5 months post cycle and low test need help

Hi guys


i finished up a cycle on eq and test mid December 2015. did the clomid and nolva for pct ran HCG through the cycle with arimdex. I waited along time to get post bloods as im been very busy with work kids etc.

ran
sus 250 @ 2ml week
eq @ 1ml a week

ran the sus for 12 weeks
stoped the the eq at week 6 as i felt i had issues with libido and erections etc

cycle was good i didnt lose alot coming off felt strong and still tranining and making gains.

took bloods on the monday and was shocked to see my
test at 6.6 nmol when it should be min 8.8nmol
and free test was really low as well.

i took pre bloods before this cycle and my test was bored line low so i shouldnt have done another cycle, but now as i have i ended up with even lower test levels. funny thing is can have sex have hard erections but no morning wood or libido and i been feeliing tired depressed etc.

seeing an endo soon what should i do ? resart pct or leave it with the endo?

Did you run the labs within 2 hours of waking? What were the reference ranges?

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Originally Posted by Bio-Active

Did you run the labs within 2 hours of waking? What were the reference ranges?

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Went in at 2pm just to get an appointment but the pathology I went to said no need to do it fasted. I'm in Australia by the way so we don't have private labs

Total test 6.6 nmol (8.3-30.2)
Dehydroepiandrosterone sulphate 4.9 (3.0-10.5)
Shbg 24nmol (13-71)
Free test 149pmol (225-725l

I would say see your endo and if you get in to good hands, you will get sorted with proper TRT protocol so at least you will improve long term, I wouldn't worry too much as long as you get looked after properly, not being pushed around from clinic to clinic or even worse from clinic to home read some diet books :D

I mean, take it easy man, if you were borderline low when you started cycling its expected you will return lower than before, but not guaranteed and more so you likelly were prone to lowT naturally hence lowT pre-cycle to begin with... Could always be even worse.

If you really want to not go TRT route, you could read in on power PCT (but avoid this megadosing HCG of thousands IU's a week)or just restart your PCT from scratch and make sure you get pharma clomid and nolva and dose/time it appropriately, otherwise being looked at by endo is a wise option too and start from there, maybe he will suggest HCG and then after a clomid mono-therapy and regular bloods and so on, its hard guessing, face your problem and beat it to the ground properly :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by InsaneMuscle

I would say see your endo and if you get in to good hands, you will get sorted with proper TRT protocol so at least you will improve long term, I wouldn't worry too much as long as you get looked after properly, not being pushed around from clinic to clinic or even worse from clinic to home read some diet books :D

I mean, take it easy man, if you were borderline low when you started cycling its expected you will return lower than before, but not guaranteed and more so you likelly were prone to lowT naturally hence lowT pre-cycle to begin with... Could always be even worse.

If you really want to not go TRT route, you could read in on power PCT (but avoid this megadosing HCG of thousands IU's a week)or just restart your PCT from scratch and make sure you get pharma clomid and nolva and dose/time it appropriately, otherwise being looked at by endo is a wise option too and start from there, maybe he will suggest HCG and then after a clomid mono-therapy and regular bloods and so on, its hard guessing, face your problem and beat it to the ground properly :)

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thanks insane muscle
im keen to see the endo and get it sorted.
im continuing to smash it at the gym trying to do alot more compound movements etc.
i will keep you updated

Quote:

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Originally Posted by InsaneMuscle

I would say see your endo and if you get in to good hands, you will get sorted with proper TRT protocol so at least you will improve long term, I wouldn't worry too much as long as you get looked after properly, not being pushed around from clinic to clinic or even worse from clinic to home read some diet books :D

I mean, take it easy man, if you were borderline low when you started cycling its expected you will return lower than before, but not guaranteed and more so you likelly were prone to lowT naturally hence lowT pre-cycle to begin with... Could always be even worse.

If you really want to not go TRT route, you could read in on power PCT (but avoid this megadosing HCG of thousands IU's a week)or just restart your PCT from scratch and make sure you get pharma clomid and nolva and dose/time it appropriately, otherwise being looked at by endo is a wise option too and start from there, maybe he will suggest HCG and then after a clomid mono-therapy and regular bloods and so on, its hard guessing, face your problem and beat it to the ground properly :)

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So I've seen the endo he reckons wait it out that my body will recover on its own. But this low test is really effecting me at work home and with my family. I'm thinking of doing a pct again with some hcg Adex clomid and nolva can anyone please help me out. With hcg I got a powdered vial and I don't even know how much bac water to mix with it?

What is the full bloodwork results?

LH?

FSH?

E2?

