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  1. #1
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    Question Blood Test Results - Private MD Labs (Please Help Read)

    I'm the guy that's making posts about my Gyno getting worse. It's been 5-6 months since my cycle. Here's the results of my blood test. Where am I at guys?

    TESTS RESULT UNITS REFERENCE INTERVAL
    Testosterone, Serum 346 ng/dL 348-1197
    Testosterone, Free 10.90 ng/dL 5.00-21.00
    % Free Testosterone 3.15 % 1.50-4.20
    Estradiol, Sensitive 12 pg/mL 3-70

    Also, these were flags on the blood test but I'm not sure if they're relevant to my gyno.

    TESTS RESULT UNITS REFERENCE INTERVAL
    Neutrophils 36 % 40-74
    Lymphs 47 % 14-46
    Monocytes 14 % 4-13
    BUN 22 mg/dL 6-20
    AST (SGOT) 50 IU/L 0-40
    ALT (SGPT) 64 IU/L 0-44

  2. #2
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    So what should I do guys? Do another cycle? Does any of this explain why I'm having Gyno symptoms?
    Last edited by RustedIron; 01-30-2013 at 02:00 PM.

  3. #3
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    im no expert when it comes to blood work
    but i know that you shouldnt do a cycle . You shouldnt do one. you have to fix your issues
    i can see that testosterone is low
    did you do proper pct ?
    also your E2 seems within range, did you do any 19nors ? might be prolactin build up lead into gyno

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granovich View Post
    im no expert when it comes to blood work
    but i know that you shouldnt do a cycle . You shouldnt do one. you have to fix your issues
    i can see that testosterone is low
    did you do proper pct ?
    also your E2 seems within range, did you do any 19nors ? might be prolactin build up lead into gyno
    My PCT wasn't great to be honest. Just did Nolva and Clomid... ended up stopping half way through due to tremendous migraines. Couldn't get a hold of HCG either which is what I really wanted. I didn't do anything else... I tried Nolva/Aromasin about 2 months after PCT to manage the gyno..which seemed to do the job. So I stopped after 4 weeks. Now I'm back to square one.

    How do I fix the low test then? Go to the doc and get hormone replacement therapy? Just wait it out? I'm almost 30 by the way

  5. #5
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    I was reading out of the ANABOLICS reference guide that I could take Test E in hormone replacement therapy. I would only take 250mg once every 21 days.
    Studies showed a 5% increase in bone mineral density after six months. Over time this may prevent some loss of height and bone strength with aging, and may also reduce the risk of fracture. Hormone replacement therapy also increases red blood cell concentrations (oxygen carrying capcacity), improving energy and sense of well-being. Therapy also supports the retnention of lean body mass, and improves muscle strength and endurance.

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    You could ignore the blood cell count differentials (neutrophils, etc). The hormones tested are all within range. The mild elevation I your LFTs is probably from current or recent AAS use. Look into tauroursodeoxycholic acid (which is OTC) or ursodiol (which is prescription). Also consider adding since NAC.
    Your BUN shows that you're most likely dehydrated mildly, but it's difficult to interpret without a creatinine level.

  7. #7
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    how old are you ?
    do you have low testosterone sides ? loss of sex drive, ED, low energy, loss of muscle or strength ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Granovich View Post
    how old are you ?
    do you have low testosterone sides ? loss of sex drive, ED, low energy, loss of muscle or strength ?
    29 going on 30. Honestly... not really. I have sex probably an average 2 times a day with my gf. I do have loss of muscle and strength though.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnabolicDoc View Post
    You could ignore the blood cell count differentials (neutrophils, etc). The hormones tested are all within range. The mild elevation I your LFTs is probably from current or recent AAS use. Look into tauroursodeoxycholic acid (which is OTC) or ursodiol (which is prescription). Also consider adding since NAC.
    Your BUN shows that you're most likely dehydrated mildly, but it's difficult to interpret without a creatinine level.
    In regards to BUN.. my creatinine level is 1.15mg/dL. Reference scale is 0.76-1.27

    So I don't need to be worried about the CBC stuff? I suppose I was dehydrated due to fasting. What is NAC, OTC, and URSODIOL?

