(Initial) Dose: 9mg
Half-life: 2 days
Dose Frequency: Every 1 days
Cycle Length: 56 days
Start Day: 1
Tapered: No

Drug: Testosterone Phenylpropionate
(Initial) Dose: 18mg
Half-life: 3 days
Dose Frequency: Every 1 days
Cycle Length: 56 days
Start Day: 1
Tapered: No

Drug: Testosterone Isocaproate
(Initial) Dose: 18mg
Half-life: 5 days
Dose Frequency: Every 1 days
Cycle Length: 56 days
Start Day: 1
Tapered: No

Drug: Testosterone Decanoate
(Initial) Dose: 30mg
Half-life: 9.5 days
Dose Frequency: Every 1 days
Cycle Length: 56 days
Start Day: 1
Tapered: No



Drug: Testosterone Propionate
(Initial) Dose: 45mg
Half-life: 2 days
Dose Frequency: Every 6 days
Cycle Length: 56 days
Start Day: 1
Tapered: No

Drug: Testosterone Phenylpropionate
(Initial) Dose: 90mg
Half-life: 3 days
Dose Frequency: Every 6 days
Cycle Length: 56 days
Start Day: 1
Tapered: No

Drug: Testosterone Isocaproate
(Initial) Dose: 90mg
Half-life: 5 days
Dose Frequency: Every 6 days
Cycle Length: 56 days
Start Day: 1
Tapered: No

Drug: Testosterone Decanoate
(Initial) Dose: 150mg
Half-life: 9.5 days
Dose Frequency: Every 6 days
Cycle Length: 56 days
Start Day: 1
Tapered: No



See the spikes on shooting every six days? Do you kinda understand why it is better to keep your BL's stable by pinning ED?

As for a PCT for that cycle? I cant help ya there, cause i would never do that cycle.

You said after the second week you started Adrol? And youre already using Dbol too? Guess you dont like your liver much bro...

Look, cut out the A-50s and run the Dbol at 30mgs ED.

IF you are going to do that cycle, do this...
(IF YOU CANNOT HANDLE ED INJECTIONS, OR EOD AT MINIMUM, SWITCH TO TEST E!!!)

Sust Weeks 1-10 @75mgs ED
Dbol Weeks 1-4 @30mgs ED

(Keep Adex on hand in case of estrogen related sides. .25mgs EOD. BTW, do NOT use Adex in PCT, EVER!)

PCT would be
Nolva - 20/20/20/20
Clomid - 50/50/25/25(Clomid is not needed if you run an AI.)
Aromasin - 25/25/25/25
(These are all in mgs, and thats ED for 4 weeks.)



Anymore questions? I will be glad to answer to the best of my ability.

You'll have to excuse me for an hour or two as im going out to dinner with my GF, but when i return ill take a look if you have posted.



-WAR


btw, while im gone, RESEARCH RESEARCH RESEARCH!

[sfour_tay]

now thats what im talking about.

thanks bro, all that really helps. im going to get on some liver sups today( i know its a little late but better than never.

the sus i have comes in 1.5 ml ampules so its kinda hard to shoot everyday. so what do you suggest?

also what should i take ofr my liver and how long does it take to get in your system and become effective?

thanks for the help guys

when you say adex for estrogen sides do you mean after the cycle is over or during. also what might these sides be ( other than bitch tits )

i run the dbol 45's in the morning and the a50s at night. i have 2 more weeks of it left so i kinda just want to use it

other than liver damage what other bad things could happen if i stay on the a50's
and will taking liver sups help??

a

[lovbyts]

Milk Thistle is about the best you can do and a must for your liver.

[WARMachine]

^^^ Hes correct.. Milk thristle.

also what might these sides be ( other than bitch tits )

Some potential sides are lethargy, suppressed gains, suppressed sex drive, acne, bloating and mood swings.

Are your amps break off or caps?

If they are break off you might want to just preload syringes with what you need per day.

What is the Sus dosed at? At the very least, do EOD bro.

[sfour_tay]

i picked up some 300mg milk thistle supps to day , it say take 1-2 a day.

is 2 enough or should i jump to 3

the amps are break off.

honestly i shot last night and i can barley move today. i know no pain no gain and im fine but to think of shooting everyday ...... maybe with a lower dose the gear will be fully absorbed and not crystalize ???

so is pre loading syringes and then letting them sit safe ??

thanks guys

ps had a weird day to day no apatite, was pretty much liquid shakes all day .... anything to do witht he cycle or was today just an off day ( ps i am also fighting a cold right now )

thanks guys
C

[lovbyts]

#1 mistake I think most people make is injecting to fast. Personally I dont get any after pain only a very slight tender area sometimes but I inject VERY slow. If you still have a problem make sure you rub it a lot and put heat on it after.

