Free Diet advice by Narkissos & Novastepp: Intro to Performance Nutrition 101

**ckyass** · 03-16-2009, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by *Narkissos*

Or maybe Nark has a full client load 7 days per week, so he replies in his spare time

-CNS

YOU GO GIRL! lolol

**Narkissos** · 03-16-2009, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by mg1228

Need some help with diet--new to this. Im 33 5'11 174 pounds bf is around 13-14% (can see top 4 abs). Trying to get to under 10% and add 8 to 9 pounds of muscle.

In what time-frame?

Diet previously was basically eat somewhat smart no junk food but basically ate what I wanted also bmr is about 2900 tdee used 1.6[/quote]

I think you have BMR and TDEE confused.

At any rate, what's your activity like?

You used the 1.6 multiplier, so I'm curious.

Originally Posted by mg1228

Here is my diet
meal 1- shake 3/4 cup oats with 1/2 cup skim milk cal 525 pro 61 ca 55 f 4.5
workout

...

Originally Posted by mg1228

pwo shake w banana along w some simple carbs ie 10oz gatorade oatmeal cookie

huh?

Originally Posted by mg1228

meal 3- 8oz chicken breast w cup brown rice cal 436 pro 51 ca 45 f 7

...

Originally Posted by mg1228

meal 5- 1 cup oats w 1 cup skim cal 380 pro 18 ca 65 f 6

huh? x 2

What are your goals again?

Originally Posted by mg1228

meal 6- 8oz chicken breast or 8 oz sirloin or filet w 1 cup brown rice and salad fat free italian cal 536 pro 55 ca 45 f 7 (filet or sirloin add 18g fat)

^^^In bold above: that's a huge discrepancy mate.

Originally Posted by mg1228

meal 7- shake 2 sc whey/casein mix w 1tsp flax seed cal 530 pro 48 ca 28 f 24

Where are you getting 28 grams of carbs from?

Originally Posted by mg1228

total cal 2407 pro 233 ca 238 f 49 not including pwo shake cal 350 p48 c6 f 2

You lost me buddy.

You listed your pwo shake as 48gr protein, 6gr carbs, and 2 gr fat... but you listed your pwo meal as:

Originally Posted by mg1228

pwo shake w banana along w some simple carbs ie 10oz gatorade oatmeal cookie

... What are the aggregate macros dude?

How does it skew the aggregate kcal total at the end of the day?

Originally Posted by mg1228

workout m/w/f this is a workout day--tues/thurs/sat cardio is 6 interval sprints at 60 sec. walk 2 min. elliptical--no pwo shake on cardio days or sun. Any advice is appreciated--

^^expanding on the previously asked questions:

How different is your kcal intake on non-training days?

Your diet is all over the place mate.

-CNS

**Narkissos** · 03-16-2009, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by ckyass

I took the time to read every page of this thread and put together a bunch of notes....Here ya go.....should make things slightly more simple.

-Carbs At the core of the diet? 45% of total calories.This shifts to 35% during times of carb cycling....but 45% at core.When stagnation is reached... either go thru a depletion phase, or implement carb cycling.Protein is kept constant during either protocol.
-Staying at a maintenance level for your LBM and adding cardio to a consistent weight training program is exactly what this kind of approach is based around, the performance athlete.
-Work with a <>20% caloric reduction on calculated TDEE while cutting
-Occasional pro/fat meal before bed, but that is in accordance with a period of fasting longer than normal.
-Don’t use fruits when striving for pure fat loss. stick to a very easy approach for weeks at a time. however, when training hard and looking for overall athletic performance, i will use fruits.
-Caloric expenditure should be highest when beginning a cut. It forces your body to adjust to a simple dietary approach as you manipulate your training regimen. So, keeping your cardio high and maximizing a high protein and high carbohydrate diet allows you to preserve muscle and improve strength. It also provides energy for training and cardio, and allows your body the opportunity to dissolve non-contributory tissue (fat). Further manipulation of a diet further along in fat loss, continues this process. So it wouldn't be needed now and you should rely on your dietary approach to propel you to that fat loss level.
-You shouldn't use zero carb days. I meant that when you are much leaner and nearing the end of your cutter it may benefit you to eliminate them in a couple meals.
-You want to keep carbs in every meal. So keep those levels steady. Figure how many carbs you want in your day, and divide that by your meals. I'm going to guess and say it should be around 240g. You will get all the fat you need from your lean meats. you don't need supplemented fat. Make every one of those meals a pro/carb meal and utilize the higher carbs to help you stay active and keep your glycogen stores at highest possible levels, allowing you to succeed in the gym.
-Remember the role of the pwo shake is to initiate recovery... by curbing catabolism
-Don't let fats exceed 20% of daily kcal allotment.
-Don't let fats drop lower than 15% of daily kcal allotment
-At any rate, I think you should stick to any changes you make to your diet or training for 6 weeks... and no less.
-The high day would be refeed kcals the medium day would be 25% less carbs than the refeed. The low day would be 50% less carbs than the refeed. The very low day would be 75% less carbs than the refeed.
-Keep protein and fat at the same amount tru-out a 'pure' carb-cycle

Hm... seems someone was paying attention

Nice note-taking mate.

