UNoffical "How to Cut" thread and sample diet...

[*Narkissos*]

Thanks for the prompt reply SC.

My history:
Why i said it 'works' for me... I've tried it the conventional way before and that didn't. I like your reply tho...states your point straight up. What has been 'working' thus far for me has been the weight-training, followed by a posing session, then cardio.. a protein+ creatine shake... My next meal within the hour would be carbs (usually potatoes)... Why this was done was at my coach's request... Seemed my body responded better to macronutrient separation. Even currently (tho again going against convention), my meals tru-out the day usually don't mix macronutrients... (not suggesting this to others to go against the board... but saying what has worked for me)... Usually... complex carb only.. protein only.. sometimes protein+ carb or protein+fat.. depends on how i 'feel' that day. I found this way my body absorbs abd utilises the macronutrients better..

[*Narkissos*]

Some competitors here do it also (the ones who get most conditioned). What's your take on it SC?

[MIKE_XXL]

Well done Bro, great post!
XXL

[diesel21]

i love it all... exactly how much fat per meal though? i'm 185 and still cutting up as much as i can......... how would i figure this out?

[craneboy]

thanks for the good info

[yannick32]

Thanks thats a great diet and since it has carbs in it, will prevent falling into ketosis, yaggg, i will try this for sure.

[BigMike J]

This needs to be bumped.

[HOLLYWOOD]

hey rambo, is the measure of 1/2 cup of oats or rice cooked or not cooked???

[LeanMeOut]

hey rambo, is the measure of 1/2 cup of oats or rice cooked or not cooked???

Not cooked

[HOLLYWOOD]

are you sure thats what he intended??? would that be about 50g dry of oats???

[dalcowbag]

not cooked. . .not even close to being cooked

dcb

[HOLLYWOOD]

could i slit that up into 1/4 cup when i wake up and 1/4 cup before the gym??

[dalcowbag]

could i slit that up into 1/4 cup when i wake up and 1/4 cup before the gym??

i dont think your understand the concept behind the sticky of not mixing carbs and fats. just dont look at the diet, READ THE FVCKING THING!!

DCB

[HOLLYWOOD]

i did read the fvcking thing i obviously wont have that flax with it, and i will just have it before bed with my last protein meal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dalcowbag]

i did read the fvcking thing i obviously wont have that flax with it, and i will just have it before bed with my last protein meal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OK!!!!!!!!!!!! BUT WHY ARE WE TALKING SO LOUDLY!!!!!

ehhmm. . .now if you wanna have 2 carbs meal b4 your lift just make sure your getting enough fat in your other meals. this also depends on your carb sensitivity. . .you will have to mess around with it and see how you repond.

dcb

[HOLLYWOOD]

sorry bro! but anyways is it apsolutely neccesary to have that much flax or whatever other fat i'll use or could i just get by with just one tbsp later in the day??? the reason why im asking this is because my workouts are much better if i have a little bit of carbs about 1hr -1.5hrs before i hit the weights!!!

[dalcowbag]

fats are essential to have for fat burning i know i take in about 100grams a day of EFA's

dcb

[HOLLYWOOD]

coo coo thanks for the info!

[marka]

Thanks for this thread.

I have a question re your comment about avoiding too many shakes. It just seems so easy for me to get most of my protein from shakes, I guess I will be cutting back a little.

What do you think about meal replacement shakes like myoplex, and metrx? I mean, would you consider these a little bit better than just whey alone? If I substituted 1 of the 3 whey p shakes I take daily, with one meal replacement, will that be a bit better?

Forgive me if this is a dumb question. I get lost when the diet lingo gets too technical.

[TheChosenOne]

Thanks for this thread.

I have a question re your comment about avoiding too many shakes. It just seems so easy for me to get most of my protein from shakes, I guess I will be cutting back a little.

What do you think about meal replacement shakes like myoplex, and metrx? I mean, would you consider these a little bit better than just whey alone? If I substituted 1 of the 3 whey p shakes I take daily, with one meal replacement, will that be a bit better?

Forgive me if this is a dumb question. I get lost when the diet lingo gets too technical.

