HCG stand-alone cycle (HRT)

[menefist]

anndkn

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[d-red]

yes. you actually should of done HCG with your pct originally. hit up a little bit of hcg, you should be good.

[menefist]

sdss

[rogue01]

I think I will be going on Hcg and Clomid as port of my hrt...see how that does after a month. I will let you know when I find out the dosing from Dr.

[Swifto]

I'd run some HCG at 250-500ius/ED for 2-3 weeks, with Aromasin 10mg/ED. Then I'd run Toremifene 120/100/100/60 and Clomid 50/25/25/25.

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dsdd

[Swifto]

Awsome Swifto, sounds great.

I see you telling me the HCG on ED differently from a regular EOD protocol used during regular cycle. Is that because I should try to be more aggressive on my boys , trying to give them a better kick? That would be 1500-3500ius/EW Yes. You need to kick them up the ass and you're going to need a decent dose. You need to shock them. You should also look into HMG. Its very effective at increasing endogenous T and is starting to get increasingly popular now. It mimics FSH and LH, but moreso FSH, which is more important for spermcount.

I see you don't reccomend me to use either Nolva or Clomid with HCG but rather after. It makes sense because of the Aromasin use. After, yes. You could run a small dose of Tamox (Nolva, 10mg/ED) to stop further reducing the bodies own ganadotropin levels (17-OHP).Your situation is pretty bad and I'd do that if I'm honest.

You suggest to use Toremifene with Clomid but...

would it be fine anyway just to go with Clomid, or cause of my situation you think it's better to stack them together? Toremifene is the most effective SERM at raising endogenous T IMHO. Clomid is dam good and some people love Tamox. I favour Toremifene and Clomid. Run everything as outlined until your sex drive is back. If it doesnt start to return after 3months you really need to see an Endo. You ejeculatory volume should increase, size of testes, sense of well being, confidence, labido and energy levels.

I'm worried a doctor or Endo would put you straight onto TRT, which, I believe, should be the final option after everything else has been exhausted.

bolds

ps.

wk 1-3 HCG 500-1000ius/ED
wk 1-4 Tamox 10mg/ED
wk 1-4 Aromasin 10mg/ED
wk 3-8 Tore 120/100/100/60/40
wk 3-8 Clomid 50/50/25/25/25

Thats one aggressive PCT, but its what you need and if thats doesnt work I'm out of ideas.

[menefist]

dddd

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[menefist]

ankdso aododn
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[Swifto]

OK so that's what i could came out with based on financial possibility:

wk 1-3 HCG 500ius/ED *
wk 1-3 HMG 75ius/ED **
wk 1-4 Tamox 10mg/ED ***
wk 1-4 Aromasin 10mg/ED ***
wk 3-8 Clomid 50/50/25/25/25

If you cant afford Tore. Run the Tamox from week 4-8 at 20mg/ED. But Tore is very good.

* I know i have to be aggressive but i thought 1000ius a days for 21 days is a lil too much. Plus, what about the 72 hours peak deal with HCG? should i go with less frequency and higher dosage or ED on 500 is not a big deal?

No, its not IMHO. Some Endo's give their patients 5000ius doses and 2500ius doeses. You will not require as much HCG if your using HMG too.

** i researched about your suggestion of HMG and i think it would be helpfull, at least not harmful. 75ius a day is what i came out for..... 3 weeks are fine or should i go with 2?

3 weeks with HCG. There synergy between the two. HCG and HMG should be excellent.

*** Adding HMG should it make me consider increasing the Nolva or Aromasinn dosage?

No. I think you will be ok here. Run the Aromasin to week 5.

Tore is too expensive right now...

PM on the way.


plus i found this really iteresting article HCG – Human Chorionic Gonadotropin Use After Anabolic Steroid Cycles for Bodybuilding

and I'd like to point this parts:

A prolonged LH deficiency causes the testes to desensitize, requiring a higher hCG dose for ample stimulation. In men with normal LH levels and normal testicular sensitivity, the maximum increase of testosterone is seen from a dose of only 250iu, with minimal increases obtained from 500iu or even 5000iu. (2,11) (It appears the testes maximum secretion of testosterone is about 140% above their normal capacity.) (12-18) If you have allowed your testes to desensitize over the length of a typical steroid cycle, (8-16 weeks) then you would require a higher dose to elicit a response in an attempt to restore normal testicular size and function – but there is cost to this, and a high probability that you won’t regain full testicular function.

how safe is higher so.... that's why i came out with 500ius a day.. I got a little scared... or maybe kick starting the first week with 1000ius a day and then decresing for week 2 and 3....

Yes. You could kickstart the first 2 weeks with 1000ius/ED. But the added HMG will help too.

If you are starting hCG late in the cycle, one could calculate a rough estimate for their required hCG ‘kick starting’ dosage by multiplying 40iu x days of LH absence, since the testes will be desensitized, thus requiring a higher dose. (ie. 40iu x 60 days = 2400iu HCG dose) You've been "off" for a long time and this is with eugondal (males with ok HPTA's), your HPTA is not responding well at the moment. You need a large dose of HCG, but the added HMG will help too. So you dont need a massive initital dose IMHO. 1000ius for the first 5-7 days, then 500ius/ED with HMG 75ius/ED

bolds

[menefist]

mnkksllls

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[Swifto]

Ok Swifto, I'm almost ready to start with that, i found some HMG too to add to the cycle but unfortunatly not enough to be run 3 weeks ED!

Could i run it EOD? is it worth anyway?

if that so i would do so:

wk 1 - 3 HCG 500-1000ius ED ( wk 1 1000ius ED / wk 2 - 3 500ius ED )
wk 1 - 2 HMG 75ius EOD ( or wk 2 - 3 ? )
wk 1 - 4 Nolva 10 mg ED
wk 1 - 4 Aromasin 10 mg ED
wk 3 - 8 Clomid 50 mg ED

what do you think?

Thats ok.

HMG EOD is fine too. I'd like the Aromaisn run to week 5 too.

[menefist]

dmms,,sp-