Stop Using Aromatase Inhibitors to Reverse gynecomastia! SERM's Only!

**austinite** · 08-19-2013, 12:36 AM

Letrozole is an aromatase inhibitor. One of the most powerful aromatase inhibitors available today. Far too many people are considering this method because many moons ago it was touted as a good tool for reversal. We've learned a lot since then and Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulators (SERM) studies on gynecomastia reversal are readily available for confirmation.

I did a short experiment myself recently when my E2 came back at 46 pg/mL (Range < 29 for a sensitive E2 assay). I did not experience gynecomastia, but I wanted to bring that down back to range. The increase was likely due to switching my Testosterone Therapy administrations from subcutaneous (SubQ) to intramuscular (IM). IM injections have more of an impact on E2 due to faster absorption. This result came about on July 2nd. I had a Letrozole prescription laying around and figured I'd give it a go. It's been so long since I've used Letrozole. My prescription was for 100 microgram capsules.

I administered 100 mcg. (Micrograms) daily. After the 10th day I felt miserable and so I discontinued use. One week after I stopped, I tested E2 again and it came back 2 pg/mL. Remember, this is a full week after Letrozole was discontinued. So it had to be at zero, or "too low to count" for several days. I was bedridden for several days. Completely useless and couldn't find a reason to get up and about. If you've killed your E2 before, you know exactly what I mean. I don't wish this on anyone. Really amazes me that some folks are running this thing using milligram after milligram several times per week. And these "Gynecomastia Reversal" threads using these astronomical doses are just mind boggling. Pretty eye opening once again. Anyway, I waited a while and got back on DIM.

The entire letrozole for gynecomastia reversal came about in 2001 when a study was published. This study was done on mice, not humans. So don't be a mouse, be a man. PMID: 11850204 if you want to look it up.

To give you an example of how low this drug is supposed to be dosed, it was studied in extremely obese hypogonadal men. Overweight men convert far more estrogen than non-overweight men. This is because they carry far more aromatase enzymes. Using Letrozole, these highly aromatizing men were treated with doses of 2mg to 2.5mg once per week. If we break that up, you're looking at about 285 micrograms per day. That's it. This powerful drug never, under any circumstances should be used in a milligram + basis on a daily administered protocol. It is simply outrageous. Reference here.

Let's look at some more recent studies:

Dated: 2011 - Effects of aromatase inhibition on male breast

Tamoxifen was much more effective, however, in the prevention of gynecomastia in these men. Due to these disappointing results, aromatase inhibitors are not recommended as a first-line treatment for gynecomastia in men.

^ Click here for the source of the excerpt above.

Dated: 2004 - Beneficial effects of raloxifene and tamoxifen in the treatment of pubertal gynecomastia

Inhibition of estrogen receptor action in the breast appears to be safe and effective in reducing persistent pubertal gynecomastia, with a better response to raloxifene than to tamoxifen. No side effects were seen in any patients.

^ Click here for the source of the excerpt above.

Dated: 2004 - Management of physiological gynaecomastia with tamoxifen

Thirty-six men accepted tamoxifen for physiological gynaecomastia. They were offered oral tamoxifen 20mg once daily for 6-12 weeks. Oral tamoxifen is an effective treatment for physiological gynaecomastia, especially for the lump type.

^ Click here for the source of the excerpt above.

So we've learned a couple things here. We know that an Aromatase Inhibitor is a poor choice, and we also learned that SERM's are more effective, safer and with no side effects. Lastly, we learned that while Tamoxifen is effective, it is superseded by the superior SERM; Raloxifene.

Aromatase inhibitors are not selective and will demolish your estradiol levels with prolonged use, rendering you miserable and useless. In the case of Letrozole, you could deplete your E2 levels to nothing in no time. SERMs like Tamoxifen and Raloxifene are pure antagonist in the E receptor in breast tissue. This is what mainly makes a SERM the clinically preferred drug for gynecomastia reversal.

