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  1. #1
    BeefyKane is offline New Member
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    Smile First cycle (test-c and d-Bol) ADVICE URGENTLY NEEDED!!

    Hello, long time browser, first time poster here.
    Stats: 18yo, 65kgs, 5'7" 9-10%bf, been training for 2 years, have an excellent diet, and very knowledgable on the subject of body building (although my knowledge on steroids is not so great, but I'm learning).

    I am ready for my first cycle (in b4 you're too young). This is what I am planning on cycling, I would just like to have the advice of people who know what they are talking about before I go ahead with it, so my cycle is perfect.

    Week 1-12 Test-C 400mg EW
    Week 1-4 D-bol 20mg ED

    Now what I need to know is what else do I need to take DURING and AFTER (PCT) the cycle to avoid negative side effects such a gyno and losing my gains after the cycle.

    I am aware I need to take Nolvadex when I see signs of gyno, but I don't know any of the measurements.

    If you guys could help me out then it would be much appreciated!!

    Thanks
    Last edited by BeefyKane; 04-30-2011 at 02:11 PM.

  2. #2
    BeefyKane is offline New Member
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    Shameless self bump.

    Anyone?

  3. #3
    xeroxy is offline Junior Member
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    I would advise a low dose AI on cycle for estrogen management, hCG on cycle to keep the testes functioning and improve CYP450 dynamics and a standard PCT starting 3wks after your last injection.
    Standard PCT would look something like this:
    nolva 20/20/20/20
    clomid 100/50/50/50
    Vitamin D is also a good addition at around 2000iu ED and possibly some proviron at 50mg ED to help with libido and mood.

  4. #4
    BeefyKane is offline New Member
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    Thank you very much!
    What AI would you recommend, at what dosage and at what point in my cycle? And same with HCG ?

    I have read so much on PCT, but everyone seems to have a different opinion!!

    Is there anywhere I can find a 'standard first cycle PCT plan'?

    Thanks

  5. #5
    BeefyKane is offline New Member
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    Okay, I have done a little more reading and came across a really interesting article that I must have missed.
    Here is my revised PCT:
    Week 1-5 Clomid 25-50mg ED
    Week 1-5 Nolva 20mg ED
    Week 1-3/4 Aromasin 20-25mg ED

    What I know need to know is:
    a) Is this a good PCT?
    b) Exactly how much Clomid and Aromasin should I take? And should I take the Aromasin for 3 or 4 weeks?
    c) Do I even need Aromasin?
    d) Do I not need to take anything DURING my cycle? Or only during PCT?

    I appreciate any feedback!

    Thnaks

  6. #6
    warren916's Avatar
    warren916 is offline Associate Member
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    Lol thats gonna suck when your in your 20's and you meet a gorgeous girl and cant get a boner, your gonna look back and say, damn i wish i never cycled.

    Drop the cycle your WAY to young..you going to do permanent damage to your body.

  7. #7
    BeefyKane is offline New Member
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    Well the chances of that happening are minute if I have a fairly low dosage cycle of the right steroids and don't abuse with good PCT.

    Scaremongering me is not doing anyone any good, what would be more productive overall would be to help me prevent these negative effects or limit the risk of those happening.

    I'm going to do a cycle, I'm going to do it perfectly with an excellent diet and spotless PCT, and I am going to gain 20+Kgs and post the results on here.

    I really do appreciate your concern, but I do not need your opinion on whether or not I should do roids at 18, I need advice on whether this cycle is good or not.

  8. #8
    sanman's Avatar
    sanman is offline Associate Member
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    I am not here to preach to anyone but you are not going to get alot of help with your cycle on this forum due to your age.Just a heads up & my 2cents!

  9. #9
    layeazy is offline Banned
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    crazy crazy those stats are weak...

    cant help you mate too young and very very inexperience the only thing i can offer is naturally bulk up alot more there are no excuses....

  10. #10
    BeefyKane is offline New Member
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    I don't know what you people don't understand about "I don't want to have a 'huge' look, just an aesthetic one."

    I don't WANT to reach my genetic potential then use steroids , I only want to be just a tad over my genetic potential.

    Why can't I take steroids then?

    Besides not making maximum gains overall, what other negative effects are there?

  11. #11
    Tlee8769's Avatar
    Tlee8769 is offline Associate Member
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    Dude for your own benefit do not use AAS go to the diet section and let the guys their critique it you are in no way close to be using AAS you are so young and the potential of serious permanent side effects such as low sex drive and low test levels for life and your junk not working properly is not worth any benefits you would gain off of the compounds. You are way to young its the best advice you will get you have the highest test levels of your life right now believe me eat properly and it will do a much better job than any AAS will do.

