Levels not back up yet?

[Slide]

It has been 10 weeks since my last test shot and i just got my blood-work back. My pre cycle test level was 457, and my current level is 335. Shouldn't this be back up by now?

I did a proper 6 week PCT:

Aromasin 25mg
Novla 20mg
HCG 500 iu
Vitamin C 2g

I am not too worried about this, but just wanted to know from others experiences what is normal for full recovery.

thanks

[tboney]

Why did you run aromasin during pct? You ran hcg during pct or during cycle? Why no clomid?

[TITANIUM]

My questions would be the same.^^^^^

Best

T

(if that was your pct plan, than that is part of the problem).

[tboney]

My questions would be the same.^^^^^

Best

T

(if that was your pct plan, than that is part of the problem).

Yea I agree.

[Vitruvian-Man]

My questions would be the same.^^^^^

Best

T

(if that was your pct plan, than that is part of the problem).

I know quite a few people who use Aromasin in their PCT. It's considered beneficial for raising both total and free testosterone levels. I personally don't like to use an A.I. during PCT; however, since he was using HCG during his PCT the implementation of an A.I. is proper protocol.

But yah, I would have used another SERM with the nolva... Tore or Clomid.

Your levels should bounce back, give them time.

BTW slide, how long were you "on" cycle for prior to this PCT? I thought you were a cruiser/blaster?? (because in that case, this PCT was far from acceptable??) Hope all's well..

[Merc.]

That pct can be used ( and can work pretty well.. If ... 1) you did not use HCG on cycle.. 2) you had atrophy on your cycle..

You have to use nolva when you use HCG ( in pct) because HCG is suppressive.. it blocks the conversion of 17-OHP ( 17-alaph hydroxyprogesterone) into test.. Nolva helps to stop the blocking action of HCG..

Heres a related study ..

Tamoxifen suppresses gonadotropin-induced 17 alpha-hydroxyprogesterone accumulation in normal men.

Smals AG, Pieters GF, Drayer JI, Boers GH, Benraad TJ, Kloppenborg PW.
Intramuscular administration of 1500 IU hCG daily for 3 days induced a transient accumulation of 17 alpha-hydroxyprogesterone (17 OHP) relative to testosterone (T) in normal men, reaching its maximum 24 h after the first injection (17 OHP to T ratio, 1.7 +/- 0.3 times baseline; P < 0.01). Simultaneous administration of hCG and the estrogen antagonist tamoxifen (20 mg twice daily) almost completely abolished the hCG-induced steroidogenic block localized between 17 OHP and T (17 OHP to T ratio at 24 h, 1.1 +/- 0.1 times baseline; P < 0.01 vs. hCG alone). These data indirectly suggest that, in man, the hCG-induced steroidogenic lesion might be mediated through its estrogen-stimulating effect.

PMID: 7419679 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE

So than nolva can possibly reduce the effects of type II AI's like adex .. a type I AI like armosin doesnt need to be present to countinue its job on the aromatise enzyme .. unlike a type II AI which could be partiallly elimanated by the nolva .. and would unfortunatley need to be present to countinue its aromatise inhibtion ..

heres a link to a thread were we also talked about HCG and pct ... It is a very intresting topic ...

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...highlight=merc



Merc.

[Merc.]

You would only want to use the HCG for like 3 wks though( not the entire 6 wks).. then you would use just the nolva and aromasin after that .

I think it is best to use HCG during cycle though ( and not in pct) ... but it could be used in pct ( for the reasons i stated in my above post )..


Merc.

[tboney]

You would only want to use the HCG for like 3 wks though( not the entire 6 wks).. then you would use just the nolva and aromasin after that .

I think it is best to use HCG during cycle though ( and not in pct) ... but it could be used in pct ( for the reasons i stated in my above post )..


Merc.

Merc you would use aromasin and nolva over nolva/clomid or nolva/torem?

[Merc.]

Merc you would use aromasin and nolva over nolva/clomid or nolva/torem?

Good question TB ..


If I was to use the HCG in my pct , than yes.. You see If one was to follow that HCG protocol they would want to use an ai to halt any of the possible suppression from the estrogen engendered by the HCG... so using two SERMS is not going to accomplish what we would be trying to do.. (which is blocking any further suppression from estrogen ).. and also because nolva can reduce the effects of adex , aromasin would be a good fit here ..

I personally like tamox/tore or even tamox/clomid for a pct ..




Merc.

[tboney]

Thats the impression I was under! Thanks for clearing that up.

[Slide]

Sorry i don't know why i didn't have it on there but i used Clomid also. My cycle was 12 weeks.

It was my first cycle and i will use HCG on cycle next time... Lesson learned. Additionally i used Aromasin, b/c i had some junk Aromasin while on cycle and my Est got up pretty high, i didn't want to risk any more gyno.

[onesweetwrld]

I have been reading threads, forums, medical journals and various reads on AS and PCT deciding if I wanted to do them. I finally made the jump and have decided to start my first cycle. Im going to run Test E alone.

I have a pretty cool doctor who basically told me how to run my gear but Im wondering if what he told me is going to work. Everything that I read in the threads and forums talks of mgs and mls and ius. Well my doc told me to start the first and second week on running my gear with a half cc and then to move it to 1cc for 2 weeks and then 2ccs a week for the final 6 weeks. 10 week cycle in all. Can someone tell me how this converts to mgs or if what he has told me is correct info.

Also being my first cycle and only doing the Test E alone I cant really find accurate and detailed info on a PCT protocol. I have read that many use a SERM and AI together and many just use a SERM or AI alone. The most common PCT stack I see without HCG is stacking Nolva/Arim together 2 weeks after my final stick and running that stack from 4-6 weeks.

PLEASE HELP !!!!!