SARM effects on testosterone?

**Pac Man** · 04-12-2009, 10:31 AM

Anyone have a study or blood test that shows it's effect on testosterone ?
Could this be used as a replacement for TRT?

**kojak_x** · 04-12-2009, 03:21 PM

from what I know is that its supposed to stimulate the pituitary gland to stimulate Luteinizing hormone which in turn acts upon the Leydig cells of the testis and is responsible for the production of testosterone , an androgen that exerts both endocrine activity and intratesticular activity such as spermatogenesis.
The release of LH at the pituitary gland is controlled by pulses of gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) from the hypothalamus. Those pulses, in turn, are subject to the estrogen feedback from the gonads.

Hope that helps somewhat

Got this off
hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luteinizing_hormone

**Mr.TrX** · 05-02-2009, 10:36 PM

sounds interesting enough to check it out. i saw a supplement in the px today that said SARM on the label wonder if its the same

**jdog007** · 05-05-2009, 10:23 PM

doubt it...... Actually no its not ...dont waste ur money

**Kratos** · 05-08-2009, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by kojak_x

from what I know is that its supposed to stimulate the pituitary gland to stimulate Luteinizing hormone which in turn acts upon the Leydig cells of the testis and is responsible for the production of testosterone , an androgen that exerts both endocrine activity and intratesticular activity such as spermatogenesis.
The release of LH at the pituitary gland is controlled by pulses of gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) from the hypothalamus. Those pulses, in turn, are subject to the estrogen feedback from the gonads.

Hope that helps somewhat

Got this off
hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luteinizing_hormone

ummmm....noooooo!!!

**Kratos** · 05-08-2009, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by Ironside

Anyone have a study or blood test that shows it's effect on testosterone ?
Could this be used as a replacement for TRT?

It's not test, so it will never replace test replacement therapy.
SARMS may replace steroids as used in muscle wasting condtions and steroid cycles for building muscle mass. Also it may have some appications in other conditions like prostate cancer. For HRT, no.

**chucklesmcgee** · 06-03-2009, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by Kratos

It's not test, so it will never replace test replacement therapy.
SARMS may replace steroids as used in muscle wasting condtions and steroid cycles for building muscle mass. Also it may have some appications in other conditions like prostate cancer. For HRT, no.

SARMs could be substituted for HRT at some point. If you have something that essentially corrects the negative aspects of low testosterone without the side effects of testosterone itself, then SARMs become quite appealing. Sure, your testosterone will low, but if the symptoms of low testosterone disappear, who cares?

I believe the patent alludes to potential HRT usage.

**powerliftmike** · 06-03-2009, 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by chucklesmcgee

SARMs could be substituted for HRT at some point. If you have something that essentially corrects the negative aspects of low testosterone without the side effects of testosterone itself, then SARMs become quite appealing. Sure, your testosterone will low, but if the symptoms of low testosterone disappear, who cares?

I believe the patent alludes to potential HRT usage.

SARMs will never replace testosterone for HRT. Nothing will. If you are clinically deficient in testosterone and you bring back to normal levels there are no side effects anyway b/c you have merely corrected levels. There is no way for any other anabolic and/or androgenic compound to exactly mimic testosterone in the body.

**Phate** · 06-04-2009, 01:34 AM

Originally Posted by Ironside

Anyone have a study or blood test that shows it's effect on testosterone ?
Could this be used as a replacement for TRT?

i had bloodwork run several months before starting S4 and just had some done monday, when i get it(hopefully tomorrow, they are being slow) i'll look it over and post the results

i personally wrote out what tests i wanted run and trust me, i'll get 5-6 pages of results back, i asked for a ton of tests

**Phate** · 06-04-2009, 09:30 AM

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: texas
Posts: 7,936

okay guys, got my blood work back and here's how it stands

BLOODWORK FROM OCTOBER 9, 2008
Pre-SARM

Total test level 5.49ng/mL
LH 2.77mIU/mL
Prolactin 11.40ng/mL

BLOODWORK FROM MONDAY, JUNE 1 2009
Intra-SARM

Total test level 282ng/dL (this would be 2.82ng/mL)
Free test 11.9pg/mL(the reference range is 9.3-26.5, i should be at the high end of this as it takes into account age groups from 0-60+)

AST 53(reference range 0-40)
ALT 103 (reference range 0-55)

This tells me a few things:

first, S4 is slightly suppressive of your natural testosterone production as mine has been cut in half over the last 4-5 weeks from use of it, so it might not be the best thing to run in PCT

second, even though it is not 17aa, it is affecting my liver from some angle as my liver enzymes are raised and i haven't had a drink of alcohol in a while

**Pac Man** · 06-04-2009, 04:18 PM

Thanks for doing the research on that Phate, much appreciated.
Can I ask, how did you feel while on? Did it give you the same feeling as running a test cycle or did you feel some effects of lowered testosterone ?

**Phate** · 06-04-2009, 04:34 PM

i've never run an AS cycle so i have no basis for comparison there, but i wouldn't have been able to tell you i had low test without the bloodwork, i feel completely normal

**chucklesmcgee** · 06-09-2009, 10:57 PM

Phate- What dosage have you been using? If you get more bloodwork done, change dosage levels or whatever, be sure to post. It would be interesting to see if your T levels remain where they are or continue to drop. Your T is now on the lowish-normal end, I think, so it's not too strange that you haven't noticed side effects.

I'm wondering if testosterone suppression could account for the fact that some users don't see much increase in strength/composition beyond 100 mg/day. At some point, natural testosterone might be suppressed to the point that additional S-4 simply compensates for the reduced anabolism caused by suppression of testosterone. I'm wondering then if there's a sweet spot for S-4 dosage, one at which testosterone is not suppressed and S-4 still exerts a significant anabolic effect. Perhaps then, a lower dose (25-50 mg) may be better. If anyone has personal experience/blood work that confirms or denies, do share.

