PCT Advice needed!

[Wizwell]

I am currently on an HRT protocol 400mg test e once per month. I would like to supplement by running another 250mg test e each of the other three weeks. I'm also considering 100mg of deca each week with this. I would do this for eight weeks then return to my once per month protocol. My question, I only have Fermera ( Letrozole ) as my anti E. Do I really need Nolvadex if I run Letro during and post cycle? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

To be more specific, I have Letrozole 2.5mg. I was going to cut them into quarters taking .6mg every other day. I hear Letro is quite strong and only low dosages are needed.

[Back In Black]

You should really post this in our HRT section.

Your protocol needs changing and your test levels stabilised and dialled in before you even consider a cycle on top of your TRT.

Good luck.

[Wizwell]

Protocol needs changing??? My doc says my test levels are good after a blood test while on injections. I don't know my numbers though. My T levels were on the low side of normal and I began the HRT after my urging.

[Back In Black]

Protocol needs changing??? My doc says my test levels are good after a blood test while on injections. I don't know my numbers though. My T levels were on the low side of normal and I began the HRT after my urging.

You need stable blood levels. I doubt your readings are the same the day of your shot as they are the week after. Most guys are pinning 2x per week for stability.

Our HRT experts no more about this than most Dr's (honestly ) you would be wise to utilise their expertise.

[Wizwell]

Actually, I agree. I tried to get my doctor to let me do self injections. a.k.a., I could pin twice per week. He would have no part of it though. And...I certainly don't want to pay for two office visits per month. That's why I was thinking of pinning every week, or every other week with test e. Considering running deca 100mg per week also. I would like to know if Nolvadex following Letro would be necessary? I could go off all, after my PCT, by asking my doctor to switch to androgel. I hate to give up the injections for androgel though. But, it's the only way I could go totally clean and keep my prescription. I'm pretty sure he'd let me switch back again later. I may take another try at convincing him to let me pin myself. That would be ideal. I'm getting too lengthy here. I really appreciate the help. Is Nolvadex needed??? I have a feeling the answer is yes. Also, is the liquid Ar-r version worth trying?

[MuscleInk]

Actually, I agree. I tried to get my doctor to let me do self injections. a.k.a., I could pin twice per week. He would have no part of it though. And...I certainly don't want to pay for two office visits per month. That's why I was thinking of pinning every week, or every other week with test e. Considering running deca 100mg per week also. I would like to know if Nolvadex following Letro would be necessary? I could go off all, after my PCT, by asking my doctor to switch to androgel. I hate to give up the injections for androgel though. But, it's the only way I could go totally clean and keep my prescription. I'm pretty sure he'd let me switch back again later. I may take another try at convincing him to let me pin myself. That would be ideal. I'm getting too lengthy here. I really appreciate the help. Is Nolvadex needed??? I have a feeling the answer is yes. Also, is the liquid Ar-r version worth trying?

A couple thoughts here.

Many (certainly not all) docs won't let patients self administer for liability reasons. If an infection or pocketed abscess occurs or the drug is abused (i.e. patient uses more than prescribed) there is a risk the care provider could be held liable. The concern is greater when compounds are injectable vs. topical/transdermal.

If you are going to run a cycle, I'd be cautious about continuing your TRT. If your doc happens to check your blood levels during your cycle and they are elevated above upper normal limits, he/she is likely to discontinue your TRT. Save your TRT if you can for off cycles.

Can you lay out your full cycle plan along with your intended AI management? It's a little confusing in your post.

MuscleInk

[Wizwell]

Actually, I'm still undecided. But, was leaning toward the following:
8 weeks - 400mg test e ( my trt injection ) EOW. 250mg test e ( my self injection ) EOW. Thus, getting a test injection twice per month as opposed to the once I receive now. Also considering running 100mg of Deca every week. That's still undecided. I have the test e and femara 2.5mg. I was going to cut the 2.5 tabs into quarters and take a quarter EOD through the cycle. I could continue this for a couple of weeks, after week 8, if that was sufficient. Or, should Nolvadex be used? I also am under informed on HCG. I think these doseages are low enough to avoid that though. Or, am I wrong?