I may have to add on to (and expand on) some of these when I write my cutting sticky

-C

**ckyass** · 03-16-2009, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by *Narkissos*

Hm... seems someone was paying attention

Nice note-taking mate.

I may have to add on to (and expand on) some of these when I write my cutting sticky

-C

hehe if half these guys just took the time to read it all they wouldnt have anymore questions

**mg1228** · 03-16-2009, 08:02 PM

Thanks for responding--meant no offense by the not monitoring comments--anyhow my goals are to atleast stay @175 and get to around 10% bf--I workout m/w/f with weights for 1-1/2. On t/th/sat I do cardio. The 28 carbs in the last shake come from the actual shake, it is nitro core 24(a blend of 10 different proteins) Dont know what u mean by huh? the discrepency in fat would be the diff between 8oz chicken & 8oz filet or sirloin, they usually contain 20-25 gr fat opposed to 4-5 in the chicken. pwo shake is 350cal pro49 carbs35 fat 2(that includes the banana) didnt add in the simple carbs--thay are oatmeal cookie cal 170 pro 7 carbs 26 fat 7---gatorade cals 80 pro 0 carbs 21 fat 0----the total macros on non-workout day is whats listed I would just add this pwo meal to it on training days m/w/f. non wo day totals cals 2407 pro 233 ca 238 f 49----wo day totals cals 3007 pro 289 ca 320 f 58.

**XD-9** · 03-16-2009, 10:54 PM

Originally Posted by *Narkissos*

Sweet.

As suggested above, change nothing until you plateau.

-CNS

Well, pretty much at that point right now. I have noticed that if I drop carbs pretty low, i seem to look much better. I lost some good weight at first with this current diet but then looked like I started to gain it back. Whenever I eat carbs my belly gets distended an it looks like I have made no progress. Still doing 30 minutes of cardio after lifting and 40 minutes on non-lifting days. Any suggestions?

**rebelwithoutacause** · 03-17-2009, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by *Narkissos*

Welcome aboard buddy.

103/112 to 300 lbs?

Hell.

We've got our work cut out for us.

Congrats.

Shit... that must suck ass.

Carnation instant breakfast?

I'm reading the product info now... and it's crap.

Too many carbs, barely any protein... It's a waste of your time.

Same as above... waste of your time.

Seems that dinner is your only sound meal for the day.

To start... you need an actual diet: UNoffical "How to Cut" thread and sample diet...

The most important thing is to get it done.

How much are you currently doing, and when are you doing?

How regularly are you currently training?

You base this on?

That's a really tall order... You're looking at a year's work.

Just under 2 lbs of fat per week = 12 months time frame.

2lbs/week does not even begin to account for plateaus.

My primary suggestion would be that you put together an actual diet.

Secondarily, set realistic goals.

Progress is never linear.

-CNS

Dude, Narkissos, you are the man! I know I have definitely come to the right place to get all of this started. I train at least 4 times a week currently, just for about a hour each time. I alternate between back, chest, arms, and legs, and focus on one area per day. My cardio, I do 5 days a week. I ride a bike for 30 minutes in the morning, with no food in me, then I do a light jog around the block in the evening for about 30 minutes. I'm currently researching hiit cardio, what do you think about this form of cardio? The fact that I have a high metabolic rate is based on that most of my life I have always been real thin, and because of my wrestling training, I know how to train, and cut weight real fast. But, this is a different type of scenerio, I know, we do have a lot cut out for us. And I'm happy that you said "us" as I will surely need a lot of support on this endeavor. I am currently looking into a solid diet through the link that you provided, and further help or questions will be greatly appreciated. Thanks Nark! Your awesome dude.

**Narkissos** · 03-17-2009, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by ckyass

Thanks man...i posted that awhile ago and took the time to read the whole thread which basically answered all my questions :-) Im enjoying this approach to cutting rather then the keto way....so far down 1.5lbs.

Good job buddy.