Careful with the Milk Thistle, don't do more or much more than recommended, it can also do damage if you take to much I have read.

[WARMachine]

^^^ Yep...

You should inject very slowly. Try running the syringe under warm water right before injections.

Also, before and after HOT showers help. As do heating pads.

Do not take more than recommended dose for Milk thistle.

Pre loading syringes is safe. Just leave the same needle on, and then when it comes time to inject, put a new one on. Just like normal. Its really not a big deal, each amp will only be 2 days worth anyway...

You could do EOD if its that bad bro, ED is optimal, but EOD is okay.

[sfour_tay]

i make sure to take at least 2-4 mins to inject 1.5ml

my muscles are still virgin so i want take my time.

i also sleep with a heating pad on injection sight and take 4 ibuprofen before work.

i also let the amp sit in warm water for about a min, net time im going to try longer.

i hit my quad for the first time last night and i hit a good spot didnt feel a thing, but later the next day after work i was limping like crazy.

but again no pain no gain.

as far as injecting EOD can i do this and still stay around 1000mg a week ?

just to clarify, i am injecting

Sus-A-ton 375
250mg/ml 1.5 ml ip
testosterone propinate 45mg
testosterone isocaprote 90mg
testosterone phenypropinate 90mg
testosterone decanoate 150mg
internatonial pharmaceutical


just so were all 100% clear. and im injecting i ever 5 days. i want to go to shooting it ever other day, or 3 days a week. since im taking 375mg i would need to split the vials into 3 125mg shots or .5ml shots.

would this A work and B cause less pain since theres less fluid.

also is this safe if not safer and will yeild better results ?


and last,
what is lethargy? and do i really need to worry about these estrogen related side during my cycle. i thought i had to worry about them when you come off and if you have been cycling alot ( more than just 1 cycle ) and what is the best way to prevent these side ? can you take a sup like novadex tx during you cycle just to be on the safe side then go over to you pct?

and im guessing the fact that i can barley hold the bar behind my head when i squat is from all the water retention? im starting yoga on thursday to deal with my flexibility issue. but are there other things i can do to prevent the retention of water like take a sup ? i was under the impression you wanted the water because that puts on weight and strength cuz your body has to move more.

sorry for all the questions but intill i find a good book on juice you guys are all i got.

im trying to fix this cycle ( if thats even possible ) my buddy is old school and i think alot has changed since then so im trying to learn the do's and donts.

thanks for all the help guys !
Cramer

[sfour_tay]

also should i wait till my next 6th shoot day to start EOD since i already have 375mg in me ?

[WARMachine]

Bro you are asking questions ive already covered...

[WARMachine]

i make sure to take at least 2-4 mins to inject 1.5ml

my muscles are still virgin so i want take my time.

i also sleep with a heating pad on injection sight and take 4 ibuprofen before work.

i also let the amp sit in warm water for about a min, net time im going to try longer.

i hit my quad for the first time last night and i hit a good spot didnt feel a thing, but later the next day after work i was limping like crazy.

but again no pain no gain.

as far as injecting EOD can i do this and still stay around 1000mg a week ?
(What?! No! You want to stay around 500mgs Every week.)
just to clarify, i am injecting

Sus-A-ton 375
250mg/ml 1.5 ml ip
testosterone propinate 45mg
testosterone isocaprote 90mg
testosterone phenypropinate 90mg
testosterone decanoate 150mg
internatonial pharmaceutical


just so were all 100% clear. and im injecting i ever 5 days. i want to go to shooting it ever other day, or 3 days a week. since im taking 375mg i would need to split the vials into 3 125mg shots or .5ml shots.

(Split it into 3. Take 125mg EOD.)

would this A work and B cause less pain since theres less fluid.
(A little but not much.)
also is this safe if not safer and will yeild better results ?
( Dude we alreayd went over this. Yes, it is the best way to use Sustacrap. ED is best EOD is okay. Your BL will be much more stable than shooting every 6 days.)

and last,
what is lethargy? (Being tired dude. Dictionary!) and do i really need to worry about these estrogen related side during my cycle. i thought i had to worry about them when you come off and if you have been cycling alot ( more than just 1 cycle ) and what is the best way to prevent these side ?

