Possible HCG Post-Cycle Protocol?

[swaggypzero]

Hello everyone.
First my stats
I am 24, I have run three cycles (this current one is my third)
I am 221 pounds, 6'1 at 13% BF last check (that was at 224)
My diet and training is solid. I track my macros and am leaning out currently (trying to get to 10% bf)

PRs (no idea if this needs to be included within stats portion but I will provide it)
Bench: 375
Squat: 405
Deadlift: 495

So I just read over Austinite's HCG protocol and I really am feeling like I am screwed lol. I am currently on a cycle and this week is my last week. I have been on for 15 weeks and this coming injection (this Thursday) will be my last.
I ran the following

Weeks 1-6
Test E: 500 mg per week

Kick-starters
Dbol : 40 mg a day (Weeks 1-4)
Test Prop: 100 mg EOD, (first 2.5 weeks)

Weeks 6-10
Test E: 750 mg a week *noticed more bloating and not much increased strength so cut it back down to 500 after week 10.

Week 10-15
Test E: 500 mg a week

Arimidex -Weeks 1-12-0.5 mg EOD
12-15: 0.25 mg EOD (feel better with this dose)

As mentioned, I have run two cycles prior to this and I used HCG AFTER my last injection. The instructions were to hold off until 10 days after last Test E injection and blast it EOD. And to start clomid and nolvadex three weeks after the last injection. I have the whole protocol laid out on my PC at home if anyone has specific questions about it.
I followed this protocol twice (bloodwork following PCT checked out both times and test levels were back to normal) and I was able to recover but I have never been on this long before and after reading his post, I am extremely worried.

What would you suggest would be the most beneficial thing to do for me? As mentioned, I do only have one more injection left BUT I am really worried about recovery now. Should I just wait the 10 days and try this protocol over again or no.

Any advice would be appreciated. Long post I know but I wanted to get the stats stuff out of the way.

[Bio-Active]

You have 3 options and I only suggest 2 of them. Option 1. Come off and just do your serms for pct
Option 2. Look up the power pct protocol after 15 weeks and not running hcg you more than likely will be suffering from testicular disfunction and need a jump start
Option 3. Stay on a low dose of test for 4-6 weeks with hcg alongside to kick start the testies

[swaggypzero]

Ok great, I looked up the PCT protocol and it looks like something I could definitely do. With that said, you mentioned you would recommend 2 out of the 3 options you listed. I am assuming option 1 is the one you would advise against? Also if I were to run low dose of test, what would you consider that to be? 250 mg? And while doing that, would hcg be at 500 IU twice per week for the 4-6 week period? I just want to make sure I am clear on what you are saying. I have already mad one mistake not using HCG initially so I don't want to keep making mistakes here lol.

[Bio-Active]

Ok great, I looked up the PCT protocol and it looks like something I could definitely do. With that said, you mentioned you would recommend 2 out of the 3 options you listed. I am assuming option 1 is the one you would advise against? Also if I were to run low dose of test, what would you consider that to be? 250 mg? And while doing that, would hcg be at 500 IU twice per week for the 4-6 week period? I just want to make sure I am clear on what you are saying. I have already mad one mistake not using HCG initially so I don't want to keep making mistakes here lol.

correct option one I would not suggest. Low dose test option umm yeah 200-250 is fine and yes you could run the hcg at that dose and see how it works. Only you will know if it's working and if it doesn't then you could get more aggressive and try the power pct method

[swaggypzero]

correct option one I would not suggest. Low dose test option umm yeah 200-250 is fine and yes you could run the hcg at that dose and see how it works. Only you will know if it's working and if it doesn't then you could get more aggressive and try the power pct method

Ok this makes sense. Now when you say, only you will know if it works, apart from my testicles regaining their size, what other signs would indicate recovery using the 500ius twice per week. Obviously since I am on cycle still, I don't feel "shut down" or anything apart from knowing my testicles are smaller than their typical size

[Bio-Active]

Ok this makes sense. Now when you say, only you will know if it works, apart from my testicles regaining their size, what other signs would indicate recovery using the 500ius twice per week. Obviously since I am on cycle still, I don't feel "shut down" or anything apart from knowing my testicles are smaller than their typical size

the testies regaining size will be a good indicator

[swaggypzero]

Great, thank you for the solid information. Much appreciated!

[swaggypzero]

I had one other question for you. Now assuming, the size does come back over this 3-4 week period, what would you advise for overall PCT? Like what would your clomid/Nolva breakdown be? I think I am going to just run the low dose test with 500iu hcg twice per week but obviously if that doesn't work, I will shift to the Power pct protocol right away.