The problem I see with MRP's is that they generally contain about 20-30g of Maltodextrin which creates a insulin spike you are looking to avoid while cutting. I personally just stick with whey and flax in water (plus splenda) and nothing more when having shakes.

[HOLLYWOOD]

what is the main reason to avoid shakes???

[TheChosenOne]

what is the main reason to avoid shakes???

Its not that shakes are bad, but it generally is safe to say that solid food will take longer to be digested by the body therefore creating a slow calorie drip and hopefully keeping you "fuller" longer. I know that when eating lean beef studies have found that it can be "active" up to 7-8hrs later. Also it takes more calories by the body to break down solid food (digestion takes Kcals) something you want when trying to cut.

[HOLLYWOOD]

o i c! well i get my protein powder very cheap, and taht is the majority of my daily protein intake and being a full time student i dont have the money to go out and by a ton of chicken and all that so will having mostly protein in my diet hold me back dramatically on anything?

[LeanMeOut]

o i c! well i get my protein powder very cheap, and taht is the majority of my daily protein intake and being a full time student i dont have the money to go out and by a ton of chicken and all that so will having mostly protein in my diet hold me back dramatically on anything?

I will say having 1/2 your meals from liquid is ok..... but if I were you I really wouldn't use more than that. Try buying tuna, it is cheap and a great source of lean protein.

[marka]

Thanks for the reply.

[TheChosenOne]

I will say having 1/2 your meals from liquid is ok..... but if I were you I really wouldn't use more than that. Try buying tuna, it is cheap and a great source of lean protein.

Or depending on where you live you could always do some hunting or have someone else do it for you if you are A.D.D. like me. I had a couple people shoot as much deer as possible this season for my freezer. Hell hunters take joy in killing things and I take joy in eating their game.

[LeanMeOut]

Or depending on where you live you could always do some hunting or have someone else do it for you if you are A.D.D. like me. I had a couple people shoot as much deer as possible this season for my freezer. Hell hunters take joy in killing things and I take joy in eating their game.

I really need to try Deer meat....... everyone talks about how good it is and how great it is to not eat tuna or chicken lol. Too bad I live in the **** desert

[dalcowbag]

I really need to try Deer meat....... everyone talks about how good it is and how great it is to not eat tuna or chicken lol. Too bad I live in the **** desert

**** LMO come up north for some Venison steak. HOT DAYUM thats good stuff!!

dcb

[Mida]

i just read your diet rambo, im not to bright on diets etc..ive been working out on and off for a 2 years. But now im going to stick it out, i was just wondering about the diet how its all up 50 grams of fat, arnt you meant to have no more than 30 grams a day?

[TheChosenOne]

i just read your diet rambo, im not to bright on diets etc..ive been working out on and off for a 2 years. But now im going to stick it out, i was just wondering about the diet how its all up 50 grams of fat, arnt you meant to have no more than 30 grams a day?

No even the FDA recommends on a 2000 kcal diet you have 66g of Fat. Actually 50 is quite low many when cutting with go a bit higher than that. As long as their is no insulin spike at the present time there should be no issue with consuming healthy fats.

[Buyuadrnk]

Glad I found your post it will help myself and the boys at the gym. Cutting has always beena big issue for me and I have one question that i'm not sure about. The PWO intake. 40-60 grams of whey and how much carbs? when you say double the amount in whey do you mean 80 grams of protein??

[TheChosenOne]

Glad I found your post it will help myself and the boys at the gym. Cutting has always beena big issue for me and I have one question that i'm not sure about. The PWO intake. 40-60 grams of whey and how much carbs? when you say double the amount in whey do you mean 80 grams of protein??

2:1 ratio (carbs/pro). So go with 80g Dextrose (or maltodextrin) and 40g of Whey, or 100g Dextrose and 50g Whey.

[NevrSayNevr]

Kick*ss Post, so much information, so little time!!!!!

[NevrSayNevr]

Bump

[skribbble]

I have a quick question for swolecat. People say in this thread cardio on an empty stomach followed by a pro fat meal... Which is fine, but how long should you wait until your second meal? usually i have a pro/carb meal and i was wondering if i waited 2 hrs after my pro/fat meal if that was enough time?

[Blown_SC]

Two hours is fine..

