I can't stop getting stronger, lol

[Midwest Viking]

Well, I don't mean to sound like an ass, so I hope nobody takes this the wrong way, but for me, there is no better training than my training. (as I said, for me)
anyway
I have been off cycle for about a month now, and I have lost the water weight, and I have lost bodyfat, but I have not only kept my muscle mass, but put on more, and am still getting stronger on a weekly basis.
As a matter of fact, I am seeing an average increase of 5 lbs on bench press, 20 lbs on deadlift, and 20 bs on squat, every 10 days.
For example, I do my workouts not by days of the week, but by number of days. I do bench press one day, then rest a day, then do deadlift and squat. I do bench press every 5th day, and deadlift and squat every 5th day.

Two bench workouts ago (10 days ago) I did this for bench press
135x5
225x3
255x3
275x2 (failed attempt at 3rd rep)
285x2
295x1
300xmiss

then, 5 days ago, I did the exact same thing

but, today, I did the same sets, but achieved my 3rd rep on 275, and achieved 300...

But this is not the only time this has happened. As I said, this is actually common enough, that I have come to expect it. I will keep going until I fail an attempt, then, I will attempt it the second workout, and always fail again, but every time, without fail, on the 3rd workout, I achieve what I previously failed twice at.
It happened with 285, 290, 295, and 300.

Does anyone else see results like these?

[cmillett]

OK,that sounds alot like me a couple of yrs ago,Doc Sust will agree if he remembers my posts back then,
But any how there are logical reasons for your progress and some personel exp.,I'll try my best too explain my thoughts,

1. (I have been off cycle for about a month now, and I have lost the water weight, and I have lost bodyfat, but I have not only kept my muscle mass, but put on more, and am still getting stronger on a weekly basis)

Ok,you made gains threw your entire cycle training in the 90% range and youndid not crash your CNS due too the effects of the aas.

2.(As a matter of fact, I am seeing an average increase of 5 lbs on bench press, 20 lbs on deadlift, and 20 bs on squat, every 10 days.
For example, I do my workouts not by days of the week, but by number of days. I do bench press one day, then rest a day, then do deadlift and squat. I do bench press every 5th day, and deadlift and squat every 5th day.)

Ok,on this you have a new max on your lifts due too the aas cycle,so now nthat you are off your CNS will only be able too handle the weights in the 90% range for a max of 6 wks (for me more like 3 wks),

I dont see nothin wrong with 5 day splits,you might want too incorperate board work on one of those bench days and do your raw work on the other day.
5 day split
1st Bench day
raw %
2nd Bench day
speed work
Brd work

As for your SQ and DL,if you want too keep your 5 day split with these,train SQ on one day and the DL on the other,and alternate primary lifts for the SQ and DL,example,for the SQ Low Boxs for 2 workouts then high boxs the next SQ day,then train for speed or volume for your SQ as a secondary, For your DL ,pull from the floor for 2 DL days then pull from the rack for 2 DL days,on the racks i would follow with some light speed pulls,the DL is a tricky thing too master when trying too make strength cains when you have met your god gifted max.
example.
5 day split

SQ day
low box

DL day
rack pulls
speed pulls (light)

SQ day
low box

DL day
rack pulls
speed work (light)

SQ day
High box
raw speed work or volume

DL day
from the floor

and so on

Bro all this info is from my personell exp training a 5 day split,I trained exactly the same way you described,the only way your going too make gains training like that is too avoid crashing your CNS,and you can do it by doing something like i described.

[cmillett]

The Doc,will most likely have better thoughts than mine

[Midwest Viking]

Well, all my training is raw. I do not use any type of shirts or suits, I do not use any kind of wrist wraps or knree wraps, I do not use chalk for any lift, all I use is a belt for deadlift and squat.