[Bio-Active]

I had one other question for you. Now assuming, the size does come back over this 3-4 week period, what would you advise for overall PCT? Like what would your clomid/Nolva breakdown be? I think I am going to just run the low dose test with 500iu hcg twice per week but obviously if that doesn't work, I will shift to the Power pct protocol right away.

i suggest running a little longer oct than normal because of how long you have been suppressed. Assuming everything goes good with the hcg protocal once you start pct I would run the following. Clomid 100/50/50/50 nolvadex 40/40/20/20/20/20

[swaggypzero]

i suggest running a little longer oct than normal because of how long you have been suppressed. Assuming everything goes good with the hcg protocal once you start pct I would run the following. Clomid 100/50/50/50 nolvadex 40/40/20/20/20/20

Alright, will follow that suggestion. Now since this week was going to be my last shot, my test is finished so I am going to be grabbing a brand new vial.
With that said, what do you think of maintaining my dose of 500 mg per week through the next 4 weeks while I am running the 500 IU twice per week to get the testes running again. Or would lowering the dose to a more base level of 250 mg per week be a better idea? I know whether I am taking in 250 or 500 mg, it is still much more than my body would naturally produce but if the HCG process will work better with the lowered dose, i will do that. Thanks for your help

[Bio-Active]

Lower you test dose to let your body's hormones level out closer to a normal level. The idea is to put your body in a position to recover

[swaggypzero]

Lower you test dose to let your body's hormones level out closer to a normal level. The idea is to put your body in a position to recover

Alright solid. Should i leave my arimidex at 0.25 mg EOD or would you adjust that also?

[Bio-Active]

Alright solid. Should i leave my arimidex at 0.25 mg EOD or would you adjust that also?

i would continue it up to pct because the hcg will cause more aromatization

[swaggypzero]

Hey so I picked up the HCG today as well as the bac water but I have a slight predicament that I was hoping you could help me with. The last time I was on cycle, someone did the mixing for me so I didnt have to really pay attention to the details. But basically I have 3 ML of bac water along with a HCG vial that is 5000 iu; i am having trouble figuring out once I mix the 3 ML into the hcg vial, what would equal out to 500 IU on an insulin needle that I would be doing the sub-q injections with.
WOuld you be able to help me out here.

Thanks!

[Bio-Active]

Just use 2 ml of bac water. Then the 1 tick on your insulin syringe will equal 250 iu

[swaggypzero]

Perfect! Man honestly thank you so much for helping me through this.
So then since I am doing 500 IU twice this week, I would just go to the 2 marker on the insulin syringe correct? And obviously do that later this week as well with my second shot.

[Bio-Active]

Perfect! Man honestly thank you so much for helping me through this.
So then since I am doing 500 IU twice this week, I would just go to the 2 marker on the insulin syringe correct? And obviously do that later this week as well with my second shot.

Yes and it really doesnt matte as long as you do it every 3.5 days or so. I usually just pin my hcg the day before i pin the test just cause its easier to remember that way

[swaggypzero]

Hey man so just to update you. The hcg has worked and they are back to full size and I am still running the low dose of 250 mg. Now that I am essentially ready to cycle off, my question is related to HCG while the ester clears from my system; should I continue the hcg twice a week until I start my SERMS three weeks after my last shot? Been reading up on half lives so I wanted to get your opinion. Thanks! Oh and when would you recommend starting PCT?

[Bio-Active]

Hey man so just to update you. The hcg has worked and they are back to full size and I am still running the low dose of 250 mg. Now that I am essentially ready to cycle off, my question is related to HCG while the ester clears from my system; should I continue the hcg twice a week until I start my SERMS three weeks after my last shot? Been reading up on half lives so I wanted to get your opinion. Thanks! Oh and when would you recommend starting PCT?

continue right up to 3 days prior to starting the serms

[swaggypzero]

And should I start serms three weeks after last injection or later?

[Bio-Active]

And should I start serms three weeks after last injection or later?

are you running test cyp? I just looked and your running test e so I would start 14 days from last pin

[swaggypzero]

Yeah man, test E. Ok great I will start 14 days after last pin.

You have been a huge help in setting me up for a solid recovery, much appreciated!

[Bio-Active]

Yeah man, test E. Ok great I will start 14 days after last pin. You have been a huge help in setting me up for a solid recovery, much appreciated!

keep us posted how the pct goes

[swaggypzero]

Had another question for you man. So what about arimidex? Should I continue using that during PCT or just the serms? Usually I don't use it but I wanted to get your opinion. I only have like three pills left so would have to get more for PCT but have never used it during that phase anyways.

[Bio-Active]

Had another question for you man. So what about arimidex? Should I continue using that during PCT or just the serms? Usually I don't use it but I wanted to get your opinion. I only have like three pills left so would have to get more for PCT but have never used it during that phase anyways.

drop the AI when you start the serms

[swaggypzero]

In terms of the cutting itself, i dropped body fat but I am not where I want to be yet, as I am trying to get under 10%. Now all previous cycles were purely "bulk" cycles and obviously post cycle protocol for those would always be to eat as much as you can and maintain the size but what about cutting? I am done now, obviously the test will clear out in a few weeks but would you suggest continuing my cut or perhaps just maintaining current macros and weight until my PCT is over? I looked around on the forums but didnt see this really addressed. I understand PCT is a really catabolic environment so if I am only going to be damaging myself by continuing my cut, i will stick to maintenance for now and resume it in 4-6 weeks.

