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09-28-2009, 07:34 PM #1241Junior Member
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damn VanTheMan, you eat alot in one sitting.
I can tell you one thing: nark's gonna tell you you need to spread your meals out more.
Even the most insane of bodies cant process much more than 60 g of protein and 60 g of carbs every 2-3 hours, let alone huge bowls of pasta like your eating in meal 2
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10-01-2009, 04:03 AM #1242New Member
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Body wraps are great for anyone who wants to improve, tone and tighten the look and texture of their skin, including people with loose skin from weight loss.
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Hi guys. Right now I'm fighting a chest/lung infection... and have been for the 6 days. All I'm able to do at present is lay on my back and stare at the ceiling... so I figured I'd update this thread.
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10-02-2009, 02:52 PM #1244
good idea
wheres nova?
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Hey Josh... I got your FB msg. Sorry for the delay.
I'm very unsure what you based your TDEE on @ 165 lbs.
Also... I don't think that 180 lbs (which is what 165 lbs LBM + 8 % BF would be) would look good on a 6'4" frame.
I think you should lean bulk personally.
I'm curious how long you've been training personally...
Why're you training this infrequently at this level of development?
What's your split look like?
3000kcals on weight-training days
2000kcals on non-training/cardio-only days
Personally, I wouldn't waste any cash on the glutamine.
ALCAR: 3 grams pre-workout.
Arginine, I'm not a fan of... you can leave your dosing as is.
Noted.
Pro + moderate-GI/GL carb + EFA post-cardio.
No need for high-GI carbs.
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40:40:20 pro:carb:fat
This is my base ratio.
It is further tweaked as needed... As proteins, carbs, and fat each need to be cycled, even the 'ideal' ratio is rendered redundant during different phases of macronutrient cycling.
See above.
Not in the manner that you're thinking, no.
Carb-timing diets have their place... much like keto diets, they're tools... not indefinite eating protocols IMO.
I prefer to spread all my macros equally over the course of the day... unless I'm using a nutrient-partitioning agent.
See above.
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10-03-2009, 08:24 AM #1249
Hi Nark.
Hope you are on the mend.
I know I have asked for your advice before regarding my diet but I feel I jumped the gun and was not really in the right frame of mind. There was a lot that I did not understand but had no patience and did not know how to do it correctly. I was also trainning and taking steroids at the time when I knew that I should have been trainning naturally. Again,no patience. Things are different now. I have not been trainning for about a year,why,I am not sure really. I have lost almost any gains that I had made. Now I want to go back to basics and it is different this time,my partner is looking to get in better condition also so I think this will help drive me. I think this is where I failed, I had no-one to push me.
If you would be kind enough to help us,what information exactly would you like us to give you to begin with to help you with your advice ?
Thank's
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I'm still very ill... but I'm functioning. Thanks for the well wishes.
Noted.
I don't think that depending on someone else for motivation will be sustainable... but I hope it works out to your benefit all the same.
It'd be great if you guys can compile a sample diet for me to tweak to be honest... along with that, supply your stats and any other information that you see as being pertinent.
Thanks.
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10-03-2009, 12:38 PM #1251
wheres Nova?
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10-03-2009, 12:44 PM #1253
yes, and i thought u kept in contact with him
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10-03-2009, 03:10 PM #1254
OK,will do. The thing is at the moment we don't stick to any real healthy diet. I will get together our stat's and will arrange to have our bodyfat tested so that we can work out our maintenace calories. Should we use the harris benedict or Katch-McArdle formula to work out our maintenance calories as we are holding on to some fat ?
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10-03-2009, 11:32 PM #1255New Member
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10-06-2009, 06:07 AM #1258Female Member
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155 x .22= 34.1
120.9/2.2= 54.95
370 + (21.6 x 54.95) = 1556.92 BMR 2413 TDEE goal is 1900 calories...
i guess for sme meals wat the cals should roughly be. and i didnt inculde veggies in coz i make a soup so i dnt kno how much of each veggie im eating, but the soup is made out of 5 head of broccoli, 2 bags of spinach, 1 head of cauliflower, 1 yellow peper, 2 orange peppers and beef broth( low sodium) and then i puree it ( only way i will eat my veggies...)
so my cals are about 100 under wat they should bcoz im sure the veggies would bring up my cals and carb intake..
