Length of PCT for a 6 week Tren A/Test Prop cycle?

[Pericu]

Hej peepz,

I plan to do a short 6 week Tren ace/Test prop cycle.

ED pinning;
- Tren ace 50mg
- Test Prop 25mg
- 0,5mg Caber (e3d)

What would be a proper length for such a short cycle? Does it still need to be about 4 weeks long? (generalized and not by individum)

Furthermore, when do I add Nolva to the PCT? I heard that you should wait some days due to the effect of nolva combined with a NOR-19.

Help appreciated!

[numbere]

Why no mention of an AI or hcg? How many cycles have you run? Why pin every day and not every other day? A four week PCT should be fine. You can add an extra week or two of nolva if you feel it's needed. If you are using tren then you should know when to add nolva to the PCT. PCT should begin 3 days after last pin and include both clomid and nolva.

[Pericu]

Why no AI?!
AI is useless with trenbolone and the small amount of test is only to counteract the surpession of tren.

Why no Hcg?
I've run several cycles and so far, hcg increases my estro levels too much. If you didn't know that this is possible, feel free to do a bit of research of it and take my experience and tests with bloodwork for it.

Why everyday pinning?
To simplify the answer, to keep a more steady tren/test level instead of small spikes.

If you are using tren then you should know when to add nolva to the PCT. PCT should begin 3 days after last pin and include both clomid and nolva.

Sorry to be kind of an a****** but you couldn't even help a bit. I wasn't asking for how PCT should be done in general. I was asking for if a 4 week PCT is necessary after only a 6 week cycle. Furthermore nolva should be introduced to the pct later than at the start of the pct because of the chance that there's still some Tren left and it would be counterproductive.
In all, I wanted to know, if there are people out there having experience with a 6 week tren ace cycle and people who can back up the topic with Tren+Nolva (PCT)
Again, sorry that it seems rude, but I want help on the actual question and not the usual off topic discussion which you see in every opened thread

[numbere]

You have a horrible attitude. If an AI is useless on small doses of test then TRT patients wouldn't have to use one. If you are a low aromatizer and don't require an AI then you should have just said so, there is no need to be rude to someone who is offering help. If you were taking a proper dosage of AI then the aromatization from hcg would be mitigated. Test p and tren a have half lives of 3 days. Pinning every day would make little to no difference in serum levels. To each his own I suppose. I answered your question about how long PCT should be, so I'm not sure why you got so agitated. Every cycle is different so the advise and PCT are different. Tren has no effect on nolva. You can begin clomid and nolva at the same time.

[Pericu]

You have a horrible attitude. If an AI is useless on small doses of test then TRT patients wouldn't have to use one. If you are a low aromatizer and don't require an AI then you should have just said so, there is no need to be rude to someone who is offering help. If you were taking a proper dosage of AI then the aromatization from hcg would be mitigated. Test p and tren a have half lives of 3 days. Pinning every day would make little to no difference in serum levels. To each his own I suppose. I answered your question about how long PCT should be, so I'm not sure why you got so agitated. Every cycle is different so the advise and PCT are different. Tren has no effect on nolva. You can begin clomid and nolva at the same time.

Yeah, you're probably right. Sorry, I appreciate taking the time to help.

I don't know much about TRT to be quite honest. But when taking tren your natural test levels get extremely supressed. That's where the low dosage of test comes in. It's purpose is to mimic the natural levels and not really go severely above, that's why I don't plan on taking an AI. An AI for tren is, as mentioned, useless, that's where caber comes in.

Considering the half life of Ace then EOD will be adequite to provide stable blood levels. While some ppl do claim that spreading the weekly volume out between more frequent injections helps lower sides...other say it has neve made a diff. It's personal preference but I dont think pinning ED=dedication. It's a matter of not having to pin anymore than whats neccessary to get the desired results.
But I'd like to add these two graphs, which also holds true for Tren;


I guess, in the end it will come down to personal preferences. I'm still looking for the sources to back my thoughts on nolva introduction. When I find it, I'm going to post it

[numbere]

I understand the importance and logic behind using a test base when adding other compounds. If you go to the TRT forum you will see that those guys keep their levels in the normal range and they almost all use an AI.

An AI is not the same as a DA (e.g. caber), and is very useful when using a 19nor. Using an AI to help keep e2 within range will make using a DA redundant. This is because for prolactin/progestin to be an issue e2 needs to be elevated. Having elevated e2 is probably the most unhealthy event that can happen on cycle.

