Anavar or Winstrol for newbies

[Showdown]

Which one would be best for a newbie for cutting? Ive read up on both, Anavar seems to have the least amount of complications... Is this recommended for newbies?

[tj979]

Anavar dude, overall the more research I've done on var in the long run is much better, plus winnie has a laundry list of sides. Var is expensive but in the long run I believe you will be much better off, thats just one mans opinion, and also I just ordered my var.

[JohnboyF]

What are you stats?

Age, Years training,weight,height,bf etc....

[Showdown]

Oh I wasnt asking because I was looking to go with one for cutting,lol,Im 5'8,145,last thing I need to do is cut...Looking to go Test E for my 1st cycle,just curious if I got to the point where I needed to cut,which one would be better...As for now,if I cut anymore,you'd be able to see my heart beating! Thanks for the responses...

[JohnboyF]

bro...
at 145 pounds steriods are not your answer...

Diet is! what is your current diet like?

How long have you been training for?

[Kevinjg]

I've never used Anavar, i used Winstrol fro 4 months, They were the 1st steroid i even taken, I gained quality and solid muscle and I kept most of the gains. You wont see a massive increase of size and strength. But to me Winstrol was a good base steroid to start with and i had no side effects what so ever.

[drak909]

anavar is not cheap but is safe.. so.......

[MASTER]

For you, I think food would be superior to both, taken 6-8 times a day, it will get you awesome results.

[spywizard]

anavar is not cheap but is safe.. so.......

really???

it will suppress your test
it will lower the amount of your ejaculate
it will make your testes smaller

you do need PCT
you do need to eat and work out
you do need to protect your liver/kidney

it will make you stronger
it will strip some fat if diet is right
it will make you stronger, but i said that already

good luck

[Jefferey]

Which one would be best for a newbie for cutting? Ive read up on both, Anavar seems to have the least amount of complications... Is this recommended for newbies?

You cut by nutrition not gear....you need some serious research

[mickdiesel]

1-nobody seemed to mention that in the first place u need bloodwork done. however tha is if u were to do juice. which u SHOULDN'T!
2- bloodwork is needed because var will greatly affect your ldl. if u have heart problems or high cholesterol var wil be bad for u. honestly neither would be good cause win causes cardiac hypertrophy. so depending on blood work I'd pick from there
3- do not do either by itslef. alwaysrun it with test. even a little bit. ull feel much better and won't have a noodle for a dick
4- DON'T DO GEAR!!!! u are not ready. get up to at least 170,. and that is if ur one of those real hard gainers who takes a year and a half to gain 5 pounds. if ur normal get up to about 190 at a maximum of 16-18% bf. which is high but I wouldn't say too high.

go from there

[drak909]

really???

it will suppress your test
it will lower the amount of your ejaculate
it will make your testes smaller

you do need PCT
you do need to eat and work out
you do need to protect your liver/kidney

it will make you stronger
it will strip some fat if diet is right
it will make you stronger, but i said that already

good luck

never had those problems with var . and all ppl i know same as me so dunno

in my opinion many of the guys that get sides is just cuz of high dosage or too long cycle
my 2 cents

[perfectbeast2001]

read the "things to consider" post in my sig.

[Showdown]

Wow,guess I have alot to respond to...
1st... Diet/Excercise... Done both... Everyone thinks cause Im at 145,that Ive been there all my life... Before I started lifting regularly I was at 130 or so... With Good diet and lifting Ive gotten to 145... I CANNOT(And Ive tried)get above 155... So the comment about me getting to 170 naturally,lol,aint happening....

You cut by nutrition not gear....you need some serious research

Wow,I couldve sworn gear is used when cutting,I guess 90% of the people on this board who state that they use Winstrol or Anavar durring cutting must need to do some serious research...
Again,I had a general questions about Anavar and Winstrol,never said I was going to use it...
Already had a physical done,and Im in great shape... Been lifting and eating 6+ meals a day... Protein supplements,creatine,multi-vitamins,etc...Done it for years... Wont get me where Im trying to go....
Talked to alot of people off this thread that gave me advice on starting a Test E only cycle to start with... It cracks me up on here when someone states a question,and if they openly say their new and trying to learn almost everyones response is "You dont need to do steroids. Do research,dont take them,your not allowed," Lol,ok,guess I havent "earned" the right to try and take my game to the next level...Basically,I'm just recommending not to try and deter someone from something if you dont know what theyve already tried...

[Showdown]

read the "things to consider" post in my sig.

Thanks,I did yesterday,was some great reading...

[JohnboyF]

[QUOTE=Showdown]Wow,guess I have alot to respond to...
1st... Diet/Excercise... Done both... Everyone thinks cause Im at 145,that Ive been there all my life... Before I started lifting regularly I was at 130 or so... With Good diet and lifting Ive gotten to 145... I CANNOT(And Ive tried)get above 155... So the comment about me getting to 170 naturally,lol,aint happening....


[QUOTE]

Describe your good diet.. Because i still find it hard to belive...

what r u eating right now/currently?

[Showdown]

Im not sure whats so hard to believe about someone having a good diet?

