Mike Miller's squat depth

**Velkar182** · 10-21-2005, 01:00 PM

I haven't extensively seen Mike Miller lift, but I 've seen about 4 or 5 videos including his "1200 squat." I think he is paying jugdes off or something. I have yet to see the guy break parallel. Am I alone? I've seen him do a 1000 box squat also, but he had the box about half of a foot above parallel.

**RJstrong** · 10-21-2005, 04:45 PM

I understand where you going with this... but I am convinced we are all better served by supporting our fellow lifters rather than knocking their achievements. whether or not it was a good or bad call, to me is neither here nor there... good and bad calls are a part of sport (not just powerlifting) and I think we have to accept that. until the sport is technologically advanced enough to take humans out of the equation errors can be made. I personally would love to see the guy lift... and I would be the first guy there pulling for him!

**OldPLer** · 10-22-2005, 10:33 AM

I am a national judge in one of the many PL organizations and it is hard to tell from the videos I have seen if he is breaking parallel, his legs are so big it does make it difficult to judge. One thing for sure, he is strong.

***Doc.Sust*** · 10-24-2005, 08:29 AM

he never breaks paralell!!i have lifted at meet at Naz bar which he owns, and was talking to a friend of hisnd i quote"mike squat depth is always high" and this is coming from another bi name in our sport"i don't want to rat him out" also. www.irongame.com has a bunch of his squats all our high, but hell you look at other video's on that site, ALOT of people squat high, goggins, becca swanson, chuck V all have some questionable squats. seems to happen alot with the wpo bunch. also because of all the controversey, i am preety sure miller reoked that squat because of all the discrepensy.

**Velkar182** · 10-24-2005, 11:05 AM

Mr. Judge and RJ, I hate to be mean, but the leg thickness is a cop out and backing someone who hurts the sport is insane. And that is exactly what he is doing by getting 8 calls (that I have seen with my own eyes) for a good lift when the man's butt was easily 3 inches above parallel. If you can't judge that then you shouldn't judge. Not one person would ever question Ed Coan's biggest lifts, primarily because is but is one the ground when he goes down. I think the russians and east Europeans have it right when they practice squat depth and take that facet away from judging. Whether a rusian trained lifter comes up or not, at least you know 99/100 they went deep enough. In fact Miller got so much criticism about his bogus 1200 squat that he denounce the lift and refused to let it stand. Hey, do you wanna see a 23 yo University of Pitt under grad take 1150 and do a half squat?! Just ask and I'll do it any day and twice on sunday, and maybe you'll call it a lift and give me the world record. The fact of the matter is that if you gave me, a mid 700 squatter, the world record it would be about as fair as giving Miller the record. I guess the only thing separating me from the wr is the right kind of judge, not hard work and balls out training!

***Doc.Sust*** · 10-24-2005, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by Velkar182

Mr. Judge and RJ, I hate to be mean, but the leg thickness is a cop out and backing someone who hurts the sport is insane. And that is exactly what he is doing by getting 8 calls (that I have seen with my own eyes) for a good lift when the man's butt was easily 3 inches above parallel. If you can't judge that then you shouldn't judge. Not one person would ever question Ed Coan's biggest lifts, primarily because is but is one the ground when he goes down. I think the russians and east Europeans have it right when they practice squat depth and take that facet away from judging. Whether a rusian trained lifter comes up or not, at least you know 99/100 they went deep enough. In fact Miller got so much criticism about his bogus 1200 squat that he denounce the lift and refused to let it stand. Hey, do you wanna see a 23 yo University of Pitt under grad take 1150 and do a half squat?! Just ask and I'll do it any day and twice on sunday, and maybe you'll call it a lift and give me the world record. The fact of the matter is that if you gave me, a mid 700 squatter, the world record it would be about as fair as giving Miller the record. I guess the only thing separating me from the wr is the right kind of judge, not hard work and balls out training!