Half lives are not as straight forward as one would think, there are many facets involved. Some components which affect hormone half life include BMI, metabolism, amount of esterase and most importantly injection site. A compound with the acetate ester can have a half life of anywhere from 1-3 days.

Steroid calculators are not very useful. This is because they do not show a true reflection of what is happening inside your body pharmacokinetically. Steroid calculators only use one equation, half life. Have a look at the attachment to see some of the formulas used in determining the pharmakinetics of a compound. That formula sheet doesn't even include taylor or maclaurin series.

Useful Pharmacokinetic Equations

People have been using sust 250 on cycle, while injecting twice a week since the 80's, with the same results as those who pin EOD. Comparing those two cycles on a steroid plot is frighting, but not a true reflection of what is really happening internally. If you want to pin ED then that is fine, but not necessary for a safe successful cycle.

[Pericu]

I understand the importance and logic behind using a test base when adding other compounds. If you go to the TRT forum you will see that those guys keep their levels in the normal range and they almost all use an AI.

An AI is not the same as a DA (e.g. caber), and is very useful when using a 19nor. Using an AI to help keep e2 within range will make using a DA redundant. This is because for prolactin/progestin to be an issue e2 needs to be elevated. Having elevated e2 is probably the most unhealthy event that can happen on cycle.

Half lives are not as straight forward as one would think, there are many facets involved. Some components which affect hormone half life include BMI, metabolism, amount of esterase and most importantly injection site. A compound with the acetate ester can have a half life of anywhere from 1-3 days.

Steroid calculators are not very useful. This is because they do not show a true reflection of what is happening inside your body pharmacokinetically. Steroid calculators only use one equation, half life. Have a look at the attachment to see some of the formulas used in determining the pharmakinetics of a compound. That formula sheet doesn't even include taylor or maclaurin series.

Useful Pharmacokinetic Equations

People have been using sust 250 on cycle, while injecting twice a week since the 80's, with the same results as those who pin EOD. Comparing those two cycles on a steroid plot is frighting, but not a true reflection of what is really happening internally. If you want to pin ED then that is fine, but not necessary for a safe successful cycle.

Ok, this is pretty damn informative! Thanks a lot.

I will definitely have a look into the TRT section. Especially to understand the testo levels+why still to use an AI. Just a quick question regarding this, will E2 levels still elevate much if you run such a low test dose, especially when Tren is supressing natural test? Won't it be as if there's the usual free testosterone floating around the system?

Mmh, well. So in the end it really comes down to, why inject ED if EoD is still fine and if there's a difference it would only be marginal. Fine with me when I can get away with EoD^^

The pharmacokinetic equations are pretty dope. Never seen anything like that before. Thanks a lot man!

[numbere]

TRT isn't my strongest knowledge base so if I make a mistake here a hope a vet will clean up the mess. Most guys on TRT are older and as one ages aromatase enzyme production increases along with adipose tissue, thus leading to a higher amount of aromatization. I believe everyone's goal on TRT is to be AI free but it takes a long time, sometimes over a year, to get serum levels balanced. An AI helps them achieve this balance. SHBG levels also play a role. High SHBG requires more exogenous test in order to increase free test serum.

To be honest no one can tell you what will happen to your e2 levels on low dose test and tren. This is where blood work becomes important. The best way to find out is to have pre cycle BW. Then begin your test, tren, AI, hcg and then have BW again half way through the cycle. Based on the results you can change the AI dose accordingly.

A healthy male produces about 7-10 mg test per day. So lets say you are an outlier, producing 100 mg/week. On your cycle of 175 mg/week that means you are introducing 75% more test then your body naturally produces. I'm willing to bet that you would benefit from an AI. I hope this answers your question. Look into aromasin as it's gentle making it difficult to lower your e2 too much and stacks nicely with multiple compounds.

[Pericu]

Yeah, when you lay it out like this, it makes a lot of sense.
I guess 0,25mg of ari EoD would be sufficient? Still have some ari left even though I always wanted to get my hands on some aromasin.

Thanks again numbere!

[numbere]

Yeah it's a big difference when you crunch the numbers. Six weeks of pinning ED is 42 pins versus 21 when pinning EOD. That amount of dex is a good starting point. As long as it was stored in a dark place at a moderate temp you should be good to go. Also, your mid cycle BW should include a sensitive estradiol assay. As the standard e2 test is tailored towards women.