TO REVERSE GYNECOMASTIA WITH SERMS:

Raloxifene: 60mg daily. You should see improvement in approx. 4 to 6 weeks. If not increase by 20 mg for every 3 weeks, never to exceed 100mg daily.

Tamoxifen: 40mg daily for once week. Then 20mg daily until gynecomastia is reversed.

Both protocols above will take time. This is not a 2 week process. Reversal will require patience. But it most certainly is effective, side-effect-free and cost incredibly effective when compared to surgery.

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Below is information provided by ********.

I see it all over. I have gyno..how much letro should i take? Jumping on letro to "crush"estrogen to the point that gyno can not survive. The problem is estrogen plays an important role in so many things the idea of simply "crushing"it is far from a prudent one.

This is where serms come in. Serms bind to the estrogen receptor in breast tissue, making it impossible for estrogen to bind and illicit its effects on those receptors. If we are getting gyno, even if using an ai, our estrogen levels are too high. They need to be managed, however with gyno at the door a serm will stop it in its tracks.

I think gyno treatment should be 2 fold , treatment and then management. The treatment and management should occur at the same time using a serm and an AI. The SERM will IMMEDIATELY begin to prevent and treat gyno. The ai will manage estrogen levels lowering them to a proper level where serm therapy may be stopped.

There is a lot of talk about tamoxifen and its effects on pogesterone or how it lowers blood levels of arimidex and letrozole . All that aside (i personally think its over hyped), one can use the serm Raloxifene which puts these fears to rest.

Gyno symptom? Lump etc. Start 60mg ralox/day and up ai dose as current dose was not adequately managing estrogen. When lump goes away cease serm use and continue on with elevated ai doages till end of cycle up to pct.

Thoughts?

Thread source: No More Letro for Gyno!

**austinite** · 08-19-2013, 02:53 AM

oops.

**Buster Brown** · 08-19-2013, 07:50 AM

Agree with the Tamoxifen protocol. Just got the "opportunity" to try it for the first time. It took about three weeks to notice a difference and now there are no sighns of a lump. I was told to be patient with the the tamox. because it takes a while to kick in and not to get impatient. Nice write up, my brother went the route of Letro for gyno he developed on cycle and it totally wiped him out and more or less ruined an otherwise productive cycle.

**jimmyinkedup** · 08-19-2013, 09:41 AM

No More Letro for Gyno!

**austinite** · 08-19-2013, 11:12 AM

^ Sorry jimmy. It was late I guess I forgot about that thread.

**jimmyinkedup** · 08-19-2013, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by austinite

^ Sorry jimmy. It was late I guess I forgot about that thread.

Naah I dont see it that way. The more people that say it, hopefully the more people will take heed and learn from it. The goal is to help people, the more doing it the better buddy.

**Lemonada8** · 08-20-2013, 09:32 AM

Sticky Quality!

Great post!

**kelkel** · 08-20-2013, 09:37 AM

X2. Combine both Jimmy's and Austin's into one sticky.

**Bio-Active** · 08-20-2013, 09:47 AM

As usual awesome info from Austinite and Jimmy!!

**austinite** · 08-21-2013, 11:47 AM

Added jimmy's post/thread to support my post .

**Iron Mind** · 08-27-2013, 01:02 AM

Great read. Very helpful on what to do what developing gyno and what to do about it.

**Java Man** · 08-27-2013, 02:00 AM

Ok now go re-write all those old beginner cycle stickys

**austinite** · 08-27-2013, 02:42 AM

Originally Posted by Java Man

Ok now go re-write all those old beginner cycle stickys

Done: My First Cycle: Planning and Executing a Successful First Cycle

**Java Man** · 08-27-2013, 02:44 AM

Nice. Lol. Fast too!

**lidding** · 08-29-2013, 11:10 PM

Would using clomid in conjunction with aromasin reverse gyno?

