AI's in PCT? Rebound effekt?

[emp]

Hey!
my very first own post in this forum, so please go easy on me

now ive read a lot these last couple of days, and compared to the other forums i read(national and european), u guys really like to use AI's during PCT. more so than us europeans at least...

ive always been tought that u should use AI's during cycle and up until u start the PCT. then use sERM's only, as its more effective on ur HPTA Inhibition recovery. u wont need AI's, cause ur hormone levels will be low enough for u to start PCT, and low enough to NOT aromatize into estrogen. now it makes me wonder, why would u then, inhibit something that isnt there to be inhibited in the first place? and is there a possible rebound effect, which can make ur estrogen levels skyrocket after u cut the AI?

im merely brainstorming a bit, and havent been able to answer these questions. why do u want to use an AI during PCT? i would get that u would maybe use clomid and nolva(both sERMs), since they are both great for getting ur body functional again, they work somewhat different and combine well, and that nolva, especially, will hinder the leftover estrogen from binding to the estrogen receptors(so no new gyno will be a problem). but i dont see how it is necessary to use AI's. i rather see it as a bad thing. as it might supress too much estrogen, and u can get sides from having too low estrogen levels instead.

can someone point me in the right direction, as to where i can read more about the possible rebound effects u can encounter from using different AI's? when will it rebound? how much can rebound? is there some way of making sure u wont get a rebound effect? if u supress estrogen from ever being converted, how can u with low testosterone levels(or any other aromatizing AAS), get a rebound effect of estrogen?

feel free to guide me where i can read about the matter, or lecture me. im simply curious and eager to learn.
if ive misunderstood anything or isnt being clear somewhere, tell me

thx ppl!

[redz]

I dont run an ai during pct. Only on cycle.

[emp]

I dont run an ai during pct. Only on cycle.

hehe, im sorry if it sounded like i stereotyped all of u in this forum. my bad. i didnt necessarily mean that all of u users in here, like to. its more the sticky's and on profiles and such.

[Far from massive]

emp,

I am no expert on PCT but I agree with you Redz AI's are for control of estrogen due to aromatization on cycle not for use in PCT.

I think you will find that most knowlegable members here share this philosphy, not sure about the US in general but most on this board feel AI/HCG should be used on cycle, not during PCT.

PS No offence taken in regard to the boards views, much better to ask than to keep quiet.

[MickeyKnox]

Hey!
my very first own post in this forum, so please go easy on me

now ive read a lot these last couple of days, and compared to the other forums i read(national and european), u guys really like to use AI's during PCT. more so than us europeans at least...

ive always been tought that u should use AI's during cycle and up until u start the PCT. then use sERM's only, as its more effective on ur HPTA Inhibition recovery. u wont need AI's, cause ur hormone levels will be low enough for u to start PCT, and low enough to NOT aromatize into estrogen. now it makes me wonder, why would u then, inhibit something that isnt there to be inhibited in the first place? and is there a possible rebound effect, which can make ur estrogen levels skyrocket after u cut the AI?

im merely brainstorming a bit, and havent been able to answer these questions. why do u want to use an AI during PCT? i would get that u would maybe use clomid and nolva(both sERMs), since they are both great for getting ur body functional again, they work somewhat different and combine well, and that nolva, especially, will hinder the leftover estrogen from binding to the estrogen receptors(so no new gyno will be a problem). but i dont see how it is necessary to use AI's. i rather see it as a bad thing. as it might supress too much estrogen, and u can get sides from having too low estrogen levels instead.

can someone point me in the right direction, as to where i can read more about the possible rebound effects u can encounter from using different AI's? when will it rebound? how much can rebound? is there some way of making sure u wont get a rebound effect? if u supress estrogen from ever being converted, how can u with low testosterone levels(or any other aromatizing AAS), get a rebound effect of estrogen?

feel free to guide me where i can read about the matter, or lecture me. im simply curious and eager to learn.
if ive misunderstood anything or isnt being clear somewhere, tell me

thx ppl!

Wut?


Why It's Important To Run An AI

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...o#.UMPClazX_ft

SERM, AI Definition

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...-AI-Definition

Estrogen Control, Treatment, and PCT

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...t#.UJSEImfX_fs

Progesterone/Prolactin Induced Gyno

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...a#.UI2UgmfX_fs

Why HCG is So Important

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread....#.UIlhVWfX_ft

[emp]

yeah, i see i have stepped on some toes here...my bad. at least i got some attention. i do however, see i missed out when i said u guys liked using it during PCT. i didnt mention that u ofc(!) also use it during cycle. it just seemed u like to include it in ur PCT aswell, not stop before.

well, then things are more "back to normal", and im glad. it just makes more sense...

