Need help for my friend...

[Hrgaland]

...who was on Sustanon cycle for 3 month, for the first time in his life on cycle, without any PCT, Ai or SERM.
Story goes like this: I've met him a week ago, after long time, so we set on some coffee and have a talk. After I told him I'm still in a gym very often, he confessed to me and told me that he was having problems with energy, body fat, and working out in general. So he made a decision to take some AAS. Some guy in his gym gave him 50ml of Sustanon(he didn't even told him what it was- just: this will help you-it's good stuff). WTF??? He didn't even told him how much it was in mg. Also, he didn't even mention to him nothing about PCT and the rest of the stuff during cycle. Now, he's feeling weird, most of his gains were lost in almost few days(2 weeks after last pin he got sick and was lying in bed for 5 days, eating only small portion of bread and potato, once a day). So, he thought that was because of illness. When I asked him about PCT he didn't know what a hell I'm talking about. So, I explained it to him few general things, and he got scared. With reason Very next day he took blood work and the results were very strange, IMO. Testosterone was very low, just above lower line. Like I was expected knowing he didn't took any PCT. Estrogen was also good, little elevated but still inside normal range. I could suggested him some progressive PCT, but the next two levels were very strange. LH and FSH. LH was elevated by 30%, and FSH by 100%. I know PCT will raise test levels, but also LH and FSH levels. So, I didn't know what to suggest him. I was trying to find some answer here on this forum, but without any results. So, guys, I'm asking you - what's happening to him and what he can do to make those elevated levels of LH and FSH back to normal without bringing down his T level.
Of course, he don't wanna go to see some doctor
I was considering about my cycle and now I will have to think again how to make it safer.

[Bio-Active]

Why don't you suggest he make an account here so he can ask directly?

[Hrgaland]

i forgot to mention that he is bad with English - only German(both of us are living in Croatia). I told him to register and ask freely whatever he want, but to use google translator for communication IMO is not good option. Right?
Also, he's 39 YO, and last pin was at the end of June.

[Bio-Active]

i forgot to mention that he is bad with English - only German(both of us are living in Croatia). I told him to register and ask freely whatever he want, but to use google translator for communication IMO is not good option. Right?
Also, he's 39 YO, and last pin was at the end of June.

Yep^^^^

[Bio-Active]

i forgot to mention that he is bad with English - only German(both of us are living in Croatia). I told him to register and ask freely whatever he want, but to use google translator for communication IMO is not good option. Right?
Also, he's 39 YO, and last pin was at the end of June.

If his last pin was in the end of june his best bet moving forward is to get labs run. Anything else is just guessing

[Hrgaland]

What kind of labs run? For what? He'll not be happy about it, hehe
He just send me his results from blood work:
LH 10 high
FSH 19 high
Estrad 109 ok
Test total 11.8 ok, but very low
Test free 287(2.4) ok, but very low
SHBG 23 ok

thanks

[Bio-Active]

What kind of labs run? For what? He'll not be happy about it, hehe He just send me his results from blood work: LH 10 high FSH 19 high Estrad 109 ok Test total 11.8 ok, but very low Test free 287(2.4) ok, but very low SHBG 23 ok thanks

and how long ago were these labs run?

[kelkel]

Ranges would be nice as well...

[Hrgaland]

and how long ago were these labs run?

I think last week. No, I'm sure. Don't know right now exactly which day, but will find out if necessary

[Hrgaland]

Ranges would be nice as well...

sorry Kelkel, I don't know what do you mean with 'Ranges'... please explain

[Bio-Active]

sorry Kelkel, I don't know what do you mean with 'Ranges'... please explain

Reference ranges for the labs he had run. They show what the normal ranges are

[NaijaBoy]

Am I the only one that thinks the OP is talking about himself? Ok continue discussion LoL

[Hrgaland]

Am I the only one that thinks the OP is talking about himself? Ok continue discussion LoL

?? Why should I? My questions and problems were completely different, don't be lazy and look at my first post/thread. This forum is private, I can pretend to be who I want, there's no need for false identities and lies. I'm one proud mother fu***r and I will say what's on my mind and ask for somebodies help when I need one - there's no need for faking

[Hrgaland]

Reference ranges for the labs he had run. They show what the normal ranges are

oh, that. will write them down when I'll get them

[Bio-Active]

oh, that. will write them down when I'll get them

Just makes it easier to help with those ranges. Many labs have different ranges based on the tests they run and the way it's measured

[Hrgaland]

Ranges would be nice as well...

here they are:
LH 10 (1.7-8.6)
FSH 19 (1.5-12.4)
Estrad 109 (>156)
Test total 11.8 (11.4-27.9)
Test free 287(2.4) (243-571(1.6-2.6))
SHBG 23 (17 - 76)

The strangest thing for me that LH and FSH are elevated.

[Bio-Active]

here they are:
LH 10 (1.7-8.6)
FSH 19 (1.5-12.4)
Estrad 109 (>156)
Test total 11.8 (11.4-27.9)
Test free 287(2.4) (243-571(1.6-2.6))
SHBG 23 (17 - 76)

The strangest thing for me that LH and FSH are elevated.