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    Your creatinine although within reference range may be high. It is likely somewhat higher than your normal due to mild dehydration. To give you an idea of your kidney function I need to know how old you are, your body weight (estimated lean body weight), race, and albumin (it may have been part of your blood work). There are two equations that use creatinine to estimate kidney function. This info will allow me to calculate both and average them.

    Yes you can ignore the blood counts differentials. You didn't put up your CBC results, you only posted the white blood cell count differential (there are more than one type of white blood cell, what you posted are the percentages of each type).

    OTC = over the counter

    NAC = n-acetyl cysteine. It helps to restore glutathione levels in your liver

    Ursodiol is a synthetic form of ursodeoxycholic acid. This and tauroursodeoxycholic acid are used to treat certain liberty conditions, including anabolic steroid induced liver injury. They work by helping the liver eliminate waste by clearing the binary tree.
    Last edited by AnabolicDoc; 01-30-2013 at 03:47 PM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnabolicDoc View Post
    Your creatinine although within reference range may be high. It is likely somewhat higher than your normal due to mild dehydration. To give you an idea of your kidney function I need to know how old you are, your body weight (estimated lean body weight), race, and albumin (it may have been part of your blood work). There are two equations that use creatinine to estimate kidney function. This info will allow me to calculate both and average them.

    Yes you can ignore the blood counts differentials. You didn't put up your CBC results, you only posted the white blood cell count differential (there are more than one type of white blood cell, what you posted are the percentages of each type).

    OTC = over the counter

    NAC = n-acetyl cysteine. It helps to restore glutathione levels in your liver

    Ursodiol is a synthetic form of ursodeoxycholic acid. This and tauroursodeoxycholic acid are used to treat certain liberty conditions, including anabolic steroid induced liver injury. They work by helping the liver eliminate waste by clearing the binary tree.
    Thank you AnabolicDoc for your attentiveness. Much appreciated. Here's the requested info:


    AGE 30
    BODY WEIGHT 180
    RACE Caucasian/White
    ALBUMIN, serum 4.7g/dL (Ref Scale of 3.5 - 5.5)

  12. #12
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    So what's next guys? How do I stop the Gyno? What's the best course of action?

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    I saw your post on the gyno. You seemed to have gotten a lot of info. What needs are you using now? Which AI and what dose? And what SERM? Raloxifene, tamoxifen , or both (as some suggested)?

  14. #14
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    So the average of the two equations of kidney function, comes out to a creatinine clearance average of 94ml/min. Ideal it's probably 120 our higher but it starts to drop of gradually around 30 years of age. I think your number is fine and will improve with some hydration

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    Quote Originally Posted by AnabolicDoc View Post
    I saw your post on the gyno. You seemed to have gotten a lot of info. What needs are you using now? Which AI and what dose? And what SERM? Raloxifene, tamoxifen, or both (as some suggested)?
    Well before I create a plan with all of the information I've received... I want to understand why the Gyno is even present since my estradiol seems to be fine. What is causing the onset of Gyno?

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    Does anyone understand this? I thought gyno was a result of high E2? No?

  17. #17
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    Your estradiol levels must have been high when the gyno started. Now that your estradiol it's normal, has it regressed or at least stopped growing.

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    What did you use in cycle before your pct ?
    Did you use AI throughout ?

    Cuz your testosterone is low. For your age it shodnt be less than 600
    I would say do scally protocol. hCG and nolvadex ,clomid

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granovich View Post
    What did you use in cycle before your pct ?
    Did you use AI throughout ?

    Cuz your testosterone is low. For your age it shodnt be less than 600
    I would say do scally protocol. hCG and nolvadex,clomid
    Good news!!! I finally got my hands on hCG . So I should research this Scally protocol. My cycle was awful. Stupid friend suggested it.

