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Thread: Mature for Power PCT?

  1. #41
    Windex's Avatar
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    I would PM Kelkel or Youthful55Guy and see if they have additional insight.
    I no longer check my inbox. If you PM me I will not reply.

  2. #42
    Bjorg89 is online now Junior Member
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    Can I? Wouldn´t they write here if they had? I wouldn´t want to be intrusive

  3. #43
    Youthful55guy is online now Knowledgeable Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjorg89 View Post
    October 2018

    Estradiol: 21ng/L------------------Range 11-44
    Progesterone: 0.3 ug/L (H)-------Range <0.2
    Prolactin: 27 ug/L (H)-------------Range 3.4-20

    T (total): 4.11 ng/ml--------------Range 1.88-7.24
    T (free): 13.69 pg/ml--------------Range 7-22.7
    Vit D: 18.3 ug/L (L)----------------Range >30

    November 2018

    Estradiol: <20 pg/ml-------(lower then reference, no actual result)
    Prolactin: 8.7 ng/ml--------Range not specified
    LH: 3.4 mIU/ml-------------Range 0.1-7.6
    FSH: 7.0 mIU/ml-----------Range 0.1-11.1
    T (total): 325 ng/dl---------Range 72-823
    T (free): 6.35 ng/dl---------Range not specified

    March 2019

    Progesterone: 0.2 ng/ml (H)-------Range 0.05-0.15
    Prolactin: 397 mIU/L (H)-----------Range 86-324
    T (total): 4.88 ng/ml----------------Range 2.5-8.4
    T (free): 9.2 ng/L--------------------Range 8.3-40.1 this seems way too low?
    DHT: 432 ng/L------------------------Range 219-1080

    So, I lactate, I'm low energy, no sex drive (cranky wife), low sperm and it has been a year around.

    I would seriously consider getting a pituitary MRI. You Lactate! Did I read that correctly? Your prolactin and your progesterone levels are way too hi. I have no idea where the progesterone is coming from but the prolactin may be indicative a pituitary tumor. I'm surprised (shocked) your primary doc hasn't discussed this with you. The progesterone is a mystery to me. That is what could be causing it to be so high. Are you supplementing with progesterone for some reason? High prolactin + high progesterone is a recipe for gynecomastia . All you need now is high estrogen to complete the picture. Fortunately, your E is low but if you go back on T, that will more than likely increase and exasperate the lactation problem.

    At this point, you've developed mammary tissue and there's no going back without surgery to remove it. First figure out where the prolactin and progesterone is coming from and fix the problem, then consider cosmetic surgery to remove the mammary tissue.

  4. #44
    Bjorg89 is online now Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Youthful55guy View Post
    I would seriously consider getting a pituitary MRI. You Lactate! Did I read that correctly? Your prolactin and your progesterone levels are way too hi. I have no idea where the progesterone is coming from but the prolactin may be indicative a pituitary tumor. I'm surprised (shocked) your primary doc hasn't discussed this with you. The progesterone is a mystery to me. That is what could be causing it to be so high. Are you supplementing with progesterone for some reason? High prolactin + high progesterone is a recipe for gynecomastia . All you need now is high estrogen to complete the picture. Fortunately, your E is low but if you go back on T, that will more than likely increase and exasperate the lactation problem.

    At this point, you've developed mammary tissue and there's no going back without surgery to remove it. First figure out where the prolactin and progesterone is coming from and fix the problem, then consider cosmetic surgery to remove the mammary tissue.
    First of all, thank you for your input Youthful55guy. I guess you didn't see all the info from the thread, probably due to alot of "going on" on the first page already.

    Let me sum it up a little bit:

    The last blood work from 14 days ago (after beeing on the caber for 7 weeks):

    Testo = 395ng/dl ---------- 255-877
    Free T = 7,17 ng/dl ---------- 5,3-18,3
    Prolactin = 3,5 ng/ml ---------- 2,5-17,7
    LH = 5,2 mIU7ml ---------- 01-7,4
    FSH = 7,4 mIU/ml ----------- 0,1-11,3
    LFQ = 0,81
    SHBG = 41,7 nmol/L ----------- 12,5-72
    FAI = 33,9% ----------- 15-95
    DHT = 612,8 pg/ml ----------- 255-995


    There is no estradiol and no progesterone. So the last known value of progesterone is from March 2019 (0.2 ng/ml (H)-Range 0.05-0.15) and of estradiol from October 2018 (Estradiol: 21ng/L-Range 11-44).

