No PCT..any suggestions??

**jojo81084** · 12-11-2009, 01:02 PM

Alright everybody, Im 25 years old and had a shoulder surgery around 2 years ago. I rehabbed it forever with decent success but not great. I had some gym buddies tell me to get on some test/deca and that it would probably help it out. As stupid as I was (6months ago), I started taking it (3cc test, 2cc deca/week). What little did I know!! Did absolutely no PCT at all!! ITs been about 5 months since my last dose of it. Since about 2 or 3 months ago, I have severe acne especially on forehead, fatigue, no sex drive, loss of weight, and hair loss.
Tryed tons vitamins including all b-vitamins, truibulus, longjax, and vitex. None of this is seeming to help!! Also went to an endocrinologist about a few days ago and he was a DICK about things and would get back with me once my blood work comes back...
Im wondering if maybe Nolva, clomid, or hcg would do the trick to fix all these bad sides. Or should I get back on the test and then level it off with pct to get my normal levels back up. Do you think im permantly screwed or will I be able to get my normal levels back. Im assuming my estrogen levels are high but thought that all these side effects im getting now might be from low testosterone ..
Listen, I understand I was an idiot and now im paying the consequences. Im just wandering if any of you have any advice on what to do or if yall have ever seen this before. Please help!

**redz** · 12-11-2009, 01:57 PM

Definitely run a pct asap. Clomid/Nolva and HCG .

**Dukkit** · 12-11-2009, 02:15 PM

first off good job for taking some action and going to an endo.

then second good job for coming here, owning up to your mistake and asking advice.

alot more newbs need to take lessons.

now as for the matter at hand...

when did you get blood work taken?
should only be a week wait till results come back. thats what youll need to 100 % identify what needs fixed.

you could have low test still or normal test and high estrogen. so depending, will vary on what needs to be done.

so wait for those results. see what the doc says. if hes a dick then go to another doc or we'll help you out.

most likely id run another pct.
your young so test levels should be able to boune back.

mine did after quitting a cycle mid point and not being able to do pct. (was in jail)

took a few months but finally came back to normal

so let us know blood work results asap

**jojo81084** · 12-11-2009, 03:12 PM

thanks I will do so..he said it would probably be two weeks or so..b/s probably

in the meantime, if I can get some nolva and hcg do you think it would be ok to dose it until the results comes back.
also the doc said he would feel "morally wrong" for prescribin something that I was taking before to get right..unbelievable right...so im assuming hes talking about getting my levels back up with test.

what do you think?

jej

**Dukkit** · 12-11-2009, 03:58 PM

well hes probably referring to giving you test.

which i agree with. he should try and fix this instead of prescribing trt.

you could get some nolva/clomid/hcg yes.
i admit i would do so if i was in your shoes.
but then realize that if you start that stuff... then he gets resuls and wants to take some sort of action.. that you have to be careful you dont mess up stuff worse. like takin to many ai's and havin estrogen too low. which isnt good either.

**charlesriley** · 12-11-2009, 05:21 PM

first off your friends are a holes for setting you up with gear and not telling you about pct, thats un brotherly of them and highly neglegent.

anyway......test is produced by your pit gland in small amounts and most by your testicles, then your liver converts a little to estrogen, right now your testosterone production is shut down in your testes, but your endocrine system stil produces test that in your liver converts almost fully to estrogen because your progestin and estraidol levels are high and your testes are down. if you suppress estrogen with letrozole (your body reacts by turning the therometer type feedback mechanism back down and your hpta is told by LH to wake up, this all happened btw cuz the roids shot the therometer up shutting down the need for your hpta to produce anything good) and take clomid and hcg IMHO that would help you get your old self back. if you cant get hcg then take clomid and nolvadex , those you can get in 2 days from arr-r.com. its not just a hypogonadism problem its a host of hpta problems and your entire endocrine system needs to be told to wake up. the pct you can run needs to be so aggresive that your body goes back to original homeostasis...imo

somthing that may help is reading this.....http://www.hptaxis.com/2008/11/19/an...gonadism-asih/

then this .....Nippon Hinyokika Gakkai Zasshi. 2008 Nov;99(7):729-32.

[Case of androgenic anabolic steroid abuse caused hypogonadotropic hypogonadism]
[Article in Japanese]

Takayanagi A, Kobayashi K, Hashimoto K, Kato R, Masumori N, Itoh N, Tsukamoto T.

Departments of Urology, Sapporo Medical University School of Medicine, Sapporo, Japan.

