Sustanon and Newbies!!

[Anhydro78]

I have never heard one single person yet say they want to take 875mg+ of sustanon every week. The only people I see wanting to even use Sustanon is New Users. I put Sustanon in the same catagory as Test Propoinate. If you are an unexperianced user I would never suggest using anything that required E/D to Eo/D injections. I keep on seeing posts where a guy wants to use Sustanon when only cycling 250-500mgs a week. As far as im concerned this compound should be the last choice for someone that only wants 250-500mgs of Test every week. Test Prop in a multiuse vial will be more conveinant for you but still not the best choice for a first cycle.

Keep in mind that no matter what any of your buddys tell you in the Gym. Sustanon has no additional benifit over a single estered Testosterone. It doesnt work better or less. Its all the same. Someone starts talking well this causes bloat and this doesnt relize this is a very individual side effect. My point to all this is why bother splitting a single CC of testosterone into Eo/d injections through the week. Get you a bottle of a single estered Testosterone and make life easier for your self.

Can one person even name one added benifit to taking Sustanon????

[almostgone]

Nope, ....

[dragon cycle]

true

[Natural Mac]

I believe it looks good to the newbies because on paper it looks like it will kick in immediately (as with the short esters and all). If they only knew the pain they're in for by using Sust on their first cycle, they wouldn't consider it at all.

[tubbytank]

Can one person even name one added benifit to taking Sustanon????

Sustanon is human grade test. Most other test enth's are all vet products. While there may not be a huge difference,who here would choose vet or human grade if given the choice?

Furthermore, the MERC manual (well respected medical text) points to the much higher chance of liver cysts/bleeding and a few other nasties than what sustanon does.

[tubbytank]

that should be vet over human grade sorry

[Anhydro78]

Agreed that Human grade should be favored over Vet grade but many UG labs make enanthate. And there is a few Human versions of Enanthate as well. I get your point though. My thing is If I could get Sustanon cheaper than other human grade versions I would most likely use it again. I have used it in two cycles allready with good results. My point is that Newbies seem to favor this compound over other products for what ever reason. I believe it is just gym talk hype. I would like to know if this is the most available form of testosterone or if people are going out of there way to buy this stuff and split CC's up through the week storing syringes with partial doses in them.

And I keep hearing people trying to shedule dosing every 3-7 days. Refusing to take the advise of experianced users to shedule dosing every other day. Whats really neat is when I hear people claim that omnadren has more severe bloat and sides compared to Sustanon.

[tubbytank]

I am natural so far, but will be considering a cycle very soon. I originally was going to go with test enth, however I have since changed my mind. Below I will post some direct quotes from my friend who is a dr., and has researched this for me. I have discussed many things with him, that I have recieved from this forum. It may be slightly off topic but I will post it for everyone's info. Hope it helps.


"I must admit, that because, in the medical world, this stuff is illegal,
there are limited controlled trials to get the hard facts, and so, people
end up relying on trial and error. Because of this, and because most people
just say what they did, or what happened to them, the info is not as
accurate as you'd like.

Basically, all testosterone molecules at high doses, will increase the risk
of side effects. I don't think it would really matter that much. However,
in the MIMS, it definitely says worse things for the Primotestin compared
with Sustanon.

Definitely, the benefit of Sustanon is in the short acting esters to get
things moving quickly.

Sorry, but site injection making that muscle get bigger compared with other
muscles is crap. You have to remember how it works. Testosterone goes into
the bloodstream, then goes onto receptors which basically encourages the
muscles used to grow. So, it goes away from the site into the blood. It
has nothing to do with the site of injection. So, glut or quad are only
options as they are the biggest muscles, and it would hurt too much
elsewhere.


The esters are broken down into testosterone as soon as they enter the
circulation. Peak concentrations of testosterone(70 nmol/L) are reached
24-48 hours later. Plasma testosterone levels return to lower limit of
normal range about 21 days later.
MIMS doesn't say much more than this.

