how to use the clomi/tamox/ldex combo

[muffin man]

i used this before with pretty good results and now a friend of mine is going to use it.

i'm looking for someone to refresh my memory on how to take it. he's coming off a 12 week test cycle.

if i remember correctly i started 2 weeks after my last shot but i'm not sure about the dosages.

any help would be huge, thanks guys.

[bakie]

PCT's dont change dramatically, I dont think, even for supplement(s) cycles.

There seems to be a never ending number of, "What PCT for Sust/Deca?", "What PCT for Dbol/Test?".

When using androgens, that cause shutdown or inhibtion, the PCT should remain, mostly, unchanged. 95% of cycles cause complete shutdown (shutdown of endogenous testosterone production). Cyles containing Testosterone or 19-Nors, will cause almost complete testicular shutdown. Therfore an aggressive PCT is needed.

Use an AI if you havent used one when "on" to lower estrogen, which is extremely suppressive (leydig cells) during PCT.

Use proven SERMs (Clomid, Nolva).

Use Tormifene, which has recently been reported to be the best SERM at restarting an inhibited HPTA.

Use HCG when "on" to maintain testicular size/function.

My advice is:

Steroid/ProHormone cycle causing HPTA shutdown (HCG may not be needed in cycles below 6 weeks IMHO)

Use HCG 125-250ius 2-3 times weekly. 10-15 days from your final Test shot, ramp your HCG to 250-500ius and ramp you AI slightly. This will cause a spike in endogenous testosterone and aromotase. We then use PCT to restart GnRH from the hypothalamus and LH/FSH from the pituitary. When beginning PCT, switch to another AI also.

Vitemin E is also an important addition when using HCG. These two studies state and confirm why:

Tohoku J Exp Med. 1987 Jul;152(3):221-9. Links
Effects of vitamin E deficiency on the hormone secretion of the pituitary-gonadal axis of the rat.

Akazawa N, Mikami S, Kimura S.
Department of Home Economics, Faculty of Education, Iwate University, Morioka.
Chronological changes of gonadotropin (FSH and LH) and testosterone concentrations in the serum were measured in vitamin E deficient rats to investigate the effects of vitamin E deficiency on the pituitary-gonadal function in rats. The receptor sites and association constant (Ka) for LH and the formation of cyclic AMP in the Leydig cells were also investigated. The results obtained in the present study are as follows: 1) The vitamin E deficient rats showed almost complete hemolysis and extremely increased TBA reacting substances (TBARS) in the serum and liver. 2) The serum LH concentration in the vitamin E deficient group was slightly higher than in the vitamin E supplemented group during the later periods of experiment. 3) The serum FSH concentration in the vitamin E deficient group did not differ significantly from that in vitamin E supplemented group, but became significantly higher than that in the latter at 186 days of experiment. 4) The serum testosterone concentration was always lower in the vitamin E deficient group than in the control. 5) The vitamin E deficient group showed slightly large number of LH/hCG receptor and significantly small Ka (low affinity), as compared with vitamin E supplemented group. The formation of cyclic AMP by Leydig cells decreased significantly in vitamin E deficient group. These results suggest that the vitamin E deficiency exerted a suppressive effect directly on the gonadal function to decrease the hormone synthesis in the Leydig cells and caused the increased secretion of pituitary LH owing to the feedback mechanism.
PMID: 2821655 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



QUOTE
It is generally thought that the peptide hormone effect the target orga n s by
binding specifically with their receptors on the plasma membrane. Since vitamin
E may act on the stabilization of the plasma membrane, the property of the LH/
hCG receptor in the Leydig cells was investigated from Scatchard plot analysis.
The vitamin E deficient group showed a slightly large number of LH/hCG
receptors as compared with vitamin E supplemented group. However, Ka was
significantly smaller in the viatamin E deficient group than in vitamin E supplemented
group. This means that the binding affinity of Leydig cells to LH is
significantly lower in vitamin E deficient group. In addition, the decrease in
total number of Leydig cells was also observed in the vitamin E deficient rats
(Akazawa 1978). These may cause lower testosterone production in the vitamin
E deficient group.



Exmaple of PCT are:

wk 1-5 Clomid 25-50mg/ED OR Torm 120/60mg/ED
wk 1-5 Nolva 20mg/ED OR Torm 60mg/ED
*Aromasin 25mg/ED OR Arimidex 0.5-1mg/ED

*AI's are not always needed, especially if one has been used to control estrogen (aromatse activity) during the cycle. There is a high risk of lowering estrogen too low and that can bring its own side effects; Lowered labido, aching joints, poor cholesterol and can negatively effect the immune system. We need some estrogen, not alot, not zero, but one cannot afford a too low an estrogen level at this time of PCT.

One should also add a cortisol reducer. The best most effective and cheapest way to reduce cortisol is Vitamin C. Take 1g apon awakening and a further 1-2g PWO.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=385915

Tribulas or another labido enhancer (Proviron).

Supplement cycle inhibiting the HPTA


wk 1-4 Clomid 25-50mg/ED OR Torm 60mg/ED
wk 1-4 Nolva 20mg/ED

Trib or another labido enhancer.


Thats it. Read the sticky's.

There are far too many "What PCT" threads here.



For those of you that state Clomid is inferior to Tamox...

"The Columbia study evaluated the use of clomiphene citrate tablets in 36 Caucasian men with hypogonadism, which was defined as a serum testosterone level 300 ng/dl. Each patient received a daily dose of 25 mg of clomiphene citrate. The average patient age was 39 years, with 12 over age 40. The average pretreatment testosterone level was 247.6 ng/dl. All patients received the drug for at least three months; the entire group was followed for 1 year.

By the first follow-up visit, which occurred between four and six weeks of the start of therapy, the average testosterone level rose to 610 ng/dl, an increase of 146 percent compared with baseline. This response was seen in all patients regardless of age.

No patients reported any of the known side effects of clomiphene citrate, such as hot flashes, visual disturbances, or headaches. In fact, most patients reported improvements in overall well-being, sex drive, physical strength, and mood on follow-up visit interviews."


Here: http://nyp.org/news/hospital/79.html

Updated: 14/5/09

Just a little help from the search tab

[NauticTL]

Read Pheedno's PCT which is a sticky here in this section. He has exact dosages for the combo you're looking for.

[bene7422]

nolva and clomid pct will suffice for that cycle and don't run nolva and adex at the same time,if you run a ai in pct use aromison.

Nolva-20/20/20/20
Clomid-100/50/50/50