If for instance your hcg comes in 5000iu powder amp, take 10ml bac water, draw some of it in to syringe, snap the amp top off , squirt some bac water on to powder, and watch it disolve, draw disolved compound back to syringe, and inject back to bac vial. Swirl it and store it in the fridge. 250iu hcg in 100iu insulin syringe will be 50iu of drawn hcg. You can do the math. 10ml = 5000iu hcg. 1ml = 500iu hcg and so on

Quote:

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Originally Posted by InsaneMuscle

If for instance your hcg comes in 5000iu powder amp, take 10ml bac water, draw some of it in to syringe, snap the amp top off , squirt some bac water on to powder, and watch it disolve, draw disolved compound back to syringe, and inject back to bac vial. Swirl it and store it in the fridge. 250iu hcg in 100iu insulin syringe will be 50iu of drawn hcg. You can do the math. 10ml = 5000iu hcg. 1ml = 500iu hcg and so on

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So what dosage would you recommend of the hcg nolva clomid and is Adex gonna be ok

You should not go blindflod in to pct. Whats your full bloods result look like? Hcg to be ran only separatelly from clomid and nolva.

What was your nolva clomid protocol?

Age?

Any issues with prolactin?. I have struggled with prolactin and it just dont fade away. But it can significantly reduce the effect of pct if elevated.

And you sure your nolva/clomid was legit?....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by InsaneMuscle

You should not go blindflod in to pct. Whats your full bloods result look like? Hcg to be ran only separatelly from clomid and nolva.

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Total test 9.1 nmol range 8.3-30
Shbg 24nmol ( 13-71)
Free test 208 (225-725)
Fsh 4 iu/l
Lh 4iuml
E2 75pmol

Sorry about my ref ranges I'M from Australia.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Silabolin

What was your nolva clomid protocol?

Age?

Any issues with prolactin?. I have struggled with prolactin and it just dont fade away. But it can significantly reduce the effect of pct if elevated.

And you sure your nolva/clomid was legit?....

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I'm 28
My endo said my prolactin was ok.
My last pct was
Clomid 100 50 50 50
Nolva 40 40 20 20 20
I ran hcg thru cycle 500iu per week
And Adex every 3day. 25 use to do eod but shut down my e2 hard

I'd see a Urologist and tell them you need help restoring your levels to a healthy range. Tell them you have no plans to have kids, so test would be a good option. My Urologist was hung up on me having kids. Once I told her I do NOT want kids, she was cool with test. I'm 28 yrs old, primary hypo from AAS abuse.

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Originally Posted by Charlie6

I'd see a Urologist and tell them you need help restoring your levels to a healthy range. Tell them you have no plans to have kids, so test would be a good option. My Urologist was hung up on me having kids. Once I told her I do NOT want kids, she was cool with test. I'm 28 yrs old, primary hypo from AAS abuse.

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I don't want trt I want to recover and go natty until I hit a plateau.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dazzlinyu

I don't want trt I want to recover and go natty until I hit a plateau.

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Michial Scally's Power PCT Program is summarized in this thread.

Test Levels during PCT, are they realy that low?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by numbere

Michial Scally's Power PCT Program is summarized in this thread.

Test Levels during PCT, are they realy that low?

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So need to do hcg? Just clomid and nolva? Have u ever tried this protocol Ur self numbere?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dazzlinyu

So need to do hcg? Just clomid and nolva? Have u ever tried this protocol Ur self numbere?

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Personally I don’t like the idea of using more than 500 IU of hCG per day and would skip this step if implementing this regimen. Also, there is no need to use hCG with this protocol unless you will be having blood work at the end of the first 15 days of the program.

The Power PCT program consists of two parts, and uses three research compounds. Part I uses hCG to test functionality of the leydig cells. Part II uses tamoxifen (nolva) and clomiphene (clomid) to stimulate a hypothalamic pituitary response.

Part I begins with administering an hCG challenge test consisting of 1,000-2,500 IU every other day for 15 days. At the of the 15 day period one should have an assay which includes total test. A failed test for sufficient leydig cell functionality is when serum test levels reside in the low 20% of the adult male reference range, which is about 400 ng/dl. If one is unable to attain normal levels through the hCG challenge then they are likely suffering from primary hypogonadism. This means that if SERM treatment in Part II is successful then natural test levels will likely be less than desirable.

I've never needed to use such an aggressive PCT because I usually cycle for only 6-8 weeks at a time.

maybe you should try femara (letro) Gregg Valentinos favourite for bringing back low test. He had a friend who went from 10 to 400 ng/dl (300-1100) just from femara.

You definitely don't need HCG right now if you're trying to get your natural levels back. That makes absolutely no sense, it will mess up your natural lh/test again. I'd say take some clomid or nolva if you need to take something and then get blood done.

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Originally Posted by MirinJawBrah

You definitely don't need HCG right now if you're trying to get your natural levels back. That makes absolutely no sense, it will mess up your natural lh/test again. I'd say take some clomid or nolva if you need to take something and then get blood done.

