RJ and DocSust,please read

[cmillett]

I have 2 meets coming up the first one is about 10wks out and the second is 3wks after the first,I know we talked about routines for me in another thread concerning my shift work (24hrs work,48hrs. off)I have been training westside with good results,
day1
bench MEffort,declines 5x5,DB inclines 3sets of 10-12,and tri,s
day 2
SQ/DL MEffort,box squats 5x5 or 8x3,DL lockouts from bottom pin 5x5 leg presses 4-5 sets of 8-15 reps,and DB shrugs
day 3
off (at work)
day 4
off
day 5
bench medium heavy,something like 5x5 and some other aux.work and tri's
day 6
off,at work again
day 7
SQ/DL medium heavy,usually start off with sumo DL's for 5x5,and finish up with some deep squats for 5 sets of 10,then some aux. work like shrugs and stiff legs

and thats the rotation, bench,sq/dl,off,off,bench,off,sq/dl,off,off,and so on,I like my workouts to be intense followed by some hyper work(got to have some blood in the muscle).This routine has given me my best natural gains so that tells me that it would be great with aas also.when I'm not training for a meet or right after a meet my routine goes like this, bench,back(lat and trap work only no DL's),off,squat,bench,off,back,squat.I don't do any dls during this program for the reason that I don't want to over train my lower back,this routine also helps me train those lagging muscle groups that I did not isolate during my heavy training in the first program.Well this is what I've been doing since Jan. of this year it has put abou 20lbs. on my natural bench and about 100lbs. on my SQ and 50lbs. on my DL.I want to try something different for these 2 meets coming up but my instinct is telling me to stay with what I'm doing,I just don't like the feeling of loosing muscle volume in the first program but the strength gains tell me thats what it takes.Let me know what you all think.
cmillett

[Doc.Sust]

so wait , let me ask you this, you are not doing ANY full ROM deadlifts? if so that is a huge mistake, i totaly disagree with westsides "squat to deadlift" approach to deadlifting, what happens is, yes it may work for a while. but after time, you squat will increase and you dead will just lag behind, name one great deadlifter form westside,besides chuck V? there arent any, and IMO chucks form is terrible and it showed in videos i saw form the arnold classic werei saw the guy hitch the SHIT out of 805 and was given 3 white lights.

also with westside, you need to rotate your movements and your auxilaies, to me it doesnt look like you are doing that at all, it looks the same wk to wk.

[cmillett]

so wait , let me ask you this, you are not doing ANY full
ROM deadlifts? if so that is a huge mistake, i totaly disagree with westsides "squat to deadlift" approach to deadlifting, what happens is, yes it may work for a while. but after time, you squat will increase and you dead will just lag behind, name one great deadlifter form westside,besides chuck V? there arent any, and IMO chucks form is terrible and it showed in videos i saw form the arnold classic werei saw the guy hitch the SHIT out of 805 and was given 3 white lights.

also with westside, you need to rotate your movements and your auxilaies, to me it doesnt look like you are doing that at all, it looks the same wk to wk.

Yes I do train full range of motion DL,sumo to be exact,I change them up every other ME day.
If you don't mind DocSust.,what would you train like if you had my shift work (24hrs. at work and 2 days off).I get plenty of sleep and eat great at work.We just don't have the time or equip. to train right on duty,This is the only other routine I can think of,
day 1
squat
day 2
bench
day 3
off
day 4
DL
day 5
Aux.
day 6
off
day7
same as day 1
The only thing I don't like about this routine is that it only puts 72hrs. in between my Squat and DL days,I'm scared that will be hard on my lower back,Let me know whta you think.
I sure wish I had the chance to work out with one of you,I've learned a lot just reading what you all have covered.

[RJstrong]

first off let me say good luck on your contests... and I think you are definitely on the right track as far as your training goes. if it seems things are really working for you I would suggest riding out what your doing until you instinctively know it's time to change... I like to make up stuff as I go a lot of times by adding a exercises here or changing some volume there but always sticking to the 3 lifts in some variation. I know I over-analyze my training often always looking for improvement... that's good that's what you want! The main 2 keys are simple really... master technique on the big 3 and relentlessly press to go heavier as long as you're doing that you will put up big numbers in both your meets. once again brother good luck train hard and I hope to see white lights and big numbers from ya!

[cmillett]

first off let me say good luck on your contests... and I think you are definitely on the right track as far as your training goes. if it seems things are really working for you I would suggest riding out what your doing until you instinctively know it's time to change... I like to make up stuff as I go a lot of times by adding a exercises here or changing some volume there but always sticking to the 3 lifts in some variation. I know I over-analyze my training often always looking for improvement... that's good that's what you want! The main 2 keys are simple really... master technique on the big 3 and relentlessly press to go heavier as long as you're doing that you will put up big numbers in both your meets. once again brother good luck train hard and I hope to see white lights and big numbers from ya!