  12. #12
    testomax is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeefyKane View Post
    Hello, long time browser, first time poster here.
    Stats: 18yo, 65kgs, 5'7" 9-10%bf, been training for 2 years, have an excellent diet, and very knowledgable on the subject of body building (although my knowledge on steroids is not so great, but I'm learning).

    I am ready for my first cycle (in b4 you're too young). This is what I am planning on cycling, I would just like to have the advice of people who know what they are talking about before I go ahead with it, so my cycle is perfect.

    Week 1-12 Test-C 400mg EW
    Week 1-4 D-bol 20mg ED

    Now what I need to know is what else do I need to take DURING and AFTER (PCT) the cycle to avoid negative side effects such a gyno and losing my gains after the cycle.

    I am aware I need to take Nolvadex when I see signs of gyno, but I don't know any of the measurements.

    If you guys could help me out then it would be much appreciated!!

    Thanks
    first of all at 18 y/o your test levels are at a max and you dont need steroids. This is going to spell trouble for you in a couple of years. secondly you have only been training 2 years so you have not reached your max growth potential naturally. I would personally train,diet and supplement hard for another 2 years before considering a cycle.

    As for your cycle, test cyp is along acting test and for max cycle results i would run this for 16 weeks. for fist cycle 15 mg dbol every day will suffice. Take milk thistle evry day for first four weeks while on dbol to protect from liver damage.If bloating or gyno becomes a problem run nolva 20 mg per day for about 3-4 days until problem has subsided. Discontinue the nolva after problem has subsided as it takes away from your mass gains. Hcg will need to be taken beginning at your last shot of test and stopped before you begin pct. Here is how this cycle will look layed out(i presume you have your diet and training in order):...........

    week 1-4: Test-C 400mg EW
    Dbol 15 mg ED
    Milk thistle ED(directions on the label)
    Nolva 20mg per day as needed(max 3-4 days at a time)
    week 4-16: Test-C 400mg EW
    Nolva 20mg per day as needed(max 2-3 days at a time), may not be needed at this dosage of test
    week 16-19: HCG 1 shot twice weekly eg. monday,friday or tuesday,saturday etc...
    week 19-22: Nolva 20mg per day
    ZMA 1 dose per night

  13. #13
    Tlee8769's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by testomax View Post
    first of all at 18 y/o your test levels are at a max and you dont need steroids . This is going to spell trouble for you in a couple of years. secondly you have only been training 2 years so you have not reached your max growth potential naturally. I would personally train,diet and supplement hard for another 2 years before considering a cycle.

    As for your cycle, test cyp is along acting test and for max cycle results i would run this for 16 weeks. for fist cycle 15 mg dbol every day will suffice. Take milk thistle evry day for first four weeks while on dbol to protect from liver damage.If bloating or gyno becomes a problem run nolva 20 mg per day for about 3-4 days until problem has subsided. Discontinue the nolva after problem has subsided as it takes away from your mass gains. Hcg will need to be taken beginning at your last shot of test and stopped before you begin pct. Here is how this cycle will look layed out(i presume you have your diet and training in order):...........

    week 1-4: Test-C 400mg EW
    Dbol 15 mg ED
    Milk thistle ED(directions on the label)
    Nolva 20mg per day as needed(max 3-4 days at a time)
    week 4-16: Test-C 400mg EW
    Nolva 20mg per day as needed(max 2-3 days at a time), may not be needed at this dosage of test
    week 16-19: HCG 1 shot twice weekly eg. monday,friday or tuesday,saturday etc...
    week 19-22: Nolva 20mg per day
    ZMA 1 dose per night
    Do not listen to this Clown bad advice. Do not give an underage user advice on anything except diet. You say no dont do that then say here is what you do that is terrible advice and we do not need someone like you on this site and we certainly do not condone underage use period.

  14. #14
    kinderbueno is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by testomax View Post
    first of all at 18 y/o your test levels are at a max and you dont need steroids . This is going to spell trouble for you in a couple of years. secondly you have only been training 2 years so you have not reached your max growth potential naturally. I would personally train,diet and supplement hard for another 2 years before considering a cycle.

    As for your cycle, test cyp is along acting test and for max cycle results i would run this for 16 weeks. for fist cycle 15 mg dbol every day will suffice. Take milk thistle evry day for first four weeks while on dbol to protect from liver damage.If bloating or gyno becomes a problem run nolva 20 mg per day for about 3-4 days until problem has subsided. Discontinue the nolva after problem has subsided as it takes away from your mass gains. Hcg will need to be taken beginning at your last shot of test and stopped before you begin pct. Here is how this cycle will look layed out(i presume you have your diet and training in order):...........

    week 1-4: Test-C 400mg EW
    Dbol 15 mg ED
    Milk thistle ED(directions on the label)
    Nolva 20mg per day as needed(max 3-4 days at a time)
    week 4-16: Test-C 400mg EW
    Nolva 20mg per day as needed(max 2-3 days at a time), may not be needed at this dosage of test
    week 16-19: HCG 1 shot twice weekly eg. monday,friday or tuesday,saturday etc...
    week 19-22: Nolva 20mg per day
    ZMA 1 dose per night

    Thank you very much.
    Wouldn't you preffer I did a cycle safely and correct, rather than with no advice on my own. I'm going to do a cycle.