    So as it seems the prolactin is now (presumably) in check. What is confusing is that I am still lactating.

    So to answer your other questions:
    1. I am not taking anything, that I would know of, that could raise my progesteron. I actually hope that it has also lowered with the lowering of the prolactin.
    2. I had an MRI in November. Everything seems to be in order.
    3. I had an ultrasound of testicles and breast in April. Everything seems to be in order.

    I did some research and found some articles where it says that lactation could also be an indicator of liver and kidney problems, but the doc said that in that case the values for those organs would be indicating that. So I think and hope that is not the case.

    Could it be the low level of testo, or maybe testo to estradiol ratio?

    I am pretty confused at this point. I am still on caber. I lowered the dose back to 0,25mg/week. The doctor only wrote that I should continue the therapy for the next 3 months, but didn't specify the dose which could be understood as, that I should continue to take 0,5mg/week, which I find to much now when my prolactin dropped from 13,7 to 3,5 in 7 weeks. So I am afraid it could drop to low in the next 3 months.

    I was thinking to go to a private lab and pay and check my testo, estradiol, progesterone, prolactin levels again. Maybe something else?

    Cheers
    Last edited by Bjorg89; 07-01-2019 at 08:04 AM.

  5. #45
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    Sorry for the late response. Have not been able to get on the forum much lately. When it comes to prolactin being low, I've yet to speak to a person who's felt side effects from it. For that matter I run caber year round at .25 x 2 and have for years, without issue. Not that you need this, it's just my preference. The caber obviously helped with your elevated levels and an adenoma has been ruled out. Win-win.

    When it comes to lactation, it's not normal but it's not all that unusual either. Normally I've seen it in guys running cycles including larger amounts of progestins. That said, you've got a handle on prolactin now so I'd think the lactation will slowly be suppressed as well. The concern will be when you come off of caber. Also, stop manipulating your breast. It can exacerbate the issue.

    Regarding your estrogen it does not appear you had a sensitive assay? Without that it's really a guess as to whether your result is accurate or not. Standard estradiol tends to read higher in men. Sometimes significantly higher.
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  6. #46
    Bjorg89 is online now Junior Member
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    Thanks kelkel for taking the time...

    Mac34 wrote on the first page of this thread that he had a crash in about a month of use I think. Not sure how one would know. I feel crashed the last year anyway and the improvement of the prolactin hasn't made any better. That's why I thought it is not working until I did the blood work.

    The doc wrote to stay on the caber for the next 3 months, so that's what I'm gonna do.

    Yeah it is probably just a standard estradiol I guess. Do I stand a better chance if i go to a private lab? What else should I check once I am already there?

    I would like to start doing something regarding my lower testosterone .

    Cheers

  7. #47
    Youthful55guy is online now Knowledgeable Member
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    Sorry about not responding or reading the prior posts. I normally do not participate in discussions or forums that are not related to medically necessary TRT. Not that I am opposed to it, but I have no experience to offer and it's not where my interests are. but since you asked for my help, here I am.

    Unfortunately, once a guy develops mammary tissue, it's always going to be there unless it is medically removed. Having mammary tissue will always make you more sensitive to hormones that promote lactation, E2, Progetins, and prolactin being the main hormones of concern.

    I am perplexed about your high progesterone levels. That is something you might want to purse further with your doctor. Perhaps it could be cross-reactivity in the labs with certain anabolic hormones that have pregestin-like activity (Nandrolone /deca come immediately to mind). Having high prolactin with high progesterone is definitely a cause for concern regarding gynecomastia . Adding in high E2 makes the problem much worse.

    I agree with Kel in that using the standard female estrogen assay is worse information than none at all. Men will always test high in that assay. It simply is not sensitive enough at the low end to distinguish between 30 pg/mL and 100 pg/mL. So it is going to always return the lowest end of the sensitivity range, which I'm guessing is around 50 pg/mL depending on the test method. Men should always use an assay design for men with a sensitivity range in the 10-50 range.

    I also agree with Kel that if you have some medical issue driving up your prolactin, you will probably always need treatment to lower it. I don't understand your doctor's rationale for discontinuing treatment and hoping the problem goes away without having discovered the root cause.