7:30 meal 1 -330cals/ 21.5 pro/ 11.5g fat/ 37carbs
1/2 cup oats - 150cals/ 2g fat/ 2 g protein/ 33 carbs
1/2 cup almond milk- 20 cals/1.5 g fat/ .5g pro/ 1g carbs
1tbsp natty peanut-butter- 100 cals/ 8g fats/ 5g pro/ 3 carbs
4 egg whites 60 cals/ 0fat/ 14g pro/ 0carb
ester C, dophilus plus, vitamin, b12,glutamine, ALA
---cardio--- ( i havent started this.. im buying a treadmill this week so i can do morning cardio )
10:00 meal 2- 248 cals/ 8.5g fat/ 26g pro/ 16 carbs
3 oz chicken- 100 cals/ 2 g fat/ 20 g pro/ 0 carbs
1slice ezekiel bread- 80 cals/.5fat/ 4g pro/ 15carb
almonds 10g - 68 cals/ 6g fat/ 2 pro/1 g carb or 1tsp walnut oil 60 cals/ 7 g fat/ 0/0
veggies
12:30 (sometimes 1:00)meal 3- 334cals/ 13 g fat/ 29g pro/ 22g carbs
1cup almond milk- 40 cals/ 3 g fat/ 1g pro/ 2g carbs
1 scoop whey- 119 cal/ 2g fat/ 23g pro/ 2g carbs
3oz banana 75 cals/ 0fat/ 0pro/ 20 carbs
1tbsp natty peanut-butter- 100 cals/ 8g fats/ 5g pro/ 3 carbs
ester C, dophilus plus, vitamin, b12,glutamine, ALA
1:00 ---wrk out----
2:30-3:00 a pwo shake meal 4 - 159 cal/ 5g fat/ 24g pro/ 4g carbs
1 scoop whey- 119 cal/ 2g fat/ 23g pro/ 2g carbs
1cup almond milk- 40 cals/ 3 g fat/ 1g pro/ 2g carbs
fish oil capsule
3:30(30-45min later)meal 5 - 370cals/ 10.5 g fat/ 38 g pro/ 34carbs
1/2 cup quinoa- 160 cals/ 2.5 fat/ 6 g pro/ 30 carbs
1 can tuna- 120 cals/ 0fat/ 30g pro/ 0carbs
2 oz avocado- 90 cals/ 8 fat/ 2g pro/ 4g carbs or 2 tbsp flax
veggies
6:30meal 6- 180cals/ 10g fat/ 20g pro/ 0carbs
1 boiled egg 50 g- 80 cals/ 6 g fat/ 6g pro/ 0carbs
4 egg whites 60 cals/ 0fat/ 14g pro/ 0carb
1tsp flax 40 cals/ 4g fat/ 0/0
fish oil capsule
veggies
ester C, dophilus plus, vitamin, b12, glutamine, ALA
9:30meal 7- 200 cals/ 30 pro/ 10 fat/ 0 carbs
4oz roast beef(cooked with extra virgin olive oil) -
veggies
1,781 cals
187.5 protein
56.5 fats
113 carbs (not including veggies)
any other supps u might recommend?Last edited by diamond; 10-06-2009 at 07:21 AM.
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10-06-2009, 02:52 PM #1259
Ok Nark,have got the ball rolling. This is where Im am at just now.
STATS- MYSELF PARTNER
27 y/o 23 y/o
191 cm 172 cm
217 lbs 161 lbs
? bodyfat % ? bodyfat %
NOTE- As you said,Katch-Mcardle formula will be used to work out maintenance Kcal's but as bodyfat has not been tested,we will be starting with 10 Kcal's per pound of bodyweight. Based on this my daily Kcal intake is 2170 and my partner's is 1610.
Just as i'm writing this I have just realised that I have not stated the gender of my partner and she is a female.