    Winstrol (Stanozolol ) 75mg every other day
    Equipoise (Boldenone Undecylenate) 400mg/week (broken up into 2 injections)

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnabolicDoc View Post
    Your estradiol levels must have been high when the gyno started. Now that your estradiol it's normal, has it regressed or at least stopped growing.
    I guess it might have stopped...but I can't tell. It sneaks up on me and BOOM. But lately it's seemed to have slowed. It's certainly not back to the way I was before this all began. I feel like I have man boobs and I can just grab a nice chunk of my man boob. There's still a hard marble sized tissue thing behind the nipple.

  21. #21
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    Should I just find a PCT and go with it? Scally protocol?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustedIron View Post
    Should I just find a PCT and go with it? Scally protocol?
    I didn't see how that will get rid of your gyno. Try an AI at full dose and raloxifene at 60mg per day. If you don't have raloxifene, then take tamoxifen .

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnabolicDoc View Post
    I didn't see how that will get rid of your gyno. Try an AI at full dose and raloxifene at 60mg per day. If you don't have raloxifene, then take tamoxifen.
    Thanks Doc. I brought hCG up because of my low testosterone . I'm hearing from colleagues that I should just do a PCT which can include hCG. In regards, to my gyno what would a full dose be for Aromasin ? I haven't tried Raloxifene. I was trying Nolvadex before. Do you recommend Raloxifene over Nolva? I have some Nolva and Aromasin still sitting in my bathroom. This stuff ever go bad?

    Thanks Doc,
    R

  24. #24
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    yeah you have to fix the Gyno first. i was thinking about testosterone levels . didnt pay attention to gyno.
    good luck

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    Take Aromasin 25mg daily and Nolvadex 20mg one to two times per day - probably twice per day. But it's possible that all the gyno may not regress and that you may need plastic surgery to remove the breast tissue. Take the above for at least two weeks and taper once the gyno resolves. Then you can think about PCT if you need it.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnabolicDoc View Post
    Take Aromasin 25mg daily and Nolvadex 20mg one to two times per day - probably twice per day. But it's possible that all the gyno may not regress and that you may need plastic surgery to remove the breast tissue. Take the above for at least two weeks and taper once the gyno resolves. Then you can think about PCT if you need it.
    Mmmm I'm not sure how I feel about this and here's why. I first began a PCT after my cycle. And then once again when I noticed the onset of Gyno. So basically what you're advising me, I've already done. Below are the details

    RECAP

    July 15th, 2012 - End of 9 Weeks of Winny/EQ.

    July 25th 2012 - The PCT (10 days after cycle)
    You'll find my other post about headaches in the forums. Received a lot of hits. Turns out it was just an incredible amount of water retention causing my brain to swell against my skull that was causing the headaches. The Nolva and Clomid were just further irritating the headaches.

    PCT lasted for 3 weeks and I just quit because I thought the headaches were caused solely by Nolva and/or Clomid.

    October 6th, 2012 - First noticed signs of Gyno
    It began with my right nipple... sensitive nipple. Nothing noticeable... but almost overnight poofiness came... and a hard marble sized piece of tissue appeared behind nipple. So I came to our glorious forums for help and guidance. Got all kinds of crazy tips and advice. So here's what I ended up doing

    October 10th, 2012 - The Gyno Reversal Attempt #1
    4 weeks reversal attempt:
    Aromasin 25/25/10/10 ED
    Nolvadex 40/40/40/40 ED

    Day 7 of Gyno Reversal Attempt
    It seems to be working. Sensitivity subsiding

    Day 12
    progress seems to be slowing down. Lump is under control but not going away

    Day 19
    Not bothering me as much anymore. But still hard to tell if progress is being made

    Day 21
    Progress seems to be reversing. Poofiness returns. Shoulder joint pain intensifies

    November 11, 2012 - End of Gyno Reversal Attempt #1
    It's definitely better. But it's not the same. There's still kind of tissue build up behind the nipple and it feels like the nipple is always hard

    January 3rd, 2013 - The Return of Gyno
    All of a sudden... both nipples are poofy! WTF? I had no issues with my left nipple until just 2 days ago. I noticed both nipples now have marble sized hard tissue behind them with poofyness.
    Last edited by RustedIron; 02-08-2013 at 06:02 PM.