7am: 3 Egg whites,toast,Protein shake(with milk)...
1030am: 1 can of tuna,2 eggs,yogurt
2pm: 2 chicken breasts,brown rice,fruit
430pm:Peanut butter sandwhich,cottage cheese
700pminner,can include many things,usually chicken,potatoes,veggies,etc
1030,or before bed, 2 eggs,oatmeal,protein shake and yogurt...
Also,anytime Im hungry between meals,Ill sneak in peanut butter,protein bar,eggs,etc...This is roughly what my diet consist of...Also,at this time Im also taking creatin,glutamine,vitamins,etc...
I work out 5 days a week... 2 on,1off,2on,1 off,2on,etc... Im an "EXTREMELY" hard gainer... Im 26,about 5 years ago,21 or so, I was probably 130 soaking wet...
My question to everyone who thinks that 145 is too small for steroids is,wheres the link or post that says 145 is too small for steroids...If its a legitimate post,Ill take it into consideration...Also,because someone is a newbie to Steroids does NOT mean their a newbie to lifting and dieting...

[lanky]

showdown whats goin on man, before i start lemme say i understand where you're comming from about people attacking you when ya ask some questions and tell u ur not ready to take steroids because there are many people in this forum who believe they know everything there is to kno about training/diet/aas, the majority of the members do not post pictures and for all we know could be fattie midnight cookie eaters

that being said, there are many informed and dedicated members of this forum who do know what they are talking about and if you do enough research u can bypass all the bullshit and read the good information they are trying to get out

in my opinion and it is just my opinion, take it or leave it, 145 is very very small, it is a scientific fact that if u eat enough calories u will gain weight! no if's, and's or but's about it! check out the unoficial how to bulk thread and do the calculations and find out just how many calories u need to take in to put on the weight

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=113010

take the next six months to endure the pain and annoyance of stuffing ur face untill u feel like you're going to puke (but don't) with the amount of calories that you need in order to gain and i promise u, u will gain the weight that u want, then after the six months, re-asses your situation and personal stats and maybe, just maybe at that point aas will be what you are looking for

good luck on your journey man

[kynetguy]

Im not sure whats so hard to believe about someone having a good diet?

7am: 3 Egg whites,toast,Protein shake(with milk)...
1030am: 1 can of tuna,2 eggs,yogurt
2pm: 2 chicken breasts,brown rice,fruit
430pm:Peanut butter sandwhich,cottage cheese
700pminner,can include many things,usually chicken,potatoes,veggies,etc
1030,or before bed, 2 eggs,oatmeal,protein shake and yogurt...
Also,anytime Im hungry between meals,Ill sneak in peanut butter,protein bar,eggs,etc...This is roughly what my diet consist of...Also,at this time Im also taking creatin,glutamine,vitamins,etc...
I work out 5 days a week... 2 on,1off,2on,1 off,2on,etc... Im an "EXTREMELY" hard gainer... Im 26,about 5 years ago,21 or so, I was probably 130 soaking wet...
My question to everyone who thinks that 145 is too small for steroids is,wheres the link or post that says 145 is too small for steroids...If its a legitimate post,Ill take it into consideration...Also,because someone is a newbie to Steroids does NOT mean their a newbie to lifting and dieting...

Diet looks pretty good.

Do you know about what your Macros are? Are you running at a maintenance level or deficit? if you are at about 5000+ calories I would think you would increase. But perhaps you are one of those people that just have an insane metabolism. I find that to be true of many skinny people.

As for steroids. If all is in check, I see no problems taking them responsibly. I don't know how much gains you would keep if all you say is true. Some people are just genetically unable to bulk up. While "on" you could certainly gain a few pounds. . .10 or so possibly, but I would doubt 15 would be seen from one cycle. That would be a 10% weight increase and thats quite a bit.

What kind of protien are you taking? I ask because CytoGainer, though kind of expensive, when taken with milk is about 900 calories and 54g of protien. I think I would be inclined to bump up the clean calories, ease up on any cardio you might be doing as it could be catabolic to your gains and try that for a month. If you don't see anything happening from there, them maybe a cycle is in order.

[lanky]

no flaming from me but i gotta disagree with you kynetguy,

i challenge ANY person (who does not already) to consume 5000calories every day and after a few months i GUARANTEE you will gain weight, and if not then up the calories!

[Showdown]

Thanks for both of your replys...Nice to have some,that can be used for discussion...
I take Nitro Tech along with Cell-Tech for my protein/creatine...
I am not at 5000+ calories...I am at about 3500+... Meaning no less than 3500,but I know Im not hitting 5g a day... I dont plan on starting the Test E cycle til february,so til then,I will up my calorie intake and see what I get over the next 3 weeks or so... I have to work my ass off to stay at 145,the time I got to 155,I was eating(no pun intended) sleeping and breathing my program...Also,I had a cush office job which gave me alot of rest time...Now I do landscaping,so between that and lifting,I have to keep food in me day in day out...Thinking about waking up in the middle of the nite and downing some eggs and protein shakes to see if that helps out... But I feel starting a Test E cycle will be a good way to help me step my game up... Trust me,Ive worked hard as hell just to get to 145,gonna need some help to get up where Id like(Which would be nice to be at 165 or so,anything more would be nice,but I wont mind 165....

