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Thread: When do my T return back to normal after my first cycl

  1. #1
    Mordy is offline New Member
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    When do my T return back to normal after my first cycl

    I had a 13 weeks cycle:
    T enanthate 900mg/w week 1-8
    Equipoise week 600mg/w1-8
    Trenblone acetate 100 eod week 3-8
    T propnate 300mg/w week 8-13
    Winistrol 50 mg eod week 8-13
    Masteron 100 mg eod week 8-13
    Anavar 40 mg ed week 8-13
    HCG 250 iu every 4 days during cycle
    Last week I stopped test and HCG doubled dosage of winistrol and masteron
    PCT after 3 days of last injection :
    Clomid 50/50/25/25
    Nolva 40/20/20/20

    I made blood test the same day I finished pct :
    Results was low LH FSH Test free & total
    Normal e2 and prolactin

    Should I start new PCT or wait 6 weeks and make another blood test ???
    Remark this is my first cycle 😅

  2. #2
    DocToxin8's Avatar
    DocToxin8 is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    Low FSH & LH at the end of PCT (you still had SERMS in your system),
    means you were still suppressed by AAS.

    I would extend PCT with nolva/Clomid for some weeks.
    Then do BW.

    THAT was a very complicated first cycle I must say.
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  3. #3
    Mordy is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocToxin8 View Post
    Low FSH & LH at the end of PCT (you still had SERMS in your system),
    means you were still suppressed by AAS.

    I would extend PCT with nolva/Clomid for some weeks.
    Then do BW.

    THAT was a very complicated first cycle I must say.
    Should I take HCG with nolva and clomid or no ???
    And thanks ��

  4. #4
    DocToxin8's Avatar
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    Nah, you used hcg during your cycle.
    Hcg now will also be supressive on FSH and LH,
    And you don't want that.

    Your AAS levels are probably just starting to clear your system,
    How low was your LH and FSH?
    Are we talking virtually zero or mid range?
    (Post the BW results for better advice)

    But that you had low LH and FSH with SERMs in your system tells me youre still suppressed by AAS. It would help a lot to see your bloodwork though.

    PCT now would be just more SERMs to stimulate the pituitary into action.

  5. #5
    DocToxin8's Avatar
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    Nah, you used hcg during your cycle.
    Hcg now will also be supressive on FSH and LH,
    And you don't want that.

    Your AAS levels are probably just starting to clear your system,
    How low was your LH and FSH?
    Are we talking virtually zero or mid range?
    (Post the BW results for better advice)

    But that you had low LH and FSH with SERMs in your system tells me youre still suppressed by AAS. It would help a lot to see your bloodwork though.

    PCT now would be just more SERMs to stimulate the pituitary into action.

  6. #6
    Mordy is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocToxin8 View Post
    Nah, you used hcg during your cycle.
    Hcg now will also be supressive on FSH and LH,
    And you don't want that.

    Your AAS levels are probably just starting to clear your system,
    How low was your LH and FSH?
    Are we talking virtually zero or mid range?
    (Post the BW results for better advice)

    But that you had low LH and FSH with SERMs in your system tells me youre still suppressed by AAS. It would help a lot to see your bloodwork though.

    PCT now would be just more SERMs to stimulate the pituitary into action.
    I can't post pictures something wrong with my mobile but
    LH 1.0 (1.7-8.5)
    FSH 0.5 (1.5-14)
    Test free 5.4 (8.3-40.1)
    Test total 1.15 (2.4-8.3)

  7. #7
    canadian77 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocToxin8 View Post

    THAT was a very complicated first cycle I must say.
    I agree. Totally unnecessary for a first cycle. You probably would have got just as good results from 500 - 600 M G of Test for 14 weeks.

  8. #8
    DocToxin8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mordy View Post
    I can't post pictures something wrong with my mobile but
    LH 1.0 (1.7-8.5)
    FSH 0.5 (1.5-14)
    Test free 5.4 (8.3-40.1)
    Test total 1.15 (2.4-8.3)
    Ok,
    Next cycle you do, follow the general rule of test only.
    This is why.

    As you see from your bloodwork your pituitary ain't doing shit.
    Meaning it's suppressed by AAS.
    But your T is also low, meaning it isn't T that's suppressing your HPTA.
    (Or not only T)

    My guess is that you still got EQ in your system.
    (Yes it can linger in your fat cells for a long ass time,
    took me 2mo to just get some LH and FSH response back one time I checked,
    and had used, among other stuff, EQ.)