**Narkissos** · 03-17-2009, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by rebelwithoutacause

Dude, Narkissos, you are the man! I know I have definitely come to the right place to get all of this started. I train at least 4 times a week currently, just for about a hour each time. I alternate between back, chest, arms, and legs, and focus on one area per day. My cardio, I do 5 days a week. I ride a bike for 30 minutes in the morning, with no food in me, then I do a light jog around the block in the evening for about 30 minutes.

Sounds like a decent plan over all... You just need a real diet to add into the mix.

btw: When do you train shoulders? I don't see it listed.

Originally Posted by rebelwithoutacause

I'm currently researching hiit cardio, what do you think about this form of cardio?

Like all else, it works.

Some say it works better than other forms, particularly where localized substrate utilization is concerned.

I'd have to agree in this regard.

However, it isn't the end-all-be-all.

Do what you can handle at this point.

I can't fathom advising that a person who is 100 lbs overweight should start adding sprints (etc.) to their regime.

Joint trauma isn't enjoyable... trust me on that one.

Originally Posted by rebelwithoutacause

The fact that I have a high metabolic rate is based on that most of my life I have always been real thin

Scrap what you thought you knew about yourself and your metabolism.

You're older, and waaaaaaay heavier.

Your metabolism will be slower... your glucose tolerance WAY lower.

You are a different man, and as such your training and diet will have to be much different.

Originally Posted by rebelwithoutacause

and because of my wrestling training, I know how to train, and cut weight real fast. But, this is a different type of scenerio, I know, we do have a lot cut out for us.

I'm glad you recognize this.

I think your dietary approach should be like this:

Weeks 1-4: purely ketogenic diet
Weeks 5-12: targeted ketogenic diet
Weeks 13-24: low carb w/ weekly re-feed
Weeks 25-until: carb-cycling.

I can't design these diets for you... but I can link you to stuff you can read to get it done on your own.

Hit me with a PM so I can refer you to some links.

Then, post-reading, get back to me on this thread for tweaking.

Originally Posted by rebelwithoutacause

And I'm happy that you said "us" as I will surely need a lot of support on this endeavor. I am currently looking into a solid diet through the link that you provided, and further help or questions will be greatly appreciated. Thanks Nark! Your awesome dude.

np mate

-CNS

**Narkissos** · 03-17-2009, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by XD-9

Well, pretty much at that point right now. I have noticed that if I drop carbs pretty low, i seem to look much better. I lost some good weight at first with this current diet but then looked like I started to gain it back.

Don't confuse water retention with fat gain/retention mate.

Anytime you deplete carbs (re: 'drop carbs') and then reintroduce them, you'll hold water.

Water and fat are not the same thing.

You can't eat a meal and 'gain back' fat. It isn't a logical supposition.

That being said, if you are legitimately plateauing (again, i reiterate: 'legitimate', i.e. not of the mind) then it may be time to make some changes.

Originally Posted by XD-9

Whenever I eat carbs my belly gets distended an it looks like I have made no progress.

If you're getting distension, then it's time to look at the carbs you're ingesting... not just the amount.

re: the type.

Numerous times on this thread I've mentioned this.

Originally Posted by XD-9

Still doing 30 minutes of cardio after lifting and 40 minutes on non-lifting days. Any suggestions?

Let me review your previous posts.

-CNS

**Narkissos** · 03-17-2009, 12:02 PM

Re-visiting for updates:

Originally Posted by XD-9

Here is my new diet. I posted it in the diet forum but this one is tweaked just a bit more. I think it worked out pretty good for what I'm trying to do. I am using this diet to cut down to around 10-12% body fat. here are my current stats:

weight: 235
bf: 20%
Lean body weight: 188
BMR: 2216
TDEE: 3435
Cardio: 30 minutes post-workout, 45 minutes on Wednesday & Saturday

^^These were your earlier stats.

How have they changed?

What is your current weight and bodyfat percentage?

Originally Posted by XD-9

Here is my cutting diet as I have lined it out. I'm about 700 calories under TDEE. Any critiques appreciated!