What it means is that test. levels go very high in the first 2 days, then
slowly taper over the next few weeks.
I disagree with what you said the forum said. A graph of it would look
like - rapid rise, then plateau, then slowly dropping to lower than the
start. There would be no up/down crap. This stuff is basically pure
testosterone and it is in your system for 21 days. How would your levels
drop except for the slow drop after 48 hours? I'm not sure where they get
their info. from. Sure, the testosterone level varies from minute to
minute, but once you've had the injection, its in your system and the minute
changes is just the body getting it from the storage depot in your butt
cheek.
All this means is that twice weekly Sustanon 250's would keep testosterone
levels at high levels continuously.
So, you don't need it for longer to get the long esters working, as they
work straight away, just not as superfast as the short ones. i.e. days
instead of hours.

If you are going to do steroids, I would keep it as simple as possible.
e.g. Sustanon 250mg twice a week for ?6-12weeks depending on how you go.
Tamoxifen 10mg - 20mg daily, only if you get gynaecomastia - if you did
start to get gynaecomastia, a doctor may prescribe it.
Clomid at the end, if you can get it - not sure of dose required, but would
start at lowest.

I wouldn't bother with pyramiding or whatever. There just isn't enough
quality research to tell that one way is better than another. And, really
it doesn't matter that much, as testosterone builds muscle no matter what.
Once its in, and you're lifting heavy weights, the muscles will grow, no
question. The real question is: how long will they stay there?"

[Anhydro78]

Ill have to say that for a doctor he knows more than most of them do.

Here is the Half lifes of the esters in Sustanon

testosterone propionate (30 mg)4.5day halflife testosterone phenylpropionate (60 mg)4.5days testosterone isocaproate (60mg) 9 days testosterone decanoate (100 mg) 15 days

Its this easy. the Isocaproate and Deconate ester would have to be injected only twice a week for consistant levels. Where you are gonna see a rollar coaster is with the propionate and the phenylpropionate being injected only bi weekly. If you have any experiance with Propionate you will notice a difference between E/D Eo/D E3/D. At every 3 days you will notice a definate up and down with the injections. Eo/D is ok But it seems even better with E/D injections of this ester.

For a while there I was thinking that there was something wrong with Sustanon because these boards are littered with storys of people getting sick on it (Test Flu) What Einstein pointed out to me is that the reason this people are getting sick from this particular drug is because people refuse to take it in a manner that keeps a consistant blood levels. ANd with high doses thats when sides start to happen.

[briansauras]

Ill have to say that for a doctor he knows more than most of them do.

Here is the Half lifes of the esters in Sustanon

testosterone propionate (30 mg)4.5day halflife testosterone phenylpropionate (60 mg)4.5days testosterone isocaproate (60mg) 9 days testosterone decanoate (100 mg) 15 days

Its this easy. the Isocaproate and Deconate ester would have to be injected only twice a week for consistant levels. Where you are gonna see a rollar coaster is with the propionate and the phenylpropionate being injected only bi weekly. If you have any experiance with Propionate you will notice a difference between E/D Eo/D E3/D. At every 3 days you will notice a definate up and down with the injections. Eo/D is ok But it seems even better with E/D injections of this ester.

For a while there I was thinking that there was something wrong with Sustanon because these boards are littered with storys of people getting sick on it (Test Flu) What Einstein pointed out to me is that the reason this people are getting sick from this particular drug is because people refuse to take it in a manner that keeps a consistant blood levels. ANd with high doses thats when sides start to happen.

I thought that doctor just said that there is no proof of it giving you unstable blood levels, since in treated patients are dosed 250mg every 2-3wks...What if this was taking at 250mg twice a week, on Saturday and Wednesday, for 8wks

[ToJuice,OrNotToJuice]

I got a buddy that took sust on his first cycle, told me he thought that crap was dirty, was super hard on his system, said he would never touch sust again

[Anhydro78]

The propionate and Phenlypropionate will still spike and go down. The half life of unestered testosterone is only 1 day. So once the ester is removed it only stays active for 2 days. if you take anything with prop in it every 3 days you are gonna still see a rollar coaster effect. I assume that Sustanon was intended for HRT, where it may not be as much of a concern to keep consistant blood levels at a low dose. But for body building purposes you want to keep a consistant level. With High doses this is really important.