Thanks RJ,I'll post my results as soon as I get back from them.One more Q ,would you think the second program I posted would be to much work and not enough recovery time for my lower back (72 hrs, between my Squat and DL days)?

[Doc.Sust]

Thanks RJ,I'll post my results as soon as I get back from them.One more Q ,would you think the second program I posted would be to much work and not enough recovery time for my lower back (72 hrs, between my Squat and DL days)?

it can be done, i have done routines where you have 48 hours rest between the 2 lifts. it can be done, 72 hours is alot better than 48 hrs.

also i re read the your program, andi see you are deadlifting, i dont know how i missed that.

like rj said, if the program isnt stale, and you are still making gains, stick it out, changing it up 10 wks before a meet could be trouble, especially if you arent sure about your recuperation time btwn the squat and dead. if i would cahnge anything it woul be just to rotate in different auxillary lifts theat are specific to your weaknesses, and of course keep hammering away at the core lifts. i dont how you plan to do another meet 3 wks after the first, my advice to you is to deload a second time and not to try to get trigh back in the gym and go balls out liifting heavy since you will already be burned out from the first contest. do you know about or how the deloading phase works?

[cmillett]

it can be done, i have done routines where you have 48 hours rest between the 2 lifts. it can be done, 72 hours is alot better than 48 hrs.

also i re read the your program, andi see you are deadlifting, i dont know how i missed that.

like rj said, if the program isnt stale, and you are still making gains, stick it out, changing it up 10 wks before a meet could be trouble, especially if you arent sure about your recuperation time btwn the squat and dead. if i would cahnge anything it woul be just to rotate in different auxillary lifts theat are specific to your weaknesses, and of course keep hammering away at the core lifts. i dont how you plan to do another meet 3 wks after the first, my advice to you is to deload a second time and not to try to get trigh back in the gym and go balls out liifting heavy since you will already be burned out from the first contest. do you know about or how the deloading phase works?

To be honest I have no idea how to deload bro,and also I've decided to go with the six day splits instead of the westside splits that I've been training,
this is it ,
day 1
squat me
day 2
bench me
day 3
off
day 4
Dl de
day 5
aux./ bench speed/de
day 6
off
day 7
same as day 1

what would you advise to do on day5 ? so far as for my bench,I was planning on doing most of my shoulder work on that day after 4 sets of close and reg. bench at 40-50% of my raw max.

[Doc.Sust]

if you are following westside on speed press day you do more lat and tri work after speed bench and lat and rear delts, dont do front delts, i just read an article by louie saying how it will burn out your press, you get enough front delt form the push movements
asfar as deloading goes, comd the archives at www.elitefts.com, check out the exercise index, i just saw a sticky on how to deload with the press, i amsure they have an explanation for squat and dead too

[Doc.Sust]

quickly, deloading is a phase you use rt before a contest so you dont burn out and peak early. here is how i deload, it is alot more simple than westsides approach,4 wks out, if i was using bands or chains,i would drop the tension dramaticaly, 3 wks out i go up to 90-95% in my core lifts(stop going balls heavy 3 wks out, if i was using bands or chains i would stop using them completely at wk 3 and if for some reason i did decide to do some band work, it would be with the most minimal tension as possible, no more than mini or light bands or one set of chains) 2 wks out i drop the weight on the core lifts to light speed work not exceding 60%, the wk after(contest wk,) i do crap, i dont lift a thing until saturday when it is meet time. i know idiiots that use 90% abd above on contest wk and at the meet , they stink and there lifts are awful. you will not get stronger 3 wks out from a meet, you have to deload proeperly to save your best lifts for the meet, dont leave your best lifts in the gym, bring them to the platform!!!!!! now this is how I deload, westside is different, but same concept, i dont believe in following westside to a tee, this is what works for me and i learned it by trial and error, everyones inividual need may be sligthly different so feel free to tweak your own personal deload phase. the whole point is tostart tapering off the weight a few wk beofre the meet and not working max effort 2 wk before the meet

[cmillett]

Sounds alot like what I already do about 3-4 wks out freom the meet.I usally hit my last ME workout on the big 3 about 3 eks before the meet and stick with about 85-90% for 5x5 on my promary lifts,but so far as sets on my aux. day 5 in my new program,how many sets do you recommend.I was tyhinking about 4 sets of 10 at 50-60% doing the 1st 5 reps with close grip no board and the last 5 reps standard grip.