5x5 training,

[Doc.Sust]

i keep hearing about this, what does the 5x5 look like for powerlifting, can somebody post the routine?

[JohnboyF]

It's a great routine doc .. IV used its mix of PL and BB

[JohnboyF]

I'll do my best to try and remember all the elements that make the program work.

The premise of the routine is progressive overload, meaning that every week you are putting increasing amounts of stress on the muscles, generally through small increases in the amount of weight used. The progressive overload forces the body to grow to adapt to the increasing amounts of stress, even though the body really isnt training to failure.

The routine consists of choosing a heavy compound exercise to use for each bodypart, these can include, squat, deadlifts, bench press, close grip bench, standing barbell curls, military press, etc. On top of the initial 5x5, you also choose 2 other exercises, and aim to do 2 sets on each, of 8-10 reps per set.
Here's a sample routine
Chest
Flat bench 5x5
incline dumbell press 2x8-10
incline flyes 2x8-10

The key for me when using this routine is to start light, at weights that you can easily nail your reps and concentrate on form. For example, say you can bench 225lbs for 8 reps, start with 195lbs on the bar. This should be easy, but if you keep your reps slow and in control, you will still get a good pump and have a good workout. Next week, bump up the weight by a SMALL increment, remember the key is to be able to keep adding weight, it's not a race to get to the massive poundages. If you add too quickly you will plateau in a hurry and the routine wont do jack for you. So you hit 5x5 on 195, next week its 200, the week after 205, etc. When you get to a point where you're starting to have trouble hitting your reps, add something extra to help, if you're natural, thats when I would throw in creatine and whatever else as this will help you keep adding weight. If you dont get all 5x5, then do not add more weight next week, stick with the same and the odds are you'll hit it next time you try.

This routine is very effective as it targets fast twitch muscle fibres(5x5) as well as slower twitch(8-10reps) all in the same workout. Generally when done correctly you can gain lots of size as well as some pretty incredible strength all at the same time. I'm only a bodybuilder and dont give a rat's ass about strength, but have hit lifts (ie, deadlift 550lbs for 5 reps) that would allow me to compete as a powerlifter.

Eventually no matter what you are doing or what you are on, the strength gains will come to an end. What I have found worked well for me was when I couldnt add more weight to the 5x5, I switched over to 5x3 instead, and was able to keep adding weight. The beauty there is that as you keep adding weight past where you were stuck on the 5x5, that weight you were stuck on will feel like a joke when you go back to it as you were just lifting more, albiet for less reps.
Here's an example I used when my squats went stale. I had been stuck on 405lbs for a while, but just couldnt get all my sets so that I could add more weight, so heres what I did.
week 1 410lbs 5x3reps
week 2 415lbs 5x3reps
week 3 420lbs 5x3 reps
week 4 425lbs 5x3 reps
week 5 430lbs 5x3reps
week 6 435lbs 5x3 reps
then back to 5x5
week 7 405lbs 5x5(now this felt really light after 435lbs)
week 8 410lbs 5x5
etc.......
But this time when I finally plateaued again, I was squatting 445lbs for 5's. Notice the weight increases were very small, percentage wise it was almost nothing, but see how it added up. When I first started the 5x5 routine back in the day, I was squatting 225lbs for 5x5, and since then the program has allowed me to put over 200lbs on my squat, and about 4" on my quads

I forgot to mention, I dont think this approach will work for calves as you need a higher rep range

No, not all 5x5 are to failure, the first couple you should have to work for and get a good pump from, but they wont be to complete failure or you wont have a chance of getting all your sets. What tends to happen with me is a set feels pretty close to failure, but after a rest of 3-4 minutes, I can hit the next set easily enough. I do take to 8-10 reps to failure though

when supersetting I wait that minute or so between every set, so a set for bis, wait 1-1 1/2 minutes, do a set for tris, and so on.
On the 5x5 I rest 3-4 minutes for say squats, but on most others, including deads I superset with another exercise same as with arms. For the 8-10 ones, usually around 2 minutes, but I cut that lower and lower as I progress through the workout

I wear a watch so I keep the breaks consistent, this way I know that if I go up in weight or anything then it wasnt because I rested longer. Its during the 8-10 sets that I start cutting the rest times down