[BIGMATTJN]

I am looking at this sample diet. I am preparing to do my first show about 18 weeks out. I am presently about 255 pounds but would suspect I need to get down to 225 pounds to be contest lean. I will be all natural by the way, and what would be a good strategy for a diet as well as time frame to get started? Could someone help me? Thanks
By rambo @anabolicreview.com

It’s about time we had a decent full length post on cutting…

Let’s get a few things straight…
1. All of the insights I’m about to provide are not person-specific. What that means is that it is a general guideline, not a bible.
2. I truly do believe that bodybuilding is 80% diet. You can lift your ass off daily, and still look horrible if you aren’t eating right.
3. You are what you eat. It’s just that simple.

The BASICS-
1.Postworkout Nutrition- I’m a firm believer that PWO nutrition is hands down the most important aspect of dieting. It is within the 15 minutes after a workout that your body is in dire need of nutrients. It is a completely anabolic state, and what you take in can be optimized to ensure maximum results. A general rule of thumb is 40-60 grams whey protein, and double the amount of whey in carbohydrates (50% dextrose/50% maltodextrin).

2. Carbs- You are **** right, carbs. In a strict cutting diet the majority of your carbs should come in the form of PWO nutrition, and the remainder in breakfast. Fibrous veggies are a staple, but keep in mind that they don’t count towards intake, as they have negligible impacts on blood sugar levels. (Exceptions: Carrots, Peas) All high glycemic carbs outside of PWO should be avoided. The best sources of low GI carbs can be found in oatmeal and brown rice, as well as yams.

3. Protein- You need tons. 1.5-2.0 grams per pound of lean bodyweight is a good general rule of thumb. You should take in a good portion of your protein in the source of real meals, avoid intaking too many shakes, as real food comes to a better benefit. The list foods with high protein bioavailability is extensive, and I will only cover a few, (Egg whites, Lean steak, Chicken breast, the list goes on forever….).

4. Fats- Guess what? You need fat to lose fat. We are talking about the granddaddy of fats, the EFA (Essential Fatty Acid). Good sources of fat are ( Flax Oil, Nuts, Salmon, Olive Oil).

5. The separation of Carbs and Fats- This is a hotly debated issue, but again, in my opinion, an important aspect nonetheless. Remember that it is often when you eat items and with what you eat them that is more important than what you are eating. A mouthful, I know, but stay with me. Remember that when you take in certain carbs, you can spike your insulin levels. If you are taking in fats when your insulin has been spiked, you are allowing the basic laws of physiology to act out, and you allow for a higher propensity for fat storage. Separation is key. The sample diet will give a good example of how to separate them.




6. Supplements-

Glutamine: Helps prevent catabolism when cutting. Best used in dosages of 10grams daily, 5 grams before cardio, 5 grams at another interval, but not after workout as it fights for absorption with the glutamine peptides in whey.
ALA/R-ALA- Gets my supplement of the day award. R-ALA is effective in lowering the spike of insulin when certain carbs are consumed. I could give you a dissertation on the stereoentisomeric properties of the R, but all you need to know is that it has been found to shuttle carbohydrates away from adipose and into myocytes. Translation: Away from fat cells, into muscle cells. It’s a supplement, however, not a miracle worker. It’s not a crutch, and won’t do anything about fat intake. ALA and R-ALA can also aid in the expedition of the ketogenic state. Remember that if you buy R-ALA that you supplement it with Biotin. Glucorell-R is prepackaged with it. If you can afford it, go for it. As far as dosage, with the R, you are looking at 1-2 pills of Glucorell R for each 30-40grams of carb intake.
Protein and Carb Shakes: I’m not going to cover protein, because even if you can’t afford it, you should sell a kidney to get some. Carb drinks are rather convenient, and companies offer pre mixed dosages, (CarboHit, Glycoload, UltraFuel). Dextrose and Maltodextrin can be bought from most supplement stores or online.

www.allsportsnutition.com

7. Cheating- Cheating is essential. Why? Remember, the body runs on homeostasis, it likes to keep balance. After eating so well after a week, your body begins to adjust, and fat loss over time will not be as rapid. The other extremely important aspect is mental sanity. So many diets crash and fail because people don’t give themselves a chance to breath. Remember, cheating is not an opportunity for you to pillage the entire mall food court. Shoot for a cheat meal, not an all out binge. A fast food value meal can be 2,000 calories. Eat that 3 times on one day, and you’ve consumed 6,000 calories. And that’s not good in any case.