I am a little rusty Nark. I did have a diet for my self last year that you and Abbot helped me with but I have forgot how to breakdown my daily Kcal's maintenance level into pro,carb's and fat. I do however remember a little. Carb's are 45% of diet. These stay constant. Pro and fat can be adjusted. Carbs can be consumed in all meal's but last.
It's slowly coming back,just needing you to help refresh my memory. Thank's.
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Thanks for taking the effort to get it started mate.
The first step is generally the hardest.
Hit me with a PM let me link you to some material that should help you better guesstimate your bodyfat percentages.
In the meantime, let me deal with what's presented here.
Looks good to be honest.
I figured... that's why I opted for the lower end of the kcal range: 10kcal/pound. It's generally applicable to either sex... but moreso to females and guys with fairly high BF%.
As you're not getting back into things, I'd suggest 50% protein; 30 % carbs; 20% fat.
I figure you both will have impaired insulin sensitivity at this point, so you wouldn't benefit from a standard macro-spread, as a leaner/constantly active athlete would.
np mate.
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tdee = 2413?
Tell me about your daily activity... because I'm curious what prompted you to use the active multiplier that you did.
I'd fathom that your carb intake is way higher than represented.
Each 2 cups of veggies tend to add 20-25gr usable carbohydrates. (Fiber counts because it, being fermented in the lower intestine, yields usable short-chain fatty acids. These fatty acids contribute 3-6kcals/gram...so we count them towards one's energy intake).
So... do me a favor and cut all your veggies up and measure them in cups...and give me the figure on this thread so I can have an idea of just how much higher your carb/kcal intake is.
See above.
Fat's a little on the high side.
I'd fathom that, once re-calculated, you'll find that your carb intake is on the high side as well.
That aside, interesting combination of foods.
I appreciate the variety.
I noticed the probiotics.
Do you have digestive issues?
Personally, I'd add a protease formula + betaine HCL to the mix.
I'd also add a Glucose disposal Aide... like chromium polynicotinate, metformin, or any other compound you can get ahold of at present.
Nice diet overall though. Some tweaking and you'll be good to go.
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10-06-2009, 03:29 PM #1262Female Member
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i wrk out 5 days a week 20-30 min cardio afterwards.
saturday i just do cardio about an hr worth. this week im buying a treadmill and i plan to do cardio in the morning.
i used 1.55. i also dnt wrk during the week, so i only wrk out.
and yes i have lots of digestion issues..
i can give u a rough guess of how much i've been eating so far in veggies.
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10-06-2009, 04:07 PM #1264Female Member
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about 70 cals and 20 carbs per cup. i only have a cup when i eat them.
so thats an extra 80g of carbs
and 280 cals...
maybe drop the soup in meal 2 and 5?
drop the flax in meal 6
lower my peanut butter to a tsp instead of tbsp.
so that would give me (when i drop wat i suggested above)
: 1,851 cals
151.5g carbs
48.5 g fat
185 g pro
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10-06-2009, 04:11 PM #1265Female Member
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Looks like a decent place to start.
You're going to stagnate after 6 or so week though... So at that point, I'd look into carb-cycling.
I'd suggest:
Days 1-3:
151.5g carbs
48.5 g fat
185 g pro
Days 4-6:
100g carbs
48.5 g fat
185 g pro
Days 7-9:
50g carbs
48.5 g fat
185 g pro
Day 10: Re-feed.
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10-06-2009, 04:49 PM #1267Female Member
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looks great thanks
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10-07-2009, 11:50 PM #1269Junior Member
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Nark is the sh*t-
***IMPORTANT P.S.*** - I've been dying to ask you this for awhile Nark and I finally remembered:
What would you rank as the Top 3 (in no particular order) or so best low-cost sources of Protein, Low GI Complex Carbs and Vegetables? This would help me tremendously in forming my diet. I need to spend as little as possible on food for the next several months for several reasons. However, I will eat ANYTHING as often as possible as long as it's really good for me and cheap. Please take a second for this one: as it will go a long way for me. ThanksLast edited by yesitsreallyjosh; 10-27-2009 at 03:10 AM.
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10-10-2009, 08:51 AM #1270
Edited
Last edited by paddy155; 10-12-2009 at 03:31 PM.
