Clomid + Nolva necessary?

[ThatAthlete82]

For a Test E only cycle(500mg/10wk) can I just use nolvadex@40/40/20/20? I've been using Nolva at the aforementioned dosage along with clomid at 100mg ed for about a week now and my vision is a little blurry, I heard clomid can cause vision problems so can I just stop using it and recover well with nolvadex solo?

[snowman]

I would keep using both.... keep using nolva like you have planned... since you been using clomid for about a week now at 100mg a day, now cut down to 50 mg a day, for another 3 or 4 weeks... the vision problems should go away cause you cutting down, i normally have blurry vision the first week, then it goes away... PCT is very important, so i would advise keep using both IF you want to recover well and not loose to much muscle..

[jimmyinkedup]

^^ I agree ...also take your pct meds before bed. I have found that any sides like the one you mentioned do not occur when I do this.

[RustedIron]

I'd say it's overkill. There is not an elevated level of estrogen for anti-estrogens to block during this window, as testosterone (now suppressed) is a major substrate used for the synthesis of estrogen in men! Anti-estrogens (SERMs) alone are inadequate to restore normal endogenous testosterone production after a cycle. Anti-estrogens alone misses the true problem: testicular desensitization. You should see about adding HCG to your PCT

[jimmyinkedup]

^^ hmm id say ad hcg on cycle or towards end of cycle UP to pct ...not in pct as its suppressive. Also the purpose of serms in pct is to antagonize the e receptor and "trick" the body to produce endogenous test - not to control estrogen in any way.
This thread is a good read on this topic: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...&#.UDy-y6N0jQI

[RustedIron]

^^ hmm id say ad hcg on cycle or towards end of cycle UP to pct ...not in pct as its suppressive. Also the purpose of serms in pct is to antagonize the e receptor and "trick" the body to produce endogenous test - not to control estrogen in any way.
This thread is a good read on this topic: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...&#.UDy-y6N0jQI

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You're right this is true. The role of ant-e in a PCT is more than just "blocking estrogen". It does stop the negative feedback being sent by Estrogen and tricks the brain into producing more LH. However, it will only produce so much LH. The trick is to increase the level of LH to where it's shocking the testes with unnaturally high levels of stimulation. HCG mimics the body's natural LH.

[auswest]

I dropped my clomid start of week 2 and ran nolva only for that week, I felt awful back on clomid now and feel much better. Bit emotional though

[Lemonada8]

I'd say it's overkill. There is not an elevated level of estrogen for anti-estrogens to block during this window, as testosterone (now suppressed) is a major substrate used for the synthesis of estrogen in men! Anti-estrogens (SERMs) alone are inadequate to restore normal endogenous testosterone production after a cycle . Anti-estrogens alone misses the true problem: testicular desensitization. You should see about adding HCG to your PCT

You're right this is true. The role of ant-e in a PCT is more than just "blocking estrogen". It does stop the negative feedback being sent by Estrogen and tricks the brain into producing more LH. However, it will only produce so much LH. The trick is to increase the level of LH to where it's shocking the testes with unnaturally high levels of stimulation. HCG mimics the body's natural LH.

Right but missing some subtle details... when u have HCG in a PCT state, u only prolong the inhibition along with increasing aromatase ( hcg does this seperate from its LH actions), so by using it in PCT and providing the LH thats needed from an external source, the natural LH isnt doing its job and that just makes it longer to re-balance the HPTA.

Also, with HCg in PCT, you increase the amount of LH that is produced to become bio-inactive LH ( which is exactly what it says.. it doesnt work) So when the HCG is stopped, the pit is producing LH but its in its inactive form.

HCG is best on cycle because of the neg feedback inhibiting LH from the pit, but you dont have the risk of Intra-testicular Testosterone volume decreasing ( aka teste atrophy aka small balls) which can induce apoptosis of the Sertoli and Leydig cells which only hurts the body in the long run.

Clomid and Nolva ( SERMs) do a very good job in restoring normal test levels after a cycle by their actions at the pit, hence their usage in PCT. Also, ( yes it nit-picky but noobs can be confused) SERM's are NOT anti-estrogens, those are AI's. They only block the receptor and modulate actions at the pituitary, which is taken advantage of in a PCT.

[jimmyinkedup]

^^ well said and well explained Lemon .....