Is this a Good Idea?

[Crulexis]

Was thinking of doing a cycle as follows, not sure If I should or not....

1Month SARM'S @ 50MG /5Days 2 Off

6 Weeks Hella (75MG) + Epistane (45MG) Cycle

4 to 6 Week PCT with SARMS at 60MG or so /5Days 2 Off

For more information on the two steroids on top:
Hella: 4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-1, 4-diene-3-17b-diol - 25 mg.
Epistrong: 15mg - 2a, 3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol

PCT
Clomid @ 25 to 50MG A Day
Sustain Alpha
HCGenerate ( Natural Test Booster.. amazing) Maybe on Cycle & not PCT also

[bass]

i let the more experienced answer it for you, but i recommend to stay on S4 7 days a week until you are done with it, no time off...

where can i learn about HCGenerate, and who makes it? i am assuming its a supplement...

[Necrosaro]

Cycle experience? Age? Stats? All that stuff is needed to help you along the way.

Keep it simple to 50mgs a day everyday and not missing a day and leave the other stuff out. If you feel like you need the clomid I would run it at 50mgs for about 2 weeks. That is my suggestion.

[Crulexis]

Thanks guys... I"m not sure if I'm allowed to post the supplier site.. I don't work for him or anything.. here's the website http://www.Needtobuildmuscle.net
HCGenerate is honestly the best natural Test booster I've ever used... can feel it working in 3 days..

Anyways, I'm 24 years old, 205Pounds , 5'11 BF Around 14-15%
Been working out for almost 8 years, with a small break, past experience is with Pheraplex and lots of other crap..

Goals: Get into the one digit BF % and not lose much muscle...

[Crulexis]

I heard 5 days on 2 off is good to avoid vision problems, but I'm not sure anymore

[bass]

Thanks guys... I"m not sure if I'm allowed to post the supplier site.. I don't work for him or anything.. here's the website http://www.Needtobuildmuscle.net
HCGenerate is honestly the best natural Test booster I've ever used... can feel it working in 3 days..

Anyways, I'm 24 years old, 205Pounds , 5'11 BF Around 14-15%
Been working out for almost 8 years, with a small break, past experience is with Pheraplex and lots of other crap..

Goals: Get into the one digit BF % and not lose much muscle...

thanks for the info, if its legal supplements you can post it, as longs as they are not AAS suppliers...

as for the vision, it normally takes 7-15 days to go away, so 2 days won't do any good, its better to have the S4 in your body 24/7 since half shelf life is only 4-6 hours, and probably that’s when you need it the most, while resting...

[Crulexis]

Yea he only sells legal supplements, so no problems.

Hmm, if it's only 4-6 hours, and I take it twice a day, theirs a gap where it's not in my body... Should I try splitting the dose into 3 doses per day?

[bass]

yes, i would split it in 25mgs. i guess if you take a total of 50mgs per day then you will have a gap anyway, but its better than nothing. if you do S4 only there is no need for PCT, and if you decide to do S4 only i highly recommend 100mgs per day split into 4 every 4 hours, or 75mgs per day split into 3 every 6 hours. remember, even if half life is 4 hours it doesn't mean it fades away completly after 4 hours, it will taper down gradually for another 4 hours...my last cycle was at 100mgs a day, now i am on a light cycle of 25mgs a day one dose in the morning, this just to help with cutting and strength...

[endus]

Was thinking of doing a cycle as follows, not sure If I should or not....

1Month SARM'S @ 50MG /5Days 2 Off

6 Weeks Hella (75MG) + Epistane (45MG) Cycle

4 to 6 Week PCT with SARMS at 60MG or so /5Days 2 Off

For more information on the two steroids on top:
Hella: 4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-1, 4-diene-3-17b-diol - 25 mg.
Epistrong: 15mg - 2a, 3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol

PCT
Clomid @ 25 to 50MG A Day
Sustain Alpha
HCGenerate ( Natural Test Booster.. amazing) Maybe on Cycle & not PCT also

What is hella - is that H-drol clone? Is is Methyl based?