Dude!!!! We ALREADY WENT OVER THIS! GET AN ANIT ESTROGEN LIKE ADEX AND USE IT ON CYCLE.
can you take a sup like novadex tx during you cycle just to be on the safe side then go over to you pct?

(No, NO pro-hormone crap!)

and im guessing the fact that i can barley hold the bar behind my head when i squat is from all the water retention? im starting yoga on thursday to deal with my flexibility issue. but are there other things i can do to prevent the retention of water like take a sup ? i was under the impression you wanted the water because that puts on weight and strength cuz your body has to move more.

No! Water weight is exactly that! WATER! water is not muscle!

sorry for all the questions but intill i find a good book on juice you guys are all i got.

im trying to fix this cycle ( if thats even possible ) my buddy is old school and i think alot has changed since then so im trying to learn the do's and donts.

thanks for all the help guys !(I think you mean Thanks WAR!)
Cramer

[sfour_tay]

thanks

[sfour_tay]

should i wait till my next 6th day rolls around to start shooting every otherday or should i just start today

[WARMachine]

How many mgs have you already taken?

[sfour_tay]

ishot 375 on monday

[sfour_tay]

also can i pick up some adex locally or will i have to order off the same site as the nolvadex??

does the adex go by any different names just incase i cant find it by searching for that name.

thanks

im thinking this sunday im going to start my eod .5ml shots. and finish out my cycle like that

[sfour_tay]

y is it when i search for clommid or aromasin or adex on the stie linked about for the nolvadex it comes back with no results. are they going by a different name ??

just trying to get my stuff so i can be ready for my pct

thanks
C

[WARMachine]

Yeah some of them go by different names. Its the same chemical, and they different names for different companies.

Like Adex is short for Arimidex. And liquid Adex is called Liquidex.

Its all pretty simple really.



As far as shooting, next time youre ready for you next shot, start shooting EOD from there on.

[sfour_tay]

the last 4 days i have experinced no apatite and nausia.

i thought d bol and anadrol were suposto increase you apatite??

does this have anything to do with my cycle or is it because i caught a cold last week.

just trying to figure out whats up im struggling to get 2000 cals a day. the thought of eating just makes me sick. not exactly the best way to put on mass.

ps WAR did you get my private message i sent you?

thanks
E

[WARMachine]

You need 25 posts to PM bro so i havent gotten it...


Ive done both Drol and Dbol. And neither increased my appetite. If anything, it decreased it.

[sfour_tay]

ok so it normal

i pmed you about find the rest of the supps for the pct you recommend.

i have the nolvadex that you posted the link to but i try searching for all the names given in the thread and it says profile disabled.

just trying to get the supps for the pct. also trying to find that addex in hopes that i can rid some of this water retention.

when you were on d bob and a 50s did you find that you would get nausia ??

im just trying to keep food in my since this is a very important part of my cycle and im just starting to see gains.

went to the supp store today and got the highest cal mass builder shake they had, so hope 870 cals will help in the morning till i get my appitite back.


thanks for the help
E

[WARMachine]

Keep eating is all i can tell you...

And with Anadrol, i generally feel like shit... its worth it when i get to the gym and feel those pumps though!

[sfour_tay]

yea the pumps are pretty sweet.

any idea what areomasin and clomid and adex and refered to on www.ar-r.com

thanks

[WARMachine]

They dont have aromasin...

http://www.ar-r.com/shop/product_inf...products_id=41 - Thats Clomid


http://www.ar-r.com/shop/product_inf...roducts_id=98- Thats Adex

[sfour_tay]

awesome, dude thanks again for the help.

now im using a 3ml 21 gauge 1.5 inch needle for my sust right now

when i use these pct drugs can i jump to a small needle since i will be shooting everyday ??

and this may sound really stupid but since i will be injecting 2 different substances everyday can you use the same injection site. and can you even mix all together in one shot ( sounds like it would be a very large shot and take a wile and be painful but you never know )

[sfour_tay]

i found this areomasin
its pretty pricey im willing ot pay it but do you know or any cheaper places.

[WARMachine]

First off bro, you have to delete that link.

And we cant source talk on the board.

but, that is WAY overpriced.

PM me, you have over 25 posts now.