Road Warrior Hawk - Talks about steroids in wrestling
Torch Talk Interview: Road Warrior Hawk, part three
Conducted by Wade Keller, Torch editor
Conducted November 22, 1992
Originally published in Torch Newsletter #205
The following is part three of a four–part "Torch Talk" interview series with Road Warrior Hawk conducted Nov. 27. In this "Torch Talk," Hawk discusses his candid feelings on steroids and Hulk Hogan. In next week's "Torch Talk," Hawk has some outspoken remarks about Bill Watts, reveals who he admires most in pro wrestling, and tells what he might do in the future other than wrestling.
Wade Keller: I don't know how much you want to get into any personal experience you have had with steroids, but have you ever had any side effects, either physical or psychological?
Hawk: No, because when I did steroids—past tense—I was under a doctor's guidance. All the doctor could tell you was how your liver and kidney were functioning and if they weren't functioning right, he'd tell you to get off.
Keller: You use the words "past tense." Was it tough to get off of steroids?
Hawk: No, not when it was a Class A narcotic. You just have to work harder in the gym.
Keller: Do you think a lot of wresters who got off steroids recently have had trouble getting off of them?
Hawk: I know that myself I was never psychologically hung up on them. It was a game. When you used them, you got gains. When you were off of them, if you got off—which a lot of guys didn't and is where you really start running a risks because you don't let your system recover—those guys who didn't get off are the ones who couldn't handle the decrease when the cycle ceased.
Keller: Do you think with proper cycling, steroids are not all that bad if one knows how to use them in cycles under a doctor's guidance?
Hawk: Let me answer your question with a question. Why does it say on every bottle of steroids made by the big companies, "This does not enhance athletic ability." That's a total lie. Let me ask you this question. As it became a Class A narcotic and the federal agents were very hot on them, where they became more consumed with steroids than cocaine, which is a much larger problem, all the black market steroids that were legit, where'd they come from? They came out of where they were produced. If the Feds wanted to get to the bottom line, seems pretty obvious to me all they had to do was infiltrate to see where they were coming from. Why hasn't that ever been discussed? Maybe the Feds wouldn't have a job then. You're trying to tell me if this country could defeat the fourth largest army in 14 days, that they couldn't employ the military to stop the flow of drugs into the country? It's a con, it's a work, there's a lot of money being made. That's my belief.
Keller: What do you regret most about your career in pro wrestling?
Hawk: What I regret is getting suspended that one time. But out of everything bad, something good comes. What I regret is watching life pass me by. I regret the lack of personal life.
Keller: You're 35 now?
Hawk: Just about.
Keller: Do you have any family?
Hawk: I'm divorced, no kids. There is no personal life when you're on the road 250 days a year.
Keller: Would you trade in some of the money and some of the fame that you've had over the last ten years for a lot more personal time?
Hawk: That's what I'm doing. I've walked away on guaranteed money on more than on occasion. I really don't regret anything. I've been very, very fortunate. But my qualms, my bitches, are that I've missed a lot in life, that a lot of it passed me by. It got to the point where I said, "Hey, there's more to it."
Keller: I don't know how often you cross paths with Paul Orndorff, but he told me the same thing about a year and half ago, that he regrets being on the road so often as his kids were growing up.
Hawk: I can't even imagine what that would be like. It's tough enough without kids.
Keller: What are your impressions of what Hulk Hogan did for the business—or to the business, as some people would suggest?
Hawk: He put it on the map as the Muhammed Ali. I know him personally. He's a great friend. He's humble, not big–headed. I've walked with him through airports. I've walked with a lot of entertainers and big names, but I've never walked anywhere with someone who received as much notoriety. His head is not blown up. He is my friend. He is honest. How in the hell can Billy "Superstar" Graham condemn him when Graham was one of the biggest abusers of steroids to the point where it crippled him. And you've got guys like Jesse Ventura who used to claim he never did them. Well, I worked down at his gym. That's just like when he said he played for San Diego State when he announced for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and it came out in the sports section that no Jim Janos or Jesse Ventura ever did. And he's gonna condemn Hulk Hogan? Wade, Hulk Hogan paid out of his own pocket for one of Billy "Superstar" Graham's hip replacements. What they are is disgruntled. They pissed their money away and they're gonna knock the business? It's not my generation's fault as a wrestler they're in the situation they're in. How can a guy who's guilty of taking steroids like the individuals I'm talking about condemn another one who did the same thing. It's like this. Society is pretty screwed up in it's thoughts. How many professional athletes gets busted with illegal drugs? The public immediately looks at that human as a criminal and a crumb and a scum. But the very next day one of his teammates can turn himself into drug treatment and he's a hero. They did the same thing.
Keller: A lot of criticism came for Hogan because of the Arsenio Hall Show appearance where he denied ever using steroids except for a couple times to aid in an injury. I got the feeling people got insulted with celebrities who protect their own career to an absurd level.
Hawk: Okay, but listen. Hogan was making movies when Brian Bosworth was on the football field. He was one of the first guys to get nailed for steroids. Do you believe his line that he took three anovar a week? You might as well take three aspirin. He did the same damn thing. The bottom line is, we all make mistakes, but that does not make you a bad person. Right now, if any athlete got busted for any illegal drug, the press would condemn them. But would they write about the charity functions he did? The crippled kids he visited in the hospital? The dying kids he visited in the hospital? Because I've done it. They don't write that because it doesn't sell newspapers. It's a cryin' shame. Hulk Hogan has visited dying children, he's gone out of his way more than anyone else I know, put wrestling on the map, has not changed, is not big headed, is a good person. But that's not looked at.