Heres the problem with getting your steroid information from doctors. They are taught that steroids have not been prooven to enhance athletic performance. It says this in their Desk reference Guide. What they have been trained to do with Hormone Replacement Therapy has nothing to do with Body building or power lifting. I have seen some intresting articles from HRT doctors .. They dont even study the effects of Androgenic Hormones on trained athletes in this country. Other countrys do but this one seems to refuse to. They never want to produce a study that shows positive benifits from steroids.

[Anhydro78]

Brewski If you must take Sustanon at a dose lower than 875mgs a week you will have to split the single ampules into different syringes to hold till your next injection. basically 1/2 a CC every other day is what you need to do to maintain a consistant blood level of testosterone. This is what doesnt make sence to me with using Sustanon at a lower dose.

[tubbytank]

I have to disagree with you anhydro on oyur levels spiking. My friend knows a lot about it, having researched it for bodybuilding pruposes, and not HRT as he was interested in cycling himself.

He is well aware of the long and short esters that comprise sust, and their half life. But test is test. The prop will act more quickly true, but you still have the long esters in your system, just you aren't going to see the results from them straight away. Therefore you still have a a high supply of test in your system all the time, and are not peaking and troughing.
You mention the prop, but forget about the long acting esters that are supplied as well. So where will you fall to? from a fast working ester that is high to a slow acting ester that is also high? Remembr you are not just getting prop with your sust.
I would agree that you should take 250mcg of sust twice a week though, to get the full benifit of the immediacy of the short esters.

What i do not get is that a lot of people on this board dismisses dr's advice, yet they take their advice without thought in regards to medical studies, but then flame them on anything else stating they don;t use steroids for bodybuilding purposes. My friend has researched this from a bodybuilding perspective, and not hormone treatment. Agreed some dr's know **** about how steroids work, but that's where it's up to the individual to sift through the facts.

He as a dr, and understanding the body in it's entirety, is much better equipped to give advice than those who rely on personal experience and opinion. I have shown him everything that I ever wanted to know, including everything about test enth vs sust, fluctuating blood levels. clomid, nolva and pct etc. He has read all this, and given me more.

People can;t choose to believe studies done my medical practitioners, then disregard other medical practitioner advice on the grounds that their not bodybuilders. There is not much true research on bodybuilding and steroids (true difinitive research) and it appears a lot is about opinion and previous exp.

Again, to each his own, but based on the comphrehensive research i have done, along with his research and critiquing of everything i have supplied him, it's all going to come down to personl belief in what you think is best. And that is the best you can do.

[tubbytank]

anhydro, please do not think that my reply is in anyway a flame, because it is not. I am interested in promoting intelligent discussion about sust, and find that some people, if they are disagreed with, get angry.

After all this is how we get informed opionons, which is all we can ask for.

I don;t think you will take it the wrong way, but just making sure....

[Anhydro78]

I can show you 10 places on the internet where it says you can inject Sustanon only every 10 days. But I can also show you 10 places where sites have Deca only cycles listed in there beginner cycles. No matter what anyone tells you, there is no studies done here in the United States performed with controled groups of trained athletes and steroids for the purpose of enhancing performance. I can show you some but they are not conducted in this country. Your doctor if he hasnt cycled knows nothing but what someone else is telling him. I can see how you could trust his advise. But the injection frequency is way off for maintaining consistant levels. You could inject it every three days. But that is not the most efficiant way to cycle that drug. Get a book called Anabolics 2004. In there they show graphs of drugs half lifes and how they spike and such.