[kelkel]

#1. Exactly what the above guys said.
#2. Your doctor is a retard and does not understand one thing about hormones. Consider the half-life of test is app 5-7 days metabolism dependent. He's taking you to supraphysiologic levels with that ridiculous dose then letting it go for a month with no regard to how you feel or what it does to you. I do not understand why some docs are so cavalier when it comes to testosterone. I hope they are not that way will all medications. It's borderline mispheasance, IMHO.
#3. You need to find a good doc to get stable with a protocol first before you consider adding to it. Take a look at the banner on this site for www.lowtestosterone.com and read up on what they offer.
#4. Nolvadex is a SERM, not an AI.
#5. Like said above, visit the HRT forum and read up. Specifically read the sticky threads. Ton's of info await you there.

Welcome to the site.

[MuscleInk]

Actually, I'm still undecided. But, was leaning toward the following:
8 weeks - 400mg test e ( my trt injection ) EOW. 250mg test e ( my self injection ) EOW. Thus, getting a test injection twice per month as opposed to the once I receive now. Also considering running 100mg of Deca every week. That's still undecided. I have the test e and femara 2.5mg. I was going to cut the 2.5 tabs into quarters and take a quarter EOD through the cycle. I could continue this for a couple of weeks, after week 8, if that was sufficient. Or, should Nolvadex be used? I also am under informed on HCG. I think these doseages are low enough to avoid that though. Or, am I wrong?

Well, the test dose is on the low side if its EOW, especially if your plan is 8 wks. I wouldn't recommend letro*ole, its fairly harsh and I often only prescribe it for gyno treatment along with tamoxifen (outside of breast cancer applications). Anastro*ole or aromasin would be better choices an the actual dose will really depend in the level of aromati*ation in YOUR body.

How long have you been on TRT? Personally, I'd stay on TRT for now and get your doses dialed in to achieve a steady baseline of testosterone. Once you've been on TRT for a couple months, that may be the time to start a proper cycle, provided your nutrition, training, and body fat are appropriate.

MuscleInk

[Wizwell]

I do know the Nolvadex is a SERM. I was asking if I should use it post cycle. Or, if the Letro would be sufficient. I do wish it was that easy to find a doc to let me self inject. Giving myself the test E two weeks from the office injection would be my attempt at stabilizing my levels. I actually don't feel bad with this protocol. My libido goes down weeks three and four though. I was looking to go off completely for 3 or 4 months post cycle. Would I be better off switching to androgel and possibly running Deca with it for a cycle? I had good results, starting the TRT, adding strength and size but have now plateaued. I've been on TRT for six months.
Also...how do I access a sticky?????
Your help is much appreciated.

[Wizwell]

Well, the test dose is on the low side if its EOW, especially if your plan is 8 wks. I wouldn't recommend letro*ole, its fairly harsh and I often only prescribe it for gyno treatment along with tamoxifen (outside of breast cancer applications). Anastro*ole or aromasin would be better choices an the actual dose will really depend in the level of aromati*ation in YOUR body.

How long have you been on TRT? Personally, I'd stay on TRT for now and get your doses dialed in to achieve a steady baseline of testosterone. Once you've been on TRT for a couple months, that may be the time to start a proper cycle, provided your nutrition, training, and body fat are appropriate.

MuscleInk

Six months. It would be hard to stabilize unless I self inject two weeks from the doc's injection. Would Androgel be a better option for stabilization???
I train four days per week hitting each muscle group once per week. Usually, 8-10 sets per muscle group. I'm pretty knowledgeable nutrition wise. Above average for sure. An educated guess would be 15% body fat.

[MuscleInk]

I do know the Nolvadex is a SERM. I was asking if I should use it post cycle. Or, if the Letro would be sufficient. I do wish it was that easy to find a doc to let me self inject. Giving myself the test E two weeks from the office injection would be my attempt at stabilizing my levels. I actually don't feel bad with this protocol. My libido goes down weeks three and four though. I was looking to go off completely for 3 or 4 months post cycle. Would I be better off switching to androgel and possibly running Deca with it for a cycle? I had good results, starting the TRT, adding strength and size but have now plateaued. I've been on TRT for six months.
Also...how do I access a sticky?????
Your help is much appreciated.

