Need Help!!!

[Kana]

hey, i havebeen traning with the West side barbell programm for about 6 months and it has helped my quite a bit, but i would like to start doing regular squats and really intense heavy lifting, but not like bodybuilding.

the west side method uses the conjugate method meaning that u do excercises that work the same muscles as the squat but never the squat.

has anyone had sucess with other powerlifting programs, if so could u plz post them for me to see?

[Kana]

also a program including the bench and what ever else

[Velkar182]

How long have you been lfting? Are competitive or intend to be? What are your stats. When starting out generic programs give adequate results but as you become more experience gains are harder to come by, but as you go along you find things that your body responds well to. So background is inportant.

[Kana]

i am 215 lbs, i currently bench 275, squat 355 and dead 465. i have competed in a few comps and have improved each time through assistsance excercises (as stated in the WSB programs) this is why i would like a program that is more about the 3 lifts but also including assitance work for each workout

[Velkar182]

Doing WSB style should have kicked your Squat up to around or higher than your DL. In my experience WSB is great for squat and prolonged training on the DL WSB style kills your pull. Some guys lose on the DL. If I were you I would google a bunch of things like German Block training, Russian programs, check out routines put together by Scandanavians, really anything you can find. Heck, even look at Arnold's encyclopedia. You should probably use wave training to see how you respond to that. Wave training is very simple in principle. You move percentages up and down weekly in an attempt to hit your current maxs for a double or triple in say week 8 or 10. What you do is start the first week with say .6 to .7 of your max on core lifts (on the bench perhaps) for 5 sets of triples. Week two you move from .65 to .6. Week three you move to .7, four .65, five .75, and so on.
Three days a week you will do either squat, bench or DL. On a fourth day of the week is sort of a bastard day, or fun day. You can pick and choose a assistance work. You'll definitely want to hit tries and delt, maybe some extra back and abs. Whatever you need. bis even
It is also good to do speed training along with your workouts. In fact, you may want to go lighter on the deadlift days, say two working sets, and 5-6 speed sets. And focus on hamstrings early in the cycle and do stiff legs and hamstring curls.
You can set it up how you want but this would be my first week of say the bench (to give you and idea)
Monday: Squat
Tuesday: rest

Wednesday:Bench
warmup/stretch
Negatives on bench (115% max) 2 sets 2 resp
Lockouts on bench (115% or more) 3 sets 3 reps (Keep in mind gear really matters, this is more or less for a single ply bencher)
Pause Bench (pause for 1 mississippi) 3 sets 3reps with .65
Speed Bench 3 sets 3 reps with .45-.5 (wave this % also)
rotator work
db military press 5 sets 10 reps
tri extentions 5 sets 10 reps
forearm work

Thursday: DL
Friday: rest
Saturday: Assistance workout (Maybe one in the morning and at night)
Sundayff

[Velkar182]

If you want to try a wave training cycle, I just wrote one for my brother. I could post it if you want. He's been training for two years. He's 15 and he's 5'3 205 and his numbers are 455-195-365 raw. I figure you two probably have the same level of experience so it will probably help.

[kdawg21]

What do you mean by never squatting? Under the west-side program you should be doing Dynamic effort squats 72 hours after your Maximal effort lift. That means you will be squatting at least once a week. Box squats, Inverted band/weight releaser squats and zerchers are just a few of the movements they use to vary the program on maximal effort days. I just recently read an article where Louie Simmons was discusing isometrics in conjunction with squat training.

[Velkar182]

I completely read over that. No squats? there is no deadlifting, but there should have been a crap load of squatting.

[kdawg21]

Velkar, why are you putting your maximal effort any dynamic effort bench on the same day?

[Velkar182]

You can do it. Especially in the begginning when the percentages are low. You are not really doing maximal effort on the core lifts such as the pauses. I have found good results come from doing negative and lockouts before anything else (in the first weeks of wave training). It is not to say that putting Max Ef and Dyn Ef on the same day always works, but it does here.

[kdawg21]

But if the percentages are low then why bother with anything other than DE work.

[Velkar182]

Pleanty of reason. It is CNS progressive, meaning you are teaching your CNS to handle progressively heavier weights. There is also something about wave training and starting low which allows optimal myofibril break down and recovery. Many younger guys think the only thing that is going to make you push bigger weight is pushing bigger weight. That is not the case. In my experience guys that do this get worn down and injured, especially if they do it without gear for protection. Look at how the russians train. They have an average intensity of 78% of their max as they go into competition for the bench, but they train it 4-8 times a weak. There are alot of ways to get stronger and the more experienced you are, the more likely it is that you tried a technique. Especially for younger guys who know nothing about the CNS, it is important to coerce the electrical system of the body to be more efficient. Most importnantly I also admire Lou Simmon's point that no one has perfect form. Sometimes I will go and do and extra workout for one of the big three lifts and just work on technique. When the percentages are low, it is time to get better with technique. You sure as hell aren't going to do it with 95% on the bar. Some of the things I might suggest seem weird but I've been around a while, so I am not completely full of shit.