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10-12-2009, 03:30 PM #1271
Hi Nark. I sent you a pm, just wondering if you got it ?
I have been pretty busy with work over the last few day's so not had much time to sit down and construct my diet. Had so much going threw my mind lately with my diet and workout's. Been reading alot into slingshot training recently but anyway,diet first.
I have calculated that my maintenance kcal's is 2170 and my partner's is 1610. Basing our diet's on 50% pro, 30% carb's and 20% fat's I will consume roughly 1085 Kcal's for pro, 651 for carb's and 434 for fat's and my partner will consume 805 kcal's for pro, 483 for carb's and 322 for fat.
We have sat down and discussed roughly how many meal's we could consume daily and at what time's. I have also marked what each meal will consist of (pro,carb,fat) I have not added in any food choice's yet.
MEAL 1 6.00-6.30am (p/c)
MEAL 2 9.30am (p/c)
MEAL 3 12.30pm (p/c)
MEAL 4 4.00-4.30pm (p/c)
MEAL 5 Pre-workout 6.30pm (p/c)
WORKOUT
MEAL 6 Post workout 9.00pm (p/c)
MEAL 7 10.00pm (p/f)
All meal's will contain green's.
I have a couple of question's regarding the above.
1. How does the layout of the diet look ?
2. Am I leaving to much time in between meal's ?
3. If I have to consume roughly 434 Kcal's for fat , that would be 48 g. I reliase that most food's contain fat which could bring this down a little and leave not so much for the last meal, but I intend on eating super clean. Egg whites,sweet potatoes and green's. How much fat should be consumed in my last meal and which other's throughout the day should I include the remianing fat's ?
Thank's
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10-15-2009, 06:22 PM #1272Junior Member
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i can tell you that he's gonna tell you to keep the macros pretty much the same over every meal. in other words, the fat should be about the same for every meal.
'and personally i think uve got the right idea except you should include a little fat spread out over every meal and (if you can) move up meals 4,5, and 6 one hour in order to leave 2 hours between meals 6 and 7 and only 3 hours between meals 3 and 4
just my two cents
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10-20-2009, 03:42 AM #1273
why? seems like she's getting sufficient fiber from her diet...
I'm also not quite clear on using digestive enzymes vs eliminating the offending foods giving you stomach issues most of time, indigestion is due to allergies or too high fat intake.....just wondering
taking metformin is highly ill-advised IMO, esp. if she isn't using it to specifically control a diabetic condition (do we even know her fasting blood sugar levels??)...metformin is NOT a supplement, and can aggravate her GI issues...Last edited by chubbsub; 10-20-2009 at 04:59 AM.
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10-20-2009, 05:38 AM #1274
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10-28-2009, 07:14 PM #1275
first of all great thread, wish i could say i read ALL the pages, but i went through a lot.
ok, i dont know if this has been asked already, my apologies if it has.. im very interested in your approach to moderate carbs/protein and low fat. im currently cutting, ive been doing low carbs, around 80/day from 3/4 cup i oats in 2 meals, and about 1.5 cups of broccoli in 3 meals so 4.5 total a day, plus a fiber supp since im not getting too much from the foods im eating. the rest of my cals are coming from 80 grams fat/day and 185-200 grams of protein/day. i can go into detail about my diet if its needed, i figured out all the macros when i planned my diet in the beginning but cant remember exactly what they were, i know im getting in about 2300 cals a day. i do a 5 day split for weight training, followed by 40 mins steady state cardio 130 beats per min. after every workout and 1 day of 40min cardio on the weekend.
my stats are 23 5'10 205 12/13%BF.
my question is, say i wanted to change my diet approach and go with moderate carbs instead of somewhat low like ive been doing. how should i go about this? common sense would say to slowly reintroduce carbs in my meals, while simultaneously slowly lowering fat. thats sort of a broad generalization though, if i could get some more insight in how to best plan this out, thatd be great.
my fat loss is going well so far, and i know most would say dont fix it if its not broken, but i seem to be hungry all the time. ive lost BF very well before using the moderate carb/lower fat approach, but i wanted to try the other way to see how i responded. like i said, its going well, but i had a lot more energy throughout the day when i had more carbs. i want that back. any help is greatly appreciated.