  8. #48
    Bjorg89 is online now Junior Member
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    Answered in quote...
    Quote Originally Posted by Youthful55guy View Post
    Sorry about not responding or reading the prior posts. I normally do not participate in discussions or forums that are not related to medically necessary TRT. Not that I am opposed to it, but I have no experience to offer and it's not where my interests are. but since you asked for my help, here I am.

    Thank you for the comprehensive answer Youthful55guy


    Unfortunately, once a guy develops mammary tissue, it's always going to be there unless it is medically removed. Having mammary tissue will always make you more sensitive to hormones that promote lactation, E2, Progetins, and prolactin being the main hormones of concern.

    Why do you sound so sure that I have developed it? Wouldn't it be seen on the ultrasound?

    I am perplexed about your high progesterone levels. That is something you might want to purse further with your doctor. Perhaps it could be cross-reactivity in the labs with certain anabolic hormones that have pregestin-like activity (Nandrolone /deca come immediately to mind). Having high prolactin with high progesterone is definitely a cause for concern regarding gynecomastia . Adding in high E2 makes the problem much worse.

    Is it really so high? The latest know value from March is "Progesterone: 0.2 ng/ml (H) / Range 0.05-0.15", That is not so high, is it?

    I agree with Kel in that using the standard female estrogen assay is worse information than none at all. Men will always test high in that assay. It simply is not sensitive enough at the low end to distinguish between 30 pg/mL and 100 pg/mL. So it is going to always return the lowest end of the sensitivity range, which I'm guessing is around 50 pg/mL depending on the test method. Men should always use an assay design for men with a sensitivity range in the 10-50 range.

    The range from October with the result was "Estradiol: 21ng/L-Range 11-44" and the one from the November was "Estradiol: <20pg/ml-Range 20-60, so not even in the range. That is low Estradiol, or am I talking about the wrong estradiol here?

    I also agree with Kel that if you have some medical issue driving up your prolactin, you will probably always need treatment to lower it. I don't understand your doctor's rationale for discontinuing treatment and hoping the problem goes away without having discovered the root cause.

    Well that I will probably see when I get of the med, if that is the case after the next 3 months of therapy that are scheduled
    Anyway, I have no problem going to a lab again, doing any tests you think are necessary or are out of date or missing. Please let me know, because I need help with it.

  9. #49
    Bjorg89 is online now Junior Member
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    Guys?

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    Bjorg89 is online now Junior Member
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    bump

  11. #51
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    So I had my "check-in" at the doctors office again. As usual, I did not see the doctor, only blood work was done, as follows:

    Prolactin: 1,47 (3,3) ng/ml ---> 2,5 - 17 ng/ml low
    LH: 4,5 mIU/ml ---> 0,1 - 7,6 mIU/ml
    FSH: 6,6 mIU/ml ---> 0,1 - 11,1 mIU/ml
    SHBG: 36,2 nmol/l ---> 13 - 71 nmol/l
    Test.: 223 (389) ng/dl ---> 251 - 872 ng/dl low
    Free T.: 3,87 (7,21) ng/dl ---> 5,8 - 17,7 ng/dl low
    Estradiol: 25 ng/l ---> 11 - 44 ng/l
    Vit D: 60 ug/l ---> >30 ug/l

    The values in brackets are from june, after two months of caber and the results from last week, after 5 months of caber.

    So prolactin is now to low and both T got worse.

    So I am considering Dr. Scully PCT, because the doc wrote in the report that I should do another 8 weeks of cab 0,25/week. So to half my dose. I don't see how that could help.

    So my question on you guys would be, should I do the Dr. Scully or should I maybe try just the Clomid for 6-8 weeks, like 25mg EOD or so...

    What do you think?
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  12. #52
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    My Vote goes for Scully! You have tried this path now
    I think many if not most are a little scared of Dr. Scully since it's somewhat unorthodox plus high dosage of HCG which has it's
    possible downfalls.
    However, it did wonders for me and my life!
    That doesn't mean it will work on everyone, but it's sure worth a shot!

    Check first with the veterans here before so they can read your results.

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    Windex,kelkel?

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    Hey guys, so sad that I am not getting any input anymore...