Meal #1 kcals protein carbs fat
1/2 cup egg whites 60 12 2 0
2 whole eggs 140 12 0 8
1/2 cup oats 150 5 27 3
TOTAL 350 29 29 11

Meal #2
4oz. Tuna 200 44 0 2
2 slices ww bread 240 12 44 3
Total 440 56 44 5

Meal #3
8oz. Chicken breast 240 41 0 8
8oz. Red potato 165 4 39 0
1 cup broccoli 30 1 4 0
Total 435 46 43 8

Meal #4
2 scoop ON whey 260 48 8 4
1/2 cup oats 150 5 27 3
Total 410 53 35 7

WORKOUT

Meal #5 PWO
2 scoop ON whey 260 48 8 4
1/2 cup oats 150 5 27 3
Total 410 53 35 7

Meal #6
8oz. Chicken breast 240 41 0 8
1/2 cup brown rice 165 4 35 1
Total 405 45 35 9

Meal #7
1 cup ff cottage cheese 160 28 14 0
20g Almonds 120 4 4 11
Total 280 32 18 11

TOTAL KCAL protein carbs fat
2730 - 314 - 239 - 58

Drop the oats and bread... Drop kcals to 2300.

Take protein to 260 gr; carbs to 200 gr; fat to 50gr

I previously advised that you eat the same until you plateaued.

You were over-feeding at that point.

Now it's time to eat for your LBM.

Every two weeks have a refeed: 2900kcals

-CNS

**Narkissos** · 03-17-2009, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by restaurantYl

No a bit of joke, but this rocks

[garbage link]

Scamming piece of shit.

**rebelwithoutacause** · 03-17-2009, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by *Narkissos*

Sounds like a decent plan over all... You just need a real diet to add into the mix.

btw: When do you train shoulders? I don't see it listed.

I alternate shoulders when I do arms.

Like all else, it works.

Some say it works better than other forms, particularly where localized substrate utilization is concerned.

I'd have to agree in this regard.

However, it isn't the end-all-be-all.

Do what you can handle at this point.

I can't fathom advising that a person who is 100 lbs overweight should start adding sprints (etc.) to their regime.

Joint trauma isn't enjoyable... trust me on that one.

Ouch, I know what you mean, I'll start off slow and progress.

Scrap what you thought you knew about yourself and your metabolism.

You're older, and waaaaaaay heavier.

Your metabolism will be slower... your glucose tolerance WAY lower.

Your right about glucose. Good thing I don't like sugar or sweets.

You are a different man, and as such your training and diet will have to be much different.

I'm starting to figure this one out.

I'm glad you recognize this.

I think your dietary approach should be like this:

Weeks 1-4: purely ketogenic diet
Weeks 5-12: targeted ketogenic diet
Weeks 13-24: low carb w/ weekly re-feed
Weeks 25-until: carb-cycling.

I can't design these diets for you... but I can link you to stuff you can read to get it done on your own.

Hit me with a PM so I can refer you to some links.

Then, post-reading, get back to me on this thread for tweaking.

np mate

-CNS

Thanks Nark!! You have definitely given me a base to work up from. Your expertise is highly regarded.

**Narkissos** · 03-17-2009, 10:40 PM

I haven't posted any pics in a while.

Guess I should

Haven't done cardio in 3 years... Training between once and 4 times per week... depending on my client load.

Tell me what you guys think:

***T-MOS*** · 03-17-2009, 10:42 PM

Originally Posted by *Narkissos*

I haven't posted any pics in a while.

Guess I should

Haven't done cardio in 3 years... Training between once and 4 times per week... depending on my client load.

Tell me what you guys think:

Looking lean but thick !!!!

**Narkissos** · 03-17-2009, 10:45 PM

Originally Posted by *Narkissos*

Haven't done cardio in 3 years... Training between once and 4 times per week... depending on my client load.

A couple more:

Stats:

5'6" 200 lbs, 29" waist, 18" arms... calves are just about 18 as well...

I've been in maintenance (training and eating) for a couple years now, since my career-halting leg injury.

I think I may return to serious training and eating around the beginning of 2010.

May have to have my left knee scoped prior however.

Ah... no more hi-jacking now. Back to the thread

-CNS

**Narkissos** · 03-17-2009, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by T-MOS

Looking lean but thick !!!!

Thanks mate.

Took off about 10 lbs of muscle since the injury... because it was hard on the knee carrying 215 + lbs @ 5'6"

Even now @ 200 it's a bitch.

Rehabbing the knee has been an interesting process.

I have regained about 75% of the lost mobility and flexibility thus far... and as a result my legs, which were once my best body part, are rebounding with new growth... even though my calorie intake is relatively low.

I've been asked to return to competing... so I'll look at that for 2010... providing that i can put that 10 lbs of muscle i took off back on.

-CNS

**audis4** · 03-17-2009, 10:58 PM

Originally Posted by *Narkissos*

Noted.

Sweet!

When are we going to see updated pics?

And when the hell are you going to update your training log over on my forum?

I PMed you over there as well.