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10-29-2009, 03:01 PM #1276New Member
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I am trying to bulk up. I am 5.9" 194Lb and around 18%bf
I care about nutrition, but I never had the dedication and the knowledge to...
Now I have the dedication, but not the knowldege so I hope u help me out.
I live in college dorm and therefore I cant cook my own food.
The college cafe, has salads, eggs all the time.
and depending on the day it has different kinds of food.
varying from chicken, beef, pork and turkey. Sometimes they are lean cuts, but sometimes they also come fried.
There is also a Pasta place..made to order.
I could also get chicken pieces from the cafe. I dont know which part it is but its seems pretty clean and its not fried..
I usually take meals 2-3 times a day because I find it hard to goto the cafe that many times.. and i take whey protein shakes, multivitamin, creatine and mass xxx
Please advise
Thank you
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11-05-2009, 07:07 AM #1277
I was at the worst I have ever been 3 years ago weighing 300pounds in the beginning of college. Lost over 70 pounds of fat and put on serious muscle with diet and cardio. I have been plateauing for the past year and a half.
After many cycles of clen and t3 and horrible 4 week test cycle of test E. I am at the same point. I need some serious help.
My diet is regularly very clean. Similar to bellow. I am still confused how I can maintain so much bf while my peers are eating twice as bad and keeping themselves under 10%. I generally lift 4X a week and do cardio 4x a week (tennis (2), 15 min hiit (1), 3 mile run(1))
Stats:
21 yrs old
6'2''
227lbs
13.5% bf (done by dex)
Want to get lean and stay lean- possibly compete
I thought it was a hormonal problem and got it checked. Everything turned out fine. SO BACK TO THE DIET FORUM!
I tried to be as detailed about my diet as humanly possilbe. I you need any clarification dont hesitate to ask.
Thanks in advance
Katch-McArdle Formula (BMR based on lean body weight):BMR (men and women) = 370 + (21.6 X lean mass in kg)
(90kg X 21.6) + 370 = 2314 X (moderate activity) 1.55 = 3586.7 calories
TIME/ FOOD/ CALS/ PRO/ FAT/ CARBS/
7:30AM/ 3/4 CUP OATS/ 225/ 23/ 5/ 40
2 TBSP POWDER CREAMER/ 20/ 0/ 2/ 2
1/2 SLICE OF PEPPER JACK CHESEE/ 30/ 1/ 2/ 1
3 EGG WHITES/ 50/ 12/ 0 / 0
3 EGG WHOLE/ 240/ 18/ 15/ 3
TOTALS=565/54/24/46
9:00AM WORKOUT
10:30AM 1 SCOOP OF ON PROTEIN 130 20 3 3
11:00AM 2 CUPS OF VEGGIES 60 4 0 N/A
8OZ OF CHICKEN 240 44 4 0
TOTALS=300/48/2/0
4:00PM TUNA CREATIONS PACK 215 32 9 5
6:30PM 1/4 PACK OF 94% BEEF 170 23 8 0
2 CUPS OF VEGGIES 60 4 0 N/A
8OZ OF CHICKEN 240 44 4 0
TOTALS=470/51/10/0
10:30PM 1 SCOOP OF ON PROTEIN 130 20 3 3
1TBSP OF OLIVE OIL 120 0 14 0
TOTALS=250/20/17/3
CALS /PRO/FAT/ CARBS
DAY TOTALS 1930/245/69/57
I have no idea where I can increase. Just to remind you guys, I have been eating like this for a while and havent dropped any in BF.
I also seem to be very carb sensitive.Last edited by noexcuses88; 11-05-2009 at 07:51 PM.
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Originally Posted by NarkissosOriginally Posted by yesitsreallyjosh
If you have a 'ridiculously high metabolism', then why are you over 12% F currently?
It doesn't add up.
Originally Posted by NarkissosOriginally Posted by yesitsreallyjosh
However, if your goal is indeed to cut and then bulk, your diet needs to reflect this.
At present, I believe it's currently *way* over maintenance for the LBM you currently have.