BUT, i would still like to learn more about rebound effect, and how u might control it/avoid it. cause, isnt rebound effects from using AI's vital, at least to some extent?

so if anyone have a good article on rebound effect or a good thread, please share

[MickeyKnox]

yeah, i see i have stepped on some toes here...my bad. at least i got some attention. i do however, see i missed out when i said u guys liked using it during PCT. i didnt mention that u ofc(!) also use it during cycle. it just seemed u like to include it in ur PCT aswell, not stop before.

well, then things are more "back to normal", and im glad. it just makes more sense...

BUT, i would still like to learn more about rebound effect, and how u might control it/avoid it. cause, isnt rebound effects from using AI's vital, at least to some extent?

so if anyone have a good article on rebound effect or a good thread, please share

I don't think you've stepped on anybody's toes. I'm just surprised that you feel this site promotes AI's during PCT? Where did you find this information? Perhaps its outdated, so if you have a link it would be very helpful.

[jimmyinkedup]

yeah, i see i have stepped on some toes here...my bad. at least i got some attention. i do however, see i missed out when i said u guys liked using it during PCT. i didnt mention that u ofc(!) also use it during cycle. it just seemed u like to include it in ur PCT aswell, not stop before.

well, then things are more "back to normal", and im glad. it just makes more sense...

BUT, i would still like to learn more about rebound effect, and how u might control it/avoid it. cause, isnt rebound effects from using AI's vital, at least to some extent?

so if anyone have a good article on rebound effect or a good thread, please share

type 2 ai's like letro and dex can have estrogen rebound because the simply block the site on the aromatase enzyme where it binds to test to convert it to estrogen WHILE the compound is active. Once the type 2 ai wears off - that aromatase becomes active and available again. This increase of now available aromatase causes an increase in estrogen.
Type 1 Ai's like exemestane bind to the same site on the aromatase enzyme but render it permanently inactive So when A type 1 ai wears off there is no "spike" or "rebound" in the way of increased estrogen,

[emp]

type 2 ai's like letro and dex can have estrogen rebound because the simply block the site on the aromatase enzyme where it binds to test to convert it to estrogen WHILE the compound is active. Once the type 2 ai wears off - that aromatase becomes active and available again. This increase of now available aromatase causes an increase in estrogen.
Type 1 Ai's like exemestane bind to the same site on the aromatase enzyme but render it permanently inactive So when A type 1 ai wears off there is no "spike" or "rebound" in the way of increased estrogen,

thx! that helped a lot. maybe thats why aromasin(type I) is recommended to use during PCT? since it has no rebound effect...aha

and mickeyknox, ill try to find some tomorrow, way past my bed time over here...
but even in the one u linked me to, wardudeguy, recommended aromasin during PCT. and in another link u posted, it states that aromasin infact is an aromatase inhibitor(which we all know ofc). BUT now that u guys cleard up the fact that u actually dont use AI's because of their rebound effect during PCT , i can see why some would recommend aro in PCT, since it doesnt have estrogen rebound. but then again, is it necessary? i mean, u dont want the levels to be too low either...

say u use aro during ur cycle, and u go straight from there to nolva when starting ur PCT. there really wouldnt be any reason why u should keep on using aromasin? it wont have a rebound effect on the estrogen, AND ur body wants to stabalize, which in my opinion sounds like u should not do anything to "control" the estrogen in the body. and u shouldnt start pct if ur hormonlevels are too high anyways, making newly converted estrogen to NOT be a problem.

as im thinking out loud here, i realize i might have misunderstood something. when aromasin is recommended for PCT, is that when u have not used any aro/AI's in general during ur cycle? cause i can see how u would want to use an AI during ur PCT if u havent done so on cycle(no idea why u would choose that route tho..).

ah fuark it, im tired...probably thinking out of my ass.

thx tho! u did manage to sort some of my questions

gnite

[MickeyKnox]

EVERYTHING you just mentioned is contained and discussed in those links i provided for you.

Have a good night.

[RB3232]

EVERYTHING you just mentioned is contained and discussed in those links i provided for you.

Have a good night.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...)#.UTdZOhyG18E

This link talks about using an AI on PCT

[MickeyKnox]

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...)#.UTdZOhyG18E

This link talks about using an AI on PCT

Did you conveniently skip over this part because you only want to read what suits your agenda?

"*AI's are not always needed, especially if one has been used to control estrogen (aromatse activity) during the cycle. There is a high risk of lowering estrogen too low and that can bring its own side effects; Lowered labido, aching joints, poor cholesterol and can negatively effect the immune system. We need some estrogen, not alot, not zero, but one cannot afford a too low an estrogen level at this time of PCT."

[RB3232]

Then why would he suggest it in his PCT outline listed below that?

[MickeyKnox]

Then why would he suggest it in his PCT outline listed below that?

The article is from 2008, and since that time medical and clinical data has emerged and widely supports the omission of AI's during PCT. The key reason being that an AI during PCT will reduce your Estrogen to unhealthy levels.

But keep in m ind Swifto did cover this with his statement, " AI's are not always needed, especially if one was used on cycle." He was on the right path.

[tigerspawn]

Bump

[Enfermo]

Interesting. Glad I found this place.