Questions if pct in really needed or not. Looking for answers with good sources.

**awhiteboy777** · 06-15-2012, 07:12 PM

I dont really see the need for clomid after a 4 week moderate cycle . Did sterodrol 2 cycles 30-on 30-off and had wonderful gains but had to stop due to liver and kidney pains post cycle. Most people think this stuff is junk but it works trust me. Went from 15 1/2 inch arms to 18 inch arms in 4 months and this was after water weight resided. I am starting d-bol next week and going to do a 4 week cycle along with Androsta-3,5-diene-7,17-dione (AKA 3-deoxy-7-oxo-DHEA) and a estrogen blocker. I have heard clomid or other pct treatments aren't necessary for only moderate cycles and do nothing for keeping the gains. Feedback on what pct does for you guys would be great. I know it is common to lose some gains after a cycle but I would like to minimize this. Looking to make some new friends on here so me me up.

height 6'3
weight 230lbs
bf 20+%

**gixxerboy1** · 06-15-2012, 07:15 PM

at 20% bf you shouldnt be using anything especially d-bol.
When you take hormones you shut down you bodies natural test production. So pct helps restart your system. I would never not do pct. There is no reason not to use pct

**awhiteboy777** · 06-15-2012, 07:30 PM

Hmmm very interesting. I would like some sources gixxerboy1. Well I guess it was a dumb question. I dont see what my body fat has to do with it. I am not obese just a lil body fat. What are some good pct treatments. I am going to use whether you say to or not. So some advice would be good.

**Far from massive** · 06-16-2012, 08:57 AM

Testosterone should be included in any cycle.

The reason is simple, since the bodies own testosterone production will be shut down by any other AAS you need to include testosterone on any steroid cycle.

This takes us to issue number two, some of the testosterone is converted to estrogen through a process known as aromatization. Aromatization takes place in the fat cells of the body so the higher the body fat the greater the chances for unwanted side effects like gynocomastia IE man boobs. So this is what body fat has to do with it.

Since you are going to use anyway I doubt many will waste a lot of time trying to educate you, however you would be well advised to read, read, read before starting on a steroid cycle. Keep in mind you will be taking drugs with the ability to cause life long damage to your body and having good base knowlege will help to greatly reduce this risk. You need a lot more information than anyone will type out question by question, its kinda like asking someone how to do visual basic programming... its really fairly complicated.

Also a quick footnote, since you have already had liver and kidney problems, you for sure want to stay clear of any oral steroids since they all with the possible exception of anavar put a serious strain on the liver. Injectables conversely put very little load on the liver.

**JWP806** · 06-16-2012, 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by awhiteboy777

I am going to use whether you say to or not. So some advice would be good.

I've been a long-time member of the board, just usually browsing for information and it seems like every newbie comes in with this type of attitude. Basically like "tell me what I want to hear or I will just use them anyway." You guys have a lot of patience.

**Armykid93** · 06-16-2012, 10:01 AM

The higher your bf is the higher your risk of all the nasty side effects are as well

**gixxerboy1** · 06-16-2012, 10:07 AM

higher bp as well especially
and if taking d-bol also alot of ph's are worse for you then steroids , thats prob why you had kidney and liver issues, just plain test is alot safer

**JohnnnyBlazzze** · 06-16-2012, 10:13 AM

Why do you continue to take oral cycles when you have liver and kidney problems, That's like eating rat poison and wondering why your hair is falling out, just plain stupid if you ask me.

4 week cycles? Pointless. As gixx mentioned when you take AAS you're natural Test production stops and your hormones go out of wack, I don't see the concept of not doing PCT, it literally confuses me why people ask if PCT is necessary? Maybe you're just lazy and stubborn and don't want to hear people tell you that you need to PCT.

If you're looking for somebody to back you up on your justification of not doing a PCT you're not going to find that type support or guidance here. You've been informed on what to do by some knowledgeable and experienced users, If you choose to not accept this information then that's your problem. Why did you come here and ask this question in the first place?

**gixxerboy1** · 06-16-2012, 11:18 AM

johnnny i agree. I cant think of a reason not to do pct. What so you can save a few $$ on not buying the stuff? That would be the only thing. I cant imagine spending the money on a cycle putting the time and effort in. Then loose most of it because you went cheap and didnt pct

**JohnnnyBlazzze** · 06-16-2012, 11:17 PM

Originally Posted by gixxerboy1

johnnny i agree. I cant think of a reason not to do pct. What so you can save a few $$ on not buying the stuff? That would be the only thing. I cant imagine spending the money on a cycle putting the time and effort in. Then loose most of it because you went cheap and didnt pct

I'm with you on this. It's the kids nowadays they see there friends get "big" and don't do a PCT so they assume they don't need it. Or they don't know where to get it so they make up this idea in there mind that "Well maybe I don't really need it!, my friends didn't!"

I have a buddy who never used a AI or PCT. He was massive and in great shape but as soon as he came off he shrank back down to nothing. If you really think about it, he pretty much wasted all his money, time, and dedication on NOTHING. I wish I could show you pics of him before cycle, during cycle, and after cycle but obviously I wouldn't do that to a good friend of mine. Not to mention he always has to walk around with Cialis to please his lady, she has no idea he takes them.

**awhiteboy777** · 06-18-2012, 04:48 PM

Great feedback FAR FROM MASSIVE. I think the problems with my first two cycles was not drinking enough water and I did no pct at all plus I went on a bad drinking binge. So pretty did three of the BIG nos. I am going to do 20mg of d-bol 3 times a day along with test and an estrogen blocker. I am going to quit the d-bol after 30 days and keep on the estrogen blocker and might use some clomid for a few weeks to get my test back on track.

**awhiteboy777** · 06-18-2012, 04:55 PM

Well I recently checked body fat I am down to 15% been doing a cut cycle with nothing but protein shakes and just eating right. This was tough cause I lost a full inch off my arms. I went from 18 inch arms to 17. I am going to use test with my cycle and use clomid for a few weeks starting 24hours after my last d-bol dose. I appreciate the honest feedback. I'll be honest i didn't do my first cycles to well. I have no liver or kidney problems or any health problems. It was the huge test boost of my first cycle and 200 grams of protein a day that was overworking the kidneys. i basically did too much to quick.