    But the struggle continues. I woke up today with the pain in my left nipple and a super small lump, so I freaked out a bit and took 0,5mg Arimidex I had on hand, because I was sure that my estrogen levels were somehow ower the roof. I rushed to the private lab, had my Prolactin, Progesterone and E2 levels checked:

    Prolactin: 3,5 ng/ml ---> 2,5-17 ng/ml
    Progesterone: 0,1 ug/l ---> <0,2 ug/l
    Estradiol: 23,2 ng/l ---> 11-44 ng/l

    Very confusing results. Everything is in range, at least on paper.

    Is it possible that my Testosterone /Estradiol ratio could be the problem? In all tests I have had until now, my Estradiol is always around 25 ng/l, so I am not sure why I am having this pain now.

    After that, I went to the Doctors Office, where I am being treated with the Caber since April (which I stopped last Monday, because I couldn't see the logic behind the "lowering my dose", when the PRL was already to low in the last testing).

    So, like I said, my last pill was on the last Monday. Should I be taking caber based on my todays results, which show that PRL rose a bit since I quit the Caber, but is still in the lower range?

    Anyhow, I did not see the Doctor, they took my blood and gave me the Referral to go do the Ultrasound again. I had one already in April and it was ok.

    I also made a new appointment with the private Endocrinologist, which will hopefully have more Interest in helping me restoring my health.

    Cheers

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjorg89 View Post
    Hey guys, so sad that I am not getting any input anymore...

    But the struggle continues. I woke up today with the pain in my left nipple and a super small lump, so I freaked out a bit and took 0,5mg Arimidex I had on hand, because I was sure that my estrogen levels were somehow ower the roof. I rushed to the private lab, had my Prolactin, Progesterone and E2 levels checked:

    Prolactin: 3,5 ng/ml ---> 2,5-17 ng/ml
    Progesterone: 0,1 ug/l ---> <0,2 ug/l
    Estradiol: 23,2 ng/l ---> 11-44 ng/l

    Very confusing results. Everything is in range, at least on paper.

    Is it possible that my Testosterone /Estradiol ratio could be the problem? In all tests I have had until now, my Estradiol is always around 25 ng/l, so I am not sure why I am having this pain now.

    After that, I went to the Doctors Office, where I am being treated with the Caber since April (which I stopped last Monday, because I couldn't see the logic behind the "lowering my dose", when the PRL was already to low in the last testing).

    So, like I said, my last pill was on the last Monday. Should I be taking caber based on my todays results, which show that PRL rose a bit since I quit the Caber, but is still in the lower range?

    Anyhow, I did not see the Doctor, they took my blood and gave me the Referral to go do the Ultrasound again. I had one already in April and it was ok.

    I also made a new appointment with the private Endocrinologist, which will hopefully have more Interest in helping me restoring my health.

    Cheers
    Sad to hear that you are feeling worse bro! I understand that you took Arimidex to combat what I guess you thought was something similar to Gyno, but my guess
    is that it's the Prolactin. According to the thread, your prolactin has almost doubled in little more than a week.
    I do not think it's something dangerous, just some swollen glands or the like.

    Did you take Arimidex after or before the checkup? Just so that the results are not tampered with and show a false result because of it.
    That might lead us to gyno symptoms after all, in which case you might need something else now.

    Hope the fellas that are experts join soon
    Last edited by Fiskevatten; 10-09-2019 at 11:24 AM.

  16. #56
    Bjorg89 is online now Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiskevatten View Post
    Sad to hear that you are feeling worse bro! I understand that you took Arimidex to combat what I guess you thought was something similar to Gyno, but my guess
    is that it's the Prolactin. According to the thread, your prolactin has almost doubled in little more than a week.
    I do not think it's something dangerous, just some swollen glands or the like.

    Did you take Arimidex after or before the checkup? Just so that the results are not tampered with and show a false result because of it.
    That might lead us to gyno symptoms after all, in which case you might need something else now.

    Hope the fellas that are experts join soon
    Hey bro,

    yeah, bad day today. I took the Adex after. I had that in mind, not to manipulate the results. Hopefully this gets better in few days. I gues I should be "keeping my eye" on the Prolactin for few weeks now.