Are theses labs recent? How long after all the meds were ceased were these run?

[Hrgaland]

Are theses labs recent? How long after all the meds were ceased were these run?

he made blood test maybe 10 days ago, give or take. As far as I know he told me last pin of Sustanon was on the end of June.

[Bio-Active]

he made blood test maybe 10 days ago, give or take. As far as I know he told me last pin of Sustanon was on the end of June.

right but how long ago had he discontinued the serms? (Pct meds)

[godzillaaaaa]

dont think he used a PCT?

[Bio-Active]

You might look up the power pct protocol

[Hrgaland]

You might look up the power pct protocol

he didn't use any PCT. I was thinking of telling him about power pct protocol, but I know that protocol is for the people who have ALL values down (Ph, FSH, Test) after shutdown. I am right or ..? Hm.

[Bio-Active]

he didn't use any PCT. I was thinking of telling him about power pct protocol, but I know that protocol is for the people who have ALL values down (Ph, FSH, Test) after shutdown. I am right or ..? Hm.

the idea is to shock the testies in to firing again. He is producing lh but his testies don't seem to be firing

[AD]

To op, the high LH and FSH is almost a good sign in this case, considering he didn't do pct. His brain can recognize that his total T is not sufficient (usually this is the job of the pct), that's why he is producing excess LH and FSH to try to wake his testis up.

[Hrgaland]

the idea is to shock the testies in to firing again. He is producing lh but his testies don't seem to be firing

hehe, he'll be glad to hear this because his 'new girlfriend' just told him that she's maybe pregnant(and she way just one night stand to him). Hahahaha!

[Hrgaland]

To op, the high LH and FSH is almost a good sign in this case, considering he didn't do pct. His brain can recognize that his total T is not sufficient (usually this is the job of the pct), that's why he is producing excess LH and FSH to try to wake his testis up.

Also, this is very good news for him. I just don't know will I tell him this first, or the previous news hahaha. He'll kill me!
So, the best idea is to put him on power pct protocol?

[Bio-Active]

Also, this is very good news for him. I just don't know will I tell him this first, or the previous news hahaha. He'll kill me!
So, the best idea is to put him on power pct protocol?

I suggest giving it a bit more time. His body is producing lh so give it another 4-6 weeks and then run labs again. If he is still having testicular distinction at that point it would be a good idea to try to jump start the testies with the power pct protocol

[AD]

I suggest giving it a bit more time. His body is producing lh so give it another 4-6 weeks and then run labs again. If he is still having testicular distinction at that point it would be a good idea to try to jump start the testies with the power pct protocol

Hi jim. If I remember correctly, Power consist of hcg clomid and nolva right? I was just thinking since they mostly work by increasing LH, and since LH is already high, I wonder if it will do much more. But of course at that point, I would just try anything.

[Bio-Active]

Hi jim. If I remember correctly, Power consist of hcg clomid and nolva right? I was just thinking since they mostly work by increasing LH, and since LH is already high, I wonder if it will do much more. But of course at that point, I would just try anything.

it does but the idea is that his testies are not responding from his lh being elevating so they may need a shock by hitting them with some super doses of hcg in a short window the hope is to kick start them and not risk desensitation of the ledig cells

[Hrgaland]

it does but the idea is that his testies are not responding from his lh being elevating so they may need a shock by hitting them with some super doses of hcg in a short window the hope is to kick start them and not risk desensitation of the ledig cells

So, how the protocol will look like in your opinion? I've found many examples of power protocols here on this board, including only Nolva and Clomid - there was no HCG involved. So, I'm little bit confused now. I thought I knew how power protocol looks like

[Bio-Active]

Day 1-16 : 2500iu HCG every other day.
Day 1-30 : nolva 20mg/day; Clomid 100mg/day (50mg was taken twice per day)
Day 31-45 : nolva 20mg/day

[Hrgaland]

Day 1-16 : 2500iu HCG every other day.
Day 1-30 : nolva 20mg/day; Clomid 100mg/day (50mg was taken twice per day)
Day 31-45 : nolva 20mg/day

Thanks. He have the info. He's in process of buying goods.
MY question is, should he still wait for those 4-5 weeks as you told me before (regardless that 5 month has passed from last pin) or start with power PCT immediately?

[Bio-Active]

Thanks. He have the info. He's in process of buying goods.
MY question is, should he still wait for those 4-5 weeks as you told me before (regardless that 5 month has passed from last pin) or start with power PCT immediately?

I would since his body is producing plenty of lh. Give it those 4-5 weeks and see if the testies respond and if not trying the restart wouldn't hurt

[Hrgaland]

I would since his body is producing plenty of lh. Give it those 4-5 weeks and see if the testies respond and if not trying the restart wouldn't hurt

I have at home some test booster from Animal. Should I give him that ( he also have some form of Tribulus Terrestris), maybe it can help?

[Bio-Active]

I have at home some test booster from Animal. Should I give him that ( he also have some form of Tribulus Terrestris), maybe it can help?

i wouldn't. At this point you want to let the body recover and get the most accurate reading possible with the next labs