If you're on TRT, why the need for PCT??? Guys who need TRT are usually on TRT for lifetime. PCT is more common at the end of a cycle for suppressing estrogen receptor binding, inducing spermatogenesis and recovering from HTPA suppression. TRT candidates don't follow a PCT because a PCT isn't going to restore their circulating testosterone to normal levels since the TRT was needed to achieve normal levels.

I'm still opposed to this plan. The testosterone dosing isn't enough for a proper cycle and it sounds like you are intending to use your TRT as an actual cycle when it isn't.

If you truly want to run a proper cycle and follow a "blast-cruise" method, you need to obtain the proper supplies and conduct a proper cycle. Your TRT isn't enough and should not be abused this way.

MuscleInk

[Wizwell]

If you're on TRT, why the need for PCT??? Guys who need TRT are usually on TRT for lifetime. PCT is more common at the end of a cycle for suppressing estrogen receptor binding, inducing spermatogenesis and recovering from HTPA suppression. TRT candidates don't follow a PCT because a PCT isn't going to restore their circulating testosterone to normal levels since the TRT was needed to achieve normal levels.

I'm still opposed to this plan. The testosterone dosing isn't enough for a proper cycle and it sounds like you are intending to use your TRT as an actual cycle when it isn't.

If you truly want to run a proper cycle and follow a "blast-cruise" method, you need to obtain the proper supplies and conduct a proper cycle. Your TRT isn't enough and should not be abused this way.

MuscleInk

My levels were supposedly on the low side of normal. Unfortunately, I am getting up there chronologically. It was my urging that got the TRT started. I wouldn't need PCT if I stayed on the TRT monthly. I was hoping to take a break and get off completely. I would then have my levels rechecked. If there is actually such a thing as steroid bounce, according to the late Dan Duchaine, your body produces more testosterone after cycling. I was hoping to achieve higher levels naturally afterwards. Not sure if I spelled Duchaine correctly.
What would be a more proper cycle?

[kelkel]

To me it kind of sounds like you may have started TRT too early and you have second thoughts. Otherwise there is no real need to come off. So, if you can come off and restore normal T levels that would be a wonderful thing.

Steroid bounce? Dan is probably just referring to when you restart your HPTA with pct. And is does not slam into high gear all at once. The extent it returns to normal is unknown until you try. And Dan's been dead a long time now. He was a groundbreaker for sure but science has grown by leaps and bounds since his demise.

Search Suggested Cycles for Beginners by MickeyKnox. He breaks it down really well in his thread and explains it, step by step. You'll like it.

[Wizwell]

To me it kind of sounds like you may have started TRT too early and you have second thoughts. Otherwise there is no real need to come off. So, if you can come off and restore normal T levels that would be a wonderful thing.

Steroid bounce? Dan is probably just referring to when you restart your HPTA with pct. And is does not slam into high gear all at once. The extent it returns to normal is unknown until you try. And Dan's been dead a long time now. He was a groundbreaker for sure but science has grown by leaps and bounds since his demise.

Search Suggested Cycles for Beginners by MickeyKnox. He breaks it down really well in his thread and explains it, step by step. You'll like it.

Much appreciated. I'll do that.

[Wizwell]

Ok. Not sure if I'll get a response now that this is an old thread. Would androgel be a better option for stability as opposed to the once per month injections? Also, if I were using androgel, would that be enough test to run with deca? Finally, I'm also curious how much is too much ( ml wise, not mg wise ) for one injection point? Can 2 ml be used in one quad injection? Or, would I be better off pinning twice?
I realize some of these questions don't really pertain to HRT. My apologies.

[Back In Black]

Ok. Not sure if I'll get a response now that this is an old thread. Would androgel be a better option for stability as opposed to the once per month injections? Also, if I were using androgel, would that be enough test to run with deca? Finally, I'm also curious how much is too much ( ml wise, not mg wise ) for one injection point? Can 2 ml be used in one quad injection? Or, would I be better off pinning twice?
I realize some of these questions don't really pertain to HRT. My apologies.

You really need to post this in the HRT section. You need to get your TRT protocol settled before you even consider a cycle.