  15. #15
    Tlee8769's Avatar
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    The guy giving you advice is a new member and completly useless and uneducated on the subject. You are 18 yo you have no reason using AAS and the advice your getting is incorrect you should be in the diet section learning how to get the proper gains without the use of it. You want the potential for you never to get rock hard when with your girl or never have a sex drive again thats a great possibility. And what about low test levels the rest of your life sounds pretty fun have a quick read http://www.steroid.com/Low-Testosterone.php . Listen very closely do not listen to his advice you will regret it Im not your dad but i am looking out for you here. "The Young and Steroids " by MARCUS 300

    Due to the recent number of PM's ive been receiving regarding age and steroids I thought i'd write this thread to try and help some of our younger members. Ive also been having a conversation with my Endocrinologist who may give a more profession opinion on the subject:

    There isn't an exact age were we all stop developing and growing because this is determined by our genes and DNA, we are all genetically programmed individually and we inherit our genes from our parents. To give an exact age we stop growing would be incorrect because everyone's genetic blueprint is different.The main development of our bodies is up to the age of 21yrs of age but this can vary between individuals. There are parts of our bodies what carry on developing and adjusting slowly up until the age of 25yrs old, an example of this is the brain. The Endocrine system is a part of the brain what is very complex and keeps our bodies in a homeostasis state. Our testosterone levels start raising and roughly peak around 25yrs old and then start to slowly decline, so even though some of us may have stopped growing at the age of 21yrs old, others may still be developing up until the age of 25yrs old.

    I have recently spoken to my Endo regarding this matter and he tells me that the HPTA is very sensitive and as many pathways how it regulates the human body, he states steroids disrupt the normal balance of hormones in the body which can cause reversible and irreversible changes at any age but risks are far more if you administrate exogenous androgens during development, this will put you in a very unnatural environment at a crucial time and your hormones should be treated with care especially in the early stages of maturity. The adverse effects can be erratic behaviour of the HPTA and potentially therapy when your older.

    I did ask him what age he would think would be the safest as far as risk to damages and he said many endocrinologist suggest full maturation is reached by 25 years of age and this would also give the HPTA time to be established with your natural hormone balance and patterns. I personally feel 24-25yrs old would also be ideal starting point to get bloodwrok drawn to see exact what your natural levels are before starting any kind of cycles and waiting till you have reach your testosterone peak would be a good starting point, for me there is to much evidence over the forums and what I've seen personally over the last 25yrs I've been bodybuilding. Obviously it isn't going to be all 19- 21yr old bodybuilders who suffer side effects what are irreversible but I am edging on the side of caution what age I advice to the newbies.
    Marcus

    That is correct information to give you bro from a Vet highly respected on this site im telling you its all up to you now but you have the information why not to do it now it is all up to you. You do not want those issues at such a young age.

  16. #16
    lovbyts's Avatar
    lovbyts is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kinderbueno View Post
    Thank you very much.
    Wouldn't you preffer I did a cycle safely and correct, rather than with no advice on my own. I'm going to do a cycle.
    No, bad advice is still bad even if it's meant in a good way. Would suggesting someone to use one rope over another due to less chance of it causing a rope burn to hang themself be considered good advice?

    Yeah there is little chance of you having a problem, same little chance as the 100s of post on here from kids your age who DID have a problem and openly admitted they also thought it wouldn’t happen to them. Now that being said and yes there are 100s of post from kids such as yourself do you thing that 100% of them who had problems posted here looking for help?, 90%, 80%, 70%? I would say 5% or less so how many does that leave? A LOT.

    There is no such thing as a conservative cycle at your age. ANY amount of testosterone /aas will shut your natural testosterone production down and due to your HPTA not being fully developed until mid 20s it will have a harder time re-starting your natural test levels even with the proper PCT. If you want to show any signs of maturity you will hold off, learn more and find ways to reach your goal with hard work, diet, training and education.

  17. #17
    Tlee8769's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lovbyts View Post
    No, bad advice is still bad even if it's meant in a good way. Would suggesting someone to use one rope over another due to less chance of it causing a rope burn to hang themself be considered good advice?

    Yeah there is little chance of you having a problem, same little chance as the 100s of post on here from kids your age who DID have a problem and openly admitted they also thought it wouldn’t happen to them. Now that being said and yes there are 100s of post from kids such as yourself do you thing that 100% of them who had problems posted here looking for help?, 90%, 80%, 70%? I would say 5% or less so how many does that leave? A LOT.