I would just do your PH first, then PCT, then S4 as bridge. Also I would not do any OTC test booster while doing PCT. Either clomid or nolva will automatically work to raise natural production. I did a similar cycle last year (bold/havoc) and did nolva (20/20/10/10/10) which was more than enough. Make sure you take cycle/liver supp. Good luck

[Crulexis]

Yea It's Methylated for sure, both of them are (Epistrong)
I was only interested in doing SARM'S Post cycle to keep most of my gains + Strength , If I do it after the PCT it would kinda be too late no?

[endus]

Yea It's Methylated for sure, both of them are (Epistrong)
I was only interested in doing SARM'S Post cycle to keep most of my gains + Strength , If I do it after the PCT it would kinda be too late no?

Those two should do well to get the gains and I guess do the S4 during PCT/bridge to keep the gain. Only other reason might be to help with your joints as many have said it helped with their joints. It didn't really do anything for me.

The havoc (epi cousin) really did me in. My joint were brittle and I'm still paying for it today (left knee - had no problem before that). So make sure you take everything under the sun for joint support.

[lifterjaydawg]

take away any ph's and just go with the sarms for a cycle, and i don't think you need any pct for it.

[Blaster22]

yes, i would split it in 25mgs. i guess if you take a total of 50mgs per day then you will have a gap anyway, but its better than nothing. if you do S4 only there is no need for PCT, and if you decide to do S4 only i highly recommend 100mgs per day split into 4 every 4 hours, or 75mgs per day split into 3 every 6 hours. remember, even if half life is 4 hours it doesn't mean it fades away completly after 4 hours, it will taper down gradually for another 4 hours...my last cycle was at 100mgs a day, now i am on a light cycle of 25mgs a day one dose in the morning, this just to help with cutting and strength...

How is your light cycle working for you right now?

[bass]

its working on the joint pains, but no energy or strength at this point, this will take a while anyway, I believe it took about a week to 10 days to feel something and that was at 75-100mgs. also it started effecting my vision.

[mitbar23]

after reading this thread i did a search for this hcghenerate and found this info, not sure if it will help but here it is.

1. nolva/Clomid both raise shbg.
This is something I do not see a lot of people disusing so I I wanted to make it well know. Just do a web search on Tamoxifen ,Clomid or nolva raises shbg or any variation and you will get all the studies and prof you need.
Trait Anxiety and Tamoxifen Effects on Bone Mineral Density and Sex Hormone- Binding Globulin -- Cameron et al. 64 (4): 612 -- Psychosomatic Medicine
iHOP - Information Hyperlinked over Proteins [ SHBG ]
Sex Hormone Binding Globulin in Clinical Perspective; Acta Obstetricia et Gynecologica Scandinavica - 66(3):Pages 255-262 - Informa Healthcare
Wiley InterScience :: Session Cookies

2. nolva lowers IGF-1 Again just a simple search on (Tamoxifen or nolva lowers IGF 1 and walla you got all the prof you need.

In This Issue -- 82 (21): 1661 -- JNCI Journal of the National Cancer Institute
http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/cg.../49/7/1882.pdf
Effect of low dose tamoxifen on the insulin -like growth factor system in healthy women
Comparison of Tamoxifen and Testosterone Propionate in Male Rats: Differential Prevention of Orchidectomy Effects on Sex Organs, Bone Mass, Growth, and the Growth Hormone -IGF-I Axis -- Fitts et al. 25 (4): 523 -- Journal of Andrology


3. nolva or Clomid do not lower estrogen!!!!!!!! And when you come off of its not uncommon to have a estrogen rebound.

4. They can cause Major triglyceride and glucose problems and even to the point of Severe hypertriglyceridemia or also Pancreatitis

Severe hypertriglyceridemia caused by tamoxifen-tr... [Endocr J. 1997] - PubMed result
Tamoxifen-induced hypertriglyceridemia in association with diabetes mellitus - EM|consulte
SpringerLink - Journal Article
Capecitabine-Induced Severe Hypertriglyceridemia: Report of Two Cases -- Kurt et al. 40 (2): 328 -- The Annals of Pharmacotherapy
Elsevier: Article Locator
Estrogen and Triglycerides
http://annonc.oxfordjournals.org/cgi.../11/8/1067.pdf
WikiGenes - Hypertriglyceridemia

So Yes I have heard it all before that Clomid and nolva work to help recover HPTA. That is great and I am not arguing that fact. However This still does not negate these 4 simple facts ^^^^ and for the people who love to scream test results,test results test results. Well here Here ya go ^^^ test results, enjoy the . So Even people who love using nolva and Clomid for PCT should be able to agree that there is room for improvement.