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What about an AI aswell? Aromasin?

Look dude, if you're going to take anything then follow the procedure I gave the includes nolva and clomid.

It's the only method that resets HPTA functionality which has been scientifically tested on humans.

Taking an AI will potentially crash your e2.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by numbere

Look dude, if you're going to take anything then follow the procedure I gave the includes nolva and clomid.

It's the only method that resets HPTA functionality which has been scientifically tested on humans.

Taking an AI will potentially crash your e2.

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Thanks bro I'll give it a go

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Silabolin

maybe you should try femara (letro) Gregg Valentinos favourite for bringing back low test. He had a friend who went from 10 to 400 ng/dl (300-1100) just from femara.

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Sil Greg Valentino is nuts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dazzlinyu

Thanks bro I'll give it a go

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Good luck dazz.

Looking forward to reading your labs in a few months.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by numbere

Look dude, if you're going to take anything then follow the procedure I gave the includes nolva and clomid.

It's the only method that resets HPTA functionality which has been scientifically tested on humans.

Taking an AI will potentially crash your e2.

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Numbere.

What do u think about just a clomid restart?

Aust had me do one a long time ago and it worked.

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Originally Posted by Sfla80

Numbere.

What do u think about just a clomid restart?

Aust had me do one a long time ago and it worked.

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Yes, clomid only is a viable option.

When I give advise on here I try and put myself in the OPs shoes.

If I were in his position I would want the best regime in order to maximize the possibility of HPTA reset.

The following is why I believe nlova+clomid is better than only clomid.

We know that a 100mg does of clomid will increase the lh pulse amplitude ~30% after a single day.

After one week of clomid lh production will likely double.

However continued clomid use can lead to LHRH insensitivity, which will lower lh production.

We know that nolva increases the lh pule infrequence.

This effect from nolva will take longer than one week.

However, the benefit of using nolva over and extended time is that nolva increases the sensitivity to LHRH.

Which ultimately leads to increased production of LH in the long run.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by numbere

Look dude, if you're going to take anything then follow the procedure I gave the includes nolva and clomid.

It's the only method that resets HPTA functionality which has been scientifically tested on humans.

Taking an AI will potentially crash your e2.

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Numbere I was wonder if u could also advise me when it comes to diet at this time. I've been eating just above maintenance. Been eating macro as 30 p 30 f 40 carbs but I feel bloated and fat.

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Originally Posted by dazzlinyu

Numbere I was wonder if u could also advise me when it comes to diet at this time. I've been eating just above maintenance. Been eating macro as 30 p 30 f 40 carbs but I feel bloated and fat.

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That's not cool.

If you make a thread in the diet forum with your stats and info then I'll see what I can do to help.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by numbere

That's not cool.

If you make a thread in the diet forum with your stats and info then I'll see what I can do to help.

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No problem thanks

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dazzlinyu

No problem thanks

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OK guys I started a second pct clomid/nolva. Clomid at 100 50 50 50 nolva at 20 for 6 weeks straight. I just finished my second week I feel weird my balls are bigger and definitely feel heavy. But I still have no morning wood or libido am I doing something wrong?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dazzlinyu

OK guys I started a second pct clomid/nolva. Clomid at 100 50 50 50 nolva at 20 for 6 weeks straight. I just finished my second week I feel weird my balls are bigger and definitely feel heavy. But I still have no morning wood or libido am I doing something wrong?

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You can't judge HPTA reset by libido and morning wood, only by bw.

It's a waiting game at this point.

My libido doesn't come back fully until about a month after PCT.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by numbere

You can't judge HPTA reset by libido and morning wood, only by bw.

It's a waiting game at this point.

My libido doesn't come back fully until about a month after PCT.

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Hey numbere

Thanks for the feedback.
Man I'm a bit worried about my clomid I got it from a mate who got me a few strip's from Thailand. I don't feel emotional at all but like I said my balls feel bigger. Also can u please make a comment in my nutritional section thank you

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dazzlinyu

Hey numbere

Thanks for the feedback.
Man I'm a bit worried about my clomid I got it from a mate who got me a few strip's from Thailand. I don't feel emotional at all but like I said my balls feel bigger. Also can u please make a comment in my nutritional section thank you

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If it's generic pharma clomid then you shouldn't worry.

I'll check out you diet post after my evening workout.

Hope you haven't been waiting long.

I've had some mild to moderate health issues over the last few weeks that have prevented me from being active on the board.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by numbere

If it's generic pharma clomid then you shouldn't worry.

I'll check out you diet post after my evening workout.

Hope you haven't been waiting long.

I've had some mild to moderate health issues over the last few weeks that have prevented me from being active on the board.

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Nah I haven't been waiting long. Hope all is good with ur health