Is it essential to always use an anti-estrogen on cycle?

**Rickyboy999** · 06-22-2014, 02:48 PM

If someone does not suffer from gyno issues should he still use Arimidex or Nolva? And for those of you who do use one, is eliminating estrogen a good idea? Surely we need some in our bodies??

**numbere** · 06-22-2014, 03:47 PM

Dex and stane are AIs that reduce E2 levles by blocking the aromatase enzyme. An AI is used on cycle only. Nolva and clomid are SERMs they bind to E2 receptors blocking the suppressive effect of E2 on LH and to some degree FSH. SERMs are used for PCT. Although nolva can be used to treat on cycle gyno symptoms, rolax is a better choice for gyno treatment.

An AI should be used when on cycle to keep E2 levels in range and prevent gyno from ever being an issue.

Eliminating E2 is not a good idea. It is essential for men to have healthy levels of E2 to maintain wellness. Our goal while on cycle is to keep E2 levels within range.

**Rickyboy999** · 06-23-2014, 12:18 AM

Originally Posted by numbere

Dex and stane are AIs that reduce E2 levles by blocking the aromatase enzyme. An AI is used on cycle only. Nolva and clomid are SERMs they bind to E2 receptors blocking the suppressive effect of E2 on LH and to some degree FSH. SERMs are used for PCT. Although nolva can be used to treat on cycle gyno symptoms, rolax is a better choice for gyno treatment.

An AI should be used when on cycle to keep E2 levels in range and prevent gyno from ever being an issue.

Eliminating E2 is not a good idea. It is essential for men to have healthy levels of E2 to maintain wellness. Our goal while on cycle is to keep E2 levels within range.

Ok so would 0.5mg twice a week of Arimidex be ok whilst on cycle? I don't wanna overdose.

**numbere** · 06-23-2014, 07:35 AM

In the future you should provide your stats and cycle experience along with your question. Stats help the person trying to answer your question get a better understanding of your situation.

The baseline dosage for dex is 0.25-0.50mg/EOD when on 500-600mg/week of test. You should begin taking dex at 0.25mg every other day. Everyone's body chemistry is different. This is why you should start with the recommended dosage, have BW have way through your cycle, then adjust your AI accordingly.

The following links talk about AI dosage in more detail. It would be in your best interest to read both.

Ancillary Reference Guide

Aromasin (Exemestane) vs. Arimidex (Anastrozole) Unraveled

**jimmyinkedup** · 06-23-2014, 12:06 PM

Estrogen should always be manged. Not allowed to go too high (gyno is not our only concern, it isnt even the most dangerous believe it or not) and low e2 is just as bad in some ways. You want to keep e2 levels within clinical range while on cycle. I like just under 30 but under 50 withiut symptoms works fine for some and that is just out of one standard useed for clinical range. It should always be managed with an ai while on cycle IMO.

**Times Roman** · 06-23-2014, 12:21 PM

My E always seems to be in range. I've checked a few times, pre TRT, then on TRT, and then on cycle. I never take an AI

some don't need it. I'm not gyno prone. and my body fat, although not ideal, is at 15% or below

**DontTaseMeBro** · 06-23-2014, 01:28 PM

Gyno is a symptom that your estrogen is high, but it is not the only problem. By the time you notice the gyno, your body is already suffering the effects of increased estrogen. To get it down quickly, you can use rolax and nolva; but there is a fine line between quickly reducing it and crashing it (which will make you feel like complete sh!t). The better plan is to stop it from getting out of hand in the first place. I use exemestane and find it works well. I would start at 12.5 mg every day for the first two weeks and then up it to 12.5 twice a day for the remainder of your cycle. Do blood work when you are 6 or 7 weeks into your cycle and adjust as necessary. At 6 weeks into my last cycle, my E2 was up, but only slightly and still easily within range, so I upped my dosage to 15 mg (or slightly less) twice a day. It is possible that you are lucky like TR and don't need an AI; however, I think that is the exception rather than the rule. Better to be safe than sorry.

**Rickyboy999** · 06-23-2014, 01:31 PM

Apologies for lack of info....Im 43, was 205lbs at 15% b/f, and recently cut to 180 at 10% b/f......Im 5'7". Done a few cycles in the past. I will be running:

Tren ace Weeks 1-10 75mg EOD
Test Cyp Weeks 1-10 200 mg p/week
Clen 2 weeks on/off throughout
Anavar Weeks 5-10 50mg p/day
Caber .5mg twice a week throughout
Arimidex as discussed

Then HCG /Clomid/DAA for PCT.

**numbere** · 06-23-2014, 05:29 PM

Don't sweat it bro. You have some nice stats BTW.