I've got my body split into 4 days, which leaves me with 3 rest days per week

Day 1 chest/calves
Chest- see earlier post
standing calve raises 5x15

day 2 back/shoulders
military press 5x5
side laterals 3-5x8-10
deads 5x5
chins 2x8-10
shrugs 2x8-10
rows 2x8-10
bent over laterals 2x8-10

day 3&4 rest

day 5 bis/tris
close grip bench 5x5
standing barbell curls 5x5
weighted dips 2x8-10
incline dumbell curls 2x8-10
skull crushers 2x8-10
preacher curls 2x8-10

day 6 legs
squats 5x5
leg press or hacks 2x8-10( I dont do any more exercises for quads as I dont need to)
stiff legged deads 2x8-10
leg curls 2x8-10
seated calve raises 5x15
abs - weighted static holds

day 7 rest

It's pretty rare that I change the 5x5 exercises as there really arent that many good mass building exercises. For tri I sometimes switch close grip with weighted dips(but frankly I dont want to add any more weight to my dips), maybe switch military press with dumbells, etc... But there is no substitute for deads and squats, and using a bar instead of dumbells on stuff like bench or curls give me more freedom to add whatever amount of weight that I want, instead of having to go up 5lb per side every time
__________________

[JohnboyF]

Day 1 chest/calves
Flat bench 5x5
incline dumbell press 2x8-10
incline flyes 2x8-10
standing calve raises 5x15

Day 2 Back/Shoulders
military press 5x5
side laterals 3-5x8-10
deads 5x5
chins 2x8-10
shrugs 2x8-10
rows 2x8-10
bent over laterals 2x8-10

Day 3&4 rest

Day 5 Bis/Tris
close grip bench 5x5
standing barbell curls 5x5
weighted dips 2x8-10
incline dumbell curls 2x8-10
skull crushers 2x8-10
preacher curls 2x8-10

Day 6 Legs
squats 5x5
leg press or hacks 2x8-10( I dont do any more exercises for quads as I dont need to)
stiff legged deads 2x8-10
leg curls 2x8-10
seated calve raises 5x15
abs - weighted static holds

Day 7 rest

[Iron-man]

Hers is a link to Bill Stars 5x5. It's pretty comprehensive

http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow...ile%20Download

[simm]

I tried the 5x5 and started growin like a mofo!! Seriously 12lbs in 1 month at 270lbs bwt

[Doc.Sust]

thanks for the help gents, the billstar one was the one i was looking for , thanks ironman.

[Doc.Sust]

I'll do my best to try and remember all the elements that make the program work.

The premise of the routine is progressive overload, meaning that every week you are putting increasing amounts of stress on the muscles, generally through small increases in the amount of weight used. The progressive overload forces the body to grow to adapt to the increasing amounts of stress, even though the body really isnt training to failure.

The routine consists of choosing a heavy compound exercise to use for each bodypart, these can include, squat, deadlifts, bench press, close grip bench, standing barbell curls, military press, etc. On top of the initial 5x5, you also choose 2 other exercises, and aim to do 2 sets on each, of 8-10 reps per set.
Here's a sample routine
Chest
Flat bench 5x5
incline dumbell press 2x8-10
incline flyes 2x8-10

The key for me when using this routine is to start light, at weights that you can easily nail your reps and concentrate on form. For example, say you can bench 225lbs for 8 reps, start with 195lbs on the bar. This should be easy, but if you keep your reps slow and in control, you will still get a good pump and have a good workout. Next week, bump up the weight by a SMALL increment, remember the key is to be able to keep adding weight, it's not a race to get to the massive poundages. If you add too quickly you will plateau in a hurry and the routine wont do jack for you. So you hit 5x5 on 195, next week its 200, the week after 205, etc. When you get to a point where you're starting to have trouble hitting your reps, add something extra to help, if you're natural, thats when I would throw in creatine and whatever else as this will help you keep adding weight. If you dont get all 5x5, then do not add more weight next week, stick with the same and the odds are you'll hit it next time you try.

This routine is very effective as it targets fast twitch muscle fibres(5x5) as well as slower twitch(8-10reps) all in the same workout. Generally when done correctly you can gain lots of size as well as some pretty incredible strength all at the same time. I'm only a bodybuilder and dont give a rat's ass about strength, but have hit lifts (ie, deadlift 550lbs for 5 reps) that would allow me to compete as a powerlifter.