    There is no such thing as a conservative cycle at your age. ANY amount of testosterone/aas will shut your natural testosterone production down and due to your HPTA not being fully developed until mid 20s it will have a harder time re-starting your natural test levels even with the proper PCT. If you want to show any signs of maturity you will hold off, learn more and find ways to reach your goal with hard work, diet, training and education.

    ^^^^^ Great advice ^^^^^^^^

  18. #18
    baseline_9's Avatar
    baseline_9 is offline The Transformer ~VET~Recognized Staff Winner - $100
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    Quote Originally Posted by xeroxy View Post
    I would advise a low dose AI on cycle for estrogen management, hCG on cycle to keep the testes functioning and improve CYP450 dynamics and a standard PCT starting 3wks after your last injection.
    Standard PCT would look something like this:
    nolva 20/20/20/20
    clomid 100/50/50/50
    Vitamin D is also a good addition at around 2000iu ED and possibly some proviron at 50mg ED to help with libido and mood.
    Quote Originally Posted by testomax View Post
    first of all at 18 y/o your test levels are at a max and you dont need steroids . This is going to spell trouble for you in a couple of years. secondly you have only been training 2 years so you have not reached your max growth potential naturally. I would personally train,diet and supplement hard for another 2 years before considering a cycle.

    As for your cycle, test cyp is along acting test and for max cycle results i would run this for 16 weeks. for fist cycle 15 mg dbol every day will suffice. Take milk thistle evry day for first four weeks while on dbol to protect from liver damage.If bloating or gyno becomes a problem run nolva 20 mg per day for about 3-4 days until problem has subsided. Discontinue the nolva after problem has subsided as it takes away from your mass gains. Hcg will need to be taken beginning at your last shot of test and stopped before you begin pct. Here is how this cycle will look layed out(i presume you have your diet and training in order):...........

    week 1-4: Test-C 400mg EW
    Dbol 15 mg ED
    Milk thistle ED(directions on the label)
    Nolva 20mg per day as needed(max 3-4 days at a time)
    week 4-16: Test-C 400mg EW
    Nolva 20mg per day as needed(max 2-3 days at a time), may not be needed at this dosage of test
    week 16-19: HCG 1 shot twice weekly eg. monday,friday or tuesday,saturday etc...
    week 19-22: Nolva 20mg per day
    ZMA 1 dose per night
    Please don't advise teen's on how to run AAS....

    Also, do no state that they don't need AAS and then continue to share your useless knowledge in an attempt to gain respect from the vulnerable...

    And to the OP... Please visit the thriving diet section where you will get all the help you need to get where you want over the next 5 years...
    Don't be a 'Bro'..... Believe nothing....Question everything

    Baseline - Working to phase out this generation of Bro-Scientists

    Stop over thinking nutrition - If you want something to think about download Myfitnesspal and learn how to count macros




  19. #19
    YoungMan is offline Associate Member
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    hes just old enough to purchase gnc products... and some still advice 21 years of age

  20. #20
    ny_livvy is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by warren916 View Post
    Lol thats gonna suck when your in your 20's and you meet a gorgeous girl and cant get a boner, your gonna look back and say, damn i wish i never cycled.

    Drop the cycle your WAY to young..you going to do permanent damage to your body.
    Just wondering what is considered too young to cycle? I'm sure I'm not but I did my first about 4 yrs ago and want to make sure I didnt mess myself up, Thx

  21. #21
    baseline_9's Avatar
    baseline_9 is offline The Transformer ~VET~Recognized Staff Winner - $100
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    Get bloodwork done
    Don't be a 'Bro'..... Believe nothing....Question everything

    Baseline - Working to phase out this generation of Bro-Scientists

    Stop over thinking nutrition - If you want something to think about download Myfitnesspal and learn how to count macros




  22. #22
    Tlee8769's Avatar
    Tlee8769 is offline Associate Member
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    You did AAS when you were 14 ? What kind of cycle you do and pct?

  23. #23
    ny_livvy is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tlee8769 View Post
    You did AAS when you were 14 ? What kind of cycle you do and pct?
    I'm no sure if your post was to me or not, but thought I would clarify in case it was... I am 31 now and did my first cycle when I was 26 or so.... That wasn't too young right? I just want to make sure I didn't mess up my body somehow... Thx

  24. #24
    Windex is offline Staff ~ HRT Optimization Specialist
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    Quote Originally Posted by ny_livvy View Post
    I'm no sure if your post was to me or not, but thought I would clarify in case it was... I am 31 now and did my first cycle when I was 26 or so.... That wasn't too young right? I just want to make sure I didn't mess up my body somehow... Thx
    Bloodwork is the only way to know if you created biological problems.

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