Enter Hcgenerate!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What is HCGenerate?
HCGenerate is a natural testosterone booster that stimulates the body's own production of testosterone . It is totally legal while being the strongest over the counter PCT on the market today!
What is it used for?
· Post cycle therapy
· Stimulating sexual arousal
· Prevention of testosterone shutdown
. Natural muscle building cycles
Benefits of HCGenerate:
· helps prevent erectile disfunction
· keeps muscle gains higher
· assists liver function
· promotes better mood and feeling of well being
· prevents rapid reductions in IGF
· increases DHEA and free testosterone
· improves HDL
· totally legal
· no injections
. lowers shbg
.to name a few, however, this is not an all inclusive list of benefits!
HCGenerate:Supplement facts
Serving size: 5 capsules x 30 servings per container.
Fadogia Agrestis.................1000
Fenugreek PE (50% testofen).....1000
3,4 Divanillyltetrahydrofuran....500
Bulgarian Tribulus Terrestre: 500mg
Vitamin E.......................200
LJ:100..........................100
Zinc............................7mg





The first Ingredient in Hcgenerate
Fadogia Agrestis.................1000

http://www.***************.com/resea...20agrestis.pdf

studies have show that it does in fact raise lh levels and testosterone levels . Not only this but be sure to check the feed back threads posted at the end so you can see its effects do work.


The second Ingredient
Fenugreek PE (50% testofen).....1000

This is a cool one because it has been shown to
1. Promote healthy glucose levels and healthy sugar metabolism By assisting the pancreas in production of insulin.

Fenugreek supports healthy blood sugar levels
Fenugreek enters modern medicine

A few more interesting facts about Fenugreek is that it has shown to mimic testosterone by binding to the testosterone receptor sites and creating "testosterone like activity"

Just like nolva can bind to different receptors and "act like" and even "exhibit" estrogen "like activity" yet not lower the bodies estrogen at all well doing so or even suppress estrogen production. So can other things like testofen bind to and "act like" and "exhibit" testosterone "like activity" with out having any effect on test production its self what so ever.

So this works very well during PCT when the bodies natural testosterone is low. Helping to prevent the lost of muscle that one gets when coming off of cycle.


The 3rd ingredient
3,4 Divanillyltetrahydrofuran....500

3,4 divan has shown in multiple studies to have the highest binding affinity for SHBG of all lignans investigated thus far,Thus is lowers shbg and increases free test, and we threw in a huge dose of it.
3,4 Divanillyltetrahydrofuran
3,4-Divanillyltetrahydrofuran; A Potent testosterone Booster
Interaction of lignans with human sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG).
Schottner M, Gansser D, Spiteller G.
Lehrstuhl Organische Chemie I, Universitat Bayreuth, Germany.

Lignans bind to sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG). The lignan with the highest binding affinity is (+/ )-3,4-divanillyltetrahydrofuran. In a double Stobbe condensation--without use of protecting groups--a wide variety of lignans with different substitution pattern in the aromatic and aliphatic part of the molecule was synthesized. These lignans were tested in a SHBG-binding assay which allowed to deduce the following relationship between structure and activity: 1) (+/-)-diastereoisomers are more active than meso compounds 2.) the 4-hydroxy-3-methoxy (guajacyl) substitution pattern in the aromatic part is most effective 3.) the activity increases with the decline in polarity of the aliphatic part of the molecule.


Lignans from the roots of Urtica dioica and their metabolites bind to human sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG).
Schottner M, Gansser D, Spiteller G.
Lehrstuhl Organische Chemie I, Universitat Bayreuth, Germany.

