PCT question

[cj111]

The HCG I have for post cycle I was going to run at 500iu eod,( I only have 5000iu). Would it be worth while to start running it sooner at 250iu eod ?

Thanks

[MickeyKnox]

Why HCG is So Important

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread....#.UIlhVWfX_ft

[cj111]

Ya I've read it, am wondering if theres any advantage to starting sooner at a lower dose

[MickeyKnox]

Ya I've read it, am wondering if theres any advantage to starting sooner at a lower dose

Post cycle? hCG should be used on cycle to prevent testicular atrophy.

[cj111]

I haven't been running it during my cycle, am saving it for after my last pin. Am wondering if there's any use starting sooner at a lower dose?

[Bio-Active]

I haven't been running it during my cycle, am saving it for after my last pin. Am wondering if there's any use starting sooner at a lower dose?

That is going to keep you lh suppressed and it will still need to recover after you discontinue hcg . It's best to run hcg on cycle and run Clomid nolvadex for pct

[MickeyKnox]

I haven't been running it during my cycle, am saving it for after my last pin. Am wondering if there's any use starting sooner at a lower dose?

Original author - Swifto


HCG - How important is it?

When our HPTA's are "shutdown" we have to distinguish between short-term inhibition and long-term dysfunction.

Short-term inhibition of testosterone production comes primarily from negative feedback at the pituitary and hypothalamus, which reduces LH output. This could be described as a reduction in the signal to produce testosterone. This LH suppression recovers quickly.

However, with time, it leads to testicular dysfunction. Without LH from the pituitary, the testes atrophy from disuse. This testicular dysfunction could be described as a reduction in the responsiveness to a signal to produce testosterone.

The hypothalamus and pituitary seem to recover fairly quickly following the use of androgens. GnRH, LH and FSH rise fairly quickly post cycle , but endogenous testosterone levels don’t. As confirmed by William Llewellyn. It shows that LH levels rise fairly quickly (on the 3rd week) after Testosterone Enanthate injections of 250mg weekly for 21 weeks. So it seems the hypothalamus and pituitaries are not the problem in restarting endogenous testosterone production post cycle.

After recent correspondence with Dr.Crisler (Swale) he confirmed gonadotropin levels were not to blame in restarting the HPTA. So what is?

If LH levels rise post cycle (the majority of the time) the reason why endogenous testosterone levels DONT rise, is the testes. Or testicular dysfunction. Testicular dysfunction is when the testes become atrophied from disuse or desensitized to gonadotropin, such as LH. This could also be described as being the onset of primary hypogonadism.

Primary hypogonadism is when the testes no longer respond to LH. The testes have a lowered sperm concentration/production and endogenous testosterone level, although LH and FSH are above normal levels. This can be due to disease (Klinefelter's syndrome), over use of anabolic steroids . The simple answer to primary hypogonadism is HRT.

So if the testes (testicular dysfunction) are the main culprit in restoring testosterone production post cycle how can we maintain testicular function and endogenous testosterone production even when "shutdown" using androgens? Simple - HCG .

HCG has the ability to maintain endogenous testosterone production and ITT (Intra-Testicular Testosterone) by stimulating the testes (directly) even when shutdown from androgens, such as Testosterone Enanthate .

HCG is VERY important in cycles IMHO. It prevents the main reason the HPTA doesn’t recover immediately post cycle - testicular dysfunction. It should be a staple of EVERY cycle causing shutdown IMHO.

”I suggest HCG be used at 125-250ius 2-3 times weekly with an AI throughout the cycle lasting 6-12 weeks. This will maintain testicular size and function and prevent testicular dysfunction. It should also be noted that administering over "500ius will cause an increase in estrogen and progesterone, further hindering recovery” - Dr. John Crisler.

[cj111]

Yes on cycle would have been better, but I didn't go that route, I've read the stickies man I'm just trying to sort out the best plan of action from here..any input is appreciated

[MickeyKnox]

Where are you in your cycle?

[cj111]

2.5 weeks left

[MickeyKnox]

You may be able to do a blast. If i were you i would do 250iu EOD until a few days before i began PCT.

Actually, personally i would even consider extending my cycle one wk to get another wk out of my hCG . I honestly believe that avoiding testicular atrophy is very important and provides a seamless transition from on-cycle to PCT.

[cj111]

So you figure run the cycle another week and start the HCG at 250iu sooner instead of running 500iu after the last pin ?
If shit hits the fan and my nuts don't come back to normal, will def run hcg during next cycle. They haven't even shrank much at all I was pretty surprised, and still shootin loads like im peter north.

[MickeyKnox]

I would begin now. But if youre not suffering that much from testicular atrophy, you definitely wont need the extra wk. Monitor yourself while blasting.

[cj111]

Start taking it in the next few days, thanks for clearing that up.

[cj111]

Hey Mickey, am going to start running that HCG today.
Should I run it on the same days I pin, or alternate.
I pin eod

[OdinsOtherSon]

Ideally you should administer hcg 24 hrs before pinning but in your case just getting it in is the main thing at this point.

[cj111]

So it would be best to do it on off days? HCG 1 day pin the next kinda thing

[OdinsOtherSon]

Hey Mickey, am going to start running that HCG today.
Should I run it on the same days I pin, or alternate.
I pin eod

I assume you're running prop?

Either way, hcg the day before test is ideal. If for whatever reason you can't follow that schedule, then like I said in previous post...in your particular circumstance where you've failed to incorporate hcg since inception of the cycle, you just need to get it in even if that means the day of pinning test or the day after. But yes, to specifically answer your question....hcg administration the day before test is considered the best protocol. If you're running prop and pinning eod, then just pick two days that are 3.5 days apart between test pin and administer 250iu on those days.

[MickeyKnox]

Start taking it in the next few days, thanks for clearing that up.

Why did you not begin administering hCG on the 19th like i had suggested? That would have given you an extra wk almost.

I assume you're running prop?

Either way, hcg the day before test is ideal. If for whatever reason you can't follow that schedule, then like I said in previous post...in your particular circumstance where you've failed to incorporate hcg since inception of the cycle, you just need to get it in even if that means the day of pinning test or the day after. But yes, to specifically answer your question....hcg administration the day before test is considered the best protocol. If you're running prop and pinning eod, then just pick two days that are 3.5 days apart between test pin and administer 250iu on those days.

This ^^.

[cj111]

then just pick two days that are 3.5 days apart between test pin and administer 250iu on those days.

If i were you i would do 250iu EOD until a few days before i began PCT.

So what is it, eod or every 3.5 days?

[OdinsOtherSon]

So what is it, eod or every 3.5 days?

Given that you're 2.5 weeks from end of cycle, I'd go with Mickey's advice and run EOD up to 4 days before PCT.

[MickeyKnox]

So what is it, eod or every 3.5 days?

I believe OOS was giving you the on cycle protocol (E3.5D) as a friendly reminder and i agreed.

But given your situation, EOD up to a few days before PCT is what i recommend.

[cj111]

About 11 days from last shot, right on so EOD, thanks

[OdinsOtherSon]

I'd get started ASAP, IMO!

[tigerspawn]

Bump