stronger = bigger ?

[HOLLYWOOD]

ok just wanna clear something up! alot of people say that when training with one rep max hypertrophy will not come into play, but say if your bench went from 275lbs to 315lbs would there not be an increase in size of the muscle used to push the weight???

[t-money]

That is the theory that 'mass moves mass'. To a certain extent it is very true, you have to have more muscle to move more weight. However, genitics and fiber types come into play also. I believe that to become bigger and stronger, a well planned periodized training program and nutrition should be implemented.
I know plenty of guys who are bigger than me yet much weaker, and I also know smaller guys who are stronger...go figure. Not everyone has the same fiber make-up in their muscles.



T

[HOLLYWOOD]

That is the theory that 'mass moves mass'. To a certain extent it is very true, you have to have more muscle to move more weight. However, genitics and fiber types come into play also. I believe that to become bigger and stronger, a well planned periodized training program and nutrition should be implemented.
I know plenty of guys who are bigger than me yet much weaker, and I also know smaller guys who are stronger...go figure. Not everyone has the same fiber make-up in their muscles.



T

i hear ya bro!
what's program look like???

[Gorgoroth_]

If hypertrothy equated to overall strength Ronnie coleman would be dominating the powerlifting scene as well as the bodybuilding scene ...

[HOLLYWOOD]

If hypertrothy equated to overall strength Ronnie coleman would be dominating the powerlifting scene as well as the bodybuilding scene ...

but does ronnie coleman not workout like a powerlifter! like one working set of like only 3 reps???

[Gorgoroth_]

but does ronnie coleman not workout like a powerlifter! like one working set of like only 3 reps???

Sometimes he does - he is called a " Power builder " . He was a powerlifter long before he was a body builder.. I have clips of him deadlifting 800 for 2 and squating 800 for 2 .

[Ultimate]

the thing is it depends... more muscle doesn't always = more power. of couse having more muscle means you have more muscle to help out but in most cases with people who can lift a lot with less muscle has to do with the nervous system and how many muscle fibers your nerves can comand when trying to move the weight... 1 reason why Dbol , drol, anavar and other increase muscle strengh before muscle mass comes into play. Since they boost your CNS signals into stronger signals...

[JoeCoffee]

Bigger does NOT mean stronger, the guy that I train is 5'10" and weighs 163lbs. and benches well over 300 with his 16" (little) arms, which is really good for his size.

[IronReload04]

If hypertrothy equated to overall strength Ronnie coleman would be dominating the powerlifting scene as well as the bodybuilding scene ...

he could dominate what ever he chose. he chose bodybuilding. he is stronger than an assload of powerlifters at such a low bodyfat

[IronReload04]

ok just wanna clear something up! alot of people say that when training with one rep max hypertrophy will not come into play, but say if your bench went from 275lbs to 315lbs would there not be an increase in size of the muscle used to push the weight???

this is one way of looking at it

F=ma a simple phsyics equation force=mass(acceleration)

working at a 1 rep max will increase the accleration part of the equasion more so than higher reps and so on..higher reps increasing the mass part. middle of the rode reps, maybe a little of both. when it all comes down to it, who the hell knows

[HOLLYWOOD]

so absically your best bet would be to use a method of periodization...

[Mighty]

F=MA doesn't work for this equation. People always try and find a way to fit it in but it just doesnt apply, because the most important factor is completely left out of the equation......Leverage.
With proper leverage you can move alot more weight. Alot of it is genetic, some of it is technique.
Don't believe me? on your 1rm try to move each hand outward 1 inch and see what happens, or dont tuck your elbows in, etc.
Mighty

[Dude-Man]

If he were to set his mind to it i'm sure he could.

If hypertrothy equated to overall strength Ronnie coleman would be dominating the powerlifting scene as well as the bodybuilding scene ...

[HOLLYWOOD]

If he were to set his mind to it i'm sure he could.

i totally agree! the guy is pushing 200lbs dumbells for 12 reps... think about that for a second

[phwSSJ]

strength is all about how well you can recruit motor neurons and how many muscles per motor unit.
Muscle size is obiously important but strength is not all about muscle size.

Thats why you have some little dudes that can lift a lot.

They say that the first 2-6 months of exercise your body's nervous system is doing more adaption than the muscles!

So taking in stuff that is good for the nervous system is alwas a good idea.

[phwSSJ]

the thing is it depends... more muscle doesn't always = more power. of couse having more muscle means you have more muscle to help out but in most cases with people who can lift a lot with less muscle has to do with the nervous system and how many muscle fibers your nerves can comand when trying to move the weight... 1 reason why Dbol, drol, anavar and other increase muscle strengh before muscle mass comes into play. Since they boost your CNS signals into stronger signals...

yyyyyup!


Read that again cuz what the man said is very true!

[weightshead]

there's a big difference between being powerful, being strong and being big. But they are interelated to an extent.

For novices to intermediates the quickest way of getting stronger and more powerful is getting bigger. however there is a point of diminishing returns - for example if you get too heavy your deadlift will suffer.

Once at the intermediate stage your going to make gains better from power or strength specific training. If you dont train heavy singles your 1RM isnt going to be at its best. if you dont train sets of 6 reps your 6 rep max isnt going to be at its best etc...

Then there's things like olympic lifting, which are arguably 50% power and 50% technique - the only way you'll improve these lifts is practice practice practice.

for an interesting article on power vs strength read: http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/power-training.html

Some factors of strength (from the top of my head):
muscle cross sectional area
central nervous system utilisation
muscle composition (ratio of types of fibres)
location of muscle inserts
biomechanics of an individual (limb length etc)
strength of tendons
psycological barriers

you'll notice that the correct training can alter many of these factors.

[Kärnfysikern]

I think they key is not to compered different people to eachother. Lengt of bones, where the muscle ties in ect makes alot of difference.

But I think its pretty safe to say that if YOU become stronger you WILL(if its not only strenght gained because you learned better form in the movement) become bigger. Thats what doggcrapp is preaching and his training sure does work to pile on mass.