    So based on your bloodwork you basically should have started PCT right about now, or maybe a week earlier.

    In short, you need SERMs for additional weeks and then redo bloodwork to see where you at.

  9. #9
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    Not sure I'm buying this story...
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  10. #10
    canadian77 is offline Junior Member
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    Holy crap I just realized you did Tren for your first cycle.... I don't know why I missed that the first time.

    Seriously wtf were you thinking? Whoever told you to do this deserves a punch in the liver.

    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    Not sure I'm buying this story...
    Same. Either OP is stupid and I don't say that lightly or somebody seriously took advantage of him. This is a cycle most experienced guys wouldn't run.... 900mg of Test for a first run? WTF..... plus all those other compounds?

    This has to be a troll post. Can't believe I got fooled.
    Last edited by canadian77; 05-10-2017 at 12:24 PM.

  11. #11
    Mordy is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocToxin8 View Post
    Ok,
    Next cycle you do, follow the general rule of test only.
    This is why.

    As you see from your bloodwork your pituitary ain't doing shit.
    Meaning it's suppressed by AAS.
    But your T is also low, meaning it isn't T that's suppressing your HPTA.
    (Or not only T)

    My guess is that you still got EQ in your system.
    (Yes it can linger in your fat cells for a long ass time,
    took me 2mo to just get some LH and FSH response back one time I checked,
    and had used, among other stuff, EQ.)

    So based on your bloodwork you basically should have started PCT right about now, or maybe a week earlier.

    In short, you need SERMs for additional weeks and then redo bloodwork to see where you at.
    Your suggestion for SERMS dosage and thanks for your patience

  12. #12
    Mordy is offline New Member
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    I made a new blood test today and results were strange
    LH 4.9 (1.7-8.6)
    FSH 1.3 (1.5-14)
    Total test 3.53 (2.4-8.3)
    Still waiting for free test result
    So shall I start a new pct with serms or not

  13. #13
    DocToxin8's Avatar
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    Your beginning to get some LH response at least.
    Yeah, I'm gonna assume all you've said is true and I haven't counted weeks or anything since your last shots.
    Start the SERMs, just do a normal PCT protocol.
    And then re test.

  14. #14
    DocToxin8's Avatar
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    But if all you've told is true,
    It's at least a good example of why to avoid so many compounds,
    Especially in a first cycle.

    So take that to heart. Best cycle just use T.
    That way you'll see during PCT what the problem is.
    If your pituitary doesn't start then you'll see still some elevated/artificial T on your BW instead of low T and no LH/FSH.

    Now you really have no idea why things are like they is,
    but common sense dictates AAS still in your system.

    Just nolva/Clomid 4 weeks.
    The dose you used was actually a little low for such a cycle.
    (The Clomid dose at least)

    You can increase it, to the more standard PCT protocol.
    Someone with more PCT experience should chime in for better advice on this.

    But at least 50-50-50-50 for Clomid if you tolerate it.

  15. #15
    Mordy is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocToxin8 View Post
    But if all you've told is true,
    It's at least a good example of why to avoid so many compounds,
    Especially in a first cycle.

    So take that to heart. Best cycle just use T.
    That way you'll see during PCT what the problem is.
    If your pituitary doesn't start then you'll see still some elevated/artificial T on your BW instead of low T and no LH/FSH.

    Now you really have no idea why things are like they is,
    but common sense dictates AAS still in your system.

    Just nolva/Clomid 4 weeks.
    The dose you used was actually a little low for such a cycle.
    (The Clomid dose at least)

    You can increase it, to the more standard PCT protocol.
    Someone with more PCT experience should chime in for better advice on this.

    But at least 50-50-50-50 for Clomid if you tolerate it.
    Thanks bro for your knowledge

  16. #16
    DocToxin8's Avatar
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    No problems.

    I meant next cycle do T only,
    But could almost say that the best cycles are T only too,
    but that's goal dependant.

    Just don't think that just because you used both a lot of different compounds and a high dose, that 750mg T only for your next cycle ain't gonna work.

    Or 500mg TE, and consolidate with oral winstrol at the end f.ex.
    (Oral because it leaves the system quick)

    Did you use oral Winstrol or injected during this cycle?