  27. #27
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    In your EQ/winny cycle did you use testosterone as well?

    I think you're saying the regimen you tried worked. Maybe you just needed to stay on it longer or tapered too quickly.

    I would try it again (get Evista/raloxifene while starting with Nolva) and if possible acquire some topical DHT and apply to affected area.

    That's the best I have to offer. Sorry I can't be of more help.

    I seriously doubt you have it, but one thing to consider is the possibility of breast cancer (yes, It can happen to men). It's very uncommon, especially bilaterally, but it may be something you want to have ruled out. Maybe you should consider seeing a doctor not just to rule it out but also to get rid of your gyno. I would stary with an endocrinologist (preferably one that practices pediatric endocrinology as well - they might have more experience with gyno and often I find the pediatric endos are better than others. Could just be my experience though)

    Good luck. Consider trying the regimen I posted previously or the one you already did that worked for you. Also, think about going to the doctor.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnabolicDoc View Post
    In your EQ/winny cycle did you use testosterone as well?

    I think you're saying the regimen you tried worked. Maybe you just needed to stay on it longer or tapered too quickly.

    I would try it again (get Evista/raloxifene while starting with Nolva) and if possible acquire some topical DHT and apply to affected area.

    That's the best I have to offer. Sorry I can't be of more help.

    I seriously doubt you have it, but one thing to consider is the possibility of breast cancer (yes, It can happen to men). It's very uncommon, especially bilaterally, but it may be something you want to have ruled out. Maybe you should consider seeing a doctor not just to rule it out but also to get rid of your gyno. I would stary with an endocrinologist (preferably one that practices pediatric endocrinology as well - they might have more experience with gyno and often I find the pediatric endos are better than others. Could just be my experience though)

    Good luck. Consider trying the regimen I posted previously or the one you already did that worked for you. Also, think about going to the doctor.
    Thanks for the response Doc,

    I did not use testosterone in my cycle. Yes it seemed the Nolva/Aroma was working...but didn't do the job. Maybe I didn't do it long enough like you said. I can't get DHT...not unless a doc prescribes it to me. I do have low testosterone . Are you also saying I should do Reloxifene in addition to Nolva and Aromasin ? All 3?

    You've been a great help so far doc. Good to have you around! Thanks for scaring me with breast cancer. Maybe I should see a doc...sheesh.

    -R

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustedIron View Post

    Thanks for the response Doc,

    I did not use testosterone in my cycle. Yes it seemed the Nolva/Aroma was working...but didn't do the job. Maybe I didn't do it long enough like you said. I can't get DHT...not unless a doc prescribes it to me. I do have low testosterone . Are you also saying I should do Reloxifene in addition to Nolva and Aromasin ? All 3?

    You've been a great help so far doc. Good to have you around! Thanks for scaring me with breast cancer. Maybe I should see a doc...sheesh.

    -R
    Sorry about the breast cancer reference but I feel obligated to be forthcoming. I did say that it's highly highly unlikely but just something that you may want to rule out to be thorough.

    I just reread this thread and realized something new - that this occurred 6 months after the end of your cycle (I must have forgotten about that). I think it's time you see a doctor. It's not that I don't think you can manage to take care of this on your own but being that your gyno is probably unrelated to your cycle, as there was a 6 month delay, there are some potential causes of your gyno that you need a doctor to evaluate you for.

    For instance what if you have a elevated prolactin levels (possibly from a prolactinoma) causing the gyno. In that case you would need either cabergoline, pramipexole, or bromocriptine to treat your gyno as they lower prolactin levels. Some ppl on other forms claim to have had success using them against gyno along with an AI and a SERM although I think many of those cases were due to a 19 nor progesterone AAS (such as Tren or Deca ).