My current split is like this (I change it up every so often)

Day 1:
Flat Bench
135x5
225x3
255x3
275x3
295x1
300x1
275x3
255x6
225x10

Incline Bench
135x5
185x3
205x3
225x2
205x3
135x12 (doing 3 reps wide grip, 3 narrow, 3 super narrow, and the last 3 wide)

Shoulder Press
95x3
135x3
155x2
185x2
135x3

Tricep pressdown
180x5x5

Overhead Tricep Extension
20x6x5

And then on my deadlift and squat day I do this

Deadlift
135x5
225x3
315x3
405x1
435x1
455x1
475x1
405x5
315x15

Squat
135x3
225x3
315x3
405x1
425x1
445x1
455x1
405x1
315x3

Tbar Rows
45x5
90x5
135x5
180x5
135x5
90x12

Superwide Pullups
Bodyweightx6x5

As I said, I change it up from time to time, and I never train in equipment.

[cmillett]

man this was my avice from personell experiance,i've been training now for about 16yrs,i trained a 5 day split for about 4 yrs and just now started the traditional 7 day split using %'s and follod by WSBB work as sedndarys for the off season.

While i trained a 5 ay split it was also for raw lifts,but take my advice as you will,if thers one thing that i a treasure the most is that i've learned too leason to someones trial and error threw there training yrs.

[hauss man]

no chalk? thats very interesting.

[Doc.Sust]

Well, I don't mean to sound like an ass, so I hope nobody takes this the wrong way, but for me, there is no better training than my training. (as I said, for me)
anyway
I have been off cycle for about a month now, and I have lost the water weight, and I have lost bodyfat, but I have not only kept my muscle mass, but put on more, and am still getting stronger on a weekly basis.
As a matter of fact, I am seeing an average increase of 5 lbs on bench press, 20 lbs on deadlift, and 20 bs on squat, every 10 days.
For example, I do my workouts not by days of the week, but by number of days. I do bench press one day, then rest a day, then do deadlift and squat. I do bench press every 5th day, and deadlift and squat every 5th day.

Two bench workouts ago (10 days ago) I did this for bench press
135x5
225x3
255x3
275x2 (failed attempt at 3rd rep)
285x2
295x1
300xmiss

then, 5 days ago, I did the exact same thing

but, today, I did the same sets, but achieved my 3rd rep on 275, and achieved 300...

But this is not the only time this has happened. As I said, this is actually common enough, that I have come to expect it. I will keep going until I fail an attempt, then, I will attempt it the second workout, and always fail again, but every time, without fail, on the 3rd workout, I achieve what I previously failed twice at.
It happened with 285, 290, 295, and 300.

Does anyone else see results like these?

i hate to break it to you this happens to me every time i get off, 4 wks off, i dont see a loss in strength, but evetualy you will crash a littel the key to keeping your strength up is to change your routine to compensate your cns not recovering as fast as when you are "on". ways to do this is to drop a little volume and change up your routine often so you keep your body guessing(basicaly the premise of the westside training)

cmillet, you are write on the money, i agree w you 100%

[Doc.Sust]

man this was my avice from personell experiance,i've been training now for about 16yrs,i trained a 5 day split for about 4 yrs and just now started the traditional 7 day split using %'s and follod by WSBB work as sedndarys for the off season.

While i trained a 5 ay split it was also for raw lifts,but take my advice as you will,if thers one thing that i a treasure the most is that i've learned too leason to someones trial and error threw there training yrs.

are you traing westside with a 7 day split? explain please

[cmillett]

are you traing westside with a 7 day split? explain please

Ok Doc i'll try,
since i wont be competeing till next spring i've decided too work on my raw lifts,and split my sq dl days,its not a wsbb split,i'm just using a wsbb approach too my secondarys to maintain my equiped lifts.
for example,

the splits are performed in 8 wk waves with a week off after maxing before starting a new 8 week % wave.

