Tamoxifine as a restart alone

**PJS19** · 10-28-2013, 08:23 PM

Might be a stupid question but can tamox be used alone for a restart? Im assuming no since it doesnt act at the pituitary gland? Also Im wondering if it is effective even if you have low levels of e2.

Im seeing my endo again this week, and I know he is going to try using clomid 25mg eod if my levels are still in the gutter. Should I add tamox, or ask him about it, or just go with what he says? I have a thread with my story, I can repost this in that thread and delete this one if easier.

**DAAS** · 10-28-2013, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by PJS19

Might be a stupid question but can tamox be used alone for a restart? Im assuming no since it doesnt act at the pituitary gland? Also Im wondering if it is effective even if you have low levels of e2.

Im seeing my endo again this week, and I know he is going to try using clomid 25mg eod if my levels are still in the gutter. Should I add tamox, or ask him about it, or just go with what he says? I have a thread with my story, I can repost this in that thread and delete this one if easier.

Clomid 25mg EOD worked great for me. Doesn't overcharge the test and leave you with estrogen rebound.

**PJS19** · 10-28-2013, 08:59 PM

Thanks DAAS. I used clomid (prescribed) 50mg everyday back in July. It shot my T through the roof, as well as e2 (although they say e2 test on clomid isnt accurate). But after stopping it, everything came back down. Free T, e2, and LH/FSH are all really low, causing me huge problems. Although my symptoms never lifted on clomid, so maybe I have something else wrong.

Im hoping 25 mg eod will work to keep my levels stable, maybe I will ween off it to 12.5 eod, as I know I am a high responder to the stuff.

I ask about tamox, because I took it for 5 days a few months ago and on day 3 got relief from my symptoms, but only for that one day and then it came back.

**austinite** · 10-28-2013, 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by PJS19

Might be a stupid question but can tamox be used alone for a restart? Im assuming no since it doesnt act at the pituitary gland? Also Im wondering if it is effective even if you have low levels of e2.

Im seeing my endo again this week, and I know he is going to try using clomid 25mg eod if my levels are still in the gutter. Should I add tamox, or ask him about it, or just go with what he says? I have a thread with my story, I can repost this in that thread and delete this one if easier.

Assuming your title is accurate, and you're looking for a restart, and not PCT...

Clomiphene has been studied and proven effective. Typical protocols for Clomiphene restarts are 25-50 mg on Monday, Wednesday and Friday for 2 to 3 months.

I would follow your doctors orders and not vary from them.

**PJS19** · 10-28-2013, 09:05 PM

thanks Austinite. I hope it works. Im afraid my endocrinologist isnt super up to date based on a few things, like not ordering the sensitive estradiol test along with not being concerned with free T of 56 because it was in range (46-225). But he will work with me on this as LH and FSH are both 1.7 and 1.1. That is why I am trying to go into this appointment as knowledgeable as I can be so I can ask questions and make sure Im in good hands with it.

**DAAS** · 10-28-2013, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by PJS19

Thanks DAAS. I used clomid (prescribed) 50mg everyday back in July. It shot my T through the roof, as well as e2 (although they say e2 test on clomid isnt accurate). But after stopping it, everything came back down. Free T, e2, and LH/FSH are all really low, causing me huge problems. Although my symptoms never lifted on clomid, so maybe I have something else wrong.

Im hoping 25 mg eod will work to keep my levels stable, maybe I will ween off it to 12.5 eod, as I know I am a high responder to the stuff.

I ask about tamox, because I took it for 5 days a few months ago and on day 3 got relief from my symptoms, but only for that one day and then it came back.

Perhaps your symptoms didnt lift because of a clomid side effect just from the drug itself. not because your test was low. I took clomid before and had no libido but my test was >1,500

**DAAS** · 10-28-2013, 09:09 PM

Originally Posted by austinite

Assuming your title is accurate, and you're looking for a restart, and not PCT...

Clomiphene has been studied and proven effective. Typical protocols for Clomiphene restarts are 25-50 mg on Monday, Wednesday and Friday for 2 to 3 months.

I would follow your doctors orders and not vary from them.

Is there any thing to do to combat the free estrogen from the increase in testosterone ? Ive always read not to do a AI when PCT. Can anything be done to keep estrogen lower while on clomid? or to prevent rebound?

**austinite** · 10-28-2013, 09:14 PM

Originally Posted by PJS19

thanks Austinite. I hope it works. Im afraid my endocrinologist isnt super up to date based on a few things, like not ordering the sensitive estradiol test along with not being concerned with free T of 56 because it was in range (46-225). But he will work with me on this as LH and FSH are both 1.7 and 1.1. That is why I am trying to go into this appointment as knowledgeable as I can be so I can ask questions and make sure Im in good hands with it.

Sensitive assays haven't been touted for too long. Quest Diagnostics replace their verbiage recently, and soon so will LabCorp, to reflect the importance. There aren't too many doctors that order this panel. However, my experience has always been that requesting a sensitive panel is always fine by doctors. You just have to ask. Dr. Crisler presented his evidence to William Falloon of Labcorp only 3 weeks ago so that Life Extension Foundation will switch from standard panels to Ultra-sensitive assay recommendations on their printouts.

Just be sure to be open minded with your doctor. It's entirely important to minimize saying things like "I read on the internet...". Doctors don't like that. You will know soon enough if your doctor is worthy of your money, or if you need to seek another.

Best of luck to you buddy, keep us posted.

**austinite** · 10-28-2013, 09:16 PM

Originally Posted by DAAS

Is there any thing to do to combat the free estrogen from the increase in testosterone? Ive always read not to do a AI when PCT. Can anything be done to keep estrogen lower while on clomid? or to prevent rebound?

Tamoxifen , very low dose. But if clomiphene, if dosed properly there shouldnt be much issues. Lowering the dose and extending the period works as well.

**PJS19** · 10-28-2013, 09:21 PM

Originally Posted by austinite

Sensitive assays haven't been touted for too long. Quest Diagnostics replace their verbiage recently, and soon so will LabCorp, to reflect the importance. There aren't too many doctors that order this panel. However, my experience has always been that requesting a sensitive panel is always fine by doctors. You just have to ask. Dr. Crisler presented his evidence to William Falloon of Labcorp only 3 weeks ago so that Life Extension Foundation will switch from standard panels to Ultra-sensitive assay recommendations on their printouts.

Just be sure to be open minded with your doctor. It's entirely important to minimize saying things like "I read on the internet...". Doctors don't like that. You will know soon enough if your doctor is worthy of your money, or if you need to seek another.

Best of luck to you buddy, keep us posted.

Good point. I called today and requested sensitive assay, so hopefully the message gets through to my doctor. He isnt expensive since it is an in network doctor for me, so I just pay co pays when I see him. I was seeing a specialist too, but I have to stop because I cant afford it, paying out of pocket. The specialist orders his tests through quest diagnostics, and the e2 reference range was <29 on the ultra sensitive assay. I came in at 7, which I thought was low, but my doctor wasnt concerned.

I have blood work tomorrow which will be about 3 months post the initial clomid usage, so I will see where things are. I am assuming they are still poor, just by the fact that I still feel the same. And to top it off my joints just recently have started to feel week/clicky/popping, so thats just another thing to add on to the symptoms. Maybe from living with poor levels of free T and e2 for half a year now.