**austinite** · 08-30-2013, 12:14 AM

No. Ralox and Nolva focus on breast tissue. Clomid works more in the brain. Aromasin is an AI, not a serm.

**JackedJesse** · 08-30-2013, 02:16 AM

So if I have low T because I didn't do a proper pct a few months ago and Im now getting puffy sensitive nipples, do I have gyno, or can I just go straight to an AI? Thanks

**ppwc1985** · 08-30-2013, 02:44 AM

Nice thread, yes to the sticky, now austinite if you could get those op with problems to actually read it instead of just starting threads that will be something

**Speedslayerr** · 11-20-2013, 12:25 AM

Damn I wish I saw this thread earlier. I just bought liquid Letro and Liquid Ralox. I have some residual gyno from a botched cycle a few months ago, and I was researching here before I bought it, but it seems that I didnt research enough. So only the Ralox for the gyno? Just save the Letro?

**mockery** · 12-30-2013, 02:41 AM

From self testing i have found that high dosages of test with an ai and 60mg daily of The SERM still presented continue growth of the glands, 2 week after last injection the glands and growth have decreased in size at a rapid rate. Even a bigger fibrous growth has become soft and pliable with some size decrease.

**devil-1986** · 02-03-2014, 01:35 PM

ralox can do it the same as arimidex or letro for balancing estrogen level ? and can do it for lowering down estradiol or estrogen level to the safe range ?

**Bio-Active** · 02-03-2014, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by devil-1986

ralox can do it the same as arimidex or letro for balancing estrogen level ? and can do it for lowering down estradiol or estrogen level to the safe range ?

^*^no

**paxman1** · 02-04-2014, 06:29 AM

What are the recommended dosages of Raloxifene for pubertal gyno? 60 mg ED or 30 mg ED?

**Bio-Active** · 02-04-2014, 06:57 AM

Originally Posted by paxman1

What are the recommended dosages of Raloxifene for pubertal gyno? 60 mg ED or 30 mg ED?

How long have you had it. I believe if it has been there long enough you may not be able to reverse it once the tissue has matured

**paxman1** · 02-04-2014, 07:43 AM

I've had it for more than 5 years for sure, maybe even from childhood but I wasn't aware back then. Check my thread please (Letro and nolvadex didn't help for pubertal gyno).

**Tank123** · 02-11-2014, 04:46 AM

hey guys just a lil confused u say not to use ais on cycle yet all cycles and cycles writen before youv said to use adex .25mg eod or aromasin can someone please clear this up thank you

**Bio-Active** · 02-11-2014, 05:11 AM

Originally Posted by Tank123

hey guys just a lil confused u say not to use ais on cycle yet all cycles and cycles writen before youv said to use adex .25mg eod or aromasin can someone please clear this up thank you

I don't think anyone is saying not to use an ai on cycle. You use an ai on cycle and serms for pct

**Tank123** · 02-11-2014, 08:57 PM

ya make sense thanks bro

**devil-1986** · 03-21-2014, 05:12 AM

can tamoxifen increase e-2 levels ?

**Bio-Active** · 03-21-2014, 05:40 AM

Originally Posted by devil-1986

can tamoxifen increase e-2 levels ?

Tamox is a serm it doesn't lower circulating estrogen but competes with the receptor in the mammary glands fighting off gyno. I have never heard of tamox increasing estogen. Its probably just estrogen rebound if anything

**devil-1986** · 03-21-2014, 09:11 AM

Originally Posted by jim230027

Tamox is a serm it doesn't lower circulating estrogen but competes with the receptor in the mammary glands fighting off gyno. I have never heard of tamox increasing estogen. Its probably just estrogen rebound if anything

then what should i do for e2 rebound ? what your suggestion for Prevention of e-2 rebound ?

**redz** · 03-21-2014, 09:42 AM

Letro works but definitely crushes estrogen I can see the benefit of using a serm instead. I've had success with both but felt way better without the letro.