    If you're going to handle this on your own you should take either the raloxifene or Nolva (tamoxifen ). If you have Nolva, start with that and the Aromasin. If you're not improving then switch from Nolva to raloxifene as some studies say it may work better for gyno. If raloxifene and aromasin aren't working then switch the aromasin to letro, but I think letro should be a last resort. Also don't abruptly stop either the Nolva or the aromasin. They need to be tapered in cases of gyno to prevent rebound. But we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

    I liked the advice in the post that I cut and pasted. I think there was a lot of good info there. The dht cream sounds like a great addition to a treatment regimen for gyno. I understand that its undesirable to order it from overseas. I'm not sure that there is prescription dht cream available in the US, maybe through a compounding pharmacy.

    Please keep me posted and I will do my best to help you along the way no matter what approach you take. Best of luck to you.

  30. #30
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    If your lumps are hard and fibrous then I'd doubt any amount of serms will help, quite honestly. I believe Dr. Crisler at all things male .com does advanced gyno surgery now if you can travel.

    Gread advice from the Doc as always...

  31. #31
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    Thanks kel.

    OP, here is the thread where I cut and pasted someone else's great info on gyno:

    http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...o#.URhqfqNOnFo

  32. #32
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    Guys, you think I could have leukemia due to the low neutrophils, high lymphs, and high monocytes?

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustedIron View Post
    Guys, you think I could have leukemia due to the low neutrophils, high lymphs, and high monocytes?
    No, those are percentages that you listed in your OP and they are barely off, which is so so common. More importantly, if you're worried about leukemia/lymphoma, what was your total wbc (white blood cell count)? Generally over 30 (some say 20) prompts an investigation but this is not a hard and fast rule.

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    Ok that's a relief. I scheduled a doctor's appointment for Thursday anyways. Also having some uncomfortable heart issues... so going to get an EKG done. Amazing what happens when you don't stack with testosterone in your cycle.

    This must be using a different unit, but the WBC was 5.8x10E3/uL... I'm guessing that equates to 58 from what you're saying? The reference interval was 4.0-10.5x10E3/uL... so I'm right smack in the middle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RustedIron View Post
    Ok that's a relief. I scheduled a doctor's appointment for Thursday anyways. Also having some uncomfortable heart issues... so going to get an EKG done. Amazing what happens when you don't stack with testosterone in your cycle.

    This must be using a different unit, but the WBC was 5.8x10E3/uL... I'm guessing that equates to 58 from what you're saying? The reference interval was 4.0-10.5x10E3/uL... so I'm right smack in the middle.
    Your wbc count and profile is normal.

    5.8 actually equates to 5,800. But when I said anything over 30 prompts an investigation into l uhh lymphoma/leukemia - I meant 30,000. It's just wbc is usually presented as a single digit (when normal) with the units as "x10^3" as was done in your case.
    Last edited by AnabolicDoc; 02-12-2013 at 09:22 AM.

  36. #36
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    QUICK UPDATE: I went to the doctor and told her about my AAS use and the gyno. She felt it and didn't seemed like it was anything to be concerned about. She said come back in a couple of months and we'll see. Just need to let your body get back to equilibrium she said.

    In regards to blood test, she said the only thing on there that concerned her were the ALT and AST levels, but even then, they were only high enough to be indicative of heavy drink or such. So since I don't drink I'm not sure what's going on there. High AST/ALT levels indicate liver damage for those of you who don't know.

    She recommended ultrasound of liver. I'll keep everyone apprised

  37. #37
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    Your ast and alt are so mildly elevated it could be from a dose of Tylenol

  38. #38
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    UPDATE: Got some more blood work done and my AST and ALT levels have returned to normal. 28 and 26. I also had a hepatitis panel done and that came back negative so no hepatitis.

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