and the right organization. hey i don't liekt he equipment but it is hear to stay, and if double ply suits are legal, thats fine, canvas, thats fine too. you compete using drugs, hey not my bussiness , go ahead, but then ontop of all this you start letting the rules really slack, it is a disaster. i like to see lifters achieve, but not like that, it has to be at least arguably parallell. the video i saw, no argument, wasn't close to parallel

**Squatman51** · 10-24-2005, 02:19 PM

i watched some of the videos at irongame.com and his squats looked questionable from the front....its hard to tell from the front but it looks like he may need to go down another inch or so....by all means that is a helluva lot of weight though even if he barely went parallel

***Doc.Sust*** · 10-24-2005, 02:21 PM

Originally Posted by Squatman51

i watched some of the videos at irongame.com and his squats looked questionable from the front....its hard to tell from the front but it looks like he may need to go down another inch or so....by all means that is a helluva lot of weight though even if he barely went parallel

it is a hell of alot of weight, just looks too high!! i wish i could say i was wrong, but it is what it is

**Squatman51** · 10-24-2005, 09:44 PM

Originally Posted by Doc.Sust

it is a hell of alot of weight, just looks too high!! i wish i could say i was wrong, but it is what it is

yea i know what your sayin... they shouldnt the lift to him just because he is mike miller

**RJstrong** · 10-24-2005, 11:40 PM

please explain to me how Miller is hurting the sport... and if backing a fellow powerlifter is insane... call me crazy!

**powerliftmike** · 10-25-2005, 09:52 AM

I agree, but hell I can't even quater squat 1200!

**Squatman51** · 10-25-2005, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by RJstrong

please explain to me how Miller is hurting the sport... and if backing a fellow powerlifter is insane... call me crazy!

hes not hurting the sport....he cannnot say if the lift is good or not thats the judges job in which they seem to suck miller off sometimes, im not sayin its his fault, congrats to him

***Doc.Sust*** · 10-25-2005, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by RJstrong

please explain to me how Miller is hurting the sport... and if backing a fellow powerlifter is insane... call me crazy!

what it does is it makes others records look less valid. i am all about guys breaking records with better equipment but imagine if they gave big Gene the 1005 press and he didn't touch his chest??!!! same thing, or the gave bolton the 1003 deadlift for budging the weight from the floor but didn't complete the lift??pandimonium!!! it is not millers fault, but the ipa just lets people get away with murder especially there favorites. if we let the rules completely vanish then we don't have a sport. if the squat was questionable, great give it to the man, but from what i saw or anyone with 20/60 vision saw it wasn't a lift.

**Velkar182** · 10-26-2005, 11:06 AM

It is hurting the sport in exactly the way Doc has described. I am no judge, but I have been in the sport 8 years and I know when a lift is good or not. Miller went for 1150 at Nazareth PA and was virtually laughed at by a real judge who commented that "he (Miller) is strong as hell, but he's got about two inches to go before he can even make it questionable." The fact is that guys like him make me feel as though we need laser pointers to establish the depth for each lifter before they do the weight. If they break the laser pointer at the bottom, then it won't be a question, right? If Miller does lifts that are bull$hit, then it is cheating if he gets the white lights.

**RJstrong** · 10-26-2005, 01:52 PM

it hurts the sport or he hurts the sport there is a difference in my opinion and originally you stated that it's insane to back someone who hurts the sport... can't have it both ways. are you saying the organization is biased or the judges are? sounds to me like big Mike isn't the problem... and all I'm saying is we are better served supporting a lifter rather than dogging him out... if what you said is true that he doesnt even count the lift, than he did the noble thing... sounds like the type of guy I would support... and how come I have this feeling that if you ever met big Mike the first thing out of your mouth would not be "hey, your squat sucks and your bad for the sport" I guess this internet sh*t talking just pisses me off... and like Doc Sust hates the "how much do you bench" threads and think they are pointless I feel like this type of thread falls in the same category!!!