I'm not sure of you already know this, but test c has a long ester and tren ace has a short ester. Meaning you will begin feeling the effects from the tren in week 1 and the test won't kick in until around week 4-6.

You should consider modifying your cycle.

**MuscleInk** · 06-23-2014, 05:40 PM

As already mentioned, far greater threats to your overall health from elevated estrogen than just gyno. Far too many guys focus solely on managing E2 to prevent gyno. Sure, it's unpleasant, but managing E2 is far more important to immune and cardiac health. Elevated estrogen carries a higher risk of thromboses, peripheral artery diseases, prostate enlargement, impaired wound healing and more.

Starting dose is of Adex is generally 0.25mg EOD due to the half life of the compound.

HCG mimics LH albeit through a slightly different pathway. HCG should be used DURING your cycle to maintain functional integrity of leydig cells and NOT during your PCT where HCG can prolong recovery.

**rollingthunder** · 06-23-2014, 05:43 PM

[QUOTE= and my body fat, although not ideal, is at 15% or below[/QUOTE]

dude...how is that NOT ideal!

**Rickyboy999** · 06-24-2014, 12:12 AM

Originally Posted by rollingthunder

dude...how is that NOT ideal!

Well I just looked waterey tbh.....

**NACH3** · 06-28-2014, 07:40 AM

BTW FELLAS/FELLET's This thread is loaded w/great info!!!!
Has answered some ?'s regarding more sides of estrogen/E2, as that I wasn't aware of( mostly the sides of high/low E2, Thanks & much appreciated...

OP, like stated many X's above... You always want to run an AI AS WELL as hCG from the start of your cycle( both Sid in preventing side effects while they are different in what sides they do prevent!

hCG - mimics LH(Leutinizing Hormone) and to some degree FSH! hCG will help your leydig cells(cells which help frequency of sperm, motility, etc)... And is also used for men with Low T and low sperm count, to bring the fertility up for ones who suffer from this - me included!

AI's(as it states clearly in Red ink below reply to threads("it is ESSENTIAL to always use an ANTI-ESTROGEN while ON CYCLE)!!! IMO... I like Exemestane (Aromasin ), as it's a Suicidal AI, harder IMO to crash your E2! But, many others will go w/Adex(Arimidex ) as well... Which is also a great go to AI(starting dose would be .25mg EOD... And if your body needs it then up to .5mg EOD till your body is reacting fine without any side effects!!!

Good luck my man!!!

**Rickyboy999** · 06-30-2014, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by NACH3

BTW FELLAS/FELLET's This thread is loaded w/great info!!!!
Has answered some ?'s regarding more sides of estrogen/E2, as that I wasn't aware of( mostly the sides of high/low E2, Thanks & much appreciated...

OP, like stated many X's above... You always want to run an AI AS WELL as hCG from the start of your cycle( both Sid in preventing side effects while they are different in what sides they do prevent!

hCG - mimics LH(Leutinizing Hormone) and to some degree FSH! hCG will help your leydig cells(cells which help frequency of sperm, motility, etc)... And is also used for men with Low T and low sperm count, to bring the fertility up for ones who suffer from this - me included!

AI's(as it states clearly in Red ink below reply to threads("it is ESSENTIAL to always use an ANTI-ESTROGEN while ON CYCLE)!!! IMO... I like Exemestane (Aromasin ), as it's a Suicidal AI, harder IMO to crash your E2! But, many others will go w/Adex(Arimidex ) as well... Which is also a great go to AI(starting dose would be .25mg EOD... And if your body needs it then up to .5mg EOD till your body is reacting fine without any side effects!!!

Good luck my man!!!

Thanks bro!

**kelkel** · 06-30-2014, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by Rickyboy999

Apologies for lack of info....Im 43, was 205lbs at 15% b/f, and recently cut to 180 at 10% b/f......Im 5'7". Done a few cycles in the past. I will be running:

Tren ace Weeks 1-10 75mg EOD
Test Cyp Weeks 1-10 200 mg p/week
Clen 2 weeks on/off throughout
Anavar Weeks 5-10 50mg p/day
Caber .5mg twice a week throughout
Arimidex as discussed

Then HCG/Clomid/DAA for PCT.

Off point a bit but if you are making an effort to control your estrogen you could easily cut your caber back to .25mg twice per week imho. It's more than enough to suppress your prolactin and you can save the excess for your next cycle, etc.

**Rickyboy999** · 07-04-2014, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by kelkel

Off point a bit but if you are making an effort to control your estrogen you could easily cut your caber back to .25mg twice per week imho. It's more than enough to suppress your prolactin and you can save the excess for your next cycle, etc.

Ok cheers bro.

**Gorgos** · 07-05-2014, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by numbere

In the future you should provide your stats and cycle experience along with your question. Stats help the person trying to answer your question get a better understanding of your situation.