**chavo** · 06-10-2009, 12:48 PM

I think lower dosages is best

**IM708** · 06-10-2009, 04:39 PM

Originally Posted by chavo

I think lower dosages is best

Are you the same chavo who floated around at forum filled with ugl reps?

**chavo** · 06-10-2009, 06:11 PM

Originally Posted by ironmaiden708

Are you the same chavo who floated around at forum filled with ugl reps?

what is ugl reps?

**IM708** · 06-10-2009, 07:40 PM

Originally Posted by chavo

what is ugl reps?

More technical: ugl/source reps

**chavo** · 06-10-2009, 09:53 PM

Originally Posted by ironmaiden708

More technical: ugl/source reps

There is this new chem co. that will be selling it soon and will have shopping cart and all, he is just going thru last details with his lawyer to make sure all is legit and safe for everyone, after all Sarms are not illegal, right? And just like many sell cialis, nolva or clomid as research chems why can't anyone sell sarms as research as well?

**IM708** · 06-10-2009, 10:04 PM

Originally Posted by chavo

There is this new chem co. that will be selling it soon and will have shopping cart and all, he is just going thru last details with his lawyer to make sure all is legit and safe for everyone, after all Sarms are not illegal, right? And just like many sell cialis, nolva or clomid as research chems why can't anyone sell sarms as research as well?

I have no issues with it, hell I'd even try it. WADA is probably frantically trying to find a way to detect it by now. Let me know via pm who the chem co is when it's all finalized....

**John88Test** · 06-11-2009, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by Phate

i've never run an AS cycle so i have no basis for comparison there, but i wouldn't have been able to tell you i had low test without the bloodwork, i feel completely normal

Phate, where is your log of the S-4. I just started Monday.

**Phate** · 06-14-2009, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by chucklesmcgee

Phate- What dosage have you been using? If you get more bloodwork done, change dosage levels or whatever, be sure to post. It would be interesting to see if your T levels remain where they are or continue to drop. Your T is now on the lowish-normal end, I think, so it's not too strange that you haven't noticed side effects.
my cycle ends in a couple weeks so i wont be able to do this during this cycle, maybe my next one though
I'm wondering if testosterone suppression could account for the fact that some users don't see much increase in strength/composition beyond 100 mg/day. At some point, natural testosterone might be suppressed to the point that additional S-4 simply compensates for the reduced anabolism caused by suppression of testosterone. I'm wondering then if there's a sweet spot for S-4 dosage, one at which testosterone is not suppressed and S-4 still exerts a significant anabolic effect. Perhaps then, a lower dose (25-50 mg) may be better. If anyone has personal experience/blood work that confirms or denies, do share.

if someone wanted to they would run S4 in a cycle or with something like HCG possibly to keep endogenous test levels up and see what happens

**jrmy** · 06-19-2009, 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by Phate

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: texas
Posts: 7,936

okay guys, got my blood work back and here's how it stands

BLOODWORK FROM OCTOBER 9, 2008
Pre-SARM

Total test level 5.49ng/mL
LH 2.77mIU/mL
Prolactin 11.40ng/mL

BLOODWORK FROM MONDAY, JUNE 1 2009
Intra-SARM

Total test level 282ng/dL (this would be 2.82ng/mL)
Free test 11.9pg/mL(the reference range is 9.3-26.5, i should be at the high end of this as it takes into account age groups from 0-60+)

AST 53(reference range 0-40)
ALT 103 (reference range 0-55)

This tells me a few things:

first, S4 is slightly suppressive of your natural testosterone production as mine has been cut in half over the last 4-5 weeks from use of it, so it might not be the best thing to run in PCT

second, even though it is not 17aa, it is affecting my liver from some angle as my liver enzymes are raised and i haven't had a drink of alcohol in a while

what exactly were you using and for how long may i ask?

**Phate** · 06-19-2009, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by jrmy

what exactly were you using and for how long may i ask?

i have a log in the member's cycle results section if you want to go take a look

**JasonR** · 09-20-2009, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by Phate

Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: texas
Posts: 7,936

okay guys, got my blood work back and here's how it stands

BLOODWORK FROM OCTOBER 9, 2008
Pre-SARM

Total test level 5.49ng/mL
LH 2.77mIU/mL
Prolactin 11.40ng/mL

BLOODWORK FROM MONDAY, JUNE 1 2009
Intra-SARM

Total test level 282ng/dL (this would be 2.82ng/mL)
Free test 11.9pg/mL(the reference range is 9.3-26.5, i should be at the high end of this as it takes into account age groups from 0-60+)

AST 53(reference range 0-40)
ALT 103 (reference range 0-55)

This tells me a few things:

first, S4 is slightly suppressive of your natural testosterone production as mine has been cut in half over the last 4-5 weeks from use of it, so it might not be the best thing to run in PCT

second, even though it is not 17aa, it is affecting my liver from some angle as my liver enzymes are raised and i haven't had a drink of alcohol in a while

You didn't take S-4 then, sorry...? They probably gave you some liquid cheap AAS... This is the more likely option

**elpropiotorvic** · 09-20-2009, 05:20 PM

Originally Posted by John88Test

Phate, where is your log of the S-4. I just started Monday.

Id like it if u post a log as well

**fcuk** · 09-27-2009, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by JasonR

You didn't take S-4 then, sorry...? They probably gave you some liquid cheap AAS... This is the more likely option

If I understand this correctly he was on a diet on the 2:nd bloodtests. That might be why it was lower.

Diet lowers your testosterone . A more fat-rich diet has for exaple been shown to increase testosterone with 30%.