%'s will start at 65%-90% on wk 6,mk 7 deload,wk 8 max

sunday-OFF
monday-SQ day
tuesday-bench assisstance day
wednesday-OFF
Thursday-DL day/upper back
friday-OFF
Saturday-Bench day

SQ day

primary-sq %
secondary-high boxs or maybe suited straps down,something that will let me work with more weigt than i can handle raw,more or less the top half of the lift,but what ever i choose will be rotated every 2 wks and stay around a reduced % from 90% for reps of 3-5 (80-85% 3x3-5)aka wsbb

assisstance

DL day
primary- dl % (from floor 1st 3 wks,then rack pulls the next 3 wks followed by speed work from floor,rest wk 7,max wk 8)

upper back work

assisstance

Bench day
primary-ryans %'s (witn some pausing in the 1st 3wks)
secondary-some brd work,or shirt work rotated every 2 wks keeping %'s under 90% for 3-4x3-5

Bench assisstance day
primary-CG at 50% for some volume 3x10-15 ( i know,wheres the speed work,well you can but i wouldnt if you are going too work on pausing on the previous bench day)

secondary-biceps/triceps 4-6x8-12

assisstance-shoulder rehab

Hope this is what you wanted Doc.,thers not a lot of work invoved most of the workouts dont last about 45-60Min.s after warmup,and with the secondarys changing up every 2 wks I feel like it is really helping, I will be finishing up my 1st wave next week i will post my #'s acheived compared too my previous max.

[cmillett]

keep us posted on your gains midwest,i know some of the stuff that Doc and i have said doesnt sound good,but i got the feeling you will see and learn what the CNS is here shortly

[Midwest Viking]

I appriciate all the advice.
I do try to change up my training from time to time, like every 4 or 5 weeks, I make small changes, like it the excerices I do, etc.
But every 4 or 5 months, I usually make a big change, Like I will go from doing alot of compound movements, and heavy weight, to using more isolation movements, with lighter weight and higher reps.

Although I did not initially like to hear what the Doc said, I know you know your stuff, and I appriciate the heads up.

I will keep you guys posted.

[cmillett]

Gl midwest,
its just an idea,but get you some bands (mini's),use them on your primary lifts for 2 wks then regular weight for 2 wks,that might help break up your work outs a little longer,and also will bring your raw strength up as well,just dont get hooked on using the bands all the time if your are going too be lifting in the 90% range evey wk.
You can use the bands every week if you use the periodzation method with the % modified for the band strength.

Bands have honestly hekped bring my raw lifts up

[Doc.Sust]

Ok Doc i'll try,
since i wont be competeing till next spring i've decided too work on my raw lifts,and split my sq dl days,its not a wsbb split,i'm just using a wsbb approach too my secondarys to maintain my equiped lifts.
for example,

the splits are performed in 8 wk waves with a week off after maxing before starting a new 8 week % wave.

%'s will start at 65%-90% on wk 6,mk 7 deload,wk 8 max

sunday-OFF
monday-SQ day
tuesday-bench assisstance day
wednesday-OFF
Thursday-DL day/upper back
friday-OFF
Saturday-Bench day

SQ day

primary-sq %
secondary-high boxs or maybe suited straps down,something that will let me work with more weigt than i can handle raw,more or less the top half of the lift,but what ever i choose will be rotated every 2 wks and stay around a reduced % from 90% for reps of 3-5 (80-85% 3x3-5)aka wsbb

assisstance

DL day
primary- dl % (from floor 1st 3 wks,then rack pulls the next 3 wks followed by speed work from floor,rest wk 7,max wk 8)

upper back work

assisstance

Bench day
primary-ryans %'s (witn some pausing in the 1st 3wks)
secondary-some brd work,or shirt work rotated every 2 wks keeping %'s under 90% for 3-4x3-5

Bench assisstance day
primary-CG at 50% for some volume 3x10-15 ( i know,wheres the speed work,well you can but i wouldnt if you are going too work on pausing on the previous bench day)

secondary-biceps/triceps 4-6x8-12

assisstance-shoulder rehab

Hope this is what you wanted Doc.,thers not a lot of work invoved most of the workouts dont last about 45-60Min.s after warmup,and with the secondarys changing up every 2 wks I feel like it is really helping, I will be finishing up my 1st wave next week i will post my #'s acheived compared too my previous max.

this makes alot of sense, when you said 7 day split i thought you were lifting 7 days!!! this is decent workout,seems like regular westside but raw

[Doc.Sust]

I appriciate all the advice.
I do try to change up my training from time to time, like every 4 or 5 weeks, I make small changes, like it the excerices I do, etc.
But every 4 or 5 months, I usually make a big change, Like I will go from doing alot of compound movements, and heavy weight, to using more isolation movements, with lighter weight and higher reps.