    I am hoping that too

  17. #57
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    your total T is only in the 300s. the last thing you'd want to take is an AI.. AI's don't prevent or cure gyno in any way shape or form especially if its progestin based. with fairly low T levels, AIs are the last thing you'd want to take


    if your willing to take highly toxic drugs like AI's, Caber, etc.. then it should be an easy choice to be able to chose to take androgens (like Halo and Mast) to counter act your current problems. being so easily able to pop an arimidex pill without even thinking, it should be just as easy to pop 10mg of Halotestin .

    its like being a alcoholic and going though withdrawls. then being picky about wither your going to drink vodka vs whisky. doesn't matter


    your androgen load is extremely low . your estrogen and progestin load is elevated in comparison.. simply increasing your androgen load is a simple fix.
    being all for taking crappy toxic drugs like arimidex and caber (which aren't going to fix your problem), but being against taking AAS like Holtestin and Masteron to increase androgen load , makes no sense..
    its like someone who snorts cocaine all day long, yet is against taking Tylenol for a headache


    I'm not saying that taking steroids is the answer. but right now, increasing androgen load significantly is definitely going to help . specifically Halo and Masteron (which are no worse then AI's and Caber)

  18. #58
    Bjorg89 is online now Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by GearHeaded View Post
    your total T is only in the 300s. the last thing you'd want to take is an AI.. AI's don't prevent or cure gyno in any way shape or form especially if its progestin based. with fairly low T levels, AIs are the last thing you'd want to take

    I wasn't aware that I am doing harm with that


    if your willing to take highly toxic drugs like AI's, Caber, etc.. then it should be an easy choice to be able to chose to take androgens (like Halo and Mast) to counter act your current problems. being so easily able to pop an arimidex pill without even thinking, it should be just as easy to pop 10mg of Halotestin .

    its like being a alcoholic and going though withdrawls. then being picky about wither your going to drink vodka vs whisky. doesn't matter

    I get the comparison, but it is not about what I am willing to take, it's about not knowing what I should. I thought that my estrogen was trough the roof and causing this symptom, so I took what I had at hand, before it's to late. That is at least how I was thinking. There must be something that caused this today

    your androgen load is extremely low . your estrogen and progestin load is elevated in comparison.. simply increasing your androgen load is a simple fix.
    being all for taking crappy toxic drugs like arimidex and caber (which aren't going to fix your problem), but being against taking AAS like Holtestin and Masteron to increase androgen load , makes no sense..
    its like someone who snorts cocaine all day long, yet is against taking Tylenol for a headache

    I am not against anything. It's just that if I knew how to fix my problem, I wouldn't even be here in the first place. It is obivious that I do not know much, what I am doing, or else I wouldn't end up where I have, with the fucked HPTA.


    I'm not saying that taking steroids is the answer. but right now, increasing androgen load significantly is definitely going to help . specifically Halo and Masteron (which are no worse then AI's and Caber)

    What you are suggesting is totally new to me. I have never heard of Halotestin and am not sure if I could even get it. I was just cruising on testo for to long. I have no AAS experiences. I thought that I would be on the right path with some HCG, Clomid and Nolvadex. I just wasn't sure in what combination and what doses. That is why I have been asking and posting here and hoping for some experienced advices

    I am trying to get the medical help, but I didn't have much luck with this doc in the past few months. At least that's how this appears to me. Maybe the private one will be able to help more, but I am not to positive about thet either at the moment. I am pretty sure that some of the guys here know more, then most of the doctors out there. They have more AAS experiences after all.
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    Can you post a picture of your chest ?
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    Bjorg89 is online now Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Windex View Post
    Can you post a picture of your chest ?
    Sorry, not comfortable with that.

    Found some interesting stuff while researching:

    "A new study lends further evidence to a suspected link between abnormal breast growth in young boys -- called prepubertal gynecomastia -- and regular exposure to lavender or tea tree oil, by finding that key chemicals in these common plant-derived oils act as endocrine-disrupting chemicals."

    "Researchers at the NIEHS, including Kenneth Korach, Ph.D., a co-investigator for the new study, previously found laboratory evidence that lavender and tea tree oil have estrogenic (estrogen-like) properties and anti-androgenic (testosterone inhibiting-like) activities, meaning they compete or hinder the hormones that control male characteristics, which could affect puberty and growth."


    My beard oil main ingredient is tea tree oil

    Not sure if it's just coincidence or not, but maybe an useful info for the bearded guys.
    Last edited by Bjorg89; 10-15-2019 at 05:49 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bjorg89 View Post
    Sorry, not comfortable with that.