Thanks

[Bio-Active]

If you try to cut now you may loose some more of the hard earned gains you made on cycle. I suggest keeping the calories up during pct

[swaggypzero]

Hey Jim,
So my last hcg shot was today and it has been 13 days now since last pin. I notice you mentioned to not start SERMS until 3 days after last hcg shot so would you recommend for me to start them on Friday then? Or do you think I should just start tomorrow as the test will have cleared fully from my system?
Thanks

[Bio-Active]

Hey Jim, So my last hcg shot was today and it has been 13 days now since last pin. I notice you mentioned to not start SERMS until 3 days after last hcg shot so would you recommend for me to start them on Friday then? Or do you think I should just start tomorrow as the test will have cleared fully from my system? Thanks

go ahead and start the serms. A few days isn't going to make much difference

[swaggypzero]

go ahead and start the serms. A few days isn't going to make much difference

Just to keep you posted, PCT has been a success thus far. i am going into week 5 now, just taking 20 mg of Nolva now for this week and next then it will be over. Overall, felt tired and what not early on in PCT but the Clomid/Nolva combo at the dosages you recommended has worked out well.

I will post blood work as I am going to get some done at the end of May. Do you think that will be a good indicator of full recovery? Or should I get the blood work done sooner?

Thanks

[Bio-Active]

Just to keep you posted, PCT has been a success thus far. i am going into week 5 now, just taking 20 mg of Nolva now for this week and next then it will be over. Overall, felt tired and what not early on in PCT but the Clomid/Nolva combo at the dosages you recommended has worked out well.

I will post blood work as I am going to get some done at the end of May. Do you think that will be a good indicator of full recovery? Or should I get the blood work done sooner?

Thanks

Good job brother make sure you are getting plenty of rest as well

[swaggypzero]

Hey man I had a quick question. So I am off nolvadex as of yesterday and this morning I had a weird jump in weight around 2 pounds. Now I track my weight every day and my macros so I know I wasn't over my calories or anything and it was a typical day of going to the gym and doing cardio. What gives here? After getting off Nolva, is there a rebound effect to be expected? I was only on 20 mg at this point. Thanks

[Bio-Active]

Hey man I had a quick question. So I am off nolvadex as of yesterday and this morning I had a weird jump in weight around 2 pounds. Now I track my weight every day and my macros so I know I wasn't over my calories or anything and it was a typical day of going to the gym and doing cardio. What gives here? After getting off Nolva, is there a rebound effect to be expected? I was only on 20 mg at this point. Thanks

i really do not think the nolva has anything to do with the weight jump. A lot has to do with what you are yesterday. The time you weighed in. Whether you emptied your bladder or not. Try not to over think things and I wouldn't weigh in every day. Weigh in once ew first thing in the am after you empty your bladder

[swaggypzero]

The weird thing is I always weigh myself first thing in the morning after emptying my bladder so it's just strange. As mentioned I didn't go over macros or sodium yesterday so weird to see. Will chalk it up as a bad weigh in. No big deal. One other question, you knew this was coming; how long before I can go back on again? Would you wait 3-4 months?

[Bio-Active]

The weird thing is I always weigh myself first thing in the morning after emptying my bladder so it's just strange. As mentioned I didn't go over macros or sodium yesterday so weird to see. Will chalk it up as a bad weigh in. No big deal. One other question, you knew this was coming; how long before I can go back on again? Would you wait 3-4 months?

time on plus pct equals time off as a good rule of thumb. Labs is really the best way to see if you have recovered after finishing pct

[swaggypzero]

Cool. I am getting blood work done end of May so I will post lab results then.

[Bio-Active]

Cool. I am getting blood work done end of May so I will post lab results then.

good luck and good choice on the blood work brother

[swaggypzero]

Hey man. So I got the blood work done and it comes in as follows. I will post pretty much anything that may be important and if I miss something that you would want to know about, let me know.
Glucose serum fasting - 5.1 (within 3.6-6.0 normal range)
HDL cholesterol: 1.16
LDL Cholesterol: 1.51. No ranges given here but she said my cholesterol results were very good. I am also on accutane now so it doesn't seem to be having too much of a negative effect.
TSH: 0.35 (range is between 0.35-5). This is taken care of by my medication.
T4 free: 17 (range is between 12-22)
Free t3: 4.3 (range between 2.6-5.7)
DHEAS: 6.2 (range between 5.73 and 13.4)
Prolactin: 10 (<18 considered optimal)
Free testosterone: 31 (range is between 32-91). My doc wasn't worried about the test being a bit below range and said it will take time to rise again especially since I have been in a calorie deficit for a while and it will be measured again come September
Estrogen was at a normal range but I didn't get her to print that report. She indicated no issues with estrogen.
As mentioned on accutane now so will be laying off the gear until further notice, give myself a nice long recovery. With that said, what do you think of the results? Any issues you see or come to mind?

[Bio-Active]

How long have you been done with pct?

[swaggypzero]

PCT finished on April 24th so roughly around a month. These blood test results are from May 12th.