[lanky]

ya man bump it up to the 5000cals a day and seriously count each and everyone of them and see where it gets you, im not sure how much gain you will see in three weeks but definatley give it a shot and if u do go ahead and run the cycle i would hope u would continue the high caloric intake throughout the duration of your cycle and pct to maximize all possible gains

[Showdown]

Yea I will definately keep the diet up the whole time...No point in adding juice if Im not doing everything right! (And yeah,I dont expect to see a big gain in 3weeks with a higher calorie diet,but I will be bumping it up...) I count everything...i have an OCD problem with it...I have everything in my house food wise,typed out in Microsoft spreadsheet,with the grams of everything,and then put it into a calender so I can see what my diet looked like at the end of the day...Im definately not lazy when it comes to this...Wouldnt go to Test,if I hadnt done everything else...Thanks again for your input,was more valuable than everyone elses non-informative remarks...

[goalseeker]

I ran Var last summer and loved it.. worked very well.. Didnt run Winny cuz of the hairloss I heard so much about.... On the cycle after that one, I ran Masteron, which was also really great, but made me thin out up top... I wanna try it again, but have to chose between that and my hair so we'll see...

[kynetguy]

no flaming from me but i gotta disagree with you kynetguy,

i challenge ANY person (who does not already) to consume 5000calories every day and after a few months i GUARANTEE you will gain weight, and if not then up the calories!

I agree. I was "feeling" him out for a response. To see if I would get a response. . .which he didn't.

[kynetguy]

Yea I will definately keep the diet up the whole time...No point in adding juice if Im not doing everything right! (And yeah,I dont expect to see a big gain in 3weeks with a higher calorie diet,but I will be bumping it up...) I count everything...i have an OCD problem with it...I have everything in my house food wise,typed out in Microsoft spreadsheet,with the grams of everything,and then put it into a calender so I can see what my diet looked like at the end of the day...Im definately not lazy when it comes to this...Wouldnt go to Test,if I hadnt done everything else...Thanks again for your input,was more valuable than everyone elses non-informative remarks...

Bump Your cals up to 4500-5000 a day and get your protien to 1-1.5grams/lb a day. You will gain. As Lanky said, you cannot possibly eat 5K a day and NOT put on weight.

With your job, you are burning calories beyond what most people will at their jobs.

As far as waking up in the middle of the night, that might add some benefit. But since you have a physical job, I would be more inclined to tell you to sleep and get quality sleep. Waking up in the middle of the night will just interfere with that.

But some good solid protein like chicken, steak before bed will help too as it is slower digesting. Maybe wash it down with a shake. I personally like to take my vitamins, glutamine and a shake before bed. I just feel that with 8 hours of it in my body before peeing, that it is better used. Because your body does most of its recovery sleeping. Of course this is my thoughts and could be totally wrong.

What kind of Test are you going to be taking and how are you planning on running it?

[Jason865]

Wow,guess I have alot to respond to...
1st... Diet/Excercise... Done both... Everyone thinks cause Im at 145,that Ive been there all my life... Before I started lifting regularly I was at 130 or so... With Good diet and lifting Ive gotten to 145... I CANNOT(And Ive tried)get above 155... So the comment about me getting to 170 naturally,lol,aint happening....


.

Well #1 you have only been lifting 2 years so you are not ready for steroid use yet, and at 145lbs at 5'8'' it shows. You need to put in more time and learn about eating and training. It takes more than a short year or two to learn how your body responds to training and diet.

[goalseeker]

Well #1 you have only been lifting 2 years so you are not ready for steroid use yet, and at 145lbs at 5'8'' it shows. You need to put in more time and learn about eating and training. It takes more than a short year or two to learn how your body responds to training and diet.

yes. well put bro....

[Showdown]

Well,problem is,alot of people are telling me I need to gain alot more weight before I start...So I started at 130,Im at 145...15# naturally,so obviously my body IS responding to my diet and training... Ive been told to get to as high as 170-190... thats 40-60# completely naturally...Unless Im mistaking,if it was that easy to add 40-60# naturally,no one on this forum would be using steroids... Yes,Im sure some on this board can/has put on 60# naturally,but I can assure you guys,155,is the absolute highest I can get naturally,as I have tried...Also,dont remember posting that Ive only been lifitng for 2 years...I said a few years ago I got as big as 155,meaning,I wouldve had to worked out years before that to get there...

[kynetguy]

Well #1 you have only been lifting 2 years so you are not ready for steroid use yet, and at 145lbs at 5'8'' it shows. You need to put in more time and learn about eating and training. It takes more than a short year or two to learn how your body responds to training and diet.

Not flaming, but I don't know anyone who started at 130 that added more than 25 LEAN lbs with diet alone.

Small framed people with high metabolisms just are hard gainers by nature and are genetically dispositioned to be small. While gear will help over come this, I cannot recall a 130 person that broke 200 and maintained it for any respectable amount of time, even WITH gear.