    Found some interesting stuff while researching:

    "A new study lends further evidence to a suspected link between abnormal breast growth in young boys -- called prepubertal gynecomastia -- and regular exposure to lavender or tea tree oil, by finding that key chemicals in these common plant-derived oils act as endocrine-disrupting chemicals."

    "Researchers at the NIEHS, including Kenneth Korach, Ph.D., a co-investigator for the new study, previously found laboratory evidence that lavender and tea tree oil have estrogenic (estrogen-like) properties and anti-androgenic (testosterone inhibiting-like) activities, meaning they compete or hinder the hormones that control male characteristics, which could affect puberty and growth."


    My beard oil main ingredient is tea tree oil

    Not sure if it's just coincidence or not, but maybe an useful info for the beard guys.
    Feels veeery far fetched bro.
    I hardly believe that something like that would give anything other than a allergic reaction.
    Sure, it can have some affect with longtime use if you are extremely sensitive to it (like e.g. the studies with soy or licorich), but nothing like you have.
    When are you going to the Endocrinologist?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiskevatten View Post
    Feels veeery far fetched bro.
    I hardly believe that something like that would give anything other than a allergic reaction.
    Sure, it can have some affect with longtime use if you are extremely sensitive to it (like e.g. the studies with soy or licorich), but nothing like you have.
    When are you going to the Endocrinologist?
    Yeah, I know it's a long shot, but I guess I'm just panicking, because I really want for this lump to go away. I thought it's maybe possible, because I may be prone to it. I don't know. It's really strange that I'm still lactating, although my prolactin, progesterone and estradiol are in range.

    Next week bro. Really looking forward to. I hope that he will have more knowledge and interest. I will ask him if we can focus on my testosterone levels now.

    Cheers
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    Been reading again. Gyno reversing and so on. I found that Nolva could do the job. Can I give low dose of Nolva a try for my gyno symptome? Or would I do harm with that? GearHeaded wrote that Arimidex is not a way to go. Is Nolva a better option? It's been a week and the lump is still there.

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    So, this week I had an appointment with the new Endocrinologist, and he said he wants to know why am I still lactating, even tho my prolactin levels are normal. He wrote a referral to my Doctor, to send me to the Gynecology for further investigation.

    Long story short, my Doctor had no clue about what to say to the Gynecologist. I asked her to call my Endocrinologist, but she got nervous and said that costs too much money and she has no time for that now. Wow, thanks.

    So I left and called the Gynecologist myself and explained the situation, and they said that they don't do this kind of investigation on men. They referred me to the Radiology Breast Center. Once I called there, they also said they are not familiar with something like that, and that I should clear up with my Endocrinologist what kind of tests he wants.

    I called his office again, and they explained that I should get check for breast disease. So I guess, based on that I already had an Ultrasound recently, there's only mammography left, for which it is again 6 weeks waiting period.

    Nerve wracking

    Does anyone know if there is any other possible connection with lactation, besides the high prolactin levels?

    I can't seem to find anything on that. Just this types of statements, with no further explanation.

    "In males, galactorrhea may be associated with testosterone deficiency (male hypogonadism) and usually occurs with breast enlargement or tenderness (gynecomastia ). Erectile dysfunction and a lack of sexual desire also are associated with testosterone deficiency."

    This is getting so frustrating, that every "step forward" takes 4-8 weeks time and yet, nothing really changes.
    Last edited by Bjorg89; 10-24-2019 at 10:32 AM.

  25. #65
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    Fiskevatten is online now Associate Member
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    Damn brother, you are sure going thorugh some tough shiet! But cudos for staying on path, it will be worth it in the end!
    We have the same or worse waiting here as well, and all "experts" are faaaar from experts.

    I haven't heard anything that follows the lines of what you have, and I don't think you have any disease.
    My 2 cents are that the "situation" you are in has developed issues that will be reversed ones they know what is causing it.

    I don't know what you economical situation is, but there are clinics in other parts of the world that work only with this
    and nothing else.
    Thailand where I usually live has started several clinics solely on mens health regarding hormones.
    The hormonal treatment isn't THAT expensive incl tests/ supervision (about 300 - 2000 usd pharma and legal, much less generic),
    but I can't utter myself regarding X-rays and special clinics for certain tests.
    Big hospitals are always expensive, but all in all it will be much much cheaper than in western countries.
    Some even let you do test that your insurance can pay by writing something else (e.g. accident).