Although I did not initially like to hear what the Doc said, I know you know your stuff, and I appriciate the heads up.

I will keep you guys posted.

i know, no one likes to hear that news, but it does happen, the idea is to keep as the majority of the gains that youhave made until thenext cycle, if you can do this, you will get continualy stronger(with in reason)

[Doc.Sust]

Gl midwest,
its just an idea,but get you some bands (mini's),use them on your primary lifts for 2 wks then regular weight for 2 wks,that might help break up your work outs a little longer,and also will bring your raw strength up as well,just dont get hooked on using the bands all the time if your are going too be lifting in the 90% range evey wk.
You can use the bands every week if you use the periodzation method with the % modified for the band strength.

Bands have honestly hekped bring my raw lifts up

as well as the chains. both have done good for me and allow alot of variations

[cmillett]

this makes alot of sense, when you said 7 day split i thought you were lifting 7 days!!! this is decent workout,seems like regular westside but raw

I had a feeling you thought thats what i meant,its just some off season training,i like the 8 wk waves because you can see what works and what doesnt in a shorter time,vrs. a 10-12 wk wave ,prior to ME day.

Sorry for highjaking your thread Midwest

[cmillett]

asw ell as the chains. bit have done good fo me and allow alot of variations

LOL,forgot too mention thise.

[Doc.Sust]

I had a feeling you thought thats what i meant,its just some off season training,i like the 8 wk waves because you can see what works and what doesnt in a shorter time,vrs. a 10-12 wk wave ,prior to ME day.

Sorry for highjaking your thread Midwest

to be honest, i work alot of 3 wk waves into one giant12 wk M A C R O cyclefor a contest, otherwise, train in 6wk micro cycles with 3 wk waves

[Midwest Viking]

i just got done with a competition on the 12th. I competed all raw, benched an EASY 300, and wanted to go for more, but was denied my 4th attempt. Then i deadlifted 475 EASY, wanted to go for more, but again, no 4th attempt allowed. I competed as a teen, all raw, and weigh less than 200 lbs, and have now set the state raw bench press record in my class.

Feels good!

[Doc.Sust]

^^^^ great job! now i bet you are hooked

[MuscleScience]

What are your stats?

[Midwest Viking]

I am 5'10", and now weigh 195 lbs. I compete in the teen, 18-19, 198 lbs class. And I compete all raw.

[cmillett]

congrats on the meet

[akh 1985]

good job, especially in your first meet.

what fed did you compete in?

[Midwest Viking]

Well, it was not my first meet, it was my 4th. Last year, when I was 17, I competed in three small meets, three months in a row, but I weighed more, and only did 280 bench with a double ply rageX, and a 430 deadlift in MaxDL......
But this year, I wanted to compete all raw, weigh less, and lift more raw than I did in equipment before, and I got it.
This most recent competition was SLP (Son Light Power)

[akh 1985]

i think choosing to go raw for a while is a good choice.
i think building a strong base should be done before moving on to gear.

a few guys i have trained with started using gear almost right away.
now when they cant hit a certain weight or they hit a plateau their solution is a new shirt or suit

[Superhuman]

I've been 2 months off and I'm consistently getting stronger, perhaps because I've been training even harder to combat PCT loss and I JUST started an AWESOME new training regimen. I've lost 30lbs since my cycle though!!!!!!!! ARGH but most of it was fat and water

[Midwest Viking]

thats the best part, is when you lose weight, you look more lean and hard because of less water retention, and on top of that you are still getting stronger, thats just awesome.
plus, now you are pound for pound stronger than before.