-CNS

coming back over buddy

I miss that forum!! I'll be getting on soon

**Narkissos** · 03-17-2009, 11:36 PM

Originally Posted by rebelwithoutacause

Thanks Nark!! You have definitely given me a base to work up from. Your expertise is highly regarded.

Np and thanks mate.

I sent you a very long email by the way... a load of reading material.

Let me know when you get it

Originally Posted by audis4

coming back over buddy

I miss that forum!! I'll be getting on soon

We missed you too.

Chester (Chest6) missed you the most lol

-CNS

**rebelwithoutacause** · 03-17-2009, 11:56 PM

Got it Nark, thanks!! I will read and get back to you on my diet, for tweaking purposes. Then, I will post pics and results so everyone can see what a mastermind you are.

**rebelwithoutacause** · 03-18-2009, 12:15 AM

Nark, quick question as I'm going through the reading material you sent me, how many cal do you think I should be consuming per day, and how many meals should I eat per day for optimal fat loss with my stats? This info will help me in obtaining a basis on which I can build my diet. Thanks in advance.

PT · 03-18-2009, 02:57 AM

looking lean and thick nark. i like the tatt's as well. all i have is the black ink as well, i dont like color

**VASCULAR VINCE** · 03-18-2009, 11:47 AM

nark buddy...do you feel carb loading for 1 day, 2 days or 3 is best before a show and why??? I pmed Ronnie Ronnie regarding this matter and he said it can vary amongst individuals but gave me a guideline to follow.

**peachfuzz** · 03-19-2009, 11:21 PM

6'3
240
13%
goal is to get to 10% or under while maintaining LBM.

according to Katch-McArdle my BMR is 2422 and my TDEE is 3754 (multiplier 1.55) this seems high to me and if thats the case my diet is way off. here it is...

Meal 1
2cups oatmeal
2 whole eggs + 4 whites (large)
Cal-532 Fat-19 Carb-52 protein-39

workout

meal 2 (postworkout)
whey isolate with maltodextrin (should i use a different carb source)
Cal-400 Fat-0 Carb-60 Protein-40

Meal 3
Brown rice and chicken bowl
Cal-542 Fat-10 Carb 67 Protein 37

Meal 4
2 cups oatmeal
5oz solid white albacore
Cal-410 Fat-7 Carb-50 Protein-38

Meal 5
32 gram protein shake in 8oz 2%milk
Cal-275 Fat-6 Carb-15 Protein-42

Meal 6
2 medium red potatos
8oz sirloin (or chicken breast)
asparagus
Cal-553 Fat-13 Carb-52 Protein-76

Meal 7
1 cup low fat cottage cheese
Cal-180 Fat-10 Carb-2 Protein-28

Totals
Calories-2892
Fat-65
Carbohydrates-298
Protein-300

what should i add, delete or switch?

also going to be pickin up some quinoa tomorrow what are your thoughts on it?

any input is appreciated.

**Phate** · 03-19-2009, 11:29 PM

i remember you mentioning something about fish oil megadosing, can you post the links or studies for that, or write out some info on it when you get a chance

**Narkissos** · 03-20-2009, 07:57 AM

Originally Posted by rebelwithoutacause

Nark, quick question as I'm going through the reading material you sent me, how many cal do you think I should be consuming per day, and how many meals should I eat per day for optimal fat loss with my stats? This info will help me in obtaining a basis on which I can build my diet. Thanks in advance.

At you current stats? (275@ 35% BF) 2000kcals... bump to 2600kcals every 14th day.

You're currently ingesting 4 meals... I'd suggest that you bump that to at least 5 meals.

400kcal/meal.

-CNS

**Narkissos** · 03-20-2009, 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by PT

looking lean and thick nark. i like the tatt's as well. all i have is the black ink as well, i dont like color

Thanks

I plan on getting a couple more... but I've been advised not to, particularly if I'm going to return to competing.

Originally Posted by VASCULAR VINCE

nark buddy...do you feel carb loading for 1 day, 2 days or 3 is best before a show and why??? I pmed Ronnie Ronnie regarding this matter and he said it can vary amongst individuals but gave me a guideline to follow.

It depends on the individual's approach to be honest... their water and electrolyte manipulation schedule for example.

Personally, I start loading 3 days prior to the show.

The first two days are the major loading days... the final day is just maintenance.

i.e. I assess my condition (or that of my clients) and I add carbs where necessary.

If i'm hella full... I only take in small bites of protein... because any more carbs will be counterintuitive.

-CNS

**Narkissos** · 03-20-2009, 08:45 AM