Keller: Ever since the string of bad publicity Hogan has received, there have been friends of his coming to his defense, such as you and Wayne Ferris, talking about the good side of Hogan and admitting his mistakes, but claiming the coverage of his good deeds were ignored.
Hawk: The good he did outweighs the bad. Who's he hurting if he did steroids besides himself.
Keller: The argument is, Hogan, by being pushed as a superhero with such megasize was encouraging kids to value massive size as a goal to be obtained and the only way to get that size would be through steroid use. And that was the argument that was made. And it wasn't just that he set that example, but then when given the chance to be honest about it on national television, he lied about it. It's a matter of being a role model and he made money off of that role model status. As a result, he should live up to the strict characteristics demanded of a role model.
Hawk: Then our biggest role model should be the President and whether he inhaled marijuana or not, it's a drug and he's running our country.
Keller: It's not even a matter of saying that because other people did wrong, that makes what Hogan did okay. I think people want to look at each case individually, right or wrong. Hogan placed himself in the public eye voluntarily by accepting promoter's money and booking dates, and who can blame him, but I think the point is, he also has to take the bad with the good, admit mistakes that were made and not make them in the future. But, obviously, when you're someone like Hogan, the impression I have from talking to different wrestlers is that the thought process centers on what can be done to further their current career path, not longterm implications. Is that the case?
Hawk: That makes sense, very much so.
Keller: Should the blame lie with the promoters who have given main event status to the steroid using wrestler?
Hawk: You're f–––in' right, it's the promoters. On one occasion, Vince McMahon said, "What do you want, you look great." Vince McMahon was never accused or proven that he did steroids, but I questioned his legal counsel to get up there and admit it. It's also the doctor's faults.
Keller: When the leaders of that business are encouraging it and making steroid use the pathway to the top, it's really that pathway to the top that the media and a lot of wrestlers and even Billy Graham—and you can question his motives—are cticising. Graham saw that the pathway to his success was paved by Vince McMahon. Admittedly, he was a pioneer and was the first one to really capitalize on it, so he paved his own path in a sense. But he sees that now.
Hawk: I'm proud of the fact that he learned from his mistakes. We all have. If you don't learn from your mistakes, I feel bad for you. But that doesn't make it right to condemn anybody else. There's a lot of guys who are condemning him, like Bruno Sammartino. How can he get up and condemn Hogan when I know for a fact his son did them. Steroids didn't help his son a bit because he didn't have the talent.
Keller: It's unfortunate that Sammartino's jealousy for Hogan's success interferes with what I believe is an otherwise sincere message.
Hawk: I've had good times and bad times, but never in my life will I badmouth. I will badmouth how promotions treat their talent and use their talent. I will badmouth how stooges are rewarded. I badmouth Vince McMahon for the fact that there were repeat offenders. You're supposed to get two shots and be out the door, but there were some who had more chances. I regret that some when they got nailed had a warning and some didn't. It's one way for everybody, and if it's not that way, it's wrong. You've probably heard stories of Ultimate Warrior quitting, but shortly before that he failed a urine test? Vince McMahon said, according to several wrestlers I talked to, "Somebody must have put something in his IcoPro." Let met tell you a story and I hope you print it. We all weaned off steroids. I got suspended for something else. When I got back from my suspension, and we're all weaning off steroids, Vince McMahon takes me aside—this is when they were making the transition from Dr. Daly to Dr. Pasqualli. Pasqualli had just come in, Daly was out, but did the last urine test. After getting suspended, how idiotic would it be for me to come back and within two weeks and get suspended again? And Vince McMahon took me aside and said, "Mike, as if your luck hasn't been bad enough lately. You tested positive for winstrol. I said, "That is impossible. I will tell you, that is not the case. I haven't taken a shot of any steroids for six months. I just got off a suspension. Do you think I'd be that idiotic." He said, "Evidently it wasn't injectables, it was orals." That's where he blew his cover because I know oral or injectable, it shows up the same. I said, "Hey, do you think I'm an idiot? They show up the same, oral and injectable. I'm not on either of them." It was one of his little mind games. It was to try to tame the tiger, to scare me, as he had done on many occasions. He insulted my intelligence, but he never won one verbal battle with me. And that's a fact. He said, "Well, you call Dr. Daly. See what he says." So I did. He said I tested positive. I said, "Let me tell you something, if I tested positive, then I took them. But that's impossible, because I didn't." It's like being accused of murdering somebody by strangulation and you're a quadriplegic. So Daly stuck to the accusation. So I go see Vince and he's sitting with the new Dr. Pasqualli. He asked what Daly said. I said, "He said I tested positive." I said, "That's impossible." Vince looked at Pasqualli, Pasqualli looked at Vince, and Pasqualli looked at me and said, "I've dealt with a lot of athletes. You look like you're telling the truth. I looked at your chart. Dr. Daly read it wrong." I think it was a mind game. I don't need that aggravation.
Keller: Were there other mind games going on with different styles of chart reading?
Hawk: Dr. Daly was an employee of Vince McMahon. I wasn't on winstrol, he says I was. That's part of the game. Daly was involved in the Olympic testing, the AAU Committee doctor. I know of wrestlers who say they were injected by Daly when they were competing in track. You don't think Dr. Pasqualli ever did steroids? He was a powerlifter. Jesse Ventura was a spokesman at one time for a national anti–steroid campaign. At that time I'm sure he was clean and more power to him. I used to work out in his gym. I was making no money and he discouraged me and every one of these guys who came out of Minnesota, saying we'd never make it. Why would you discourage anybody.? He claimed he wasn't on steroids. When I was on steroids and someone asked me, I'd say, "You're damn right, I'm on them." I've been around guys who are all juiced up and they say no, and I say, "What do you think, I'm an idiot?"