    Might be worth looking into, I'm going there January
    Last edited by Fiskevatten; 10-25-2019 at 02:12 PM.

  26. #66
    Bjorg89 is online now Junior Member
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    Hey bro, yeah it is quite of a struggle.

    I had more success in the end of the week tho. I made a lot of calls myself, tried clearing the things with the endocrinologist and went yesterday again to my personal doc.

    She had a better day this time and when I explained with whom I talked and what they said and came with the piece of paper with the phone numbers and names, she was pretty polite and called and made appointment for me at the urology and radiology.

    She managed to get the urologist in 10 days and radiology for December. I was ok with the 10 days, but not so much with the December. Then I decided to try my luck and went there, where I had the Ultrasound recently, and they, unbelievably, took me immediately and did mammography.

    The doc said it is nothing carcinogenic, and that I can relax in that matter, but that was all I got from him. The more detailed results should come to my doc in few days.

    So something is happening after all. I just need to wait few more days and see what's next. I will try convincing the Urologist to prescribe me something regarding my low T.

    I also checked my Prolactin levels yesterday and it was 8,3 ng/ml (2,5-17 ng/ml), so it went from 3,5 to 8,3 in 14 days, but they also squeezed my boobs pretty hard just few hours before, so that could have had some impact. And it is still in the range, so I guess no need to worry yet. Maybe it is just looking for the "sweet spot".

    If there is nothing new till January, I will join you there, hehe
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  27. #67
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    AWESOME bro! Happy for you!
    A few steps in the right direction!

    And if you join me in January, we'll have other diseases to worry about^^
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  28. #68
    Bjorg89 is online now Junior Member
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    Hey,

    so yesterday I had an appointment with Urologist. No success whatsoever. I mean, he was kind and we talked, but he said that my testosterone is in range and that he can't/is not allowed to prescribe me TRT. When I asked about other possible treatments, he said there aren't any. Among other things, he said that I'm focusing too much on the Testosterone and that I should just forget about it and live my life positively. In other words, his opinion is that this became a psychological problem. He was more of a psychiatrists than urologist. So there's that


    Diagnose from the mammography:
    Most likely drug-induced gynecomastia . Correlating to the ultra sound, about 1 cm of gender-atypical glandular tissue parts are found in retromamillary. There is no infiltration of the pectolic fascia, no malignancy-sensitive microcalcium.

    From my understanding, they are blaming the cabergolin, because there is nothing else they can grab on.

    So in the end, I am not getting any real help from the doctors, no one answers my questions here anymore and I am not sure how to self medicate. I guess I hit the wall pretty hard

    I still have a few "simple" questions tho, if there's anyone willing to share their opinion.

    1. Would/could nolva help for the gyno?
    2. Better Nolva or Nolva/Clomid for trying to combat low testo and gyno at the same time?
    3. Maybe HCG /Arimidex for some time and then Nolva/Clomid? Kinda PCT style.

    I know that T injections would presumably do the work immediately, but I think windex already advised me against it few posts ago. I guess it's better to try and recover other way, without shutting the HTPA even more with testosterone.

    Really unsure what, but definitely sure that I want to do something, because otherwise nothing will change.

    Cheers

  29. #69
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    I don't have the same level of Expertise as Kelkel but I wouldn't touch an AI, I don't think that's going to solve anything long term.

    What's your financial situation ? The path of least resistance would just be surgery and getting it cut out.

    You could try Tamoxifen + Clomid for 30 days but I'm not sure how far it will help. At the end of 30 days if there is no improvement you'd know that surgery is the last option.

    I would ask Kelkel or Austinite or another HOF'er about Toremiphene and Triptorelin.

    Torem is less potent than Tamoxifen but has a different pharmokinetic mechanism of action. If I remember correctly it's about a 3:1 ratio, meaning 60mg of Torem is roughly equivalent to 20mg of Tamoxifen.

    Once you sort out the chest issue, then you are likely going to want / need an HRT program. I don't want you to get too far ahead, but this is roughly what I would recommend for HRT AFTER everything is fixed, and only if HRT is applicable.

    25-40mg Test 3x per week
    30-40mg Masteron 3x per week
    25mg DHEA before bed with last meal
    5000IU Vitamin D3, split into 2 meals AM/PM
    250IU HCG 3x per week
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