Originally Posted by NarkissosOriginally Posted by yesitsreallyjosh
Originally Posted by yesitsreallyjosh
If you're going 3 days per week, your rest/active-rest days need to be better placed.
Originally Posted by NarkissosOriginally Posted by yesitsreallyjosh
I'd just add ab work into your HIIT/conditioning day.
I'd also suggest inserting your conditioning days between your weight training days.
e.g.
Monday - Chest/Shoulders/triceps
Tuesday: Outdoor HIIT
Wednesday- Legs
Thursday - outdoor HIIT
Friday - Back/biceps
Saturday - outdoor HIIT
sun - rest
Toss some bear crawls and box jumps in on your outdoor HIIT days...and that takes care of ab work.
Originally Posted by NarkissosOriginally Posted by yesitsreallyjosh
...at least initially.
Originally Posted by NarkissosOriginally Posted by yesitsreallyjosh
You may want to split the dosage over two sittings.
Also... you may want to work your way up to 3 grams/day.
Originally Posted by yesitsreallyjosh
Daily.
Originally Posted by yesitsreallyjosh
Originally Posted by yesitsreallyjosh
Originally Posted by NarkissosOriginally Posted by yesitsreallyjosh
Originally Posted by yesitsreallyjosh
- Pearl Barley.
- Cream of wheat.
- Quinoa
- Wholegrain Corn Meal
- Stone-ground wholewheat Pita Bread
Originally Posted by yesitsreallyjosh
Originally Posted by yesitsreallyjosh
Originally Posted by yesitsreallyjosh
Originally Posted by yesitsreallyjosh
Originally Posted by yesitsreallyjosh
Things available in my region tend not to be available in other parts of the world.
I'll take a crack at it though... I'll take it a step further than top 3 in some instances:
Originally Posted by yesitsreallyjosh
- Sardines
- Pork
- Beef
- Shrimp
- Salmon
- Tilapia
Originally Posted by yesitsreallyjosh
- Quinoa
- Yams (the true yam.. not the sweet potato)
- Sweet potato
- Pearl Barley
- Mahogany Rice/Wild Rice
Originally Posted by yesitsreallyjosh
- Buk Choy (Chinese cabbage)
- Mushrooms (technically not a vegetable)
- Spinach
- Squash (technically not a vegetable)
- Okras
Originally Posted by yesitsreallyjosh
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I did.
Noted.
Noted.
Noted.
Have you counted the greens towards your calculated carb intake?
You should.
The structure looks good.
651 kcals alloted to carbs, spread over p/c meals amounts to less than 30 gr carbs per sitting... which is a pretty good load per meal.
Providing your pick your carb sources well, you'll net a decent insulin trickle through-out the day... as opposed to a huge spike.
Nice.
It looks that way... but, you will have to assess this for yourself... using hunger (and other responses) as your guide.
If you're eating only egg whites for protein, then you'll need to add at least 5 grams of fat to each meal... This'll leave you with approximately 20 grams of fat for the last meal.
However... if you're eating stuff like chicken and beef, you really won't have that much leeway.
np
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Doesn't appear that way to me.
What defines 'sufficient' for you?
Blanket statements.
Many things cause indigestion... not just 'allergies' or 'too high fat intake'.
Some people don't produce enough stomach acid.
Some people (due to stress etc.) don't produce enough enzymes.
Some people suffer from anxiety and other conditions which can affect gastric emptying.
Loads of factors affect digestion.
*sigh*
Refer to this thread's MO: performance nutrition.
Not 'let's hold hands and sing kumbaya'-dieting.
I've been doing this for over a decade, and I never give advice on anything I don't have extensive personal experience with.
If you don't like the advice given on the thread, either don't read it, or discard what you dislike... simple.
'Controlling a diabetic condition' isn't why bodybuilders use metformin.
Advising that an individual not use said compound for the above reason is as asinine as suggesting that individuals not use steroids unless they have muscle wastage.
Metformin's GI-track irritating effects are short-term.
After a week on the compound, negative effects tend to cease.
Some people never get GI discomfort on the compound... period.
The fact of the matter is that the compound is effective for the purposes discussed on this thread.
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