A 32-year-old man complained about a reduction of testicular volume.He had been abusing androgenic anabolic steroids (AAS) for 7 years. Genital examination revealed that both testicular volumes were reduced to 13 ml. Endocrinological investigations showed luteinizing hormone, follicle-stimulating hormone and total testosterone (Total T) levels to be low. The level of free testosterone (Free T) was documented to be high. Later, sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) and calculated bioavailable testosterone (cBAT) levels were found to be low. Based on these features, we diagnosed his condition as hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism caused by AAS abuse. We first forbade him to use AAS, but the symptoms and endocrinological features were not improved. Then treatment with injections of human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) was started.......................

you can read more about HCG on steriod .com

**charlesriley** · 12-11-2009, 05:24 PM

if he wants to put you on hrt thats a lifelong treat ment, scew that at least try a pct, tell him your gonna try to do a pct once yall get the blood work, in fact why wait????? hrt is lifelong if he is gonna prescribe that to you it can def wait, he will not likely put you on a pct. its like not trying a full court shot at the end of a basketball game that has 2 seconds left and your down by 1,,,,you can still win bro....

i hope you do win btw, best of luck bro

**jojo81084** · 12-13-2009, 02:25 PM

listen, im definately freakin now. I hear that deca can shut you down permanantly. I dont know what to do guys. A buddy said to definately take some hcg along with clomid that might help but I wont be able to get that for 2 weeks. I hope im not screwed and will be able to get back to normal one day.. This acne and hair loss thing is unbelievable..depressed like you wouldnt believe!! Any more suggestions?

**charlesriley** · 12-14-2009, 01:08 PM

order the clomid or tamoxifen from the website link at the top right hand corner they express ship. goto GNC and get novadex xt , and get green tea extract pills the novedex xt is a mild pct oct product and the green tea reduces tnf-alphas ability to down regulate testosterone receptors after a cycle, i add it to my clomid pct's.

novedex is not suffiecient for pct alone however if i have a emergency and see estrogenic side effects its half as strong as the real nolvadex , its is at gnc though so you can go get it and cushion yourself until you have a legit prescription name....

if i was you i would get the real PCT meds asap but for the time bieng get the green and white box from gnc as well called applied delivery sytems, it is a 60% as strong as clomid pct.........and the applied delivery system test booster/pct is actually really effective at reducing dht not so much estro only a little there but it will do for now. its a white and green shiny box . the guy at gnc probly knows it as a test booster even though it has PCT right on the box.

get hcg , clomid and nolvadex as soon as you can but these other things can help and will get your endocrine system to go from deep sleep to light nap.

so.. novedex xt and applied delivery systems pct and green tea pills from gnc you can get today....preferabbly as soon as you read this and after you order the clomid and tamoxifen TODAY, use a high dose for the otc stuff and once you get the real shyt then you take the reall shyt.

**charlesriley** · 12-14-2009, 01:15 PM

http://www.thermolife.com/store/Scri...p?idproduct=18

i used this in a emergency a while back, its at gnc......i worked at gnc at one point. not anymore but alot of guys use the three things i have told you about for emergencys or as a additive to pct's....

and remeber you need the real shiiit. theis other stuff is half as strong and you need to take 2 or 3 times as much to see your nuts and body back to normal. tthey are good additives imho but not saviors like tamox and clomiphene

**charlesriley** · 12-14-2009, 01:18 PM

keep me posted and email me [email protected].
i want to know what happens and i will help as much as i can

**jojo81084** · 12-14-2009, 04:26 PM

ok so i already picked up the novedex xt. How many should I take? alot of people are saying that the novedex took sex drivce away etc..made things worse...also the liquid form at ar-r ..is that the real deal of just as good as the pill form? Also a bodybuilder told me about amercelllabs.com or something like that has extremely good pct stuff? have you heard of this? until i can get the real..

thanks
joey

**charlesriley** · 12-15-2009, 10:22 PM

i take navedex, in my experience its a good thing i add it to cycles and pct's for its esrogen blocking effects. its not the real deal but its about half as good as the real deal, i take three before bed. its will help with the acne, your sex drive should actually increase like it does with me.

as for the arr-r stuff yeah its real, and amercell is reputable and have friends there but dont know from personal use.....im about to pm you

**charlesriley** · 12-15-2009, 10:26 PM

the reason the others mught not like novedex is two is a little underdosed, three is best at night before bed. plus get your diet in check, itll help ebate problems in peripheral areas. and stay away from high trans fat and especially processed meat like hot dogs and deli meat, it has lots of negative effects that has to do with hormones.

**jojo81084** · 12-21-2009, 08:53 PM

Alright, here are my results. I still feel like abosolute shit and want to know whats goin on.
Limits

Testosterone , serum 821 H ng/dl 280-800
Free Test(Direct) 19.6 pg/ml 9.3-26.5
Lutenizing hormone , S LH 6.4 mIU/ml 1.7-8.6

TSH 1.340 uIU/ml 0.450-4.500
Prolactin 9.6 ng/mL 4.0-15.2
FSH, Serum 2.4 mIU/mL 1.5-12.4
Cortisol-AM 15.8 ug/dL 6.2-19.4

Any suggestions, little worried about the TSH and FSH

**yowhatupU** · 12-21-2009, 11:35 PM

Everybody makes mistakes.

Do you think it is possible that you just feel like shit because you are so used to feeling great do to juice? (maybe not with deca though)
Also, have you had anything shitty happen to you that could make you feel like shit? Every time I've gotten depressed I've felt weak, tired...just shitty in general.
I had a similar thing happen and I thought it was due to a lack of test or some other hormone, later I realized that I was just depressed.
I hope you start to feel better!