Eventually no matter what you are doing or what you are on, the strength gains will come to an end. What I have found worked well for me was when I couldnt add more weight to the 5x5, I switched over to 5x3 instead, and was able to keep adding weight. The beauty there is that as you keep adding weight past where you were stuck on the 5x5, that weight you were stuck on will feel like a joke when you go back to it as you were just lifting more, albiet for less reps.
Here's an example I used when my squats went stale. I had been stuck on 405lbs for a while, but just couldnt get all my sets so that I could add more weight, so heres what I did.
week 1 410lbs 5x3reps
week 2 415lbs 5x3reps
week 3 420lbs 5x3 reps
week 4 425lbs 5x3 reps
week 5 430lbs 5x3reps
week 6 435lbs 5x3 reps
then back to 5x5
week 7 405lbs 5x5(now this felt really light after 435lbs)
week 8 410lbs 5x5
etc.......
But this time when I finally plateaued again, I was squatting 445lbs for 5's. Notice the weight increases were very small, percentage wise it was almost nothing, but see how it added up. When I first started the 5x5 routine back in the day, I was squatting 225lbs for 5x5, and since then the program has allowed me to put over 200lbs on my squat, and about 4" on my quads

I forgot to mention, I dont think this approach will work for calves as you need a higher rep range

No, not all 5x5 are to failure, the first couple you should have to work for and get a good pump from, but they wont be to complete failure or you wont have a chance of getting all your sets. What tends to happen with me is a set feels pretty close to failure, but after a rest of 3-4 minutes, I can hit the next set easily enough. I do take to 8-10 reps to failure though

when supersetting I wait that minute or so between every set, so a set for bis, wait 1-1 1/2 minutes, do a set for tris, and so on.
On the 5x5 I rest 3-4 minutes for say squats, but on most others, including deads I superset with another exercise same as with arms. For the 8-10 ones, usually around 2 minutes, but I cut that lower and lower as I progress through the workout

I wear a watch so I keep the breaks consistent, this way I know that if I go up in weight or anything then it wasnt because I rested longer. Its during the 8-10 sets that I start cutting the rest times down

I've got my body split into 4 days, which leaves me with 3 rest days per week

Day 1 chest/calves
Chest- see earlier post
standing calve raises 5x15

day 2 back/shoulders
military press 5x5
side laterals 3-5x8-10
deads 5x5
chins 2x8-10
shrugs 2x8-10
rows 2x8-10
bent over laterals 2x8-10

day 3&4 rest

day 5 bis/tris
close grip bench 5x5
standing barbell curls 5x5
weighted dips 2x8-10
incline dumbell curls 2x8-10
skull crushers 2x8-10
preacher curls 2x8-10

day 6 legs
squats 5x5
leg press or hacks 2x8-10( I dont do any more exercises for quads as I dont need to)
stiff legged deads 2x8-10
leg curls 2x8-10
seated calve raises 5x15
abs - weighted static holds

day 7 rest

It's pretty rare that I change the 5x5 exercises as there really arent that many good mass building exercises. For tri I sometimes switch close grip with weighted dips(but frankly I dont want to add any more weight to my dips), maybe switch military press with dumbells, etc... But there is no substitute for deads and squats, and using a bar instead of dumbells on stuff like bench or curls give me more freedom to add whatever amount of weight that I want, instead of having to go up 5lb per side every time
__________________

great info!!!wow!!very comprehensive and very useful! i appreciate your help

[Iron-man]

thanks for the help gents, the billstar one was the one i was looking for , thanks ironman.

No problem, glad I could help!

IM

[tuffboynyc]

In a 5x5, are you supposed to increase the weight within the set, or do the same amount for all 5? I've heard both ways and am wondering which is better.

[JohnboyF]

great info!!!wow!!very comprehensive and very useful! i appreciate your help

No problem man.. the least i could do for u. and i'm glad it helped. It's a great program if ur bulking or have a good diet u get some very nice gains. Best of both worlds

[Doc.Sust]

In a 5x5, are you supposed to increase the weight within the set, or do the same amount for all 5? I've heard both ways and am wondering which is better.

seems the answer is both according to the bar star advanced 5 x5 training

[Phildude]

In a 5x5, are you supposed to increase the weight within the set, or do the same amount for all 5? I've heard both ways and am wondering which is better.

I have always heard same weight, I have heard your 8 rep max. When I started doing 5x5, my maxes went way up compared to how fast they've been going up before. My 5x5 was sort of like Fez's.

[JohnboyF]

seems the answer is both according to the bar star advanced 5 x5 training

What iv done is do the weight all the way through. You should start at weight were u will only get 5 reps. Every week ur supposed to increase 5lbs .

[godkilla]

5x5 kicks ass