    I ask cause a common misconception is that injecting Winstrol depot leaves the system in a day or two. It doesn't.
    It also depends on particle size.
    I've used water based winny formulations that was active for at least a week,
    and lingered even longer in the system.

    A good old cycle on the old days was just 500mg TE and 50mg Winstrol depot x 2 a week (100mg EW).
    For a novice that's actually enough.
    Going higher doesn't equal more gains, just more sides.

    Sure, you will use higher dosages,
    but what you ran for a first cycle would be more than what I run during blasts now.

  17. #17
    Mordy is offline New Member
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    I used injection winstrol keifie pharma
    This cycle was a competition preparation cycle with a fuckin dump coach
    And I won't go this far again

  18. #18
    kelkel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mordy View Post
    I made a new blood test today and results were strange
    LH 4.9 (1.7-8.6)
    FSH 1.3 (1.5-14)
    Total test 3.53 (2.4-8.3)
    Still waiting for free test result
    So shall I start a new pct with serms or not

    I don't think you need serms at all with your current LH value. You just need to be patient.
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  19. #19
    DocToxin8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    I don't think you need serms at all with your current LH value. You just need to be patient.
    Interesting.
    You know more than me about PCT Kel,
    but wouldn't at least some Clomid kickstart it a little?
    He's bound to have some E2 floating around there too.
    And his LH value is just starting to rise.
    I'm not sure, hence I ask, wouldn't you think it better for his HPTA to "SERM it" a little at this point?

  20. #20
    kelkel's Avatar
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    4.9 on that scale is absolutely normal, imho. By patience I mean giving his body time to find it's new normal value. He's already effectively restarted and more stimulation does not automatically mean a higher (permanent) downstream value. To me, if anything, it appears his testicals need time to catch up. But to be fair we'd need to see E2, SHBG and FT to really assess it.

    All that said, SERMS won't hurt. The question is are more necessary at this point.
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  21. #21
    Mordy is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    4.9 on that scale is absolutely normal, imho. By patience I mean giving his body time to find it's new normal value. He's already effectively restarted and more stimulation does not automatically mean a higher (permanent) downstream value. To me, if anything, it appears his testicals need time to catch up. But to be fair we'd need to see E2, SHBG and FT to really assess it.

    All that said, SERMS won't hurt. The question is are more necessary at this point.
    My E2 29 (0-41) but this was last week
    What is FT free test or free t3 ???

  22. #22
    DocToxin8's Avatar
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    Free test.
    Free T3 or T4, while you could check that too, isn't directly related to your HPTA.

    There you have it.
    Either just wait it out a little,
    or alternatively add a SERM.
    If it's your balls not catching up yet then hcg could be used,
    but you're really entering the time where it's mere speculation on my part whether any of these will help any more than just time by itself.

    There's always options though.
    You could use Clomid monotherapy for 3-4 weeks just to see, won't hurt.

    If that gives any additional benefit to just waiting it out I don't know though.
    It should at least raise your LH even more so that testes will be more stimulated. If that will provide anything more than a temporary relief idk.

  23. #23
    kelkel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocToxin8 View Post

    There's always options though.
    You could use Clomid monotherapy for 3-4 weeks just to see, won't hurt.

    If that gives any additional benefit to just waiting it out I don't know though.
    It should at least raise your LH even more so that testes will be more stimulated. If that will provide anything more than a temporary relief idk.

    This ^^^^ if anything.
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  24. #24
    Nogbad the bad is offline Associate Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mordy View Post
    I had a 13 weeks cycle:
    T enanthate 900mg/w week 1-8
    Equipoise week 600mg/w1-8
    Trenblone acetate 100 eod week 3-8
    T propnate 300mg/w week 8-13
    Winistrol 50 mg eod week 8-13
    Masteron 100 mg eod week 8-13
    Anavar 40 mg ed week 8-13
    HCG 250 iu every 4 days during cycle
    Last week I stopped test and HCG doubled dosage of winistrol and masteron
    PCT after 3 days of last injection :
    Clomid 50/50/25/25
    Nolva 40/20/20/20

    I made blood test the same day I finished pct :
    Results was low LH FSH Test free & total
    Normal e2 and prolactin

    Should I start new PCT or wait 6 weeks and make another blood test ???
    Remark this is my first cycle 😅
    Fuck me...that looks like a cycle for a Tyrannosaurus Rex,aiming to pack on some size!

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