Polar extracts of the stinging nettle (Urtica dioica L.) roots contain the ligans (+)-neoolivil, (-) secoisolariciresinol, dehydrodiconiferyl alcohol, isolariciresinol, pinoresinol, and 3,4 divanillyltetrahydrofuran. These compounds were either isolated from Urtica roots, or obtained semisynthetically. Their affinity to human sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) was tested in an in vitro assay. In addition, the main intestinal transformation products of plant lignans in humans, enterodiol and enterolactone, together with enterofuran were checked for their activity. All lignans except (-) pinoresinol developed a binding affinity to SHBG in the in vitro assay. The affinity of (-)-3,4 divanillyltetrahydrofuran was outstandingly high These findings are discussed with respect to potential beneficial effects of plant lignans on benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH).


3,4 Divanillyltetrahydrofuran also promote the secondary messenger nitric oxide (NO) by increasing its main enzyme eNOS (endothelial nitric oxide synthase). As NO is postulated to be one of the key triggers for muscle cell proliferation and growth while also promoting muscular pumps in the gym, this aspect of3,4 Divanillyltetrahydrofuran leads to fuller muscles that you can see and feel, thus providing significant mental motivation.


4th Bulgarian Tribulus Terrestre: 500mg

Debated for years now. Some swear by it and some say its junk. A few studies have show that it raises test levels and some of disproved this as well. Studies do however show that it Heightens sexual arousal. And I believe this is more do to its Ability to Up regulate androgen/sex hormone receptors in the brain. So in other words it makes them respond better.

ScienceDirect - Journal of Ethnopharmacology : Effect of Tribulus terrestris on nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide phosphate-diaphorase activity and androgen receptors in rat brain

5th added Ingredient
Vitamin E.......................200

Many studies have shown the Zinc suplamentation can have an positive effect on IGF.

Furthermore we have all seen studies showing V-e's protective effect on Leydig cell steroidogenesis

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...bf2cc4ac924ab5

6th Add on is
LJ100
LJ100 Eurycoma longifolia extract
Study Indicates LJ100 Eurycoma longifolia extract Safely Promotes Anabolic Balance During Endurance Exercise :: News :: Natural and Nutritional Products Industry Center

About LJ 100®

LJ100® is a standardized, freeze-dried Eurycoma longifolia extract, containing 40% glycosaponins and 22% eurypeptides, a bioactive glycoprotein that is now clinically proven for its androgenic properties. LJ100® has undergone a patented BAT extraction process to capture 22% biologically active eurypeptides, proven in research to be responsible for increasing libido, improving sports performance, increasing fertility, and activating the enzymes that metabolize the various androgens.

Created by the original researchers at the Forest Research Institute of Malaysia (FRIM), University of Malaya, and Massachusetts Institute of Technology, LJ100® (22% bioactive eurypeptides) has shown - in human clinical trials - an ability to increase DHEA and free testosterone, decrease Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG), improve HDL, modulate cortisol, and increase IGF-1 level.

[spywizard]

hcgenerate, I've run the product and all i can say is that it was very very effective in increasing sexual desire, and volume production, testicular "growth/fullness" were experienced after 3-4 days..

I ran it at a 3x recommended dose, and have run it at the normal dose and it has been effective both times..

[Crulexis]

I don't know how this thread turned to being about HCGenerate... but I gotta say it really is an amazing product... A staple of my PCT or ON-Cycle Needs for sure....

Anyways, for anyone saying to run the SARMS on their own, I don't see the benefit of that? Is'nt it more efficient to stack it with a Prohoromone or 2 ... and get the full effects of both worlds? Since they both work differently...

After further thinking things through, I've decided to perhaps run the SARM'S @ 60MG ED for 3 weeks (During Cycle of PRO'S) TO help with joint issues and get some extra STR... take 2 weeks off while still on the PRO'S And start again at 60MG ED for PCT for 1 MONTH.

I figured since I'm already suppressing my TEST during cycle why not add SARM'S To it? ... and using it in PCT makes sence to maintain my gains + STR

Thoughts comments?

[Necrosaro]

We all start with just sarms to see how it will affect us to better judge any probelms that happen while on it. Same goes with test.

[MMA732]

Interesting log.