8. Cardio- Cardio and cutting usually go hand in hand. I won't go into specifics about length, other than cardio shouldn't be excessive. 45 minutes to one hour daily should be sufficient, and should be performed on an empty stomach.




Sample Diet:
Note: This is a sample diet for a 200 pound gentleman who is wishing to cut. We can assume his BF to be around 15%. This diet will NOT work for you if those criteria don’t apply to you; however it is easy to customize the below diet to take in account your own statistics. It is the principles that are applicable.. I am not going to post the total amount of calories, only the carb, protein and fat macros for the whole day.


Meal 1:
Lean Protein, 1/2 cup oatmeal

Meal 2:
Protein shake/Lean Protein (2 tbsp flax

Meal 3:
Veggies, Lean Protein

Workout

Meal 4:
PWO Nutrition

Meal 5:
Veggies, Lean Protein, 1/2 cup rice or oatmeal.

Meal 6:
Shake with Flax

That turns into approximately 300 grams protein, 130 grams Carbs, and 50 grams of fat.

*Reminder: This is a PRIMER. It’s not mean to be comprehensive.





Here comes the fun part: Question and Answer….

Q: What about dairy?
A: If you don’t mind a soft look, fat free cottage cheese is an excellent caseinate source, but as for milks- way too much processed sugar. NO.

Q: Should I do a keto diet?
A: Unless you are morbidly obese, or would like to drag your wilted muscles behind you, stay away from keto. Again, that’s my opinion. You can see my previous posts for my anti-keto ranting.

Q: What about cycling carb intake?
A: Obviously on non workout days you will be without a shake, so you will be auto-cycling. It works well that way.

Q: Is sodium an issue?
A: Outside of the bloating issue, or if you have high cholesterol, no.

Q. How do I make my meals not taste like cardboard?
A. Be creative. Mix in some sugar free jam or splenda in your oats, some hot sauce or soy sauce on your meats, or pick up some sugar free ketchup.

Q. I don’t like old fashioned oats. Can I eat the pre mixed oats with fruit?
A. No. Be a man. Those mixes have ridiculous amounts of sugar.

Q. What about fruit?
A: Fruit replenishes glycogen stores in the liver, and in my opinion, is not to be a staple of a strict cutting diet, with a few exceptions.

Q: Can I eat steak while cutting?
A: Definitely. Make sure it’s a leaner cut.

And with this post I take a sabbatical. I’d like to thank ~Swolecat~ for his influence, and to thank all of you who may have indirectly annoyed me enough to result in this elongated post. If I missed anything, or am horribly wrong on anything, feel free to PM me, and I will edit it in. Best of luck, and remember…

“Obsessed is a the word that lazy people use for dedicated.”


Happy Holidays,

Rambo

* This was edited to reflect a few changes, and change the title to UN official, as was my original intent [/QUOTE]

[HOLLYWOOD]

"3. Protein- You need tons. 1.5-2.0 grams per pound of lean bodyweight is a good general rule of thumb. You should take in a good portion of your protein in the source of real meals, avoid intaking too many shakes, as real food comes to a better benefit. The list foods with high protein bioavailability is extensive, and I will only cover a few, (Egg whites, Lean steak, Chicken breast, the list goes on forever….)."

taken from the actually thread... but what are the reasons behind whole food being a better protein source??? is it more easily digested, more of a steady release of protein between meals???

[skribbble]

What about the weekends... I usually dont lift on saturday and sunday so what kinda meals should i eat since im sure ill have too many carbs if i eat like i do when i lift.

[TheChosenOne]

What about the weekends... I usually dont lift on saturday and sunday so what kinda meals should i eat since im sure ill have too many carbs if i eat like i do when i lift.

I would say as a general rule of thumb that you keep your carbs under 50g for the day if not working out. I know that is how I cut on my off days and how many do it.