**Bio-Active** · 03-21-2014, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by devil-1986

then what should i do for e2 rebound ? what your suggestion for Prevention of e-2 rebound ?

as long as you are using the serms I wouldn't worry to much about the rebound as your mammary glands should be fine

**Mrharoto** · 03-22-2014, 12:50 AM

Austinite, what would be your take on using torem at 60mg ed do on reversing gyno?

**devil-1986** · 04-04-2014, 10:23 AM

if some one start the cycle with pre existing gyno then should he begin that cycle with both tamoxifen and ai ?

**beetlejuice13** · 05-28-2014, 02:17 PM

So, I have small pee sized lump under my left nipple. I am currently running Test p, and tren ace and masteron ! So I started cycle without any ai because it was late getting to me which I should have waited. anyway now I have been using the Letro gno reversal which ive found on few other sites! So my question is how do I get off the letro cant just stop right? Also, since I do not have Raloxifene on hand should I use adex till I get it?? Oh forgot to mention I am running caber, I dont think its prolactin related anyway since my chest looks fine it just the little bump!! Please help me out!!

**oxfordbeta** · 07-07-2014, 10:58 PM

I see that this thread is fairly old but i'll still give the question a shot. I have read that Ralox may be effective in reversing pubescent related gyno, as far as experimenting with it should I be concerned with some sort of "rebound" in any way when using it? Thanks in advance.

**Pantelis1001** · 07-31-2014, 01:36 AM

Hi Guys,

I have to understand somethings so pls help.

Lets say that someone is on cycle while he uses hcg and an A.I in the lowest doses. For example 250iu of hcg eod and 0.25 mg aromasin /day.
If he do his mid cycle blood work and sees some estrogens higher than they should be what is the next step?

He have to increase the dose of the A.I? And how much?
Or is it better to start a serm ? And that should be Raloxifen or Nolva?
After the last injection of the cycle should he do blood work again or he must wait 60 days?

Sry if i am speaking bullshit. I try to understand how things work.
Thxxx

**numbere** · 07-31-2014, 06:32 AM

Originally Posted by Pantelis1001

Hi Guys,

I have to understand somethings so pls help.

Lets say that someone is on cycle while he uses hcg and an A.I in the lowest doses. For example 250iu of hcg eod and 0.25 mg aromasin /day.
If he do his mid cycle blood work and sees some estrogens higher than they should be what is the next step?

He have to increase the dose of the A.I? And how much?
Or is it better to start a serm ? And that should be Raloxifen or Nolva?
After the last injection of the cycle should he do blood work again or he must wait 60 days?

Sry if i am speaking bullshit. I try to understand how things work.
Thxxx

This thread is about treating gyno with SERMs. This not the right place to be asking these questions. If you have cycle related questions then you should create your own thread in the Q&A section.

Your hypothetical questions are difficult to answer because advise is tailored to each individuals unique situation. In short, yes the AI dose should be increased but without more information I have no idea how much. SERMs should not be used for keeping E2 within range. SERMs only regulate the amount of E2 that attaches to the receptor and do nothing to change serum levels.

**Pantelis1001** · 08-01-2014, 03:09 AM

Originally Posted by numbere

This thread is about treating gyno with SERMs. This not the right place to be asking these questions. If you have cycle related questions then you should create your own thread in the Q&A section.

Your hypothetical questions are difficult to answer because advise is tailored to each individuals unique situation. In short, yes the AI dose should be increased but without more information I have no idea how much. SERMs should not be used for keeping E2 within range. SERMs only regulate the amount of E2 that attaches to the receptor and do nothing to change serum levels.

Ok Thx and i am sry.

I have one more question about the matter. Somewhere in the article Austin propose not to use A.I with Serms because E2 levels could rise. In the case of gyno reverse on cycle, where the proposals are nolva or raloxifene, what someone should do? Stop using the A.I?