The baseline dosage for dex is 0.25-0.50mg/EOD when on 500-600mg/week of test. You should begin taking dex at 0.25mg every other day. Everyone's body chemistry is different. This is why you should start with the recommended dosage, have BW have way through your cycle, then adjust your AI accordingly.

The following links talk about AI dosage in more detail. It would be in your best interest to read both.

Great post sir. Im on 350mg EW testo e only and I had around 220(much?) in estrogen/eastradiol and recommended is below 160 here in Sweden. Should I put an AI or is it rather "ok" value? Ive ordered arimidex today just to reduce estrogen in the future when Im gonna go for 500ew.

**numbere** · 07-05-2014, 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by Judesvinet

Great post sir. Im on 350mg EW testo e only and I had around 220(much?) in estrogen/eastradiol and recommended is below 160 here in Sweden. Should I put an AI or is it rather "ok" value? Ive ordered arimidex today just to reduce estrogen in the future when Im gonna go for 500ew.

If that measurement is in pmol/L then your serum is way too high. You need to begin taking an AI ASAP to get it below 160-180. High E2 is very unhealthy. You may only notice ED, water retention, or breast changes. However, high E2 poses a much greater risk to your cardiovascular system by increasing the chance of having a heart attack and stroke.

**Gorgos** · 07-05-2014, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by numbere

If that measurement is in pmol/L then your serum is way too high. You need to begin taking an AI ASAP to get it below 160-180. High E2 is very unhealthy. You may only notice ED, water retention, or breast changes. However, high E2 poses a much greater risk to your cardiovascular system by increasing the chance of having a heart attack and stroke.

But my bloodvalues were perfect, shouldnt they be affected of my high E2? Anyway Im getting my AI tue-wed so I will start then, 0.5 EOD? So far only water retention everything else is fine and Ive been on for 15 weeks,.

Heart attack and stroke feels unrealistic Im only 30, perfect condition and no issues in my family with heart problems.

**numbere** · 07-05-2014, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by Judesvinet

But my bloodvalues were perfect, shouldnt they be affected of my high E2? Anyway Im getting my AI tue-wed so I will start then, 0.5 EOD? So far only water retention everything else is fine and Ive been on for 15 weeks,.

Heart attack and stroke feels unrealistic Im only 30, perfect condition and no issues in my family with heart problems.

Lol your BW is far from perfect, your E2 is 38% higher than the recommended range. That AI dosage seems fine. Bro you are in denial, your not in perfect condition you have an e2 level of 220. I'm not saying that your going to have a thrombosis tomorrow if you don't get on an AI. I am merely trying to convey the message that the worst heath risks you face are cardiovascular in nature, not gyno. You can feel gyno but you can't feel a thrombosis until it's too late.

**Gorgos** · 07-06-2014, 03:32 AM

Originally Posted by numbere

Lol your BW is far from perfect, your E2 is 38% higher than the recommended range. That AI dosage seems fine. Bro you are in denial, your not in perfect condition you have an e2 level of 220. I'm not saying that your going to have a thrombosis tomorrow if you don't get on an AI. I am merely trying to convey the message that the worst heath risks you face are cardiovascular in nature, not gyno. You can feel gyno but you can't feel a thrombosis until it's too late.

I just ment that everything in my "complete health test" only showed high E2, then I thought It might be okey since everything else looked good. Thank you for your help sir.

**kelkel** · 07-06-2014, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by numbere

Lol your BW is far from perfect, your E2 is 38% higher than the recommended range. That AI dosage seems fine. Bro you are in denial, your not in perfect condition you have an e2 level of 220. I'm not saying that your going to have a thrombosis tomorrow if you don't get on an AI. I am merely trying to convey the message that the worst heath risks you face are cardiovascular in nature, not gyno. You can feel gyno but you can't feel a thrombosis until it's too late.

Very well said.

**numbere** · 07-06-2014, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by kelkel

Very well said.

Thanks kelkel. That means a lot to me coming from you.

**Chicagotarsier** · 07-07-2014, 05:13 AM

Nolva on cycle is fine..but not as an AI. It is the second best lipid control you can use next to lipitor.

You should see about 3% of your bodweight disappear within 2 days of lowering your oestrogen. HUGE bloat indicator.

My first question would be this......Why 200 cypionate ? Lower it to a real trt dose (70-90 a week) and your estrogen should drop to in range right in the middle. Tren does not aromatise. I notice very little estrogen increase from Var. I do agree 200 cyp will put you out of range in the E2 area. Drop to a real trt dose and be done with it if you do not want to take an AI. This is why 200 test cyp trt doses are BS in my opinion. I doubt you would miss it on cycle.