**OldPLer** · 10-26-2005, 02:07 PM

PL has changed, alot, some is equipment, actually alot is the equipment and the 20, 30, or 40 organizations out there. I am not saying it is better or worse, I have my opinion and I do not judge any more because some of it involves each organization wanting to have the strongest lifters and sometimes pressure makes that happen, most judges are not paid, only hotel room and food is paid, it is done because they enjoy the sport. Miller is super strong and I have never seen him lift except on vids and those are from front. Judging is not as easy as it appears and with 8 people around him spotting that massive weight it is easy for someone to move a little and a judge loses that one little spot where he could see. All these things play a part. IMO

***Doc.Sust*** · 10-26-2005, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by RJstrong

it hurts the sport or he hurts the sport there is a difference in my opinion and originally you stated that it's insane to back someone who hurts the sport... can't have it both ways. are you saying the organization is biased or the judges are? sounds to me like big Mike isn't the problem... and all I'm saying is we are better served supporting a lifter rather than dogging him out... if what you said is true that he doesnt even count the lift, than he did the noble thing... sounds like the type of guy I would support... and how come I have this feeling that if you ever met big Mike the first thing out of your mouth would not be "hey, your squat sucks and your bad for the sport" I guess this internet sh*t talking just pisses me off... and like Doc Sust hates the "how much do you bench" threads and think they are pointless I feel like this type of thread falls in the same category!!!

i do hate those threads so f'n much!!!!!growl!!!!!

***Doc.Sust*** · 10-26-2005, 03:44 PM

Originally Posted by RJstrong

it hurts the sport or he hurts the sport there is a difference in my opinion and originally you stated that it's insane to back someone who hurts the sport... can't have it both ways. are you saying the organization is biased or the judges are? sounds to me like big Mike isn't the problem... and all I'm saying is we are better served supporting a lifter rather than dogging him out... if what you said is true that he doesnt even count the lift, than he did the noble thing... sounds like the type of guy I would support... and how come I have this feeling that if you ever met big Mike the first thing out of your mouth would not be "hey, your squat sucks and your bad for the sport" I guess this internet sh*t talking just pisses me off... and like Doc Sust hates the "how much do you bench" threads and think they are pointless I feel like this type of thread falls in the same category!!!

i have met miller, trust me he is one angry guy! just seems always pissed off. he is bigger than life and ill tempered. i was at one of his meets and one of his kds kept screwing around with the volume on a stereo and he screamed at the girl (STOP F'CK WITH THE MUSIC OR ELSE) OR SOMETHING VERY SIMILAR TO THAT and the entire crowd shut up when he yelled.

**RJstrong** · 10-26-2005, 04:23 PM

LMAO...

**Velkar182** · 10-26-2005, 04:28 PM

All I am saying is that some judges are on his band wagon in a way that makes him look like the calls aren't based on whether the lift was good, but based on either the fact that it is MIller, or some arrangement, because god knows he hasn't come within an inch of parallel. Like I said, at Nazareth, PA (I think it was on September 11) he went the same depth as always with about 1155 and he didn't get the lift. He turned down 1200 because he was the laughing stock. I know my buddy Horse was there and said that the only person who thought it was a lift was the group of judges. Maybe someone should sponser the "Miller Instant Replay" just so the judges have no excuses for making bad call when Miller is lifting. Heck I went only parallel with 630 a year or so ago and I wasn't given the lift. My lift was meaningless compared to Miller's "1200" and you think they should let it stand. If Miller's reputation wasn't at stake, he wouldn't have overturned his own lift. The judges weren't going to do it! The validity of every record before would have been flushed down the toilet if he let it stand. That;s why Miller was ridiculed and the ridicule made him overturn the call, not the fact that he is someone looking out for the best interest of powerlifting.

***Doc.Sust*** · 10-27-2005, 01:32 PM

lets just agree to disagree and all of us just let this one go, there is no right answer or statement to this one, it is what it is,oppinion.

**Velkar182** · 10-28-2005, 11:22 AM

I don't mean to beat a dead dog, but I hope you don't mean that squat depth is a matter of opinion.

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