Theres nothing wrong with what your doctor is telling you. the only mistake is thinking that, that combination of esters perfectly tapers into a consistant base level. The thing is at 250mgs a week a little bit of a spike up and down wouldnt effect you very much but there is many guys on here that have taken Sustanon every 3-10days and get sick due to flucuating hormone levels. When this happens all the side effects come as well. Acne, Bloat and such.

A Bi-weekly injection would be what you would do with a Decanoate ester.

[Anhydro78]

The last thing I am is angry bro. All week I have been reading how new users want to take this drug wrong and I thought I would try to address this issue in one post rather than post in every thread.

[gerard1]

I notice recommended schedules/dosages seem to have changed a lot over the last 10 years. In the old Anabolic Reference Guide for the early/mid 90's, it pretty much made deca sound like the perfect cycle. And there are lots of examples on the net of people claiming to have made great gains on just deca, or 250 sust once a week, etc.
Now, people seem to go on about how you need 4+ different AAS's, and 3 times the previous recommended amounts to get any benefit!!!

OK, so, just out of interest, what results will a 180 pound 15%bf newbie see if they just do 250 sust per week, split into 2 injections (like Monday and Thursday) for the first 6 or 7 weeks, and say at week 4 or 5, add winny 50mg EOD, ending the whole cycle after 8 weeks. Followed by PCT.
Before posting about how ridiculous this sounds, please keep in mind, this is not a 300 pound monster who has already done 50 cycles. And does not want to gain 15-20 pounds. Maybe just 10 lean pounds, and hoping to retain at least half that after the cycle (its for athletics).

thx!!!

[Alexander the Graet]

from experience I can tell u that sustanon is good if used incorrectly but only for the first cycle no matter if u use 250, 500, 750, or 875 or more! the fact that it is the first time that your test level are going to be above normal will give u any kind of result! My first cycle I did 250 for 7 weeks and I gained like 18 lbs and kept like 15! in my second I started at 500 for 6 weeks but did not get good results I changed mid cycle to enanthat 500 week and I gained another 12 lbs which was good for a second cycle for me and lost a lot of BF I am 5'9 195 waist 29 arems 17 legs 25 dont really know my BF% but I feel and look lean not a well defined six pack but a pretty good flat stomach, I started at 168Lbs my first cycle and I was 31 y/o! right now I did the same mistake of using sustanon in my third cycle only this time I went 250 eod but no gains until week six so I changed again to enanthate at 750 a week currently into 3rd week of enanthate and I feel stronger every day and I am begining to gaind lbs and people are begining to notice my muscularity is incresing! so yes single ester is better Go enanthate ! I will never use sutanon again in my life! It was good for the first cycle only! Why bother when I can get primoteston 250 for 7 a vial and suta is 14 a vial! enanthate is more effective and cheaper and also of human grade!

[gerard1]

How often did you inject the enanth? Could you get away with using 250/week on a first cycle? Would it be better than 250 sust?

[Anhydro78]

There is nothing wrong with taking 250 mgs a week for a first cycle. There has been many of people get really good results with just that and diet. Just dont expect to feel jacked up. At that dose it would be hard to tell you are even taking anything. But you will grow. You could take 250mgs of Enanthate every week split into two injections. Or even at that dose you may not even have to split it up im not sure.

And even with the cycle you outlined above with sustanon bi-weekly injections you would grow. The whole point of this post is for a new user or a person using less than an ampule every other day. Its a pain in the azz spliting single ampules into your correct weekly schedule. You risk the other loaded syringes becoming contaminated. Than if you only take twice a week you wont be taking it the most efficiant way, risking test flu, and more side effects.

[Nickster#1]

I believe it looks good to the newbies because on paper it looks like it will kick in immediately (as with the short esters and all). If they only knew the pain they're in for by using Sust on their first cycle, they wouldn't consider it at all.

I am on my first cycle of sust and deca and inject eod and I have absolutely no pain..........in fact I love it!!!!!!!!!